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View Full Version : Connecticut school shooting: Westboro Baptist Church planning to picket



Captain Obvious
12-16-2012, 01:14 AM
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood....

http://www.examiner.com/article/connecticut-school-shooting-westboro-baptist-church-planning-to-picket


Westoboro Baptist Church is known for carrying signs that read “Thank God for dead babies” and the like. It is unknown what kind of signs will be seen, if the Westboro Baptist Church actually pickets in Newtown, CT.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 01:39 AM
How remarkably Christian of them. I wonder if Gov. Huckabee will join them, since he says the shooting occurred due to lack of God in schools lately.

Peter1469
12-16-2012, 01:56 AM
I doubt it. Huckabee's view is very different from the wakcos.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 02:00 AM
I doubt it. Huckabee's view is very different from the wakcos.

Are you saying that him claiming the death of 20 young (5-6 year old) children is the result of us booting religion out of schools is not a wacko thing to believe?

hanger4
12-16-2012, 02:05 AM
Are you saying that him claiming the death of 20 young (5-6 year old) children is the result of us booting religion out of schools is not a wacko thing to believe?

That's not exactly what he claimed GC;

"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"

Peter1469
12-16-2012, 02:08 AM
Are you saying that him claiming the death of 20 young (5-6 year old) children is the result of us booting religion out of schools is not a wacko thing to believe?

Huckabee meant that "what do you expect in a post Christian society/" We are returning to our barbarian roots. It has nothing to do with God's revenge. Can you see the difference?

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 02:12 AM
That's not exactly what he claimed GC;

"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"

Sorry for not quoting him verbatim, but I did not use quotes around my summary of what he said for a reason. Thanks very much for that though. It's funny how someone could think that the belief in "God" saves people from carnage and violence when the absurd belief in "God" is what caused The Holocaust, The Crusades, The Trail Of Tears, and many other executions due to the ridiculous excuse of "blasphemy."

Christianity kills people, and as far as I know it has never saved anyone.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 02:14 AM
Huckabee meant that "what do you expect in a post Christian society/" We are returning to our barbarian roots. It has nothing to do with God's revenge. Can you see the difference?

Christianity IS our barbaric roots. The above post shows that.
Care to share an example of Christianity saving someone's life as opposed to the millions of lives it has caused to be barbarically removed from the face of the earth?

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 02:20 AM
Aaaaaaanybody?

Peter1469
12-16-2012, 03:53 AM
Pre-Christian Europe was much more violent than Christian Europe. And it was a slow progression to modernity. As we sink deeper into a post-Christian age, expect to see women's rights disappear, the return of commonplace child exploitation, and shootings like we saw a few days ago. The pendulum swings back....

hanger4
12-16-2012, 07:22 AM
Sorry for not quoting him verbatim, but I did not use quotes around my summary of what he said for a reason. Thanks very much for that though. It's funny how someone could think that the belief in "God" saves people from carnage and violence when the absurd belief in "God" is what caused The Holocaust, The Crusades, The Trail Of Tears, and many other executions due to the ridiculous excuse of "blasphemy."


Christianity kills people, and as far as I know it has never saved anyone.


The believe in God doesn't save "people from carnage and violence" GC, mankind has freewill, carnage and violence has been with us since the begining of time, "in the name of" or totally unrelated to any god what so ever.


The saving part (by accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior) is from whatever perceived "hell" the admitted Christian believes in.


Plus GC, Christianity doesn't kill people, Christianity is a religion of peace, just read Christ's teaching. Unscrupulous people use "in the name of God" to further their agenda, much like guns don't kill people, people kill people. "in the name of God" is only a reason to justify evil intentions or rally more evil to the users cause.


People kill people GC, Christianity is but one of the infinite number of tools mankind so cunningly uses.


OK, I'm off my soap box now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 09:53 AM
Plus GC, Christianity doesn't kill people, Christianity is a religion of peace, just read Christ's teaching.

:biglaugh:
You don't really believe that bollocks, do you?

countryboy
12-16-2012, 10:13 AM
Sorry for not quoting him verbatim, but I did not use quotes around my summary of what he said for a reason. Thanks very much for that though. It's funny how someone could think that the belief in "God" saves people from carnage and violence when the absurd belief in "God" is what caused The Holocaust, The Crusades, The Trail Of Tears, and many other executions due to the ridiculous excuse of "blasphemy."

Christianity kills people, and as far as I know it has never saved anyone.

We already know you don't know much, no need to embarrass yourself on a public forum.

countryboy
12-16-2012, 10:14 AM
How remarkably Christian of them. I wonder if Gov. Huckabee will join them, since he says the shooting occurred due to lack of God in schools lately.

How remarkably liberal of you to bash Christianity once again. Pathetic.....

You are the atheist version of Phred Phelps.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 10:34 AM
We already know you don't know much, no need to embarrass yourself on a public forum.

Care to enlighten me as to where I said something wrong?

I'll wait.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 10:58 AM
:biglaugh:
You don't really believe that bollocks, do you?

Sure I do GC.

I implore you to show me any of Christ's teachings that encourage violence toward your fellow man !!

Captain Obvious
12-16-2012, 11:07 AM
Christians do and have done some un-Christian things just like Muslims have done some un-Islamic things.

Doesn't make both Christianity or Islam evil.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:10 AM
Sure I do GC.

I implore you to show me any of Christ's teachings that encourage violence toward your fellow man !!

Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:12 AM
Christians do and have done some un-Christian things just like Muslims have done some un-Islamic things.

Doesn't make both Christianity or Islam evil.

All Religions are inherently evil. The very nature and purpose of Religion is to divide and create death to those of other Religions.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

And where in that verse, or the entire Chapter 3 of Acts (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+3&version=ESV), does it implore mankind to commit acts of violence toward mankind ??

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:26 AM
And where in that verse, or the entire Chapter 3 of Acts (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+3&version=ESV), does it implore mankind to commit acts of violence toward mankind ??

You're not really that naive, are you?

That verse is CLEARLY talking about people who are Christians exterminating those who are not Christians:

"Shall be destroyed" means properly "to exterminate, wholly to devote to ruin," as of a wicked people, a wicked man whose life is taken.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 11:27 AM
All Religions are inherently evil. The very nature and purpose of Religion is to divide and create death to those of other Religions.

I can't speak for all religions, but Christianity does not. Man does use Christianity "to divide and create death", but that's man, not the teachings of Christ.

countryboy
12-16-2012, 11:30 AM
I can't speak for all religions, but Christianity does not. Man does use Christianity "to divide and create death", but that's man, not the teachings of Christ.
You're wasting your time with this troll. :wink:

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:31 AM
I can't speak for all religions, but Christianity does not. Man does use Christianity "to divide and create death", but that's man, not the teachings of Christ.

I am eager to show you through the example bible verse I have posted and given meaning to that you are wrong. The teachings of Christ (which is the entire bible, according to Christians, who believe that the bible was written by God and the holy trinity of father, son and ghost are all one in the same) do call upon you to exterminate any fellow peoples who do not accept the word of Christ as law.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 11:32 AM
You're not really that naive, are you?

That verse is CLEARLY talking about people who are Christians exterminating those who are not Christians:

"Shall be destroyed" means properly "to exterminate, wholly to devote to ruin," as of a wicked people, a wicked man whose life is taken.

No it's not, it's CLEARLY speaking of mans SOUL being lost that is without the acceptance of JC as Lord and Savior.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:32 AM
Dismiss me as a troll if you wish, but I do believe hanger4 is trying to have an intelligent debate, cuntryboy.

Why don't you let him, since you're so obviously incapable of doing so?

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:33 AM
No it's not, it's CLEARLY speaking of mans SOUL being lost that is without the acceptance of JC as Lord and Savior.

Why don't you show me how this is what that means?

hanger4
12-16-2012, 11:35 AM
I am eager to show you through the example bible verse I have posted and given meaning to that you are wrong. The teachings of Christ (which is the entire bible, according to Christians, who believe that the bible was written by God and the holy trinity of father, son and ghost are all one in the same) do call upon you to exterminate any fellow peoples who do not accept the word of Christ as law.

The teachings of Christ are only New Testament.

And NOWHERE is it written about exterminating any fellow peoples who do not accept the word of Christ as law

hanger4
12-16-2012, 11:37 AM
Why don't you show me how this is what that means?

For starters, mankind can lose his soul and not his life.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:39 AM
The teachings of Christ are only New Testament.

And NOWHERE is it written about exterminating any fellow peoples who do not accept the word of Christ as law

Acts is part of the New Testament. I have provided meaning to the verse I gave, a coherent translation, and anyone will tell you what I said is how the verse is written. Now, you can say that it's meaning is not to be taken literal or whatever helps you sleep at night, but trust me, what I said is a lot closer than what you said about mans soul being lost or whatever.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:40 AM
For starters, mankind can lose his soul and not his life.

Destroy, not lose.

Mister D
12-16-2012, 11:50 AM
Acts 3:23 is about judgment and an appeal to the Jews to turn to Christ which is obvious when it's placed in context. There is nothing more amusing than atheist exegesis.

---

11 While the man held on to Peter and John, all the people were astonished and came running to them in the place called Solomon’s Colonnade. 12 When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Fellow Israelites, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. 14 You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. 15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. 16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see.
17 “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-27020a)]
24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-27022b)] 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Peter1469
12-16-2012, 11:51 AM
Pre-Christian Europe was much more violent than Christian Europe. And it was a slow progression to modernity. As we sink deeper into a post-Christian age, expect to see women's rights disappear, the return of commonplace child exploitation, and shootings like we saw a few days ago. The pendulum swings back....

bump

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 11:53 AM
bump

We're having a debate here, Pete.

Peter1469
12-16-2012, 11:58 AM
I know. :smiley:

hanger4
12-16-2012, 12:05 PM
Acts is part of the New Testament. I have provided meaning to the verse I gave, a coherent translation, and anyone will tell you what I said is how the verse is written. Now, you can say that it's meaning is not to be taken literal or whatever helps you sleep at night, but trust me, what I said is a lot closer than what you said about mans soul being lost or whatever.


Firstly, don't confuse mans soul with mans life. The destruction of the soul is a spiritual and eternal destruction, this is what's being threatened for ignoring the prophet/Christ.

BTW, Mister D's post was on mark also.

Mister D
12-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Firstly, don't confuse mans soul with mans life. The destruction of the soul is a spiritual and eternal destruction, this is what's being threatened for ignoring the prophet/Christ.

BTW, Mister D's post was on mark also.

Thanks and you're exactly right. The passage in question is about judgment and redemption. That's obvious.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Firstly, don't confuse mans soul with mans life. The destruction of the soul is a spiritual and eternal destruction, this is what's being threatened for ignoring the prophet/Christ.

Now you're telling me God is an advocate for men punishing each other with damnation. "From among the people" does not mean God is doing these acts, it's other humans just like you and me.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 12:13 PM
Also I have Mister Denial on ignore. I don't like his methods of patronization.

Chris
12-16-2012, 12:17 PM
None of this has to do with Christianity or lack thereof, especially not Phelps and the WBC.

The shooter likely suffered a psychological problem.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 12:25 PM
None of this has to do with Christianity or lack thereof, especially not Phelps and the WBC.

On the contrary, Phelps and the WBC are the most extreme Christians the earth has seen since the suicidal cults of the 20th Century. Whoever wrote the bible (God, if you believe that) would be proud, since WBC practices the most literal bible-to-reality translation of any church in current times.


The shooter likely suffered a psychological problem.

I think everybody knows this, Chris.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 12:32 PM
Now you're telling me God is an advocate for men punishing each other with damnation. "From among the people" does not mean God is doing these acts, it's other humans just like you and me.

Acts 3 is about some of Peters acts, he healed a begger and those that saw were "astonished and came running to them" (Peter and John). Peter then speaks of the prophecy of JC and uses Moses's words to admonish them to seek Christ so as to save their SOULS. "cut off from their people" simply means their soul will be lost not there life as we/they know it.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 12:33 PM
Acts 3 is about some of Peters acts, he healed a begger and those that saw were "astonished and came running to them" (Peter and John). Peter then speaks of the prophecy of JC and uses Moses's words to admonish them to seek Christ so as to save their SOULS. "cut off from their people" simply means their soul will be lost not there life as we/they know it.

Not sure about the other stuff, but "cut off from their people" would be talking about exile.

Where do you see mention of "cut off from their people"?

hanger4
12-16-2012, 12:36 PM
On the contrary, Phelps and the WBC are the most extreme Christians the earth has seen since the suicidal cults of the 20th Century. Whoever wrote the bible (God, if you believe that) would be proud, since WBC practices the most literal bible-to-reality translation of any church in current times.

OH I disagree, Phelps and the WBC are no more Christian than you are, nothing personal. They are no more than men/women that pick and choose bible passages to suit their agenda.

Chris
12-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Christians do and have done some un-Christian things just like Muslims have done some un-Islamic things.

Doesn't make both Christianity or Islam evil.

Agree.

It's usually in the name of religion, the politicization of religion, that evil is done.

It's in that sense Phelps and his gang are evil, even if all they do is express it.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 12:43 PM
OH I disagree, Phelps and the WBC are no more Christian than you are, nothing personal.

There would be no bigger compliment, I do try to keep as far away from the fraud of Religion as I can. I would say that I am just as non-Christian as they are Christian, but apparently your feelings on their level of Christianity differs from mine.


They are no more than men/women that pick and choose bible passages to suit their agenda.

You asked for evidence, I provided. I could be really cruel in this debate, but I'm not that kind of person.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 12:44 PM
Not sure about the other stuff, but "cut off from their people" would be talking about exile.

Where do you see mention of "cut off from their people"?

Various translations, "cut off from their people"is the NIV (New International Version) still the passage is speaking of ones soul not ones life.

If ya like, at this link, http://www.biblegateway.com/ you can type in the verse of your choice and read it in many, many translations.

Greek would be optimal since that's what the NT was originally penned in.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 12:50 PM
Various translations, "cut off from their people"is the NIV (New International Version) still the passage is speaking of ones soul not ones life.

If ya like, at this link, http://www.biblegateway.com/ you can type in the verse of your choice and read it in many, many translations.

Greek would be optimal since that's what the NT was originally penned in.

Wouldn't that still be talking about damnation, then?

hanger4
12-16-2012, 01:00 PM
There would be no bigger compliment,

Tell ya truth GC, I'll defend your right to bash Christianity long before I'd defend WBC right to prothletise.


I do try to keep as far away from the fraud of Religion as I can. I would say that I am just as non-Christian as they are Christian, but apparently your feelings on their level of Christianity differs from mine.

OH not really, I think they suc.


You asked for evidence, I provided. I could be really cruel in this debate, but I'm not that kind of person.

What I see is only your confusion with mans soul as opposed to mans life.

BTW I only evangelize to those that ask. In my world all know of the Bible, God and Jesus so I don't push. I figure they'll ask if they want to know more, no reason to push for fear pushing them away.

hanger4
12-16-2012, 01:12 PM
Wouldn't that still be talking about damnation, then?

Of course, but not a physical destruction as in war or execution or some other death.

Now before you jump on the damnation perspective let me say that if you don't believe then the damnation part is irrelevant meaning it means nothing.

I, on the other hand, don't believe in eternal damnation, just that your dead, void, nothingness, but by accepting JC you can live forever and know true peace and contentment not mans version of it.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 01:15 PM
Tell ya truth GC, I'll defend your right to bash Christianity long before I'd defend WBC right to prothletise.

Not bashing anymore. I'm just happy to have someone practical enough to have a debate. It's nice, for a change.


OH not really, I think they suck.

I think everyone except for them thinks that they suck. They make not only Christianity look worse than it is, but America as a whole. IMHO they should all be executed, but that's not really up for discussion. :undecided:


What I see is only your confusion with mans soul as opposed to mans life.

Cutting a man's soul off from the people would be talking about damnation, would it not?


BTW I only evangelize to those that ask. In my world all know of the Bible, God and Jesus so I don't push. I figure they'll ask if they want to know more, no reason to push for fear pushing them away.

Every Christian could learn a lot from you.

GrassrootsConservative
12-16-2012, 01:17 PM
Of course, but not a physical destruction as in war or execution or some other death.

Now before you jump on the damnation perspective let me say that if you don't believe then the damnation part is irrelevant meaning it means nothing.

I, on the other hand, don't believe in eternal damnation, just that your dead, void, nothingness, but by accepting JC you can live forever and know true peace and contentment not mans version of it.

But wouldn't even the idea of damnation go against most of Christ's other teachings?

hanger4
12-16-2012, 01:50 PM
But wouldn't even the idea of damnation go against most of Christ's other teachings?

In the sense that one believes eternal damnation means pain and suffering, yes I totally believe it goes against most of his other teachings.

If, assuming Christ is real, and judgement day comes, rather it's immediate or whenever and you stand before Christ you now know fersur he's the real deal.

Seems kind a wrong to do the eternal suffering part cause ya defiantly believe now. I believe God is loving and loving just can't inflict eternal pain.

To eliminate the soul, nothingness, void, as if it never was, no pain no joy no nothing seems more like the loving and compassionate God I believe in.