Yawn. Guns again........

[Awryly]

Dunno why you people continue to get upset about getting gunned down.

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1355277907/675/8070675.jpg

What do you expect when you continue to arm yourself to the teeth in the event, as one nitwit I recently saw on CNN put it, "to protect us from a tyranny of the government".

Are you planning to re-enact the American civil war?

A few tens of thousands dead each year is a small price to pay for such "freedom".

[GrassrootsConservative]

Are you really this angry that you lack the infrastructure to host The Olympic Games?

[Captain Obvious]

*yawn* - Awryly again.

[roadmaster]

Dunno why you people continue to get upset about getting gunned down.

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1355277907/675/8070675.jpg

What do you expect when you continue to arm yourself to the teeth in the event, as one nitwit I recently saw on CNN put it, "to protect us from a tyranny of the government".

Are you planning to re-enact the American civil war?

A few tens of thousands dead each year is a small price to pay for such "freedom".
What you are saying is childish. I remember Canada having strict guns laws only to have crime with guns go up. Now without strict gun laws crime is down but the choice of weapon is a knife now. You seems to be afraid of your shadow.

[GrassrootsConservative]

What you are saying is childish. I remember Canada having strict guns laws only to have crime with guns go up. Now without strict gun laws crime is down but the choice of weapon is a knife now. You seems to be afraid of your shadow.

Orcs be lurking in his shadow.

[Awryly]

*yawn* - Awryly again.

Coming to you from a country where people don't shoot one another for no particular reason. :icon_albino::icon_albino::icon_albino:

[roadmaster]

At least we are not afraid to die.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Coming to you from a country where people don't shoot one another for no particular reason. :icon_albino::icon_albino::icon_albino:

Too busy milking goats and defending Mordor from Orc invasions.

We Americans know more about New Zealand than you New Zealanders know about anything.

[Awryly]

At least we are not afraid to die.

So it seems.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg/325px-Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg.png


There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-WISQARS-4) The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-5) with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-6) In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_on_Drugs_and_Crime), 60% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-7)

Many of you seem to relish it.

[Awryly]

Too busy milking goats and defending Mordor from Orc invasions.

We Americans know more about New Zealand than you New Zealanders know about anything.

This announcement comes to you from.................





Mr Bean.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=478&dateline=1355070922

[GrassrootsConservative]

This announcement comes to you from.................

Mr Bean.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=478&dateline=1355070922


Yes, quite.

[Awryly]

Hands up all those who have gone to a theatre without a machine gun.

[roadmaster]

Hands up all those who have gone to a theatre without a machine gun.

I have never carried a gun to a theatre. Why would I be afraid? You may need to stay in your own country.:laugh:

[Awryly]

I have never carried a gun to a theatre. Why would I be afraid? You may need to stay in your own country.:laugh:

Perhaps you should. I am reliably informed there are aspiring actors out there who like to spray unappreciative audiences with bullets.

[Chris]

So it seems.





Many of you seem to relish it.

Wow, you actually cited some data!!!

Just that it doesn't support your opinions.

I mean, what does it means that more homicides are by guns than knives? Nothing. Because the relationship between guns and knifes means little.

Here's some more significant data, a comparison of the effects of having more guns than less on crime rate: D.C.: More Legal Guns, Far Fewer Murders, Despite Post-heller Fearmongering (http://www.bastiatinstitute.org/2012/12/11/d-c-more-legal-guns-far-fewer-murders-despite-post-heller-fearmongering/):


"More handguns in the District of Columbia will only lead to more handgun violence," D.C's then-Mayor Adrian Fenty said after the Supreme Court's 2008 ruling in the Heller case, a ruling that overthrew the district's handgun ban.

A few years later:


The District is poised to finish the year with fewer than 100 murders for the first time since 1963, and neighboring Prince George's County likely will post its lowest homicide total in 25 years.

The "murder capital" of the United States two decades ago, the District has had 79 murders so far this year, according to police records. The annual number has been declining steadily since 2008...

Correlation is not causation, past guarantees are no promise of future performance, and less than a couple of thousand D.C. residents appear to have tried to get their post-Heller legal weapons.

Still, fears that better legal access to guns would lead to more gun violence were dead wrong in D.C., and Virginia as well....

[Awryly]

Wow, you actually cited some data!!!

Just that it doesn't support your opinions.

I mean, what does it means that more homicides are by guns than knives? Nothing. Because the relationship between guns and knifes means little.

Here's some more significant data, a comparison of the effects of having more guns than less on crime rate: D.C.: More Legal Guns, Far Fewer Murders, Despite Post-heller Fearmongering (http://www.bastiatinstitute.org/2012/12/11/d-c-more-legal-guns-far-fewer-murders-despite-post-heller-fearmongering/):


I suspect "dead wrong" is the operative term.

But, hey, there are 310 million of you.

A few semantics here and there will make little difference.

[Chris]

I suspect "dead wrong" is the operative term.

But, hey, there are 310 million of you.

A few semantics here and there will make little difference.

I suspect you really don't have a meaningful opinion, the thread was just another gotcha troll. How's that working for you?

[Awryly]

I suspect you really don't have a meaningful opinion, the thread was just another gotcha troll. How's that working for you?

It raises the serious issue of gun violence in the United States.

:smiley:

Well, not to me, you understand. :gay::gay::gay::gay:

[Chris]

It raises the serious issue of gun violence in the United States.

:smiley:

No it doesn't.

[Cigar]

It raises the serious issue of gun violence in the United States.

:smiley:

Please try to take it easy on Conservative / Republicans; they are having a difficult time these days and need to reflect and find themselves. I'm guessing it's going to be a several year search for the truth, but remember, America always finds its way sooner, but usually later. But the Republicans will learn the hard way. :)

[Awryly]

Please try to take it easy on Conservative / Republicans; they are having a difficult time these days and need to reflect and find themselves. I'm guessing it's going to be a several year search for the truth, but remember, America always finds its way sooner, but usually later. But the Republicans will learn the hard way. :)


How many deaths can we expect along the way? As many as to make the news?

[Awryly]

At last, an international index on which you succeed.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
4.2
12,996
Americas
Northern



That's 4.2 homicides per 100k pop.

Compared with this:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg/22px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)
0.9
39
Oceania
Austra



But take heart. The Somalis are trying to catch up.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Flag_of_Somalia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Somalia.svg.png Somalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia)
1.5
138+ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War)
Africa
Ea

[Chris]

Please try to take it easy on Conservative / Republicans; they are having a difficult time these days and need to reflect and find themselves. I'm guessing it's going to be a several year search for the truth, but remember, America always finds its way sooner, but usually later. But the Republicans will learn the hard way. :)

IOW, you've got nothing to contribute, so you go back to trolling.

[Chris]

At last, an international index on which you succeed.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
4.2
12,996
Americas
Northern



That's 4.2 homicides per 100k pop.

Compared with this:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg/22px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)
0.9
39
Oceania
Austra



But take heart. The Somalis are trying to catch up.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Flag_of_Somalia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Somalia.svg.png Somalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia)
1.5
138+ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War)
Africa
Ea



The topic is guns. Nice diversion though.

[Peter1469]

Too busy milking goats and defending Mordor from Orc invasions.

We Americans know more about New Zealand than you New Zealanders know about anything.

Mordor is cool with Orcs. Get it right.

[Peter1469]

Please try to take it easy on Conservative / Republicans; they are having a difficult time these days and need to reflect and find themselves. I'm guessing it's going to be a several year search for the truth, but remember, America always finds its way sooner, but usually later. But the Republicans will learn the hard way. :)


Churchill said that Americans always do the right thing, after they try all of the wrong things.... :wink:

[Awryly]

IOW, you've got nothing to contribute, so you go back to trolling.

Ah, the "troll" gambit again. Careful, you are so beloved of this gambit that one suspects you are yourself nothing but a troll.

Facts are you shoot one another at many times the rate other advanced countries do.

But, what the hell, it's just good fun, isn't it? Since the British show no signs of invading you again, and the federal government has not declared war on you, you gotta use all that ammo somehow.

[GrumpyDog]

Ah, the "troll" gambit again. Careful, you are so beloved of this gambit that one suspects you are yourself nothing but a troll.

Facts are you shoot one another at many times the rate other advanced countries do.

But, what the hell, it's just good fun, isn't it? Since the British show no signs of invading you again, and the federal government has not declared war on you, you gotta use all that ammo somehow.


Yes, we take pride in the invention of the Gatling gun, which worked wonders killing both Americans and Natives alike, using just one person,instead of the normal regiment of single loading muskets.

Now perfected as the M134D (M stands for Multiple and D for Death, while 134 is avg. no killed by single operator):

[Awryly]

Yes, we take pride in the invention of the Gatling gun, which worked wonders killing both Americans and Natives alike, using just one person,instead of the normal regiment of single loading muskets.

Now perfected as the M134D (M stands for Multiple and D for Death, while 134 is avg. no killed by single operator):

Looks a useful weapon for dealing with unappreciative theatre audiences.

[GrumpyDog]

Looks a useful weapon for dealing with unappreciative theatre audiences.

No, this weapon is mostly used in flying machines, to disrupt weddings and funerals, or cause there to be funerals immediately following the weddings, among the non Christian religious fanatics.

Christian fanatics in America, after blowing up a goverment building, or a healthcare facility, or after taking children hostage, or abusing children, are usually offered a trial by jury first, before then placing them on death row.

Catholic Priests, however, have special immunity from criminal prosecution, and will often be reassigned to some other remote location by the Pope, rather than having to waste valuable ammuntion, reserved for the fight against Muslims.

[Chris]

Ah, the "troll" gambit again. Careful, you are so beloved of this gambit that one suspects you are yourself nothing but a troll.

Facts are you shoot one another at many times the rate other advanced countries do.

But, what the hell, it's just good fun, isn't it? Since the British show no signs of invading you again, and the federal government has not declared war on you, you gotta use all that ammo somehow.

Ah, the Pee Wee Herman gambit, accused of something, echo it back.


Facts are you shoot one another at many times the rate other advanced countries do.

OK. So?

You're quite amazing. Most of the time you offer opinion without facts, other times you offer facts without opinion.


But...

And then you go back to inflammatory trolling.

[Awryly]

Ah, the Pee Wee Herman gambit, accused of something, echo it back.



OK. So?

You're quite amazing. Most of the time you offer opinion without facts, other times you offer facts without opinion.



And then you go back to inflammatory trolling.


You hear what your tiny brain needs to hear.

Fact is that Americans kill one another at multiple times the rate of people in other (and more) advanced countries.

How is that "trolling"?

[Chris]

You hear what your tiny brain needs to hear.

Fact is that Americans kill one another at multiple times the rate of people in other (and more) advanced countries.

How is that "trolling"?

Just another trolling attempt to change the topic.

[Awryly]

Just another trolling attempt to change the topic.

Right.

And the topic was?

"Yawn. Guns again......"

[Chris]

Right.

And the topic was?

"Yawn. Guns again......"

Yes, it was, till you started distracting away from getting debunked.

[Awryly]

Yes, it was, till you started distracting away from getting debunked.

I have carefully considered the test results and your sundry utterances.

There is no remedy yet known to science for what ails you.

[Chris]

I have carefully considered the test results and your sundry utterances.

There is no remedy yet known to science for what ails you.

What are you talking about?

[Awryly]

What are you talking about?

I thought it was fairly plain.

Your test results and sundry utterances.

[Chris]

I thought it was fairly plain.

Your test results and sundry utterances.

What tests?

[Awryly]

What tests?

This test:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=128&dateline=1341530664

Which shows you are some sort of bovine that is deceased.

[Chris]

Changing the topic again?

[Awryly]

Changing the topic again?

The topic was why you shoot one another at the drop of a sombrero.

You forget again?

[Chris]

Right.

And the topic was?

"Yawn. Guns again......"

Now you've contradicted yourself.

[Awryly]

Now you've contradicted yourself.


If I were you, I would apply a high velocity, rapid fire something to my head.

But I guess you are too entrenched in silly beliefs to consider that they deserve nothing less.

[hanger4]

This test:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/image.php?u=128&dateline=1341530664

Which shows you are some sort of bovine that is deceased.

Then by your reasoning your pic shows you to be nothing more than a long haired mutt in need of a bath.

BTW lest you forget "your" topic is

Yawn. Guns again........

[Awryly]

Then by your reasoning your pic shows you to be nothing more than a long haired mutt in need of a bath.

BTW lest you forget "your" topic is

Yawn. Guns again........

I would not bother to bath your avatar, if I were you.

It would not improve. Merry Christmas.:icon_santa:

[Chris]

If I were you, I would apply a high velocity, rapid fire something to my head.

But I guess you are too entrenched in silly beliefs to consider that they deserve nothing less.

Are you suicidal? Get some help, man.

[Awryly]

Are you suicidal? Get some help, man.

In your (American) dreams. :dark1:

[hanger4]

I would not bother to bath your avatar, if I were you.

It would not improve.

True dat, if it ain't broke no need a fixin'


Merry Christmas.:icon_santa:

And Merry Christmas to you to kiwi.

Do you celebrate the birth of Christ or do you do what you're told to do by the secular retailers ??

[hanger4]

Double post

Sorry

Werd

[Chris]

In your (American) dreams. :dark1:

Poor awryly. :killme:

[Awryly]

Let's try again. Why do you pop one another at a rate only Somalians admire?

[Awryly]

True dat, if it ain't broke no need a fixin'



And Merry Christmas to you to kiwi.

Do you celebrate the birth of Christ or do you do what you're told to do by the secular retailers ??

Happy Holidays. :smiley: Or Hanukkah. Or whatever.

[hanger4]

Happy Holidays. :smiley: Or Hanukkah. Or whatever.

That's no answer, just a dodge.

What do you fear ??

[Awryly]

That's no answer, just a dodge.

What do you fear ??

I would fear having to live in a country that allows/does nothing to prevent this:


A gunman has killed 26 people, including 20 young children, at a US school where his mother (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10854215#) worked in one of the worst school shootings in the country's history.

[Chris]

I would fear having to live in a country that allows/does nothing to prevent this:

Where do you come up with the nonsense it allowed? Oh, yea, you're a troll.

[Awryly]

Where do you come up with the nonsense it allowed? Oh, yea, you're a troll.

So it's not a fact that some loon you allowed to have a gun did not pop 26 people at a school?

[Chris]

So it's not a fact that some loon you allowed to have a gun did not pop 26 people at a school?

It is a fact that you're a sick and demented person to take such a tragedy and use it to troll.

[GrassrootsConservative]

So it's not a fact that some loon you allowed to have a gun did not pop 26 people at a school?

"Pop"? Where's your humanity? Have you no class?
This is a terrible tragedy.

[Awryly]

It is a fact that you're a sick and demented person to take such a tragedy and use it to troll.

Try to concentrate, noddy. The thread is about guns. And about how you kill one another with them. And why you do nothing to regulate their use because politicians are too scared of the NRA.

Another 26 people have been killed to add to your annual massacre of 12,000 a year.

What's wrong with presenting evidence in support of an argument?

[Chris]

Try to concentrate, noddy. The thread is about guns. And about how you kill one another with them. And why you do nothing to regulate their use because politicians are too scared of the NRA.

Another 26 people have been killed to add to your annual massacre of 12,000 a year.

What's wrong with presenting evidence in support of an argument?

Good night, awryly, good luck trolling others.

[Awryly]

Good night, awryly, good luck trolling others.


You and your mates are really woeful.

You perpetually label me a troll and then, when faced with facts, trot off to bed.

[hanger4]

Try to concentrate, noddy. The thread is about guns. And about how you kill one another with them. And why you do nothing to regulate their use because politicians are too scared of the NRA.

Another 26 people have been killed to add to your annual massacre of 12,000 a year.

What's wrong with presenting evidence in support of an argument?

There use and possession is regulated, kid.

[Awryly]

There use and possession is regulated, kid.

So another 26 dead convinces you your "regulation" is working, eh?

[hanger4]

So another 26 dead convinces you your "regulation" is working, eh?

So you think regulation is going to stop a mad man ??

[GrumpyDog]

Don't go to sleep just yet. Merry Christmas and bang banga bang bang.. bang bang.. bang bang. From USA, land of the Serial Killers. (mostly Caucasians, and most of them, are in the conservative camp, not liberal).

And USA takes pride in exceptionalism once again, by being no.1 in statistics for serial killings.

[Awryly]

So you think regulation is going to stop a mad man ??

If you let madmen have guns, no. Duh.

[GrumpyDog]

If you let madmen have guns, no. Duh.


No, we are going to arm each of the children with their own high capacity hand gun.

[Awryly]

Don't go to sleep just yet. Merry Christmas and bang banga bang bang.. bang bang.. bang bang. From USA, land of the Serial Killers. (mostly Caucasians, and most of them, are in the conservative camp, not liberal).

And USA takes pride in exceptionalism once again, by being no.1 in statistics for serial killings.


Merry Christmas. Stay away from schools and theatres. :yo::yo::yo:

Congress is optional. Though, personally, dead congressmen seems like a good idea.

[Awryly]

No, we are going to arm each of the children with their own high capacity hand gun.


Excellent thinking. They can help repel federal intrusion (if such can be managed) into the business of regulating schools so that they are not free to shoot one another.

2nd amendment an' all dat.

[hanger4]

If you let madmen have guns, no. Duh.

You knew he was a madman before this happened ??

Why didn't you stop him ??

[Awryly]

You knew he was a madman before this happened ??

Why didn't you stop him ??

A small matter of being a merciful 12,000 miles away.

I suppose I could ask North Korea for a long-range gun. Assuming, that is, that the North Koreans give squat about how many Americans shoot one another.

[hanger4]

A small matter of being a merciful 12,000 miles away.

I suppose I could ask North Korea for a long-range gun. Assuming, that is, that the North Koreans give squat about how many Americans shoot one another.

So you didn't know he was a madman before.

[Awryly]

So you didn't know he was a madman before.


No. But I am beginning to know you are a madman.

Do you have a gun?

[Awryly]

No. But I am beginning to know you are a madman.

Do you have a gun?


Shucks. Does he have a gun? All Yanks have guns. Mea culpa.

I meant do you have an AK47?

[hanger4]

No. But I am beginning to know you are a madman.

Hey you wanna say stupid things I can say stupid things.

You wanna carry on a serious conversation we can carry on a serious conversation.

You wanna spin little leftist circles then I'll spin little conservative circles.

Your choice ??


Do you have a gun?

I'm southern born and raised and reside in the southern Appalachian Mountains,

What do you think ??

[hanger4]

Shucks. Does he have a gun? All Yanks have guns. Mea culpa.

I meant do you have an AK47?

You so wrong on so many levels.

[Awryly]

What do you think ??

What I think is that don't have a clue what a "serious" conversation would look like.

Try not to get caught in the crossfire.

I think.

PS: you are just one of a myriad of neocon clowns that infest this forum. Try to stand out. Though I know how hard that can be.

[hanger4]

What I think is that don't have a clue what a "serious" conversation would look like.

Try not to get caught in the crossfire.

I think.

PS: you are just one of a myriad of neocon clowns that infest this forum. Try to stand out. Though I know how hard that can be.

OK your choice.

If all you want to do is play juvenile gotga games then you'll have to play by yourself tonight, you boor me.

[Awryly]

OK your choice.

If all you want to do is play juvenile gotga games then you'll have to play by yourself tonight, you boor me.

I am sure you are "boored".

It is your natural state.

Try not to get shot. Though what would be missed beats me.

[GrumpyDog]

Excellent thinking. They can help repel federal intrusion (if such can be managed) into the business of regulating schools so that they are not free to shoot one another.

2nd amendment an' all dat.

Made mistake about Serial Killers applied to this Mass Xmas shooting spree. But USA has highest Mass murder rate also, so .. either way.. same psychology.

Take this as just one more example, where NZ is far behind USA as well as the entire rest of world in achievement. You should at least attempt to set a goal of having at least one mass murder a year. Start with sheep if necessary and go from there.

Before you know it, (and with a little help from conservative psychology) you too, will soon have teenagers, shooting children, not with just mere shotguns, but with full complement of 2 semi auto handguns, 1 semi auto assault rifle, lots of ammo, all courtesy of family members who bought the weapons for Joey to play with.

[Awryly]

Made mistake about Serial Killers applied to this Mass Xmas shooting spree. But USA has highest Mass murder rate also, so .. either way.. same psychology.

Take this as just one more example, where NZ is far behind USA as well as the entire rest of world in achievement. You should at least attempt to set a goal of having at least one mass murder a year. Start with sheep if necessary and go from there.

Before you know it, (and with a little help from conservative psychology) you too, will soon have teenagers, shooting children, not with just mere shotguns, but with full complement of 2 semi auto handguns, 1 semi auto assault rifle, lots of ammo, all courtesy of family members who bought the weapons for Joey to play with.


Your confreres are now tucked up for the night.

Even when they are not, they have not the faintest idea what you might be talking about.

[GrumpyDog]

Your confreres are now tucked up for the night.

Even when they are not, they have not the faintest idea what you might be talking about.

Mass murdering as practiced in USA, falls under the category of "exceptionalism" by most standards recognized around the world.

Whatever we are supposed to do, we Americans are supposed to be exceptional. We are expected to achieve beyond what is the average. Whether it be to develop the most destructive bomb ever known, or the most potent Bird Flu virus possible, or the most poor people to highest GDP ratio, WE cannot just be average.

NO SIR! So no simple 2 Barrel Shot gun, is going to be adequate, when it comes to exercising your 2nd amendment rights. To be a patriot, means FULLY exercising your 10 fundamental rights. Therefore, before taking out your Gatling gun in the theater, you should also shout "FIRE" or F U BASTARDS first, thus exercising your 1st amendment right also.

[shaarona]

What you are saying is childish. I remember Canada having strict guns laws only to have crime with guns go up. Now without strict gun laws crime is down but the choice of weapon is a knife now. You seems to be afraid of your shadow.

I think I saw a number of 9,000 gun related deaths in the US last year. How do we compare with countries that have stricter gun laws?

It would have been pretty difficult for Lanza to kill 18 kids and 6 adults with a knife.

[hanger4]

I am sure you are "boored".

It is your natural state.

Try not to get shot. Though what would be missed beats me.

Via your words, you're not here (this forum) to carry on any discussion/conversation, all you're interested in is gotga posts.

You, Awryly, are an admitted troll.


Troll (Internet)

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


Fits you to a T, little one.

[Chris]

What I think is that don't have a clue what a "serious" conversation would look like.

Try not to get caught in the crossfire.

I think.

PS: you are just one of a myriad of neocon clowns that infest this forum. Try to stand out. Though I know how hard that can be.

This is simply false. Hanger time and again engages is discussions, he actually contributes. You on the other hand, awryly, are known to have participated in exactly one serious discussion your whole time here. You're a troll. That's evidence in your every post, this one your inflammatory charge hanger's a neocon which meaning I doubt you have any clue other than it's useful for trolling.

[Chris]

Made mistake about Serial Killers applied to this Mass Xmas shooting spree. But USA has highest Mass murder rate also, so .. either way.. same psychology.

Take this as just one more example, where NZ is far behind USA as well as the entire rest of world in achievement. You should at least attempt to set a goal of having at least one mass murder a year. Start with sheep if necessary and go from there.

Before you know it, (and with a little help from conservative psychology) you too, will soon have teenagers, shooting children, not with just mere shotguns, but with full complement of 2 semi auto handguns, 1 semi auto assault rifle, lots of ammo, all courtesy of family members who bought the weapons for Joey to play with.


Your confreres are now tucked up for the night.

Even when they are not, they have not the faintest idea what you might be talking about.

I doubt grumpy has any idea what he's talking about.

[Chris]

I think I saw a number of 9,000 gun related deaths in the US last year. How do we compare with countries that have stricter gun laws?

It would have been pretty difficult for Lanza to kill 18 kids and 6 adults with a knife.

Sharoona, you're arguing from unknowns again.

[Awryly]

Sharoona, you're arguing from unknowns again.


The knowns are:

The US kills more of its own with guns than any other advanced country and many primitive ones.
There is absolutely no reason why gun rights should include the right to handguns and automatic military weapons.
There is absolutely no reason why people should be allowed to carry concealed weapons; or for that matter carry guns at all in public places, other than for recognised purposes such as hunting or policing.
There is absolutely no reason you cannot have universal controls over gun acquisition, ownership and use.
You should train your police better. All of the nine bystanders shot in the crossfire at the Empire State Building were shot by police.
But then there is a reason, isn't there? It's called the NRA. And it has made the US the sickest society in the West.

Which is fine, unless you want to live there.

[Chris]

The knowns are:

The US kills more of its own with guns than any other advanced country and many primitive ones.
There is absolutely no reason why gun rights should include the right to handguns and automatic military weapons.
There is absolutely no reason why people should be allowed to carry concealed weapons; or for that matter carry guns at all in public places, other than for recognised purposes such as hunting.
There is absolutely no reason you cannot have universal controls over gun acquisition, ownership and use.
You should train your police better. All of those shot in the crossfire at the Empire State Building were shot by police.
But then there is a reason, isn't there? It's called the NRA. And it has made the US the sickest society in the West.

Which is fine, unless you want to live there.


I think I saw a number of 9,000 gun related deaths in the US last year. How do we compare with countries that have stricter gun laws?

Here's the unknown he's arguing. He even admits he doesn't know.

And you, awryly, provided no knowledge of that.

In fact, besides the one fact you keep repeating, you offer only your opinion unsupported by any facts.

You do manage to add an inflammatory trolling remark. So once again, we're done here, no interest in talking to a troll, good night, awryly.

[Awryly]

Here's the unknown he's arguing. He even admits he doesn't know.

And you, awryly, provided no knowledge of that.

In fact, besides the one fact you keep repeating, you offer only your opinion unsupported by any facts.

You do manage to add an inflammatory trolling remark. So once again, we're done here, no interest in talking to a troll, good night, awryly.


Poor guy. Constantly in flames. What does he drink, I wonder?

[Awryly]

Poor guy. Constantly in flames. What does he drink, I wonder?


But consider this: the Japanese have two, yes 2, gun deaths per year. In a population half of the size of the US.

And here's why:


Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend (http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andrew-Rankin/3688) to forgo (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/09/120109fa_fact_hessler) guns; the few exceptions (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20060822a7.html#.UA19bkR9nRw) tend to become big national news stories.

The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it's not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel's landmark study (http://www.guncite.com/journals/dkjgc.html) on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/#) of the National Rifle Association and once wrote (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/207002/hitlers-control/kopel-griffiths) in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

[Awryly]

Mass murdering as practiced in USA, falls under the category of "exceptionalism" by most standards recognized around the world.

Whatever we are supposed to do, we Americans are supposed to be exceptional. We are expected to achieve beyond what is the average. Whether it be to develop the most destructive bomb ever known, or the most potent Bird Flu virus possible, or the most poor people to highest GDP ratio, WE cannot just be average.

NO SIR! So no simple 2 Barrel Shot gun, is going to be adequate, when it comes to exercising your 2nd amendment rights. To be a patriot, means FULLY exercising your 10 fundamental rights. Therefore, before taking out your Gatling gun in the theater, you should also shout "FIRE" or F U BASTARDS first, thus exercising your 1st amendment right also.

Consider that Americans manage to kill one another in "peace-time" at an annual rate not too dissimilar to the rate at which Syrians engaged in a civil war manage to do so. Without even having to use tanks and attack aircraft.

Then you get a sense of perspective.

[Awryly]

I wonder why I attract so many trolls.

I guess it'll be those nasty facts.

[hanger4]

Consider that Americans manage to kill one another in "peace-time" at an annual rate not too dissimilar to the rate at which Syrians engaged in a civil war manage to do so. Without even having to use tanks and attack aircraft.

Then you get a sense of perspective.

Link ??

[Awryly]

Link ??


Missing. But I know you'll understand why.

[hanger4]

Missing. But I know you'll understand why.

Absolutely !!

You just made it up cause it fits your agenda.

Not terribly surprising.

[Awryly]

Absolutely !!

You just made it up cause it fits your agenda.

Not terribly surprising.


Mmmm. So you don't kill one another at the rate Syrians in a civil war do?

[hanger4]

Mmmm. So you don't kill one another at the rate Syrians in a civil war do?

You made that statement as fact, kiwi, back it up !!

[Awryly]

You made that statement as fact, kiwi, back it up !!


So do you kill one another more or less that Syrians are currently doing?

Simple question. For a simple mind.

[Mister D]

Oh oh...looks like Awryly said something stupid again. It's a nightly occurrence. I enjoy watching you squirm. :grin:

[Awryly]

Oh oh...looks like Awryly said something stupid again. It's a nightly occurrence. I enjoy watching you squirm. :grin:


And your argument is what?

Must have missed it.

[Mister D]

And your argument is what?

Must have missed it.

Can't back up your claim, huh? Why not do what you usually do? You know, cite a few sources that prove you wrong. :laugh:

[hanger4]

So do you kill one another more or less that Syrians are currently doing?

Simple question. For a simple mind.

YOU made the statement kiwi, the more you try to deflect and or distract you more foolish you look.

Seeing as how it's such a simple question then it should be a simple link !!

Prove yourself kiwi, or stand accused and convicted of lying to suit your agenda.

[Chris]

Poor guy. Constantly in flames. What does he drink, I wonder?

Ah, so the troll echos like a troll and then makes up a personal attack. You're really a sad little troll.

[Peter1469]

Awryly seems to be lots of opinion and little fact. That is why we see no links.

[zelmo1234]

Coming to you from a country where people don't shoot one another for no particular reason. :icon_albino::icon_albino::icon_albino:

And what country would that be? I am in the security business, that's right the worst possible job in the eyes of a liberal. people pay to be taken into places that are dangerous, and get out alive. There is no country that is safe from violence, and surprise, the police are not able to help, just like in the connecticut, they were not able to respond in time to save those children. demented people will find a way to kill, the knife in China, 9/11, Oklahoma City. And they all will attack where they know that they will not have an opposing force.

These loons are not looking for a fair fight, they are looking to become history.

[zelmo1234]

It raises the serious issue of gun violence in the United States.

:smiley:

Well, not to me, you understand. :gay::gay::gay::gay:

Do you find it interesting that the highest percentage of gun violence comes from places with the most strict gun laws, and the lowest rates are from the areas that have the least restrictive gun laws? Or does that make little difference?

You see a gun has never once in the history of the world killed anyone, it is the tool that criminals and madmen use. Hundreds of people were killed in Oklahoma with a fertilizer bomb. The fact that he could not get a gun did not stop him?

Yes it is a easy tool to use, to comit crimes, but for thise that have made the choice to kill themselvess, do you think that they would say I can't because I don't have a gun. Or those that have chosen to kill someone would decide not to because they can't find a gun? It is the person that is responsible for the crime, not the tool.

[zelmo1234]

IOW, you've got nothing to contribute, so you go back to trolling.

:et them have there day in the sun, they have economic policies that are coming that are going to be a disaster for the poor and middle class.

They have a voter base that is about to see what happens when you run out of other people money.

Obamacare will cause hundreds of thousands to loose there jobs, and million are about to loose there employer based healthcare and also find out that there are not very many doc's that are planing on taking the government base health insurance.

They are about to have to level with the american people and already 18 Dem Senators have seen the writing on the wall and are asking Obama to delay many of the taxes and regulations in the Affordable Care Act, even Stabenow in MI wants out of it, now that Dow, and Phizer have plans to move to Canada to actually stay in business.

They actuallly thought that business and the Investors out there would work for nothing? Surprise, business is not charity.

[zelmo1234]

Right.

And the topic was?

"Yawn. Guns again......"

So you are making the assumption that by taking away the guns that the gangs, are going to give up there weapons, and then you are assuming that the inner city gangs that already live in the most restrictive places when it comes to carring guns are going to decide not to comit crimes.

You assumptions are false.

What we have is a socials system that allows these young people moslty men to have nothing to do, thus they get into grugs and that sends them down the slippery slope to distruction.

[zelmo1234]

I would fear having to live in a country that allows/does nothing to prevent this:

And what should we do? The shooter lived in the second most restrictive gun state, and did the shooting in the 4th restrictive?

It did not happen in Texas where teachers are allowed to carry concealed in some school districts?

I wonder why?

Because mad men are cowards, and they will only attack where they are sure that they will not have opposition.

By the way in somilia you are only counted as being killed if you are a member of the ruling class, the mass murders that they comit, are not counted, as the people that kill have no more rights that a stray dog?

[zelmo1234]

The knowns are:

The US kills more of its own with guns than any other advanced country and many primitive ones.
There is absolutely no reason why gun rights should include the right to handguns and automatic military weapons.
There is absolutely no reason why people should be allowed to carry concealed weapons; or for that matter carry guns at all in public places, other than for recognised purposes such as hunting or policing.
There is absolutely no reason you cannot have universal controls over gun acquisition, ownership and use.
You should train your police better. All of the nine bystanders shot in the crossfire at the Empire State Building were shot by police.
But then there is a reason, isn't there? It's called the NRA. And it has made the US the sickest society in the West.

Which is fine, unless you want to live there.

I an courious as to why you care, but because you do not live here you do not know what the liberals in our government have done to help with the gun violence.

You see they sent over 2000 automatic weapons that were not legally purchased, the FBI which does a background check on each and every gun store purchase in the USA, told the gun shop owners to sell them, these guns made it to the Mexican Drug gangs and now are coming back to America.

When questioned about this Obama declaired executive privilage, so we could not get to the truth.

You talk about Americans not being able to own automatic weapons, and you will be glad to find out that they are not, it is illegal.

Now you show your lack of information, because if you want violent crime to go down, then you would want concealed carry, as those areas have a low rate, however if you are looking to become a victom of gun violence, then you would visit the cities with the most restrictive gun laws, then your chances would go up some 300%

Next lets just look at what some of the most liberal leaders have done to there population

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Kind of makes it look like we are amatures when it comes to gunning people down does it not?

You see our founding fathers understood that with out the right to defend ones self, we could under go the same fate, when you have leaders that seek unconditional power, like the one we have now, he is obsessed with power, and I can only imagine what he would do if not for the limits placed on him by our constitution,

[zelmo1234]

I wonder why I attract so many trolls.

I guess it'll be those nasty facts.

It will be interesting to see how you respond to the "facts" that our gun violence happens where law abiding people are not allowed to own handguns or carry concealed? It woudl seem that the criminals know where they are safe?

[hanger4]

It will be interesting to see how you respond to the "facts" that our gun violence happens where law abiding people are not allowed to own handguns or carry concealed? It woudl seem that the criminals know where they are safe?

That is something Awryly seldom if ever does. He's more interested in gotga responses.

Hell, when he makes a statement of fact he won't even link it or back it up in any way when asked.

He usually wanders around at tPF till the wee hours of the morning. Not today though.

He was asked to substantiate something about the murder rate in the US being the same rate of or higher then the death rate in the Syrian civil war.

He seems to have run away.

BTW, Welcome to tPF zelmo1234.

[zelmo1234]

Thanks Gald to be here, but his mind set is not that different that the Uneducated voter in the US. It all sounds great, you take money from the rich, and they have sooo! much money that they do not even care so they just accept the additional taxation and everyone else lives better.

Reality does not work that wey, as the United States does not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. We do not ahve a Gun problem, we have an Inforcment problem.

The problem is that hte solution that will work don't give everyone that warm and fuzzy feeling, so politicians on both sides of the spectrum will not do what is right for the country because they are concerned with maintaining there power.

[GrumpyDog]

Thanks Gald to be here, but his mind set is not that different that the Uneducated voter in the US. It all sounds great, you take money from the rich, and they have sooo! much money that they do not even care so they just accept the additional taxation and everyone else lives better.

Reality does not work that wey, as the United States does not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. We do not ahve a Gun problem, we have an Inforcment problem.

The problem is that hte solution that will work don't give everyone that warm and fuzzy feeling, so politicians on both sides of the spectrum will not do what is right for the country because they are concerned with maintaining there power.

So what is this solution you propose, that will not work?

[Chris]

So what is this solution you propose, that will not work?

Cut spending.

[Peter1469]

Cut spending.

Spend less money that you take in with revenue. Obama is ~$1.3T in the wrong. Habitually.

[GrumpyDog]

Cut spending.

From schools?

But, it seems obvious, that there needs to be more security guards in the schools, since guns, the gun industry, cannot be regulated any more than they already are.

Will private enterprise provide this security?

For public schools?

Doubt it.

I think this could be an opportunity, to hire veterans, who will be discharged from the Military pending cuts there also, to be hired as security guards in schools.

[Chris]

From schools?

But, it seems obvious, that there needs to be more security guards in the schools, since guns, the gun industry, cannot be regulated any more than they already are.

Will private enterprise provide this security?

For public schools?

Doubt it.

I think this could be an opportunity, to hire veterans, who will be discharged from the Military pending cuts there also, to be hired as security guards in schools.

Not a federal issue but a state issue, local issue.

Why do liberals always leap to central government solutions?

[hanger4]

From schools?

But, it seems obvious, that there needs to be more security guards in the schools, since guns, the gun industry, cannot be regulated any more than they already are.

Will private enterprise provide this security?

For public schools?

Doubt it.

I think this could be an opportunity, to hire veterans, who will be discharged from the Military pending cuts there also, to be hired as security guards in schools.

Don't know what's the big deal.

North Carolina has what's called Resource Officers (SRO's) in almost every school.

They are City police officers and/or Sheriff's Deputies.

Mostly payed for locally some thru state funding.

[zelmo1234]

From schools?

But, it seems obvious, that there needs to be more security guards in the schools, since guns, the gun industry, cannot be regulated any more than they already are.

Will private enterprise provide this security?

For public schools?

Doubt it.

I think this could be an opportunity, to hire veterans, who will be discharged from the Military pending cuts there also, to be hired as security guards in schools.

There is plenty of money in the schools, it is being sucked out by the Unions

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/they-spend-what-real-cost-public-schools

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/they-spend-what-real-cost-public-schools

If they were to worry about education with a low of 12K per student and a high of 27K per student they could hire a security gurad for every classroom, but that will never happen.

As you can see above, if we really wanted children to get a great education, we would abolish the public education system and send them all to private schools, and cut educations costs by 50% in most cases. plus ending the DOE but that is not what it is about is it?

If they were actually worried about the safty of the children they could allow those teachers and administrators that are willing to carry concealed and provide training for them a very in expensive way to end the problem.

If you were to announce that 20% of the nations teachers were armed and complete active shooter training, these mass murdering idiots would go find an unarmed place to comit there crimes. they are cowards plainc and simple they will never attack a gun club or police station.

Solutions are never, never what the progressive movement is about, never has been it is about usning compasion to take more control over people lives.

[zelmo1234]

So what is this solution you propose, that will not work?

I will post a new thread called possible solutions tonight when I get home, I hope that people will look at it constructively and make suggestions and improvements.

I have some ideas, and would love to hear the ideas of others. It should be fun

[zelmo1234]

Not a federal issue but a state issue, local issue.

Why do liberals always leap to central government solutions?

It is really not a good or bad thing, progressive have always looked to a central government, while conservatives look to local control or personal responsibility. the truth is that either way can work as long as the govenments look to help a situation. neither local or the federal goveenment is doing that at this point, they are trying to control the people instead, this is where our current problem lies.

[Awryly]

I an courious as to why you care, but because you do not live here you do not know what the liberals in our government have done to help with the gun violence.

You see they sent over 2000 automatic weapons that were not legally purchased, the FBI which does a background check on each and every gun store purchase in the USA, told the gun shop owners to sell them, these guns made it to the Mexican Drug gangs and now are coming back to America.

When questioned about this Obama declaired executive privilage, so we could not get to the truth.

You talk about Americans not being able to own automatic weapons, and you will be glad to find out that they are not, it is illegal.

Now you show your lack of information, because if you want violent crime to go down, then you would want concealed carry, as those areas have a low rate, however if you are looking to become a victom of gun violence, then you would visit the cities with the most restrictive gun laws, then your chances would go up some 300%

Next lets just look at what some of the most liberal leaders have done to there population

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Kind of makes it look like we are amatures when it comes to gunning people down does it not?

You see our founding fathers understood that with out the right to defend ones self, we could under go the same fate, when you have leaders that seek unconditional power, like the one we have now, he is obsessed with power, and I can only imagine what he would do if not for the limits placed on him by our constitution,


Well, I don't care. People get killed everywhere.

But I find it curious that they do it with such gay abandon as they do in the US. Where, unlike Syria, they are supposedly not fighting another civil war.

And where did I say Americans own automatic weapons? They're semi-automatics that fire almost as fast as automatic weapons. Assuming you don't have arthritis in your trigger finger.

[Chris]

Well, I don't care. People get killed everywhere.

But I find it curious that they do it with such gay abandon as they do in the US. Where, unlike Syria, they are supposedly not fighting another civil war.

And where did I say Americans own automatic weapons? They're semi-automatics that fire almost as far as automatic weapons. Assuming you don't have arthritis in your trigger finger.


Well, I don't care.

Then why post?


But I find it curious that they do it with such gay abandon as they do in the US.

Where do you get this curious idea anyone anywhere kills with gay abandon? As it stands it's nothing more than inflammatory. If you didn't intend it that way, answer the question.

[Chris]

It is really not a good or bad thing, progressive have always looked to a central government, while conservatives look to local control or personal responsibility. the truth is that either way can work as long as the govenments look to help a situation. neither local or the federal goveenment is doing that at this point, they are trying to control the people instead, this is where our current problem lies.

I'm having trouble imagining an example of a big government solution that works better than a free market one.

[Awryly]

Then why post?



Where do you get this curious idea anyone anywhere kills with gay abandon? As it stands it's nothing more than inflammatory. If you didn't intend it that way, answer the question.

Depends on how you interpret "gay abandon". 12,000 gun homicides a year seem pretty gay to me.

Then there's this:


In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_on_Drugs_and_Crime), 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-4) There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-WISQARS-5)

That's 100,000 gun incidents a year.

Tell me you think that's OK.

(And get off the "inflammatory" thing, just because you don't agree with me.)

[Chris]

Depends on how you interpret "gay abandon". 12,000 gun homicides a year seem pretty gay to me.

Then there's this:



That's 100,000 gun incidents a year.

Tell me you think that's OK.

(And get off the "inflammatory" thing, just because you don't agree with me.)

The question remains where do you see people killing with gay abandon? Where is the gaiety in it? The number of shootings doesn't demonstrate that.

Asking me if the number of shootings is OK, digresses from you explaining your opinion.

[Awryly]

The question remains where do you see people killing with gay abandon? Where is the gaiety in it? The number of shootings doesn't demonstrate that.

Asking me if the number of shootings is OK, digresses from you explaining your opinion.


So, if it is not in your opinion "gay abandon", or OK, or sent from God, what is it that gets 100,000 people shot each and every year?

[zelmo1234]

I'm having trouble imagining an example of a big government solution that works better than a free market one.

i feel the exact same way, but liberals can not see any solution that does not include the government, They think that we are crazy.

The biggest dirrerence is Liberals are not concerned with results, they want it to sound compasionate and they want people to think that the care. It helps them sleep at night. If it is a total faailure, that is OK as long as it was intended to be compasionate.

Conservatives could give a crap at how it shoulds as long as it helps people live better lives. We define a better life by freedom and the ability to look after yourself, Liberals define it as having a safty net that takes care of people.

[Awryly]

Of course, the latest massacre will be forgotten. They all are.

There will be another outpouring of sympathy yet again when the next one happens. Piers Morgan and Amanpour will get excited for a couple of weeks.

The gun lobby will bribe more congressmen to take no notice. Everything will return to normal. Except that gun sales will exponentially increase as they are doing in Connecticut.

A few massacres are good for business.

[Chris]

So, if it is not in your opinion "gay abandon", or OK, or sent from God, what is it that gets 100,000 people shot each and every year?

The problem is not guns. We can discuss that once you provide the missing logic that connects "100,000 people shot each and every year" to "gay abandon". Otherwise I have to assume it was merely an imaginwd an inflammatory conclusion. Or have you abandoned that unfounded flame?

[Chris]

i feel the exact same way, but liberals can not see any solution that does not include the government, They think that we are crazy.

The biggest dirrerence is Liberals are not concerned with results, they want it to sound compasionate and they want people to think that the care. It helps them sleep at night. If it is a total faailure, that is OK as long as it was intended to be compasionate.

Conservatives could give a crap at how it shoulds as long as it helps people live better lives. We define a better life by freedom and the ability to look after yourself, Liberals define it as having a safty net that takes care of people.

I think we are different types of conservatives, you apparently compassionate and me libertarian free market. You apparently think you can design and manage society, I do not. And the problem here is social.

[Chris]

Of course, the latest massacre will be forgotten. They all are.

There will be another outpouring of sympathy yet again when the next one happens. Piers Morgan and Amanpour will get excited for a couple of weeks.

The gun lobby will bribe more congressmen to take no notice. Everything will return to normal. Except that gun sales will exponentially increase as they are doing in Connecticut.

A few massacres are good for business.

It will be forgotten because people address symptoms instead of causes.

A gun lobbyist bribing a Congressman is as bad as an anti-gun lobbyist doing the same.

[Awryly]

i feel the exact same way, but liberals can not see any solution that does not include the government, They think that we are crazy.

The biggest dirrerence is Liberals are not concerned with results, they want it to sound compasionate and they want people to think that the care. It helps them sleep at night. If it is a total faailure, that is OK as long as it was intended to be compasionate.

Conservatives could give a crap at how it shoulds as long as it helps people live better lives. We define a better life by freedom and the ability to look after yourself, Liberals define it as having a safty net that takes care of people.


Yes, yes. That "ability to look after yourself" would include the GFC, the housing market collapse, a couple of lost wars, and 100,000 Americans shot by other Americans in their own country?

Not sure I'd want you to "look after" me.

[Awryly]

It will be forgotten because people address symptoms instead of causes.

A gun lobbyist bribing a Congressman is as bad as an anti-gun lobbyist doing the same.


According to something I heard on CNN, the Brady bunch are out-matched 4100 to one by the bribing resources of the NRA and gun lobby.

[GrumpyDog]

The gun enthusiasts say not to worry, because you are more likely to be struck by lighting, than to be killed by crazed gunman.

However, with storm, you have some options, even without having to be armed with lighting bolt yourself.


If there were someway to get crazed gunman to have such poor aim as lighting bolts from a storm do, and be just as random, then my anxiety would be lessened somewhat.

And a noise suppressor would be helpful, in reducing the intial terror and hysteria felt by the human targets that the crazed gunman has chosen.

So I propose new regulation for high capacity, rapid fire, semi auto rifles, that requires them to be sold with suppressors attached, and if operated by owner in any situations other than at the target practice range, that the suppressor cannot be removed.


This solution, although having no effect at all on reducing mass murders, will at least lessen the intial shock, awe, and terror, experienced by the victims of the crazed gunman, just prior to them being killed.

[Chris]

Yes, yes. That "ability to look after yourself" would include the GFC, the housing market collapse, a couple of lost wars, and 100,000 Americans shot by other Americans in their own country?

Not sure I'd want you to "look after" me.

Ah, there's the old awryly back already.

[Chris]

According to something I heard on CNN, the Brady bunch are out-matched 4100 to one by the bribing resources of the NRA and gun lobby.

Go get some facts. Make sure they're not cheery picked like what you report.

[Chris]

The gun enthusiasts say not to worry, because you are more likely to be struck by lighting, than to be killed by crazed gunman.

However, with storm, you have some options, even without having to be armed with lighting bolt yourself.


If there were someway to get crazed gunman to have such poor aim as lighting bolts from a storm do, and be just as random, then my anxiety would be lessened somewhat.

And a noise suppressor would be helpful, in reducing the intial terror and hysteria felt by the human targets that the crazed gunman has chosen.

So I propose new regulation for high capacity, rapid fire, semi auto rifles, that requires them to be sold with suppressors attached, and if operated by owner in any situations other than at the target practice range, that the suppressor cannot be removed.


This solution, although having no effect at all on reducing mass murders, will at least lessen the intial shock, awe, and terror, experienced by the victims of the crazed gunman, just prior to them being killed.

You at least begin to address the problem here:


If there were someway to get crazed gunman to have such poor aim as lighting bolts from a storm do, and be just as random, then my anxiety would be lessened somewhat.

But wander off to other nonsense even you admit will have no effect:


This solution, although having no effect at all on reducing mass murders, will at least lessen the intial shock, awe, and terror, experienced by the victims of the crazed gunman, just prior to them being killed.

[zelmo1234]

:lipsrsealed:
I think we are different types of conservatives, you apparently compassionate and me libertarian free market. You apparently think you can design and manage society, I do not. And the problem here is social.

Actually I was laughing when I read this as I usually am considered cold hearted!

We actually feel the same way, I just seek to understand the other side, and take note. I think if comes from looking for the out of the ordinary is work situations.

I am for some things so the we do not set rivers on fire like they did in cleveland, but not to much else I feel needs to be regulated.

I am a firm beleiver in Ronald Reagan when he said that government can ont fix the problem, because it is the problem.

But Reagan did understand his competition, "Tip Oneil" and the democrats And he used that knowledge to defeat them.

Some years agon His Son published his journal, It was a great look into the n=mind of a great man. So when I understand why they think the way that they do, I can choose my words to apeal to their emotions, even while I am still using logic?

Does that make sense?

[Awryly]

The problem is not guns. We can discuss that once you provide the missing logic that connects "100,000 people shot each and every year" to "gay abandon". Otherwise I have to assume it was merely an imaginwd an inflammatory conclusion. Or have you abandoned that unfounded flame?


So the problem is not guns? Just lunatics who own them?

Then why do the citizens of other civilised countries not shoot one another with the gay abandon you do?

Do you have more lunatics than they do?

[Awryly]

:lipsrsealed:

Actually I was laughing when I read this as I usually am considered cold hearted!

We actually feel the same way, I just seek to understand the other side, and take note. I think if comes from looking for the out of the ordinary is work situations.

I am for some things so the we do not set rivers on fire like they did in cleveland, but not to much else I feel needs to be regulated.

I am a firm beleiver in Ronald Reagan when he said that government can ont fix the problem, because it is the problem.

But Reagan did understand his competition, "Tip Oneil" and the democrats And he used that knowledge to defeat them.

Some years agon His Son published his journal, It was a great look into the n=mind of a great man. So when I understand why they think the way that they do, I can choose my words to apeal to their emotions, even while I am still using logic?



Some years agon His Son published his journal, It was a great look into the n=mind of a great man. So when I understand why they think the way that they do, I can choose my words to apeal to their emotions, even while I am still using logic?

Does that make sense?
Does that make sense?

Not really. His Son (the Wholly Spirit?) thought his father was a nutcase.

Which is a rare insight from one who had the misfortune to be His Son.

[GrumpyDog]

You at least begin to address the problem here:



But wander off to other nonsense even you admit will have no effect:


When talking about the use of guns, it is difficult to know which statements are rational, and which are not.

One person may think that a gun is no more dangerous than a shovel, or a pitchfork, or bolt of lighting, while another person, who got shot, or saw 23 other people killed by one person with a gun, may have a different perspective and believe there is a significant difference between the gun and other tools.

My solution, recognizes that it is pointless to attempt to convince Americans that they can live without guns, and instead, is a pragmatic solution, which the Republican House could agree to pass as a new regulation, since it will not affect their gun industry profits. At same time, the suppressor requirement, will at least lessen the noise of the crazed gunmans firearm, so that neighbors in the vicinity of driveby shootings, will be able to sleep at night without being awakened suddenly.

[Chris]

:lipsrsealed:

Actually I was laughing when I read this as I usually am considered cold hearted!

We actually feel the same way, I just seek to understand the other side, and take note. I think if comes from looking for the out of the ordinary is work situations.

I am for some things so the we do not set rivers on fire like they did in cleveland, but not to much else I feel needs to be regulated.

I am a firm beleiver in Ronald Reagan when he said that government can ont fix the problem, because it is the problem.

But Reagan did understand his competition, "Tip Oneil" and the democrats And he used that knowledge to defeat them.

Some years agon His Son published his journal, It was a great look into the n=mind of a great man. So when I understand why they think the way that they do, I can choose my words to apeal to their emotions, even while I am still using logic?

Does that make sense?

Yes, makes sense. I love talking to liberals (anyone actually) who likes to talk about their opinions and ideas.

Not heartless, just think society is better at solving it's problems without government interference.


"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
~ Ronald Reagan

[Mister D]

When talking about the use of guns, it is difficult to know which statements are rational, and which are not.

One person may think that a gun is no more dangerous than a shovel, or a pitchfork, or bolt of lighting, while another person, who got shot, or saw 23 other people killed by one person with a gun, may have a different perspective and believe there is a significant difference between the gun and other tools.

My solution, recognizes that it is pointless to attempt to convince Americans that they can live without guns, and instead, is a pragmatic solution, which the Republican House could agree to pass as a new regulation, since it will not affect their gun industry profits. At same time, the suppressor requirement, will at least lessen the noise of the crazed gunmans firearm, so that neighbors in the vicinity of driveby shootings, will be able to sleep at night without being awakened suddenly.

"Driveby shootings" must wake up many Democrat constituents.

[Chris]

So the problem is not guns? Just lunatics who own them?

Then why do the citizens of other civilised countries not shoot one another with the gay abandon you do?

Do you have more lunatics than they do?

Those are all good questions for discussion but let's go back to your statement Americans kill with gay abandon: Have you conceded the point since you have abandoned any attempt to defend it?

[Chris]

When talking about the use of guns, it is difficult to know which statements are rational, and which are not.

One person may think that a gun is no more dangerous than a shovel, or a pitchfork, or bolt of lighting, while another person, who got shot, or saw 23 other people killed by one person with a gun, may have a different perspective and believe there is a significant difference between the gun and other tools.

My solution, recognizes that it is pointless to attempt to convince Americans that they can live without guns, and instead, is a pragmatic solution, which the Republican House could agree to pass as a new regulation, since it will not affect their gun industry profits. At same time, the suppressor requirement, will at least lessen the noise of the crazed gunmans firearm, so that neighbors in the vicinity of driveby shootings, will be able to sleep at night without being awakened suddenly.

You might be more convincing if you approached your point logically.

[Awryly]

When talking about the use of guns, it is difficult to know which statements are rational, and which are not.

One person may think that a gun is no more dangerous than a shovel, or a pitchfork, or bolt of lighting, while another person, who got shot, or saw 23 other people killed by one person with a gun, may have a different perspective and believe there is a significant difference between the gun and other tools.

My solution, recognizes that it is pointless to attempt to convince Americans that they can live without guns, and instead, is a pragmatic solution, which the Republican House could agree to pass as a new regulation, since it will not affect their gun industry profits. At same time, the suppressor requirement, will at least lessen the noise of the crazed gunmans firearm, so that neighbors in the vicinity of driveby shootings, will be able to sleep at night without being awakened suddenly.

They should be so lucky they wake up.

Guns are embedded in US "culture" - if you can call it culture.

Money makes sure that won't change.

The cost is only a million shot every decade. They have 314 million. No-one will notice.

[Awryly]

You might be more convincing if you approached your point logically.


What, if anything, does that mean?

Should he stand on his head with a tulip in one ear and a magnolia in the other?

[Awryly]

Those are all good questions for discussion but let's go back to your statement Americans kill with gay abandon: Have you conceded the point since you have abandoned any attempt to defend it?


You are not trying to be gay enough.

I suspect odd tendencies.

[Chris]

What, if anything, does that mean?

Should he stand on his head with a tulip in one ear and a magnolia in the other?

It means what it says. People expect a modicum of logic. Not mere opinions and appeal to emotion.


I take it you've conceded the "gay abandon" flame and keep changing the topic now. Good night, awrly.

[Chris]

You are not trying to be gay enough.

I suspect odd tendencies.

Trolling again.

[Awryly]

It means what it says. People expect a modicum of logic. Not mere opinions and appeal to emotion.


I take it you've conceded the "gay abandon" flame and keep changing the topic now. Good night, awrly.


You appear to be besotted with things that are, in your opinion, "inflammatorily gay".

Why don't to put these unnatural urges behind you and address the questions I have asked?

Is that not what this forum is for?

[Awryly]

Trolling again.


At your request.

If you answered the question, you might get more considered answers.

And, if you continue this trolling, I will have to report you to yourself.

[Mister D]

You are not trying to be gay enough.

I suspect odd tendencies.

Oh, he was gay enough. He bent you over and fucked you in the ass. It hurt to watch. I can't imagine how it felt for you. :undecided:

[GrumpyDog]

You might be more convincing if you approached your point logically.

But I did. Given that Republicans in the House of Reps, will most assuredly be adamantly opposed to any suggestions of new gun legislation, the proposal for mandatory suppressors, is one which:

A. Does nothing to limit gun owners bearing and keeping their arms.

B. Actually would increase gun sales, thus profits for gun manufacturers, because law abiding citizens would take advantage of being able to own a gun that for years, only CIA, and Mafia had access too.

C. Traumatization of the victims is lessened, because no noise is heard.

D. Other neighbors, inside their own homes, but not targets, will not hear anything from the driveby shooters, thus when police ask them later, they will not have to lie as they usually do, to police investigators, and for once, will be telling the truth when saying they heard nothing and saw nothing.

[Awryly]

Oh, he was gay enough. He bent you over and fucked you in the ass. It hurt to watch. I can't imagine how it felt for you. :undecided:

Not that I recollect, you wee troll.

[Mister D]

Not that I recollect, you wee troll.

I'm sure you'd rather forget. :sad: Perhaps the admins could recommend a good rape counselor?

[Mister D]

On the other hand, how do you think your sheep feel? :angry:

[Awryly]

But I did. Given that Republicans in the House of Reps, will most assuredly be adamantly opposed to any suggestions of new gun legislation, the proposal for mandatory suppressors, is one which:

A. Does nothing to limit gun owners bearing and keeping their arms.

B. Actually would increase gun sales, thus profits for gun manufacturers, because law abiding citizens would take advantage of being able to own a gun that for years, only CIA, and Mafia had access too.

C. Traumatization of the victims is lessened, because no noise is heard.

D. Other neighbors, inside their own homes, but not targets, will not hear anything from the driveby shooters, thus when police ask them later, they will not have to lie as they usually do, to police investigators, and for once, will be telling the truth when saying they heard nothing and saw nothing.


The gun lobby policy is that there will be a suitable period of weeping and wailing.

Then there will offers of AR whatevers at discounted prices to the bereaved families.

[Awryly]

On the other hand, how do you think your sheep feel? :angry:

You eat them. You tell me.

[GrumpyDog]

The gun lobby policy is that there will be a suitable period of weeping and wailing.

Then there will offers of AR whatevers at discounted prices to the bereaved families.


Walmart Christmas special no doubt. With complementary Religious Fanatic book of your choice.

[Mister D]

You eat them. You tell me.

I'm not a fan of lamb or mutton but you do seem to like America sausage. :wink:

[roadmaster]

Walmart Christmas special no doubt. With complementary Religious Fanatic book of your choice.
So you think this young man was religious? If so what God?

[Awryly]

Walmart Christmas special no doubt. With complementary Religious Fanatic book of your choice.

I would hope that Walmart is subversive enough to make that the Koran.

Does it have a "Happy Holidays" policy?

[Awryly]

I'm not a fan of lamb or mutton but you do seem to like America sausage. :wink:

'Fraid not. I know depleted uranium when I see it.

[Awryly]

So you think this young man was religious? If so what God?


Mammon, Isis, Aphrodite?

Does it matter?

[Mister D]

'Fraid not. I know depleted uranium when I see it.

It does leave you craving for more. I'll concede that...

[Awryly]

It does leave you craving for more. I'll concede that...

Are you doing this all on your own?

Or do you have help? From Christopher Comumble?

[Conley]

It does leave you craving for more. I'll concede that...

Are we talking about yellow cake? Cuz that schnit is delicious!!!

[Mister D]

Are you doing this all on your own?

Or do you have help?

Having my way with you? No, we take turns. :smiley:

[roadmaster]

Mammon, Isis, Aphrodite?

Does it matter?
Well yea because Christians don't try to make the world end. He will do that when it is time and not before. Nor do we predict the time or day for no one not even the ones in heaven knows. The ones who say different doesn't know Him.

[Mister D]

Mammon, Isis, Aphrodite?

Does it matter?

What makes you think he was a religious fanatic?

[GrumpyDog]

So you think this young man was religious? If so what God?

Not for sure, but given the coincidence of some people owning an arsenal of guns, and acting as if they were toys that God approves of, there is reason to suspect some religion involved. My best guess is Catholic, since that religion has a history of tramatizing young boys, but it could very well be some Protestant looney fringe, (too far north for Southern Baptist however),or some other alternative psychology, maybe something in some Guns R US monthly magazine.

[Awryly]

Not for sure, but given the coincidence of some people owning an arsenal of guns, and acting as if they were toys that God approves of, there is reason to suspect some religion involved. My best guess is Catholic, since that religion has a history of tramatizing young boys, but it could very well be some Protestant looney fringe, (too far north for Southern Baptist however),or some other alternative psychology, maybe something in some Guns R US monthly magazine.


All gods love guns.

They encourage belief.

Americans believe a lot.

[Mister D]

Not for sure, but given the coincidence of some people owning an arsenal of guns, and acting as if they were toys that God approves of, there is reason to suspect some religion involved. My best guess is Catholic, since that religion has a history of tramatizing young boys, but it could very well be some Protestant looney fringe, (too far north for Southern Baptist however),or some other alternative psychology, maybe something in some Guns R US monthly magazine.

What you mean to say is that you made that up out of whole cloth. Understood.

[GrumpyDog]

All gods love guns.

They encourage belief.

Americans believe a lot.

Lighting bolts used to be enough, but as more and more people populated the earth, and more and more lighting bolts were required, God became tired. Plus, the people were not satisfied with the results. So by the theory of Natural Selection, as man evolved, so did more satisfactory means of dispensing Gods will, in the form of manmade (but God approved) weaponry, leading to the ultimate Holy weapon, the H-Bomb.

[Awryly]

What you mean to say is that you made that up out of whole cloth. Understood.

No. Plastic.

Learn to love the latest creations of your Creator.

He knows what is best for you.

[Mister D]

No. Plastic.

Learn to love the latest creations of your Creator.

He knows what is best for you.

No, you got the "real McCoy" tonight. It was 100% sausage. :grin:

So what makes you think the killer was a religious fanatic?

[Mister D]

No worries, Awryly. Grumpydog can't come up with anything either. :smiley:

[Awryly]

No, you got the "real McCoy" tonight. It was 100% sausage. :grin:

So what makes you think the killer was a religious fanatic?

I don't. He was just doing his duty. :flag::flag::flag:

The gun lobby couldn't applaud, cos the media would have misinterpreted it.

[roadmaster]

Not for sure, but given the coincidence of some people owning an arsenal of guns, and acting as if they were toys that God approves of, there is reason to suspect some religion involved. My best guess is Catholic, since that religion has a history of tramatizing young boys, but it could very well be some Protestant looney fringe, (too far north for Southern Baptist however),or some other alternative psychology, maybe something in some Guns R US monthly magazine. Atheist also have a bigger history of traumatizing young boys. Got to do better than that. Out of the many Priest only a handful but you want to make them all into monsters but overlook the non-religious ones. No true Christian would kill young kids or hurt them in that way, believe what you want. Do love the way atheist always want to point fingers but never look in the mirror.

[Awryly]

Atheist also have a bigger history of traumatizing young boys. Got to do better than that. Out of the many Priest only a handful but you want to make them all into monsters but overlook the non-religious ones. No true Christian would kill young kids or hurt them in that way, believe what you want. Do love the way atheist always want to point fingers but never look in the mirror.

You talked to the Vatican lately?

It's enthusiastically trying to make its clergy, who fiddle with little boys, look Christian

[GrumpyDog]

No worries, Awryly. Grumpydog can't come up with anything either. :smiley:

Dobson. Evangelical Preacher. Say God let innocent children get killed, including children of believers, in order to pass judgement on other non believers, some of them, living on the West Coast of America, whose non believing children were not harmed.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/james-dobson-finds-a-way-to-connect-ct-shooting-to-abortion-and-gay-marriage/

[zelmo1234]

According to something I heard on CNN, the Brady bunch are out-matched 4100 to one by the bribing resources of the NRA and gun lobby.

Yeah and the facts are against them too! And that really hurts!

[roadmaster]

You talked to the Vatican lately?

It's enthusiastically trying to make its clergy, who fiddle with little boys, look Christian
I am not Catholic why would I talk to anyone except Jesus?

[GrumpyDog]

What you mean to say is that you made that up out of whole cloth. Understood.

Ever heard of "ShotGun News"? Available in WALMART! (has every weapon you can imagine, available for mail order delivery, and you can buy parts separately, without an FFL, and construct the weapon yourself. The receiver, the main part, is supposed to require an FFL, but who knows if they are enforcing the regulation.


Ever heard of David Koresh? The Waco massacre? Was that episode entirely just ATF fault as the gun enthusiasts would like for me to believe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

[hanger4]

Ever heard of "ShotGun News"? Available in WALMART! (has every weapon you can imagine, available for mail order delivery, and you can buy parts separately, without an FFL, and construct the weapon yourself. The receiver, the main part, is supposed to require an FFL, but who knows if they are enforcing the regulation.


Ever heard of David Koresh? The Waco massacre? Was that episode entirely just ATF fault as the gun enthusiasts would like for me to believe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

Your post conveniently ignored that you made up the "religious fanatic" rant which Mister D was referring to.

BTW "ShotGun News" "has every weapon you can imagine" is utter BS.

[Awryly]

Piers Morgan on CNN is giving the gun lobby both his barrels. He comes at the question with the passion and disengenuity of most observers from civilised countries. He savages his NRA guests mercilessly calling one of them - who come to his programme already bearing the unfortunate handle of Pratt - a dishonest idiot who told barefaced lies - to his face. Of course, Morgan was right. But he and all Americans will still lose.

Like Morgan, my view is that Americans live on another planet. They have let the gun lobby - through a combination of baseless paranoia, fear and mythology - wilfully distort a badly-written constitution in order to make money from selling guns and munitions not to Syrians but to Americans. It is a typical American business model: create a non-existent demand (cosmetics, anyone?) and mercilessly market products that have no real use, and generally don't work.

The current anguishing will subside as it always does. The NRA will offer Congress bigger bribes and laud the virtues of buying their product so that Americans can preserve themselves in the situation that the NRA has already created for them. The Sandy Hook people will simply go into the statistics as just another unfortunate cost of preserving "freedom (tm)" by selling everyone better, bigger, faster and more lethal guns, more body armour (they're making anti-flak schoolbags, for chrissakes) and turning public places into fortifications.

Americans will never know how fundamentally sick this scenario is until some group decides to start a civil war. And the only beneficiaries of that will be - you guessed it - Hollywood, which will have more grist to add to its already grisly mill.

Some character on another Republican forum made the comment that America can afford a few tens of thousands dead shot each year - using the business model so beloved by the NRA. More dead = more need for the guns it sells. Until everyone disappears up their own bazookas.

George Orwell could not have created such a script. And, even if he had, it would have been only in the pages of a book. Americans are living it out.

The rest of the world, like Morgan, looks on agasp.

PS: anyone willing to take odds that Morgan will be assassinated by an NRA bullet?

[Peter1469]

And NZ is an irrelevant speed bump in the water.

What they think is simply not relevant.

[Chris]

Piers Morgan sensationalized the tragedy the other night and then turned to two psychologists expert in mass killings who chewed him up and spit him out. When Piers picked himself up off the floor he went back to sensationalizing the tragedy as if they'd said nothing. He's just an entertainer, what do you expect.

[Awryly]

Piers Morgan sensationalized the tragedy the other night and then turned to two psychologists expert in mass killings who chewed him up and spit him out. When Piers picked himself up off the floor he went back to sensationalizing the tragedy as if they'd said nothing. He's just an entertainer, what do you expect.

I think you must have been watching Sesame Street again.

[Chris]

I think you must have been watching Sesame Street again.

Sorry, not biting tonight, troll. You could have chosen to ask for details of what they said, to engage in discussion, instead you chose to make up a flippant off topic insult. Good night, troll.

[Awryly]

Sorry, not biting tonight, troll. You could have chosen to ask for details of what they said, to engage in discussion, instead you chose to make up a flippant off topic insult. Good night, troll.

I am sorry you thought your mistruths were deserving of greater approbation.

[Mister D]

New Zealand is pretty gun friendly. After those two mass murders in the 1990s I'm surprised. :grin: Not including the 3 or 4 family massacres of course.

[zelmo1234]

I am sorry you thought your mistruths were deserving of greater approbation.

I am still waiting to here why the gun ban did not work for you neighbor?

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

I am also sure that you would want to see the biggest gun violations prosicuted so people selling guns to criminals are punished to the fullest extent of the law

[Awryly]

New Zealand is pretty gun friendly. After those two mass murders in the 1990s I'm surprised. :grin: Not including the 3 or 4 family massacres of course.


Country
% of homicides by firearm
Number of homicides by firearm
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop
Rank by rate of ownership
Average firearms per 100 people
Average total all




New Zealand
13.5
7
0.16
22
22.6
925,00




United States
60
9,146
2.97
1
88.8
270,000,000



This was years ago. You now murder about 12,000 a year with guns, and wound another 20,000. The NZ rate has gone down further - largely because drug dealers have been brought under control.

But we also ban all assault weapons, and all handguns not held by registered gun club owners.

No silly 2nd amendment here. Our society can sort out its problems without having to genuflect to some piece of paper written over 200 years ago by guys who couldn't foresee what nonsense their script would lead to.

[Awryly]

I am still waiting to here why the gun ban did not work for you neighbor?

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

I am also sure that you would want to see the biggest gun violations prosicuted so people selling guns to criminals are punished to the fullest extent of the law

Australia, where I still do not live despite your unshakeable misconceptions, has a gun homicide rate so far below yours as to be laughable.




Australia
11.5
30
0.14
42
15
3,050,000


Ie: 0.14% per 100,000 compared with your 2.97%.

NZ, where I do live, is much the same (0.16%).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

[Mister D]

Country
% of homicides by firearm
Number of homicides by firearm
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop
Rank by rate of ownership
Average firearms per 100 people
Average total all




New Zealand
13.5
7
0.16
22
22.6
925,00




United States
60
9,146
2.97
1
88.8
270,000,000



This was years ago. You now murder about 12,000 a year with guns, and wound another 20,000. The NZ rate has gone down further - largely because drug dealers have been brought under control.

But we also ban all assault weapons, and all handguns not held by registered gun club owners.

No silly 2nd amendment here. Our society can sort out its problems without having to genuflect to some piece of paper written over 200 years ago by guys who couldn't foresee what nonsense their script would lead to.

We ban assault weapons too. Apparently, you're confused as to what exactly an assault weapon is. No worries. I guess "assault weapon" has become as meaningless as "racism" and "fascism".

Again, New Zealand is pretty gun friendly. After those two mass murders in the 1990s I'm surprised. :grin: Not including the 3 or 4 family massacres of course.

[Mister D]

Australia, where I still do not live despite your unshakeable misconceptions, has a gun homicide rate so far below yours as to be laughable.




Australia
11.5
30
0.14
42
15
3,050,000


Ie: 0.14% per 100,000 compared with your 2.97%.




:laugh: He's not calling you neighbor, jackass. "You neighbor" is obviously supposed to be "your neighbor".

[Awryly]

We ban assault weapons too. Apparently, you're confused as to what exactly an assault weapon is. No worries. I guess "assault weapon" has become as meaningless as "racism" and "fascism".

Again, New Zealand is pretty gun friendly. After those two mass murders in the 1990s I'm surprised. :grin: Not including the 3 or 4 family massacres of course.

20 years ago. Lol. Not four massacres in the last month.

And how is an AR-15 not an assault weapon?

Focus on the facts, noddy. 0.16 gun homicides per 100,000 in NZ v. 2.97% in the US.

[Mister D]

20 years ago. Lol.

And how is an AR-15 not an assault weapon?

Focus on the facts, noddy. 0.16 gun homicides per 100,000 on NZ v. 2.97% in the US.

So? Lol

What makes it an assault weapon? Do you know? Cuz it looks scaweey? :laugh:

Mass murder is no stranger to gun friendly New Zealand. :grin: Making you look foolish is far too easy. I can count on you.

[Awryly]

So? Lol

What makes it an assault weapon? Do you know? Cuz it looks scaweey? :laugh:

Mass murder is no stranger to gun friendly New Zealand. :grin: Making you look foolish is far too easy. I can count on you.


So you don't like facts. So that's OK. Sell your mates more of these and hope they don't slaughter another classroom of kids. Or would that just help sell more?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Assault-Rifles.cfm?cat_id=256

[Mister D]

So you don't like facts. So that's OK. Sell your mates more of these and hope they don't massacre a classroom of kids. Or would that just help sell more?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Assault-Rifles.cfm?cat_id=256

Just to rub my latest victory in a bit...the gun used in the CT shooting is legal in New Zealand! :smiley_ROFLMAO:

[Captain Obvious]

Yay - Awryly is back.

And the pygmies danced with joy.

http://www.donparrish.com/images/PygmiesDancing.jpg

[Awryly]

Just to run my latest victory in a bit...the gun used in the CT shooting is legal in New Zealand! :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Wasn't an assault rifle or handgun then?

Gosh you're good. You running for mayor?

[Mister D]

Wasn't an assault rifle or handgun then?

Gosh you're good. You running for mayor?

I'm awesome, thanks. That bitch slapping was on the house. :smiley:

[Awryly]

Yay - Awryly is back.

And the pygmies danced with joy.

http://www.donparrish.com/images/PygmiesDancing.jpg


The pygmies have heard the news in their fastnesses in the jungles of Mozambique or wherever they live their joyous lives?

You be havum much powerful tomtom.

[zelmo1234]

Australia, where I still do not live despite your unshakeable misconceptions, has a gun homicide rate so far below yours as to be laughable.

Yes that is why I called them you neighbors. They are in your nape of the wave.

It would be interesting to know about your illegal drug use and gang violence.

I wonder how you numbers compare to ours.

And yes Austrailias numbers might be below ours, but they went up after the gun ban, because just like here the criminals do not turn in there guns.

But You are free to live like you want to live, and not free to force your opinions on other people, We have a lot bigger problems in this country than taking legal firearms from law abiding citizens which is all gun bans ever do.




Australia

11.5

30

0.14

42

15

3,050,000



Ie: 0.14% per 100,000 compared with your 2.97%.

NZ, where I do live, is much the same (0.16%).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

[Awryly]

Yes that is why I called them you neighbors. They are in your nape of the wave.

It would be interesting to know about your illegal drug use and gang violence.

I wonder how you numbers compare to ours.

And yes Austrailias numbers might be below ours, but they went up after the gun ban, because just like here the criminals do not turn in there guns.

But You are free to live like you want to live, and not free to force your opinions (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#) on other people, We have a lot bigger problems in this country than taking legal firearms from law abiding citizens which is all gun bans ever do.

Up, down or sideways ... the facts are you still kill grotesquely more people with the guns you love so much.

Fiddle with the figures all you like. The NRA employs experts to do it. But nothing changes the bottom line.

[Awryly]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg

One must consider whether all of that world is actually "developed".

Mustn't one?

I see Milton Friedman taught the Chileans well as part of the wee experiment that produced Pinochet.

You'll notice that Israel, which arms its citizens to the teeth, strangely does not shoot its own people.

[GrumpyDog]

Einstein was pessimistic. Or maybe a pissed Mystic. Either way, he was not sure how a 3rd world war would be fought, but he was certain that WW4 would be fought with sticks and stones.

This is a depressing conclusion that man, despite utter destruction of everything, will never learn from mistakes, and is doomed to be driven by his nature, to kill himself, even if only having nothing left, but sticks and stones to use as weapons.

The conservatives seem to have resigned themselves to this pessimistic view, and apparently conclude that it is an exercise in futility, to explore any alternative models for social organization.

Likewise, the conservative view of Winner takes All, economics, , and reinforced by selected text in the Caucasians Blessed, version of the Holy Bible, see any other form of ecomomic theory as futile, since their conclusion is that mans basic "nature" is to desire power and status by any means necessary, including all out warfare (but using the "lesser" miserables to fight it).

[Awryly]

Einstein was pessimistic. Or maybe a pissed Mystic. Either way, he was not sure how a 3rd world war would be fought, but he was certain that WW4 would be fought with sticks and stones.

This is a depressing conclusion that man, despite utter destruction of everything, will never learn from mistakes, and is doomed to be driven by his nature, to kill himself, even if only having nothing left, but sticks and stones to use as weapons.

The conservatives seem to have resigned themselves to this pessimistic view, and apparently conclude that it is an exercise in futility, to explore any alternative models for social organization.

Likewise, the conservative view of Winner takes All, economics, , and reinforced by selected text in the Caucasians Blessed, version of the Holy Bible, see any other form of ecomomic theory as futile, since their conclusion is that mans basic "nature" is to desire power and status by any means necessary, including all out warfare (but using the "lesser" miserables to fight it).

Dog

You are unduly pessimistic. While the Yanks arm themselves for an Armageddon that will surely arrive given their enthusiastic association with the NRA's version of the Old Testament, it will be confined to those states of the union that are best armed and best in the way of killing their own.

I suspect Vermont, Maine and Oregon will seek the protection of Canada. It is not entirely impossible that Florida will join the union of free Cuban peoples.

[Awryly]

I have heard even Americans talk of an American mind-set that is purely and simply psychotic.

The sales of AR-15s have rocketed post Sandy Hook. Just as the NRA intended.

Prepare the bext batch of coffins.

[hanger4]

You'll notice that Israel, which arms its citizens to the teeth, strangely does not shoot its own people.

Maybe the Israelis are on to something, seems if everybody's armed ya don't go around shootin' innocents cause they'll shoot the frick back.

And ya sure as hell don't tell the bag guys ya can't bring your guns in here cause "we" said so.

Good job Awryly, in your own perverse and misguided way, I believe you've stumbled across one of the many small solutions to this problem.

[Awryly]

Maybe the Israelis are on to something, seems if everybody's armed ya don't go around shootin' innocents cause they'll shoot the frick back.

And ya sure as hell don't tell the bag guys ya can't bring your guns in here cause "we" said so.

Good job Awryly, in your own perverse and misguided way, I believe you've stumbled across one of the many small solutions to this problem.


But you're all armed already. You have the highest proportion of guns per head of population than any other country on earth.

Not working for you in the same way it's working for the Israelis, is it?

:knob:

[hanger4]

But you're all armed already. You have the highest proportion of guns per head of population than any other country on earth.

Not working for you in the same way it's working for the Israelis, is it?

:knob:

Hardly "all", but it does work, those states that allow CC have less crime than those states and cities that ban guns.

You said so yourself.

[Chris]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg

One must consider whether all of that world is actually "developed".

Mustn't one?

I see Milton Friedman taught the Chileans well as part of the wee experiment that produced Pinochet.

You'll notice that Israel, which arms its citizens to the teeth, strangely does not shoot its own people.

Amazing isn't it, here is awryly repeating again and again the same fact, and then stating opinions as if the fact supports him when there is no connection. Murder rates have no relation to economic development, the US is no 1 and Chile is barely developed--no connection there. Then the erroneous flame about Friedman out of the blue--no connection there. Then some nonsense about Israel--no connection there. One fact followed by non sequitur after non sequitur. An insight into the (non)working of an (un)thinking mind?

[Awryly]

Amazing isn't it, here is awryly repeating again and again the same fact, and then stating opinions as if the fact supports him when there is no connection. Murder rates have no relation to economic development, the US is no 1 and Chile is barely developed--no connection there. Then the erroneous flame about Friedman out of the blue--no connection there. Then some nonsense about Israel--no connection there. One fact followed by non sequitur after non sequitur. An insight into the (non)working of an (un)thinking mind?

Alas my wand is on the blink.

If you want understanding, try that clever wee fellow who started a couple of wars and plunged you into the abyss you currently cling to.

[Awryly]

The only thing as sickening as the slaughter of the kids at that primary school is the suddenly-discovered righteous indignation that escaped Americans while, year in year out, thousands on thousands get shot to death and gun sales soar.

And do you know 1 in 5 Americans are mentally ill but only 0.7% of gun applications are denied on mental grounds.

Don't tell me. Only the sane ones want to own guns.

[Awryly]

I see the NRA wants to park enthusiastic gunmen in schools. Quite a clever strategy. It raises the angst levels of all Americans with schoolkids, generates a siege mentality, and ensures that gun sales and gated communities will sky-rocket.

It also blames the video and film industry for America's level of violence. Which is odd when you consider that, for example, Canadian, NZ, Aussie and Brit kids watch the same stuff without it generating industrial scale killing later in life.

But then the NRA employs hundreds of "experts" to make stuff up - in order to create demand for its various products.

According to the NRA, guns have nothing to do with people being shot.

This organisation has, for 50 years, worked energetically to ensure that guns are held by anyone who can pull a trigger. It has embedded a culture of bravado, fear and paranoia throughout America. You let it happen. Now you are paying the price.

[GrumpyDog]

I see the NRA wants to park enthusiastic gunmen in schools. Quite a clever strategy. It raises the angst levels of all Americans with schoolkids, generates a siege mentality, and ensures that gun sales and gated communities will sky-rocket.

It also blames the video and film industry for America's level of violence. Which is odd when you consider that, for example, Canadian, NZ, Aussie and Brit kids watch the same stuff without it generating industrial scale killing later in life.

But then the NRA employs hundreds of "experts" to make stuff up - in order to create demand for its various products.

According to the NRA, guns have nothing to do with people being shot.

This organisation has, for 50 years, worked energetically to ensure that guns are held by anyone who can pull a trigger. It has embedded a culture of bravado, fear and paranoia throughout America. You let it happen. Now you are paying the price.

It probably has something to do with healthcare, and/or pathelogically driven motivation to be "exceptional", or at least, become famous for 15 minutes.. Americans are extremely anxious all the time, in their effort to achieve this abstract definition of success.

[Awryly]

It probably has something to do with healthcare, and/or pathelogically driven motivation to be "exceptional", or at least, become famous for 15 minutes.. Americans are extremely anxious all the time, in their effort to achieve this abstract definition of success.

According to CNN, abject fear levels have now reached 47%.

The other 53% are on mind-numbing drugs.

[Awryly]

The die has been cast. In fact it was cast many, many years ago.

America is hoisted with its own petard.

There is no way out now. The best you can do to avoid a one in thirty chance of becoming a shooting victim is to barricade yourselves into ever greater fortifications.

Stock prices and employment opportunities in US security companies must be rocketing. Of course you have to have had experience in Afghanistan and/or Iraq to be a credible candidate to fortify Americans against Americans. But their are plenty of those. Some of them even still have their legs.

[hanger4]

There is no way out now. The best you can do to avoid a one in thirty chance of becoming a shooting victim is to barricade yourselves into ever greater fortifications.


More BS by Awryly,


The odds of dying by gun shot are about 1 in 314.


The odds of dying in a car are roughly 1 in 100

[Awryly]

More BS by Awryly,


The odds of dying by gun shot are about 1 in 314.


The odds of dying in a car are roughly 1 in 100

hELLO?

I said shot. Not killed.

[zelmo1234]

The die has been cast. In fact it was cast many, many years ago.

America is hoisted with its own petard.

There is no way out now. The best you can do to avoid a one in thirty chance of becoming a shooting victim is to barricade yourselves into ever greater fortifications.

Stock prices and employment opportunities in US security companies must be rocketing. Of course you have to have had experience in Afghanistan and/or Iraq to be a credible candidate to fortify Americans against Americans. But their are plenty of those. Some of them even still have their legs.

Well I do have experience in both places and I can tell you that excutives pay big buck when they travel to your neck of the wood, because in your country and that of your neighbors down under, only the bad guys have gun!

[Awryly]

Well I do have experience in both places and I can tell you that excutives pay big buck when they travel to your neck of the wood, because in your country and that of your neighbors down under, only the bad guys have gun!

Did you notice that almost no-one gets shot?

My guess is you are over-paid.

[zelmo1234]

Did you notice that almost no-one gets shot?

My guess is you are over-paid.

I don't know is 25K per week over paid??????? but then what price would you put on your life???? Sorry! should have worded that different. what value would you put on someone's life that lives in a country that makes life worth living!

[Awryly]

I don't know is 25K per week over paid??????? but then what price would you put on your life???? Sorry! should have worded that different. what value would you put on someone's life that lives in a country that makes life worth living!

Nothing. They have no need of anything more.

If they live in a country where any Tom, Dick or Harry is likely to put a slug in them, they should consult an insurance agent.

I recommend AIG 'cos their logo is in the shirts of our world-beating All Blacks.

[zelmo1234]

Nothing. They have no need of anything more.

If they live in a country where any Tom, Dick or Harry is likely to put a slug in them, they should consult an insurance agent.

I recommend AIG 'cos their logo is in the shirts of our world-beating All Blacks.

The did call an insurance agent???? ME! and I will make sure that any Tom, Dick or Harry dones not put a Slug in them????

And as for your last line??? Blacks too??????? Now you have a problem with jews and blacks??? sho esle is on your list??

[Awryly]

The did call an insurance agent???? ME! and I will make sure that any Tom, Dick or Harry dones not put a Slug in them????

And as for your last line??? Blacks too??????? Now you have a problem with jews and blacks??? sho esle is on your list??

Orcs.

[hanger4]

hELLO?

I said shot. Not killed.

I can't seem to find any reliable info/odds on, just being shot.

Please be so kind as to releasing your source for the 1 in 30 ratio of being shot.

Thanks.

[Awryly]

I left two noughts off. Your rate is 1:3000. Ours is 1:22,000.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_2008__2009_FINAL.p df

And it's would be a simple problem to fix if you had the brains to fix it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-the-solution-to-gun-violence-is-clear/2012/12/19/110a6f82-4a15-11e2-b6f0-e851e741d196_story.html

[Peter1469]

Limiting access to guns does nothing to solve the problem- violent (largely) youth. It is like taking aspirin every day to mask a growing brain tumor.

http://voxday.blogspot.be/2012/12/why-us-gun-deaths-are-high.html



^^^^
[Did Fareed Zakaria (http://www.washingtonpost.com/fareed-zakaria/2011/02/24/ABhDZWN_page.html) write this on his own?]

[Chris]

I left two noughts off. Your rate is 1:3000. Ours is 1:22,000.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_2008__2009_FINAL.p df

Your link does not provide the 1 in 30 or the 1 in 3000 data nor anything about NZ.

I do find @ Flash Facts About Lightning (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0623_040623_lightningfacts.html) that "The odds of being struck [by lightning] in your lifetime is 1 in 3,000."

[Awryly]

Limiting access to guns does nothing to solve the problem- violent (largely) youth. It is like taking aspirin every day to mask a growing brain tumor.

http://voxday.blogspot.be/2012/12/why-us-gun-deaths-are-high.html



^^^^
[Did Fareed Zakaria (http://www.washingtonpost.com/fareed-zakaria/2011/02/24/ABhDZWN_page.html) write this on his own?]

Then clearly you read only NRA progaganda.

Access to guns, especially semiautomatic guns with high-capacity magazines, is the best recipe for getting yourself killed.

In Australia the gun homicide rate dropped by 59% after the introduction of new gun laws outlawing assault rifles, and a government buy-back of weapons.


In the last 16 years, the risk of dying by gunshot in Australia has fallen by more than 50 percent. The national rate of gun homicide is one-thirtieth that of the United States. And there hasn't been a single mass shooting since Port Arthur.
"It's not that we are a less violent people and that you are a more violent people," says Philip Alpers, an adjunct associate professor at the University of Sydney (http://abcnews.go.com/International/australia-model-successful-gun-control-laws/story?id=18007055#) who runs GunPolicy.org, which tracks gun violence and gun laws across the world. "It's that you have more lethal means at your disposal."

The Japanese have almost no guns deaths (11 last year in a population of 128 million). Because they do not permit most types of guns.

But, hey, ignore these facts if you like. Am I'm pretty sure you'll like.

[Awryly]

Your link does not provide the 1 in 30 or the 1 in 3000 data nor anything about NZ.

I do find @ Flash Facts About Lightning (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0623_040623_lightningfacts.html) that "The odds of being struck [by lightning] in your lifetime is 1 in 3,000."

So you are still having that comprehension problem I offered to fix?

The Brady report had a bunch of attributions at the bottom. You know how to click, I assume.

[Awryly]

I thought this statement by Joe Lieberman on State of the Nation pretty much summed up the NRA.

"The only thing the NRA does not think is responsible for gun violence is guns".

[Peter1469]

Then clearly you read only NRA progaganda.

Access to guns, especially semiautomatic guns with high-capacity magazines, is the best recipe for getting yourself killed.

In Australia the gun homicide rate dropped by 59% after the introduction of new gun laws outlawing assault rifles, and a government buy-back of weapons.



The Japanese have almost no guns deaths (11 last year in a population of 128 million). Because they do not permit most types of guns.

But, hey, ignore these facts if you like. Am I'm pretty sure you'll like.

But the US has 350M people, 300M legal guns, and God only knows how many illegal guns. If you can't get rid of those, your thesis is dead in the water. The only logical choice is to let honest citizens defend themselves.

I suspect that the gun control crowd would rather a fascist government to smash all dissent and criminal behavior. Seig Heil.

[Awryly]

But the US has 350M people, 300M legal guns, and God only knows how many illegal guns. If you can't get rid of those, your thesis is dead in the water. The only logical choice is to let honest citizens defend themselves.

I suspect that the gun control crowd would rather a fascist government to smash all dissent and criminal behavior. Seig Heil.

You have certainly managed to get yourselves into a massive hole. And throwing Nazi salutes is not going to get you of it.

I suppose your preference to arm everyone with AR-15s is one option. But expect to die in even bigger numbers.

You really are a very strange race.

[Awryly]

I don't know is 25K per week over paid??????? but then what price would you put on your life???? Sorry! should have worded that different. what value would you put on someone's life that lives in a country that makes life worth living!

$25k a week? What do you do?

Manufacture assault weapons?

Deliver Koch brother propaganda?

[Chris]

So you are still having that comprehension problem I offered to fix?

The Brady report had a bunch of attributions at the bottom. You know how to click, I assume.

Yes, I fail to comprehend how you think the Bradly link supports your claim when it clearly does not as you yourself just admitted. The problem is yours as it is your claim to provide evidence for. Burden's on you, bubba. Good luck.

[Peter1469]

You have certainly managed to get yourselves into a massive hole. And throwing Nazi salutes is not going to get you of it.

I suppose your preference to arm everyone with AR-15s is one option. But expect to die in even bigger numbers.

You really are a very strange race.

I think that choice is the answer.

[Awryly]

Yes, I fail to comprehend how you think the Bradly link supports your claim when it clearly does not as you yourself just admitted. The problem is yours as it is your claim to provide evidence for. Burden's on you, bubba. Good luck.

How did I admit it?

[Awryly]

I think that choice is the answer.

It's not as if I care. But that means armed security at every public facility that will be still be too weak to resist determined attacks by well-armed gunmen. National Guard permanently on the streets?

But if you think more deaths, more fear, vast paranoia, fortified facilities is the answer, you have given up on your own country. Unless you want to live in a police state. (I see the government is already having to use drones on you.)

But it will give sociologists a minefield (no pun intended) of fascinating data to explore and write about for hundreds of years to come.

[Peter1469]

It's not as if I care. But that means armed security at every public facility that will be still be too weak to resist determined attacks by well-armed gunmen. National Guard permanently on the streets?

But if you think more deaths, more fear, vast paranoia, fortified facilities is the answer, you have given up on your own country.

But it will give sociologists a minefield (no pun intended) of fascinating data to explore and write about for hundreds of years to come.

Wrong.

And armed citizenry is the answer. You police and guards can take the reports after the fact when they show up.

[Awryly]

Wrong.

And armed citizenry is the answer. You police and guards can take the reports after the fact when they show up.

Your trained police are a menace themselves. Look at the Empire State shootings. Untrained citizens armed with AR-15s roaming the streets, startled by the pop of a car exhaust, will create mayhem.

But I guess Gucci will make a killing (again, no pun intended) by producing designer assault gun carriers.

And imagine the cost of all this "self-protection". Hospital costs will soar, funeral direction will become a major industry, shopping will become an excursion into a war zone. Consumers will stay at home, schoolkids will be conducted by weaponised parents to weaponised schools.. and so on.

Your tourism industry will go down the tubes:


Tourists in Somaliland are required to be accompanied by armed guards outside the capital.


George Orwell could not have thought up such a macabre scenario. You might just as well shoot yourselves and get it over with.

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/50cf3caa6bb3f79026000004-471-390-292/policestate-1.jpg
Welcome to elementary school. But those batons will be useless.

http://helablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/familly_christmas_photos_guns_3.jpg

http://drpunchface.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/guns_family_portrait.jpg