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MMC
03-04-2018, 02:52 PM
President Trump warned the European Union Saturday that it can expect new taxes on cars if they follow through with their threat to increase tariffs on U.S. companies.


The EU made the threat in reaction to Trump's announcement this week that the U.S. would impose tariffs of 25 percent on imported steel and 10 percent on imported aluminum. The governmental body is considering increasing tariffs on Harley-Davidson, bourbon and Levi's blue jeans, according to European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, who told Trump that two can play at "stupid (http://www.euronews.com/2018/03/03/juncker-responds-to-trump-s-trade-tariffs-we-can-also-do-stupid-)."


"We would like a reasonable relationship to the United States, but we cannot simply put our head in the sand," he added (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376577-trump-threatens-tax-on-eu-cars-over-tariff-retaliation).


Still, Trump is defending his decision.


Donald J. Trump
✔ @realDonaldTrump
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!
4:50 AM - Mar 2, 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/969525362580484098) .....snip~

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/03/03/trump-eu-n2457086


That's Right Trump.....when the EU talks shit. Give them some Right back. Just like the leftists in this country. They don't know how to handle that shit.

Ethereal
03-04-2018, 03:43 PM
Yea, let's escalate a trade war with one of our biggest trading partners so we can show the world how super tough and badass we are. That's a really good idea.

MMC
03-04-2018, 04:32 PM
Yea, let's escalate a trade war with one of our biggest trading partners so we can show the world how super tough and badass we are. That's a really good idea.


On their own, the tariffs appear unlikely to affect growth or inflation to a great degree, economists said. Mr. Trump’s tariffs “would by themselves have only a small macroeconomic impact,” said Mark Zandi, the chief economist at Moody’s Analytics and a vocal critic of Mr. Trump’s trade agenda during the campaign. Mr. Zandi said they were likely to add not quite 0.1 percentage points to inflation, which is currently hovering just under 2 percent, and to reduce economic growth by only a few hundredths of a percentage point.

What worries many economists, particularly on Wall Street, is the prospect that Mr. Trump is set to launch a broader trade war. The national security grounds he is invoking as rationale for the tariffs could provoke swift retaliation from trading partners such as Canada, which will be affected far more by the measures than China will.

The tariffs could also bring condemnation from the World Trade Organization — and a potentially dramatic showdown if the United States ignores rulings from the group, which has been marginalized by the Trump administration. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/10/business/wto-united-states-trade.html)

Other liberal economists caution that such a scenario remains unlikely. “I’d expect some counter-tariffs on our exports, maybe from China on food products” as a result of the tariffs, said Jared Bernstein, a former Obama administration economist who is now at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “You always hear trade war at these moments. That doesn’t mean that’s always wrong, but it usually is.”.....snip~


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/...a-trade-war-which-could-undermine-growth.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/us/politics/trump-embraces-a-trade-war-which-could-undermine-growth.html)



A lot of coulds, might, and maybes from the NY Slimes and its sources. Still they did manage a bit of truth.

Oh and there it is....the Economists on Wall Street are worrying about that Trump COULD launch a broader Trade War. Not that Trump is. But that he could. There is a possible prospect for that. http://www.debatepolitics.com/images/smilies/New_Smilies/think.gif

Scerab
03-04-2018, 08:32 PM
Wake up ye indoctrinated Murdoch zombies. Remember the terrible Bush,/Spit, trade tariffs? He had to back down because they were negatively impacting the United States of lobbyists...
of course, it’s clear who is behind these tariffs... the lobbyists of the steel industry.
this trade war is going to sting our economy and what makes this worse, is the bigot-in-chiefs callousness & childishness.

Tahuyaman
03-04-2018, 09:52 PM
Trump's threats of tariffs is a huge mistake. He needs to rethink that idea. No true conservative can support this.

MMC
03-05-2018, 07:53 AM
Trump's threats of tariffs is a huge mistake. He needs to rethink that idea. No true conservative can support this.


Not much was being said when Poppa Bush did the same thing. Although he didn't use national security as the reason why. He went with the legal format which is what the Euros prefer everybody to do. Naturally the Euros think they can dictate to others how they should come.

Still Bush did give exemptions.


There are conservatives that are for it. There are some that are not. Same with the Demos.


Although Navarro is a Demo in Trumps Administration, is the one that was pushing this. Kohn(sp?) Is totally against this. Also Trump, has been about this issue going back to the 90s. Oh and it was a campaign promise that he put out there.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:03 AM
Trump's threats of tariffs is a huge mistake. He needs to rethink that idea. No true conservative can support this.
Unless you know his plan how can you know a threat is a huge mistake?

"No true conservative"? No true Scottsman?

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:13 AM
Unless you know his plan how can you know a threat is a huge mistake?

"No true conservative"? No true Scottsman?

I don’t care what his plan is. These tariffs are a mistake. This is contrary to conservative ideas.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:16 AM
Not much was being said when Poppa Bush did the same thing. Although he didn't use national security as the reason why. He went with the legal format which is what the Euros prefer everybody to do. Naturally the Euros think they can dictate to others how they should come.

Still Bush did give exemptions.


There are conservatives that are for it. There are some that are not. Same with the Demos.


Although Navarro is a Demo in Trumps Administration, is the one that was pushing this. Kohn(sp?) Is totally against this. Also Trump, has been about this issue going back to the 90s. Oh and it was a campaign promise that he put out there.

Bush was convinced to abandon the idea.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 11:22 AM
I don’t care what his plan is. These tariffs are a mistake. This is contrary to conservative ideas.
Let's be nit-picky. So far President Trump has posed a credible threat of tariffs on steel and aluminum. The two nations most affected will be Canada and Mexico. Those two countries are in a very favorable position relative to us because of our poor, past dealmaking (NAFTA). We are renegotiating NAFTA. Hmm. I wonder if there is a connection?

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 12:17 PM
Let's be nit-picky. So far President Trump has posed a credible threat of tariffs on steel and aluminum. The two nations most affected will be Canada and Mexico. Those two countries are in a very favorable position relative to us because of our poor, past dealmaking (NAFTA). We are renegotiating NAFTA. Hmm. I wonder if there is a connection?

Do you support imposing higher taxes? Taxes which will end up being paid by consumers.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 12:33 PM
Do you support imposing higher taxes? Taxes which will end up being paid by consumers.
There you go, not paying attention again.

The Xl
03-05-2018, 12:51 PM
No fan of instigating trade wars, but some of these globalist countries/institutions need to be slapped around a bit.

pragmatic
03-05-2018, 01:20 PM
Let's be nit-picky. So far President Trump has posed a credible threat of tariffs on steel and aluminum. The two nations most affected will be Canada and Mexico. Those two countries are in a very favorable position relative to us because of our poor, past dealmaking (NAFTA). We are renegotiating NAFTA. Hmm. I wonder if there is a connection?


Interesting angle that i had never heard/thought of.

In general believe tariffs are a bad idea. But let's see how this plays out.

pragmatic
03-05-2018, 01:23 PM
Am curious why the US can't be competitive with Canada in the production of steel??


Anybody have an explanation for that one....

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:04 PM
Bush was convinced to abandon the idea.

Yeah.....2 years later.

Bo-4
03-05-2018, 02:14 PM
Please tell your Orange God to stop it - IMMEDIATELY

Reboot the Reality TeeVee assclown or something before he puts us into a global economic meltdown.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-trump-trade-war-20180305-story.html

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:19 PM
Please tell your Orange God to stop it - IMMEDIATELY

Reboot the Reality TeeVee assclown or something before he puts us into a global economic meltdown.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-trump-trade-war-20180305-story.html

Tell China to quit dumping defective steel, and we will think about it.

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 02:20 PM
I don’t care what his plan is. These tariffs are a mistake. This is contrary to conservative ideas.

Tariff and conservative? What has supporting a tariff got to do with political alignment?

I am an originalist and I say tax the shit out of imports! Kill the federal income tax.

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 02:21 PM
Am curious why the US can't be competitive with Canada in the production of steel??


Anybody have an explanation for that one....
Unions and regulation are part of it.

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 02:25 PM
But this is interesting! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-canada-industry/even-if-exempted-canada-steel-industry-sees-dumping-risk-idUSKCN1GE32B

Canada does not want the tariff because they fear cheap imports! Who is getting fucked right now? Hello! The US and they want us to keep getting fucked.

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:32 PM
Part 1.



The Chicken Littles Are Hammering Trump on Trade, but Charles Payne's Truth Bombs Blow Their Theories to Smithereens......



President Trump’s Thursday decision to begin the process of keeping his campaign promise to protect the American industrial base by imposing tariffs on imported steel and aluminum has seemingly gotten everyone in a tizzy, oddly uniting Big Business, top globalists, the IMF, the GOP Establishment and even liberal Democrats, all of whom never agree on anything yet are united that this particular decision will mean nothing short of an economic apocalypse for the United States.


Truly, to hear these folks tell it we’re looking at an economic scenario to rival the bleak hellscape of The Walking Dead, minus the zombies (unless you count liberals as zombies, which arguably wouldn’t be that far off).


Consider:


The American Chemistry Council, a group that represents some of the world’s largest corporations, including Procter & Gamble, 3M, DuPont and ExxonMobil, says (http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/04/news/economy/companies-respond-to-trump-tariffs/index.html) the tariffs will have “punishing” effects for the economy. Anheuser-Busch, the largest beer maker in world, said the plan would “put jobs at risk and would be against the US consumer.”


Columbia University’s Jeffrey Sachs writes (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/opinions/trump-tariff-move-shows-his-ignorance-sachs/index.html) on CNN.com of President Trump firing the first shot in a “delusional and destructive trade war,” and that “United States as a whole, and the world, could suffer enormously from Trump's reckless ignorance.” The Washington Post laments (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-finance-202/2018/03/02/the-finance-202-trump-tariffs-threaten-to-unleash-economic-chaos/5a9850b730fb047655a06a3c/?utm_term=.58b36ab3fba7) the “world-spanning economic consequences” of Trump’s decision. Forbes contributor Steven Hanke even called (https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevehanke/2018/03/02/trumps-tariffs-ive-seen-this-horror-show-before-reagans-terrible-trade-policies/#64e8163b7329) Commerce Secretary Wilber Ross not just a protectionist, but an “arch” protectionist, as if the “arch” is supposed to make him more like Dr. Evil.


Liberals, too, are in agreement. The folks at Vox (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/2/17072300/trump-tariffs-steel-aluminum-disaster) think Trump “decided to put the global economy at risk because he was in a pissy mood.”


Other nations are naturally piling on, but only because they see signs that their thus-far lucrative gravy train might be ending. Li Xinchuang, vice chairman of the China Iron and Steel Association, thinks (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/us/politics/trump-tariffs-steel-aluminum.html) Trump’s move is “stupid” and “does no good to everyone except a few American steel enterprises.”


Because really, if China doesn’t care about American steel enterprises, should anyone?


Canadians are also apoplectic, “flabbergasted (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/canada-top-exporter-of-steel-and-aluminum-to-us-flabbergasted-by-trumps-tariff-proposals/2018/03/02/7c906c2a-1e22-11e8-98f5-ceecfa8741b6_story.html?utm_term=.b8cda6869f2a)” even, at the prospect of American actually standing up for its own manufacturers.


And of course, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) warned (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43267520) the decision would not only hurt the United States, but other countries as well.


Because apparently the meaning of capitalism these days is for the United States to allow other countries to impose tariffs on its goods at will and never respond in kind to protect its own workers and industrial base.


Thankfully, Trump’s decision isn’t without its defenders in in the media, led of late by Fox Business host Charles Payne, who says he is not a “protectionist” but wants, like most people slandered with the term, fair trade for all. Lately, Payne has waged a heroic Twitter war (https://twitter.com/cvpayne) with those who would sacrifice America’s industrial base on the altar of globalism. As Payne brilliantly points out, despite the grim prognostications of those who seemingly know better, tariffs not only have worked for America in the past, but are currently working for our competitors now.....snip~


https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2018/03/05/the-chicken-littles-are-hammering-trump-on-trade-but-fox-business-host-charles-paynes-truth-bombs-blow-their-theories-to-smithereens-n2457591

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:37 PM
Part 2.....



“I know tariffs are bad but...” Payne tweeted (https://twitter.com/cvpayne/status/970340149069574146), “It seems to be working very well for the fastest growing economies in world.” The Fox Business host then listed several nations that employ tariffs and the 10 year average growth of each one.
Here are a few more truth bombs from Mr. Payne:


“Let's be clear (https://twitter.com/cvpayne/status/970344065060474881), the EU is against tariffs when America uses or considers them but they levy 10% on all US car imports we only have a 2.5% rate on their car imports. #justsaying”


“Currently (https://twitter.com/cvpayne/status/969940998666309632) there are certain nations that take advantage of our civility and commitment to rigid belief that "free trade" really exist when there are hundreds of active cases at the WTO at any given moment. China isn't going to risk $500 billion to protect cheap subsidized steel.”


As for a trade war and the prospect for higher prices, Payne isn’t too concerned.


“There will be no trade war,” writes (https://twitter.com/cvpayne/status/969588375916351493) Payne. “Sure, but who would China sell $505,597,100,000 stuff Americans bought from them last year? Cuba? China isn't going to do anything the new Emperor isn't going to risk toppling his fragile empire.”


Of the strong history of so-called “protectionist” policies, the venerable Pat Buchanan, who has been brilliant on this issue for decades, opines (http://buchanan.org/blog/whos-conservative-heretic-125260), “Under protectionist policies from 1865 to 1900, U.S. debt was cut by two-thirds. Customs duties provided 58 percent of revenue. Save for President Cleveland’s 2 percent tax, which was declared unconstitutional, there was no income tax. Commodity prices fell 58 percent. Real wages, despite a doubling of the population, rose 53 percent. Growth in GDP averaged over 4 percent a year. Industrial production rose almost 5 percent a year.”


So much for the "kooky" theory that trade protectionism equals economic disaster!


Payne promises (https://twitter.com/cvpayne/status/970342996720877569) to release a report early this week on the average tariffs for the fastest growing countries in the world. Will those who view the data still insist that America cannot possibly protect its industrial base and win economically?


In a piece (https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/07/made-in-america/534339/) last July arguing against Trump’s trade policies, even the Atlantic had to admit that “Many economists and industry experts agree that the United States faces unfair competition and artificially low prices that have damaged the domestic steel industry.”


“But they don’t agree that a tariff is the right approach for addressing the problem,” the piece continued, because tariffs “could backfire,” or something.....snip~

https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2018/03/05/the-chicken-littles-are-hammering-trump-on-trade-but-fox-business-host-charles-paynes-truth-bombs-blow-their-theories-to-smithereens-n2457591

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 02:40 PM
Part 2.....
As for a trade war and the prospect for higher prices, Payne isn’t too concerned.

...but, but, but...the Great Depression!

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:52 PM
...but, but, but...the Great Depression!

Seems the globalists are all up in arms and showing their true colors, huh?

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:57 PM
But this is interesting! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-canada-industry/even-if-exempted-canada-steel-industry-sees-dumping-risk-idUSKCN1GE32B

Canada does not want the tariff because they fear cheap imports! Who is getting fucked right now? Hello! The US and they want us to keep getting fucked.

Indeed....the Canucks and the Euros. They don't like their gravy train being affected, and fuck China!


https://media.giphy.com/media/l0IybYgZM9izvdsTm/giphy.gif

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 02:58 PM
I think most take issue with it because they were either screwing the US or the US was preventing them from being screwed by buying the dumped crap.

MMC
03-05-2018, 02:59 PM
I think most take issue with it because they were either screwing the US or the US was preventing them from being screwed by buying the dumped crap.

Let the Euros, Canada, and Russia take in all that defective steel. Let them build their military tech with that shit.

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 03:10 PM
NOTHING! Simply put. The US can be self supporting and that means the world can deal with it. What else can we do? Tax the world! The US will not defend any nation or shipping unless you freaking pay us! Damn the freeloaders!

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 05:27 PM
Tariff and conservative? What has supporting a tariff got to do with political alignment?

I am an originalist and I say tax the $#@! out of imports! Kill the federal income tax.

Right, let's start a trade war. They've always worked out so well in the past.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 05:28 PM
Yeah.....2 years later.

Because he discovered it was a bad idea.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 05:29 PM
Do you support imposing higher taxes? Taxes which will end up being paid by consumers.


There you go, not paying attention again.

There you go. Not providing an answer again.

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 05:31 PM
Right, let's start a trade war. They've always worked out so well in the past.

We have been in a damn trade war and getting our asses handed to us.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 05:56 PM
There you go. Not providing an answer again.
It is okay. Your non-answer won't be missed.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 08:27 PM
It is okay. Your non-answer won't be missed.
You’re a clown.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 08:27 PM
We have been in a damn trade war and getting our asses handed to us.

No.

Archer0915
03-05-2018, 09:02 PM
No.
Actually yes, but it has been one sided, no more.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 09:06 PM
You’re a clown.
Perhaps. But I am frequently right.

It is okay. Not everyone is up to thinking just a bit more deeply before commenting (over and over and over).

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:19 PM
Perhaps. But I am frequently right.

It is okay. Not everyone is up to thinking just a bit more deeply before commenting (over and over and over).

Sometimes you are partly correct on trivial details, but usually you are quite wrong on the main points.

Dr. Who
03-05-2018, 09:22 PM
Trump is focused strictly on manufacturing however NAFTA covers more than manufacturing. When you also consider services, the US has a trade surplus with Canada and a significantly lower trade deficit with Mexico. (https://globalnews.ca/news/3898843/trade-deficit-canada-us-donald-trump/) Those services that are being sold also employ people, possibly more people than the steel and aluminum industries.

As to steel, sales in steel slumped throughout North America after 2008. The real competition is not coming from NAFTA partners but from Europe and China. (https://www.oecd.org/industry/ind/45144151.pdf)

The real killers of the steel industry have been foreign markets that take scrapped automobiles and other steel products and recycle them. That's not NAFTA partners. It's Asia and in particular China, whose impact on the US market is currently about 4% but has significant over capacity. By slapping tariffs on NA producers and the EU, it is actually opening the door to China flooding the North American market with cheap recycled steel, which is going to be less expensive than anything produced in North America. Furthermore, in sparking a trade war, the only winner will be China, since a trade war would result in tariffs on US steel, which would then become uncompetitive abroad. Xi Jinping is undoubtedly laughing.

https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21721413-far-saving-jobs-it-will-destroy-them-protecting-american-steel-imports

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:22 PM
Actually yes, but it has been one sided, no more.
Free trade isn't a trade war. What Trump is proposing would ignite a trade war and the American consumer would pay the price for that. Plus it would be an obstacle to job growth overall.

These tarrifs are a horrible idea.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 09:22 PM
Sometimes you are partly correct on trivial details, but usually you are quite wrong on the main points.
Sure. Do you have an example?

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 09:23 PM
Free trade isn't a trade war. What Trump is proposing would ignite a trade war and the American consumer would pay the price for that. Plus it would be an obstacle to job growth overall.

These tarrifs are a horrible idea.
The threat of tariffs, however, isn't.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:24 PM
Sure. Do you have an example?


I'll point it out the next time it happens. You're not nearly as intelligent and informed as you think you are. You're one of those echo chamber types.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:26 PM
The threat of tariffs, however, isn't. Trump is advocating a policy which would place uneccessary obstacles in the path of our economic growth.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 09:27 PM
I'll point it out the next time it happens. You're not nearly as intelligent and informed as you think you are. You're one of those echo chamber types.
This makes me smile. I am not the one who listens to talk radio so I can rush here to make pronouncements as I if thought of them. You do so frequently. I laugh every time I catch you doing it.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 09:28 PM
Trump is advocating a policy which would place uneccessary obstacles in the path of our economic growth.
Or more likely President Trump is opening the imaginations of some countries unwilling to move on critical parts of the NAFTA agreement. We will know in a week or so.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:44 PM
Or more likely President Trump is opening the imaginations of some countries unwilling to move on critical parts of the NAFTA agreement. We will know in a week or so.


So, you think he really isn't advocating tarrifs? It's just a ploy? What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking?

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:45 PM
This makes me smile. I am not the one who listens to talk radio so I can rush here to make pronouncements as I if thought of them. You do so frequently. I laugh every time I catch you doing it.


You're a clown.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 09:46 PM
The threat of tariffs, however, isn't.

He's advocating a policy, not threatening. You're a kool-aid drinker.

Common Sense
03-05-2018, 09:53 PM
Trump's threat of tariffs is simply pandering to his base. I doubt he understands the ramifications.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:01 PM
So, you think he really isn't advocating tarrifs? It's just a ploy? What flavor Kool-aid are you drinking?
I have made that my argument from my first post (if I recall correctly).

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:02 PM
I am not the one who listens to talk radio so I can rush here to make pronouncements as I if thought of them. You do so frequently. I laugh every time I catch you doing it.

You're a clown.
Perhaps. I am still right.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:03 PM
The threat of tariffs, however, isn't.

He's advocating a policy, not threatening. You're a kool-aid drinker.
Your goofy statement makes me smile.

Dr. Who
03-05-2018, 10:04 PM
Or more likely President Trump is opening the imaginations of some countries unwilling to move on critical parts of the NAFTA agreement. We will know in a week or so.
No, he's not. He's doing exactly what he said he would do. It's not just NAFTA negotiation strategy. He's been advocating protectionism for years.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:07 PM
No, he's not. He's doing exactly what he said he would do. It's not just NAFTA negotiation strategy. He's been advocating protectionism for years.
We will know in a week or so.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 10:28 PM
The threat of tariffs, however, isn't.

Your goofy statement makes me smile.

You need a new line.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 10:29 PM
No, he's not. He's doing exactly what he said he would do. It's not just NAFTA negotiation strategy. He's been advocating protectionism for years.

Correct.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 10:30 PM
I am not the one who listens to talk radio so I can rush here to make pronouncements as I if thought of them. You do so frequently. I laugh every time I catch you doing it.

Perhaps. I am still right.

This is an example of where you are wrong. There will be more examples in the future.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:30 PM
You need a new line.
Why? The one I am using is correct.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:31 PM
This is an example of where you are wrong. There will be more examples in the future.
It won't take long for an example of you listening to Rush, then rushing here to make a pronouncement as if you thought of it. You have been doing it for years.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 10:32 PM
I have made that my argument from my first post (if I recall correctly).

You're an embarrassment. You have a lot in common with exo and Crepitus.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 10:33 PM
You're an embarrassment. You have a lot in common with exo and Crepitus.
The difference is I am right.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 10:38 PM
It won't take long for an example of you listening to Rush, then rushing here to make a pronouncement as if you thought of it. You have been doing it for years.

You're a clown.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 10:49 PM
I guess in the mind of some nit-wits, whenever someone comments on current events they are mimicking a radio host who comments on current events.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:10 PM
No, he's not. He's doing exactly what he said he would do. It's not just NAFTA negotiation strategy. He's been advocating protectionism for years.
These tariffs were one of his primary campaign promises. This isn’t something he just came up with as a ploy to influence our foreign trade partners. Hopefully, serious people will talk him out of this position.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 11:17 PM
I guess in the mind of some nit-wits, whenever someone comments on current events they are mimicking a radio host who comments on current events.
Especially when the words are the same...

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 11:18 PM
These tariffs were one of his primary campaign promises. This isn’t something he just came up with as a ploy to influence our foreign trade partners. Hopefully, serious people will talk him out of this position.
We will know in a week or so.

Dr. Who
03-05-2018, 11:25 PM
These tariffs were one of his primary campaign promises. This isn’t something he just came up with as a ploy to influence our foreign trade partners. Hopefully, serious people will talk him out of this position.

Indeed and this is why it's a bad idea:
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/95191-Trump-Tells-EU-to-Expect-New-Tax-After-Their-Tariff-Threat?p=2302573&viewfull=1#post2302573

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:33 PM
His own economic advisors are opposed to this. Hopefully he’ll listen to them.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:35 PM
Especially when the words are the same...

Words in the English language? You’re a joke. You bring discredit upon all conservatives.

Dr. Who
03-05-2018, 11:55 PM
His own economic advisors are opposed to this. Hopefully he’ll listen to them.

Listening is not his forte.

MisterVeritis
03-05-2018, 11:57 PM
Words in the English language? You’re a joke. You bring discredit upon all conservatives.
Right. Rush will spend ten minutes laying out a position. Then you magically pop up with the same position and formulation. It is okay. I enjoy laughing every time you do it. It beats having to think.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:58 PM
Listening is not his forte.


I don’t know about that. I think he listens to people who have proven themselves as being credible and competent. The media portrayal of him is not necessarily accurate.

Tahuyaman
03-05-2018, 11:58 PM
Right. Rush will spend ten minutes laying out a position. Then you magically pop up with the same position and formulation. It is okay. I enjoy laughing every time you do it. It beats having to think.

You’re a clown.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 12:00 AM
You’re a clown.
Haven't we been over this? Clown or not I am right.

And you are not.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 12:06 AM
Haven't we been over this? Clown or not I am right.

And you are not.

I’m right. You’re a clown. Please quit humping my leg.

Dr. Who
03-06-2018, 12:22 AM
I don’t know about that. I think he listens to people who have proven themselves as being credible and competent. The media portrayal of him is not necessarily accurate.

Long before he entered politics he wasn't listening to his advisors, who he paid for their expertise. It's his MO.

America will survive trade wars, it has before, but businesses that are not well capitalized will flounder and people will lose jobs. This has been tried before and failed. The world is a different place and Trump's narrative is a fantasy. The steel industry has floundered because of forces outside of America. Recycling steel is significantly cheaper than creating it from raw materials. Perhaps investing in recycling steel would be a much better plan of action.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 12:25 AM
Long before he entered politics he wasn't listening to his advisors, who he paid for their expertise. It's his MO.

America will survive trade wars, it has before, but businesses that are not well capitalized will flounder and people will lose jobs. This has been tried before and failed. The world is a different place and Trump's narrative is a fantasy. The steel industry has floundered because of forces outside of America. Recycling steel is significantly cheaper than creating it from raw materials. Perhaps investing in recycling steel would be a much better plan of action.

You don’t accomplish the things he’s accomplished without listening to others.

Dr. Who
03-06-2018, 12:46 AM
You don’t accomplish the things he’s accomplished without listening to others.
So, you enjoy the things that he manages to accomplish that you approve of and deplore those things you disagree with. Just keep in mind that before he was elected, he had as much political acumen as the average guy on the street.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 01:11 AM
So, you enjoy the things that he manages to accomplish that you approve of and deplore those things you disagree with. Just keep in mind that before he was elected, he had as much political acumen as the average guy on the street.

Yes, sometimes I disagree with him and sometimes I agree. I approve of the things I agree with and disapprove of the things I disagree with. What’s your point?

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 06:17 AM
You free traders take the cake! Free trade only works if the US deregulates. We can not have free trade that works for the US and it is not constitutional either. I am not saying that that it is unconstitutional but the tariff system is how the fed-gov was supposed to raise revenue.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 10:18 AM
How many times must the same failed ideas be repeated before people figure it out?

Tariffs are not "the way" government is supposed to raise revenues. It is a way, but just like any other form of taxation it can be counter productive.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 10:31 AM
How many times must the same failed ideas be repeated before people figure it out?

Tariffs are not "the way" government is supposed to raise revenues. It is a way, but just like any other form of taxation it can be counter productive.
There is a big picture! But talk to the founding fathers about your views.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 10:40 AM
I’m right. You’re a clown. Please quit humping my leg.
We will find out if you are right in a week or two.

I see you know as little about sex as you know about politics.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 10:42 AM
There is a big picture! But talk to the founding fathers about your views.

There is a big picture and Trump's policy on these tarrifs will hurt that big picture.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 10:43 AM
How many times must the same failed ideas be repeated before people figure it out?

Tariffs are not "the way" government is supposed to raise revenues. It is a way, but just like any other form of taxation it can be counter productive.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 10:45 AM
There is a big picture and Trump's policy on these tarrifs will hurt that big picture.

I have explained this thousands of times and even wrote a long lost paper on it.
Domestic production vs import!
One it creates a revenue stream from raw material extraction to manufacturing. We do not have that with imports.
That is at least 3 steps and each one has employees that pay taxes as well as the company paying. Those employees spend and it is taxed! Not only sales taxes but revenues for the retailer…
If we have more jobs there is less expenditure. Less welfare, lower EIC payments…
I can expand if you like but the fact is, if we make it here, revenues rise and expenditures should (we know the DC crowd will find a way to screw it up) fall.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:03 AM
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.


Right. Tariffs aren’t “the way” government raises revenues, but “a way”. The tariffs advocated by Trump on steel imports certainly isn’t uniform.

You just supported my position.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:04 AM
We will find out if you are right in a week or two.

I see you know as little about sex as you know about politics.

It has nothing to do with sex.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 11:05 AM
Right. Tariffs aren’t “the way” government raises revenues, but “a way”. The tariffs advocated by Trump on steel imports certainly isn’t uniform.
You just supported my position.
I suppose I may have if that is what you meant. In the beginning, they were the way. I am sure you knew that.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:29 AM
Even some people who call themselves a conservative can call for big government solutions.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 11:35 AM
Even some people who call themselves a conservative can call for big government solutions.
A tariff system is not big government, it is leveling the playing field until we can do away with the min wage and finish our conversion to a damn third world country.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:38 AM
A tariff system is not big government, it is leveling the playing field until we can do away with the min wage and finish our conversion to a damn third world country.
It is indeed a big government solution. It’s just a big government solution you like. I don’t know how you can deny that.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 11:40 AM
Even some people who call themselves a conservative can call for big government solutions.
I've not seen that here.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:43 AM
I've not seen that here.

Then you are either illiterate or in denial. The imposition of targeted tariffs is s big government solution. That’s why liberals generally support it.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 11:43 AM
Then you are either illiterate or in denial.
Do you have a link?

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 11:44 AM
It is indeed a big government solution. It’s just a big government solution you like. I don’t know how you can deny that.

Import duties are basic and an ancient concept. Not big government but an old school way to generate revenue.

So how about we do this! If your country will not impose regulations comparable to those the US has we will not trade with you.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:54 AM
Import duties are basic and an ancient concept. Not big government but an old school way to generate revenue.

So how about we do this! If your country will not impose regulations comparable to those the US has we will not trade with you.
Clearly some so called conservatives have no issue with big government when it suits them.

I’m consistent. I oppose this idea no matter. which party or president advocates this.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 12:03 PM
Clearly some so called conservatives have no issue with big government when it suits them.

I’m consistent. I oppose this idea no matter. which party or president advocates this.

Define BIG government? Big government is intruding into the home! Our lives! Trying to indoctrinate instead of educate. Taking our money and giving it to other countries.

Big government is not a simple tariff system that makes products of is own nation more competitive within that nation.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 12:06 PM
Define BIG government? Big government is intruding into the home! Our lives! Trying to indoctrinate instead of educate. Taking our money and giving it to other countries.
Yh
Big government is not a simple tariff system that makes products of is own nation more competitive within that nation.

Big government micro managing the free market. Some just support this micromanagement. They don’t want to admit it because they know it might appear to be somewhat of an hypocrisy on their part.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 12:12 PM
Big government micro managing the free market. Some just support this micromanagement. They don’t want to admit it because they know it might appear to be somewhat of an hypocrisy on their part.
The US can not compete like this because other countries, and it is fact not fiction, fuck us over. Free trade is not fair trade. We have a government for these exact reasons.

Free traders can go fuck themselves.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 12:13 PM
Most liberals / Democrats favor these tariffs, but in this case they don’t because they being proposed by Trump.

Most Republicans oppose these tariffs, but support them in this case because they are proposed by Trump.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 12:16 PM
The US can not compete like this because other countries, and it is fact not fiction, $#@! us over. Free trade is not fair trade. We have a government for these exact reasons.

Free traders can go $#@! themselves.

It’s good to see who is consistent in their views.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 12:46 PM
It’s good to see who is consistent in their views.

Always have been:) But thanks. And for the record I do a bit of direct business with China but I am looking into some US startups.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 12:52 PM
Still it’s incredible to see some saying that this isn’t an example of big government involvement into the free market.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 01:05 PM
Still it’s incredible to see some saying that this isn’t an example of big government involvement into the free market.
It can never be a free market where the US is concerned. I say this because it implies the US manufacturers can lower costs to compete with other countries. So until there is massive deregulation and the min wage laws go away we can not compete on a level playing field. If that were not enough we enforce regulations where our trading partners do not. Think trade with Asia mainland and India! Slave workers in India, China and much of Asia.

So how can there be free trade? Other countries fuck us daily.

By the way, it is not Big Government it is constitutional government.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 01:09 PM
Oh! about half of my products where I start off with a blank are 100% made in the USA! I get raw US made or grown materials and finish the work. It is hard as hell competing with BIG business. My advantage is capacityn capability and turn around time.

Archer0915
03-06-2018, 01:37 PM
https://pocketsense.com/united-states-government-funded-prior-income-tax-12769.html

Common Sense
03-06-2018, 01:57 PM
It’s good to see who is consistent in their views.

Like saying Trump is an idiot, then supporting him?

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 02:23 PM
Like saying Trump is an idiot, then supporting him?

who does that apply to? For me, I support or oppose policies and ideas based on the merits of those ideas, not who proposes them.

Some people will oppose ideas they have always supported because now Trump advocates that position.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 02:31 PM
Denying that the imposition of tariffs is not big government regulating the free market is silly.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 04:34 PM
Denying that the imposition of tariffs is not big government regulating the free market is silly.
A Constitutional body performing a Constitutional act is a strange way to look at what is or isn't "big" government.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 05:05 PM
A Constitutional body performing a Constitutional act is a strange way to look at what is or isn't "big" government.


The government has the constitutional authority to levy taxes, so in your mind government can never abuse or misuse that authority?

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 06:07 PM
The government has the constitutional authority to levy taxes, so in your mind government can never abuse or misuse that authority?
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 06:17 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

You are proving to as big of a hack as any liberal here. You will support a big government solution to an issue because the solution is proposed by Donald Trump.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 06:22 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

You are proving to as big of a hack as any liberal here. You will support a big government solution to an issue because the solution is proposed by Donald Trump.
I have not supported anything concerning tariffs. You are proving to have difficulty reading and comprehending. It isn't important.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 06:36 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

I have not supported anything concerning tariffs. You are proving to have difficulty reading and comprehending. It isn't important.
Lol. You are arguing with me about my opposition to these tariffs. Obviously you support it.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 07:47 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

I have not supported anything concerning tariffs. You are proving to have difficulty reading and comprehending. It isn't important.

Lol. You are arguing with me about my opposition to these tariffs. Obviously you support it.
I have come to realize you live in a Make Believe Land. You believe you speak for all Conservatives. You are barely familiar with the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. You make pronouncements all the time about things you are barely familiar with. And now you believe you know my opinion prior to my formulation of that opinion.

I have not had a reason to think deeply about tariffs nor about trade deals. I do not yet have an opinion about Trump's Tariffs. Because I have not thought deeply about the subject I have not thought it proper to offer a popular, and probably a wrong opinion. I leave that to you.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 08:27 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

I have not supported anything concerning tariffs. You are proving to have difficulty reading and comprehending. It isn't important.

I have come to realize you live in a Make Believe Land. You believe you speak for all Conservatives. You are barely familiar with the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. You make pronouncements all the time about things you are barely familiar with. And now you believe you know my opinion prior to my formulation of that opinion.

I have not had a reason to think deeply about tariffs nor about trade deals. I do not yet have an opinion about Trump's Tariffs. Because I have not thought deeply about the subject I have not thought it proper to offer a popular, and probably a wrong opinion. I leave that to you.


You are a clown. You're an embarrassment to the conservative movement.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 08:38 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

I have not supported anything concerning tariffs. You are proving to have difficulty reading and comprehending. It isn't important.

I have come to realize you live in a Make Believe Land. You believe you speak for all Conservatives. You are barely familiar with the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. You make pronouncements all the time about things you are barely familiar with. And now you believe you know my opinion prior to my formulation of that opinion.

I have not had a reason to think deeply about tariffs nor about trade deals. I do not yet have an opinion about Trump's Tariffs. Because I have not thought deeply about the subject I have not thought it proper to offer a popular, and probably a wrong opinion. I leave that to you.

You are a clown. You're an embarrassment to the conservative movement.
Uh-huh.

I am right.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 08:49 PM
The exercise of a constitutional authority isn't what makes big government big. It is the exercise of authority never granted.

I have not supported anything concerning tariffs. You are proving to have difficulty reading and comprehending. It isn't important.

I have come to realize you live in a Make Believe Land. You believe you speak for all Conservatives. You are barely familiar with the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. You make pronouncements all the time about things you are barely familiar with. And now you believe you know my opinion prior to my formulation of that opinion.

I have not had a reason to think deeply about tariffs nor about trade deals. I do not yet have an opinion about Trump's Tariffs. Because I have not thought deeply about the subject I have not thought it proper to offer a popular, and probably a wrong opinion. I leave that to you.

Uh-huh.

I am right.
Hacks like you ruin duscussion forums.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 09:52 PM
Hacks like you ruin duscussion forums.
I am not the one who calls everyone else either a hack or a clown.

You do.

Grow up.

Tahuyaman
03-06-2018, 11:02 PM
I am not the one who calls everyone else either a hack or a clown.

You do.

Grow up. You are a clown. Live with it. It’s who you are.

MisterVeritis
03-06-2018, 11:54 PM
You are a clown. Live with it. It’s who you are.
LOL. Clown. Hack. Clown. Partisan hack. It is your "go to" solution every time you fail.

Tahuyaman
03-07-2018, 12:51 AM
LOL. Clown. Hack. Clown. Partisan hack. It is your "go to" solution every time you fail.
Ok. From now on you’ll be a dip-shit.

MisterVeritis
03-08-2018, 12:51 PM
Let's be nit-picky. So far President Trump has posed a credible threat of tariffs on steel and aluminum. The two nations most affected will be Canada and Mexico. Those two countries are in a very favorable position relative to us because of our poor, past dealmaking (NAFTA). We are renegotiating NAFTA. Hmm. I wonder if there is a connection?
I am taking a break from a training course. I turned on Limbaugh. It appears, based on today's show that Limbaugh agrees with my view. I may be slightly ahead of my time. Now that Limbaugh agrees with me I expect Tahu to not only fall in line but tell all of us, in the most somber tones, that he knew it from the beginning.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I am a clown and am an embarrassment to true Conservatives.