New Drudge Poll Overwhelmingly Supports Firing Mueller.....

[MMC]

The Drudge Report, the prolific news aggregation website ran by Matt Drudge, has a new poll (https://polldaddy.com/poll/9962275/?view=results)that shows its audience favors firing special counsel Robert Mueller and the results are not even close.


Currently, 266,943 voters support firing Robert Mueller where as 77,000 voters are against his firing. While the poll cannot be counted as a scientific poll of the general public, it is helpful in gauging where President Donald Trump's base and many conservatives stand on the issue.


Drudge's polling in the past was an early indicator of who the GOP Presidential nominee was going to be. For example after a September 2015 GOP primary poll, his audience supported Trump with 61% saying that he won the debate. From The Washington Examiner (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-is-runaway-favorite-in-drudge-poll/article/2572284):


Drudge's poll today comes at a time when GOP senators such as Marco Rubio and and Lindsey Graham have condemned the potential firing Robert Mueller......snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2018/03/18/new-drudge-poll-overwhelmingly-supports-firing-mueller-n2462144



Even some independents see the Mueller Investigation as a sham. The Demos want to get back at the Repubs with impeachment. Since that is what happened to their Deviate Bilbo Clinton.


Want Mueller gone.....appoint the 2nd Special Counsel, telling him he has the Right to investigate Mueller. Then when he discovers Mueller has evidence and knows some Demos have lied under Oath. Like Hillary and has done nothing to bring them to Justice. Then send Mueller packing as a Disgrace to the Nation.

[Grokmaster]

The glaring bias and corruption of the Witch Hunt, and all aspects leading up to it...are now BLATANT.


Enough is enough.

[MMC]

The glaring bias and corruption of the Witch Hunt, and all aspects leading up to it...are now BLATANT.


Enough is enough.

Mueller is a tool.....and tools can be broken. All of this lead back to one person. The one that was the first to call Trump a traitor and then Repubs traitors.

That is Ma Barker and her Crime Family. Take down Ma Barker and all of this goes away.....real fast like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovYnLL9Yow

[Grokmaster]

Mueller is a tool.....and tools can be broken. All of this lead back to one person. The one that was the first to call Trump a traitor and then Repubs traitors.

That is Ma Barker and her Crime Family. Take down Ma Barker and all of this goes away.....real fast like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovYnLL9Yow

And let's not forget the enabler:

23052

[MMC]

And let's not forget the enabler:

23052


Get the Goods on the Peep.....and the Demos will gladly give up Hillary! Not to mention the Peep will sell her out in less than a heartbeat.

[MMC]

Drudge should now poll any Establish Repubs still sticking up for Mueller. Like Graham, Ryan, Rubio. Then ask them how do they feel now knowing that 20 some Repubs want Mueller removed.


They should be asked why do they want to play patsy for the left.

[Standing Wolf]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.

[MisterVeritis]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.
Mueller is a corrupt individual leading a corrupt investigation based on fraud and lies. Who wouldn't be afraid of someone with unlimited time and budget who may seek out wrongdoing with no pretense of relevance? Mueller has ruined lives simply because he can. It is time to end his investigation and investigate his actions.

[MMC]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.

:rollseyes:

Evidenced by Republicans who Mueller isn't even investigating, huh? There goes that theory.....Right out the window.


http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/c17e96a/2147483647/resize/652x>/quality/85/?url=%2Fcmsmedia%2F0c%2Ffcccde1375cfbfb1912606bca7 56e6%2F47682Widemodern_Brennan_130924.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/William+Webster+QEQyd5Pe0wtm.jpg
http://www.worldtribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/muellclapbren.jpg

[Grokmaster]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.

Yeah, we should support the efforts of a glaringly corrupt, politically-motivated Witch Hunt, based on lies and seditious conspiracy.

[Common]

Mueller, Comey, Clapper, McCabe, Brennan were all in a huddle to bail out hilary and go after trump.

[Tahuyaman]

I give no credibility to a poll posted on the Drudge report. I remember back during the Republican debates they ran a poll about who won each debate. They opened the poll hours before the debates started. Trump was ahead by 70'p points before the debates kicked off. He even won the debate he didn't participate in.


The Drudge Report is great for getting access to all the sources of media world wide, but that's all.

[Ransom]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.
How much of his 'work' would you be aware of? And would you support a second special counsel to investigate/replace this one? If Muller has evidence, he can hand it over, we replace the current team with actual prosecutors and press charges on whatever Mueller's evidence warrants.

[MMC]

Mueller, Comey, Clapper, McCabe, Brennan were all in a huddle to bail out hilary and go after trump.

Add in Strzok and Lisa Page. Bruce Ohr and his Wife. They all conspired to do what they can to bail out Hillary, help Hillary while she was running for the Presidency, and then colluded with each other to go after Trump. After the election.


The Demos cannot be allowed to get away with it. As it wont stop here. Next Repub they don't like will have the same done to him or her.

[Grokmaster]

Mueller, Comey, Clapper, McCabe, Brennan were all in a huddle to bail out hilary and go after trump.
Which only a complete idiot or total liar could deny, at this point...

[Grokmaster]

Add in Strzok and Lisa Page. Bruce Ohr and his Wife. They all conspired to do what they can to bail out Hillary, help Hillary while she was running for the Presidency, and then colluded with each other to go after Trump. After the election.


The Demos cannot be allowed to get away with it. As it wont stop here. Next Repub they don't like will have the same done to him or her.

And probably even a FISA curt judge, as well, Rudolph Contreras.
A seditious conspiracy...plain and simple.

[MMC]

And probably even a FISA curt judge, as well, Rudolph Contreras.
A seditious conspiracy...plain and simple.

Which says nothing about the Demos openly advocating to a resistance/rebellion. Nor States ran by Demos. Nor Circuit Court and Appellate Court Judges that are Democrats.

Its time we end their game.

[Mini Me]

"Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection'
Send my credentials to the House of Detention"

I've got some friends inside

[Common]

The drudge poll means nothing its not a formal poll and it wouldnt matter what they american people said in a poll it would change nothing. Especially if the majority said fire mueller.

[Standing Wolf]

If Mueller is fired, two things will happen. First, the "Resistance" heretofore in evidence will seem like a calm chat in the park by comparison with the ensuing sh*tstorm; and second, the time remaining in the Trump presidency will be reduced from years to months.

[Common]

If Mueller is fired, two things will happen. First, the "Resistance" heretofore in evidence will seem like a calm chat in the park by comparison with the ensuing sh*tstorm; and second, the time remaining in the Trump presidency will be reduced from years to months.
You "quote" claimed that Trumps presidency wouldnt last 6 months. The resistances shit storm is only important to those that listen to it, half the country does not and thinks they are all wankers.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't think firing Meuller would lead to the constitutional crisis some claim. It would lead to more hyper partisan skreeching.


The justification for the investigation was the accusation of Trump / Russia collusion. After a year, no evidence has been uncovered which supports that. Now the investigation seems to have gone far afield of its original purpose. There's no reason he should be investigating business practices from a decade ago. This does feed the idea that it is a proverbial witch hunt.


At some point Meuller needs to either get it back on track where it should be or shut it down if there's no evidence to sustain the original purpose.


I think Meuller knows his appointment and investigation was based on a false premise. He just can't figure out how to get out of this and maintain his supposed clean non partisan reputation.

[Cletus]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.

I think more people are disgusted by him than afraid of him.

[The Xl]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.
What's more frightening is that people in high places, like Mueller, can make shit up for the purpose of attempting to end someone he's opposed to politically, and that some people will eat it all up without question.

[Standing Wolf]

I think more people are disgusted by him than afraid of him.

People are "disgusted" by Mueller not because of anything he has actually said or done, but solely because he is investigating their hero...and because he is routinely insulted and vilified by the Tweeter-in-Chief. It is a simple case of shoot the messenger.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.dHcqUSo_KJ5v7sS_zpjJdgHaFG&pid=Api

[MisterVeritis]

What's more frightening is that people in high places, like Mueller, can make shit up for the purpose of attempting to end someone he's opposed to politically, and that some people will eat it all up without question.
Hmmm. It almost sounds like a coup attempt.

[MMC]

"Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection'
Send my credentials to the House of Detention"

I've got some friends inside

California?

[MMC]

People are "disgusted" by Mueller not because of anything he has actually said or done, but solely because he is investigating their hero...and because he is routinely insulted and vilified by the Tweeter-in-Chief. It is a simple case of shoot the messenger.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.dHcqUSo_KJ5v7sS_zpjJdgHaFG&pid=Api

Yeah not looking into why Debbie Wasserman Schultz the head of the DNC wouldn't let the FBI check out their computers after the Russians hacked the DNC and DCCC, while looking into Russian meddling shows that. Or coming up with nothing after looking at the Podestas for their not filing under the FRA while taking Russian money. Puts that all into perspective.

[Ransom]

People are "disgusted" by Mueller not because of anything he has actually said or done, but solely because he is investigating their hero...and because he is routinely insulted and vilified by the Tweeter-in-Chief. It is a simple case of shoot the messenger.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.dHcqUSo_KJ5v7sS_zpjJdgHaFG&pid=Api
Is it. If the messenger stands there.........if his staff leaked the message on the way making it irrelevant. If it's caused political hacks to disintegrate and make false accusations.....then everyone gets upset concerning the messenger. This one has no message. This messenger's 'message' has been guessed at, twisted.....look to the thread I'm in where they're all hysterical because it's 'reported' that the messenger has someone's notes.

There is no messenger. Your analogy failed.

[Nicole]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.

So true. Where there is worry, there is something to worry about. Innocent people, don't sweat.

[Grokmaster]

So true. Where there is worry, there is something to worry about. Innocent people, don't sweat.

They sure as hell do when they are falsely accused and persecuted.

[Tahuyaman]

So true. Where there is worry, there is something to worry about. Innocent people, don't sweat.

If government has targeted you and you are indeed innocent, you'd be an idiot to just sit back and let it happen as it happens. No matter who you are.

[Nicole]

What's more frightening is that people in high places, like Mueller, can make $#@! up for the purpose of attempting to end someone he's opposed to politically, and that some people will eat it all up without question.

Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.

[Grokmaster]

Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.
Name one that has anything to do with "Russian Collusion" in the 2016 election. Mueller is on a Witch Hunt/Fishing Expedition...

[Nicole]

If government has targeted you and you are indeed innocent, you'd be an idiot to just sit back and let it happen as it happens. No matter who you are.

You'd be a bigger idiot to give confessional interviews and tweet like Trump. Trey Gowdy said it best this weekend, "If your not guilty, stop acting guilty".

[Tahuyaman]

Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.
Yep those indictments of foreign nationals who will never see the inside of an American court room are piling up.

[Tahuyaman]

You'd be a bigger idiot to give confessional interviews and tweet like Trump. Trey Gowdy said it best this weekend, "If your not guilty, stop acting guilty".


Heavy sigh.....

[Grokmaster]

You'd be a bigger idiot to give confessional interviews and tweet like Trump. Trey Gowdy said it best this weekend, "If your not guilty, stop acting guilty".

He was talking about Trump's attorney.

[Common]

Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.

None of those indictments and they are not piling up are about russian collusion and trump. This investigation is going on well over a year.

With all the revelations and facts about collusion to protect hillary and get trump from Brennan, Clapper, Comey and McCabe is more than enough to stop this witch hunt

[Nicole]

Name one that has anything to do with "Russian Collusion" in the 2016 election. Mueller is on a Witch Hunt/Fishing Expedition...
Is Mueller done? Has he issued his final report? I'll save you the key strokes. No and no. Neither you nor I know all of Mueller has.

[Nicole]

They sure as hell do when they are falsely accused and persecuted.

You don't know what Trump will be accused/charged with. No one outside of Mueller's investigation does. You are therefore unqualified to judge if he will be falsely accused or is being persecuted. Trump, on the other hand, does know what he's done and apparently, he's worried. So worried, he wants to fire Mueller.

[Nicole]

Yep those indictments of foreign nationals who will never see the inside of an American court room are piling up.

I was unaware that Manafort, Gates, Flynn, Papadopolous et al.. were foreign nationals. Hmmm.

[Common]

You don't know what Trump will be accused/charged with. No one outside of Mueller's investigation does. You are therefore unqualified to judge if he will be falsely accused or is being persecuted. Trump, on the other hand, does know what he's done and apparently, he's worried. So worried, he wants to fire Mueller.
I can judge what I know and its 14 months of mindless investigation by a team that is made up of hardcare democrats.
Its a fact that the FBI was involved in manipulating the steel dossier to try and get trump.

After 14 months of congressional hearings and intel committee investigations and mueller they have nothing on trump.

[Nicole]

He was talking about Trump's attorney.
Doesn't look like he was:


If government has targeted you and you are indeed innocent, you'd be an idiot to just sit back and let it happen as it happens. No matter who you are.

[Grokmaster]

I was unaware that Manafort, Gates, Flynn, Papadopolous et al.. were foreign nationals. Hmmm.

So now please specify which of their indictments = Russian Collusion in the 2016 Presidential election.

[Nicole]

None of those indictments and they are not piling up are about russian collusion and trump. This investigation is going on well over a year.
With all the revelations and facts about collusion to protect hillary and get trump from Brennan, Clapper, Comey and McCabe is more than enough to stop this witch hunt

One more time for you now. Has Mueller completed his investigation? Has he issued his final report? No and no. None of us know what Mueller and his team know or are heading for. In the meantime, whatever illegal actions he comes across while he's investigating, are fair game. As the letter empowering Mueller states.

[Nicole]

I can judge what I know and its 14 months of mindless investigation by a team that is made up of hardcare democrats.
Its a fact that the FBI was involved in manipulating the steel dossier to try and get trump.

After 14 months of congressional hearings and intel committee investigations and mueller they have nothing on trump.

Really. You can judge without reviewing the evidence? Are you damned psychic or something?

No, you aren't and you are not a credible judge of what illegal hijinx Trump and his campaign may or may not have done.

[Nicole]

So now please specify which of their indictments = Russian Collusion in the 2016 Presidential election.

For the third time. Is the Mueller investigation over? Has he submitted his final report? No and no. Only Mueller and his team know what they have. Neither you nor I know what they know.

[Common]

One more time for you now. Has Mueller completed his investigation? Has he issued his final report? No and no. None of us know what Mueller and his team know or are heading for. In the meantime, whatever illegal actions he comes across while he's investigating, are fair game. As the letter empowering Mueller states.
Listen Nicole one more time for you, investigations should not go on endlessly unless NEW information comes out that dictates that. Anyone can carry out a never ending investigation and come up with a tidbit to put on someone.

Dont try to use Starr investigation of clinton as an excuse starr was continuously getting new information and had MANY first hand witness accts. Mueller has demonstrated he has nothing, the intel committee says he has nothing, Diane Feinstein says he has nothing, adam schiff who hates trump cant say he has anything

Its been a setup from day one to try and distract trump from his agenda and it was orchestrated by our snake in chief Obama, who for 8 long years ignored the russians and let them do whatever it was they wanted, including hack the country

[Tahuyaman]

I was unaware that Manafort, Gates, Flynn, Papadopolous et al.. were foreign nationals. Hmmm.. Some of those look like they may be thrown out and none have anything to do with collision between Russia and Trump. I know that difficult for you to come to terms with, but that’s the way it is.

[MisterVeritis]

Listen Nicole one more time for you, investigations should not go on endlessly unless NEW information comes out that dictates that. Anyone can carry out a never ending investigation and come up with a tidbit to put on someone.

Dont try to use Starr investigation of clinton as an excuse starr was continuously getting new information and had MANY first hand witness accts. Mueller has demonstrated he has nothing, the intel committee says he has nothing, Diane Feinstein says he has nothing, adam schiff who hates trump cant say he has anything

Its been a setup from day one to try and distract trump from his agenda and it was orchestrated by our snake in chief Obama, who for 8 long years ignored the russians and let them do whatever it was they wanted, including hack the country
In many ways, this so-called investigation looks like a continuation of the coup attempt.

[Grokmaster]

There is no need to fire Mueller, as the Witch Hunt is already collapsing under the weight of its bias ,and failure to come even remotely close to its original intent.

Americans have had enough of the bullshit.

[Grokmaster]

For the third time. Is the Mueller investigation over? Has he submitted his final report? No and no. Only Mueller and his team know what they have. Neither you nor I know what they know.
Mueller does not to get to flail around indefinitely, until he gets SOMETHING/ANYTHING on Pres.Trump. His probe has SPECIFIC GUIDELINES, which he is clearly stepping outside of.

[Nicole]

Listen Nicole one more time for you, investigations should not go on endlessly unless NEW information comes out that dictates that. Anyone can carry out a never ending investigation and come up with a tidbit to put on someone.

Dont try to use Starr investigation of clinton as an excuse starr was continuously getting new information and had MANY first hand witness accts. Mueller has demonstrated he has nothing, the intel committee says he has nothing, Diane Feinstein says he has nothing, adam schiff who hates trump cant say he has anything

Its been a setup from day one to try and distract trump from his agenda and it was orchestrated by our snake in chief Obama, who for 8 long years ignored the russians and let them do whatever it was they wanted, including hack the country

You listen Common. This investigation isn't going on endlessly. It hasn't gone on a year since Mueller was named the special council.

Mueller has demonstrated that the he's getting the job done. He's piled up indictments, guilty pleas and co-operating witnesses. And since the Trump organization just turned over documents, he's getting started on Trump finances. The letter empowering him permits him to investigate any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation. New information came out in the last couple days about Cambridge Analytica. More for Mueller to look into since Bannon was involved in that.

Please provide a link where Feinstein or the Senate Intel committee say Mueller has nothing. They are proceeding because they are still interviewing witnesses.

Sure, sure. You can believe there is nothing to see here. That's your right. Me. I'll wait until Mueller is done. As Trey Gowdy said,

“Give Bob Mueller the time, independence and resources to do his job,” Gowdy, of South Carolina, said Sunday. “And if you are innocent, act like it. … If you’ve done nothing wrong, you should want the investigation to be as fulsome and thorough as possible.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/18/gowdy-trumps-lawyer-did-president-disservice-in-urging-end-to-mueller-probe.html

[Nicole]

. Some of those look like they may be thrown out and none have anything to do with collision between Russia and Trump. I know that difficult for you to come to terms with, but that’s the way it is.

Mueller was empowered to investigate anything that arose or may arise directly from the investigation. In other words, all criminal activity he comes across. It appears you haven't read the letter empowering Mueller.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

[Nicole]

Mueller does not to get to flail around indefinitely, until he gets SOMETHING/ANYTHING on Pres.Trump. His probe has SPECIFIC GUIDELINES, which he is clearly stepping outside of.

Clearly, you haven't read the letter empowering Mueller.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

Pay close attention to sections (i), (ii), (iii) and (c). Especially part (ii).

Those are his guidelines, which he is clearly following, having come across criminal activity in the process of investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.

So sit tight and wait.

[Cletus]

People are "disgusted" by Mueller not because of anything he has actually said or done, but solely because he is investigating their hero...and because he is routinely insulted and vilified by the Tweeter-in-Chief. It is a simple case of shoot the messenger.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.dHcqUSo_KJ5v7sS_zpjJdgHaFG&pid=Api

No.

They are disgusted by him because it is obvious he is desperately trying to find something... anything to hang on the President. His investigation has gone so far beyond determining whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to rig the election that a lot of people don't even remember what he was supposed to be investigating. He investigates and finds nothing, so he picks a new direction to see if he can find something totally different from what he was commissioned to investigate.

It really is a political witch hunt. Mueller should have been fired months ago.

I suggest a second investigator mandated to investigate the first investigation.

[Cletus]

So true. Where there is worry, there is something to worry about. Innocent people, don't sweat.

That is complete and utter nonsense.

[Ethereal]

The push to silence, handcuff or cut Robert Mueller off at the knees is vey instructive. That so many people in high places - for the moment - are afraid of him and his work, even more so.
Yea, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the Russian "collusion" narrative is a blatant fraud perpetrated by Trump's political enemies. It has to be something else.

[Ethereal]

If Mueller is fired, two things will happen. First, the "Resistance" heretofore in evidence will seem like a calm chat in the park by comparison with the ensuing sh*tstorm...

The "resistance" has already gone full retard. Trump has nothing to lose by dismissing Mueller and ending his fraudulent investigation.


...and second, the time remaining in the Trump presidency will be reduced from years to months.

Trump is well within his legal rights to dismiss Mueller.

[Ethereal]

Why do you think he has to make anything up?

Because there isn't a single fact supporting the Russian "collusion" narrative. I defy you or anyone else on this forum to name ONE FACT that proves or at least tends to prove that Trump "colluded" with the Russian government to influence the US elections. I also defy you or anyone else on this forum to cite the specific law that defines and/or prohibits "collusion" with foreign governments in the context of an election.


The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.

The indictments have absolutely nothing to do with Russian "collusion".

[stjames1_53]

If Mueller is fired, two things will happen. First, the "Resistance" heretofore in evidence will seem like a calm chat in the park by comparison with the ensuing sh*tstorm; and second, the time remaining in the Trump presidency will be reduced from years to months.

not hardly............we know it is your fond wish, but it ain't gonna happen. There will be no blood in the streets. If it starts, it will come from one side of the fence, and only one side of the fence.
F*ck the "Resistance" like they've been f*cking us

[stjames1_53]

I don't think firing Meuller would lead to the constitutional crisis some claim. It would lead to more hyper partisan skreeching.


The justification for the investigation was the accusation of Trump / Russia collusion. After a year, no evidence has been uncovered which supports that. Now the investigation seems to have gone far afield of its original purpose. There's no reason he should be investigating business practices from a decade ago. This does feed the idea that it is a proverbial witch hunt.


At some point Meuller needs to either get it back on track where it should be or shut it down if there's no evidence to sustain the original purpose.


I think Meuller knows his appointment and investigation was based on a false premise. He just can't figure out how to get out of this and maintain his supposed clean non partisan reputation.

nope. he'll stay as long as he can keep lining his pockets. He will not leave one second before he can cash his last check.

[stjames1_53]

People are "disgusted" by Mueller not because of anything he has actually said or done, but solely because he is investigating their hero...and because he is routinely insulted and vilified by the Tweeter-in-Chief. It is a simple case of shoot the messenger.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.dHcqUSo_KJ5v7sS_zpjJdgHaFG&pid=Api

BS!!! show us the fricking collusion....

[stjames1_53]

Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.

those indictments have nothing to do with Trump. Those 13 indictments are against Russian Nationals. Good luck bringing them back here for trial. But again, even that does not lead back to Trump. Manafort's problems pre-date Trumps primaries. Flynn will get off the hook because of prosecutorial misconduct and coerced statements.
Who is left now?

[stjames1_53]

You'd be a bigger idiot to give confessional interviews and tweet like Trump. Trey Gowdy said it best this weekend, "If your not guilty, stop acting guilty".

when did Trump give a "confessional testimony?"

[Ethereal]

You don't know what Trump will be accused/charged with.

A legitimate investigation STARTS with a hypothesis that a SPECIFIC crime has been committed. You cannot even name what crime Trump supposedly committed, let alone establish probable cause or reasonable suspicion to that effect.

Moreover, a legitimate investigation extends only to the particularized circumstances and evidence surrounding the initial hypothesis. It does not go on indefinitely in search of new hypotheses to investigate. That is literally the textbook definition of a fishing expedition.

So by your own admission, Mueller's investigation into the Trump campaign is fraudulent and unlawful.

[Common]

The left just wants the insulting and raging and lying about trump to continue thinking they are gaining from it

[Common]

Having experience in investigations I cant tell you how many times when you are investigating someone for a crime that you uncover other things in the process unrelated. Thats what mueller and his team of democrats are hoping for.

[Ethereal]

Having experience in investigations I cant tell you how many times when you are investigating someone for a crime that you uncover other things in the process unrelated. Thats what mueller and his team of democrats are hoping for.
It's one thing if you discover something incidentally in the course of a legitimate investigation. It's entirely another when your intention is to go out in search of information that is totally unrelated to the initial investigation, especially after the initial investigation fails to produce any immediate results.

[Tahuyaman]

Mueller was empowered to investigate anything that arose or may arise directly from the investigation. In other words, all criminal activity he comes across. It appears you haven't read the letter empowering Mueller.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

So you think Mueller is authorized to go in a fishing expedition. Cool.


The purpose was to investigate the accusation of collusion with the Russians to influence the election. So far the only collusion uncovered is between the Russians and the DNC / Clinton camp. But you can dismiss that.

[Nicole]

Because there isn't a single fact supporting the Russian "collusion" narrative. I defy you or anyone else on this forum to name ONE FACT that proves or at least tends to prove that Trump "colluded" with the Russian government to influence the US elections. I also defy you or anyone else on this forum to cite the specific law that defines and/or prohibits "collusion" with foreign governments in the context of an election.



The indictments have absolutely nothing to do with Russian "collusion".

Again. Mueller has not completed his investigation. He has not submitted his final report. Due to those facts, it's asinine to say there is no evidence of collusion. Nobody ever heard of George Papadopolous before he plead guilty. So there goes your theory of evidence available that tends to prove anything.

If there was nothing potentially illegal to investigate regarding Trump working with The Russians, Rosenstein, with the blessing of Sessions, could never have empowered a special council to investigate. Here's an explanation of what laws could have been violated.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/may/31/gregg-jarrett/fox-news-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/


Nathaniel Persily at Stanford University Law School said one relevant statute is the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002.
"A foreign national spending money to influence a federal election can be a crime," Persily said. "And if a U.S. citizen coordinates, conspires or assists in that spending, then it could be a crime."
Persily pointed to a 2011 U.S. District Court ruling (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM191_110808_bluman.html) based on the 2002 law. The judges said that the law bans foreign nationals "from making expenditures to expressly advocate the election or defeat of a political candidate."
Another election law specialist, John Coates at Harvard University Law School, said if Russians aimed to shape the outcome of the presidential election, that would meet the definition of an expenditure.
"The related funds could also be viewed as an illegal contribution to any candidate who coordinates (colludes) with the foreign speaker," Coates said.
To be sure, no one is saying that coordination took place. What’s in doubt is whether the word "collusion" is as pivotal as Jarrett makes it out to be.
Coates said discussions between a campaign and a foreigner could violate the law against fraud (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1346).
"Under that statute, it is a federal crime to conspire with anyone, including a foreign government, to ‘deprive another of the intangible right of honest services,’ " Coates said. "That would include fixing a fraudulent election, in my view, within the plain meaning of the statute."
Josh Douglas at the University of Kentucky Law School offered two other possible relevant statutes.
"Collusion in a federal election with a foreign entity could potentially fall under other crimes, such as against public corruption," Douglas said. "There's also a general anti-coercion federal election law (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/610)."
In sum, legal experts mentioned four criminal laws that might have been broken. The key is not whether those statutes use the word collusion, but whether the activities of the Russians and Trump associates went beyond permissible acts.


I didn't say the indictments did have anything to do with "collusion". They were crimes discovered while they were investigating ties with the Russians. The guilty pleas were made by morons who thought they could lie to the SC and get away with it.

[Dangermouse]

The sheer desperation exuding from Trump amd his fanbois to have Mueller go away is palpable. Indictments will be related to crimes found, why may well fir the lay blanket term "collusion" which covers conspiracy to treason and beyond.

[Nicole]

those indictments have nothing to do with Trump. Those 13 indictments are against Russian Nationals. Good luck bringing them back here for trial. But again, even that does not lead back to Trump. Manafort's problems pre-date Trumps primaries. Flynn will get off the hook because of prosecutorial misconduct and coerced statements.
Who is left now?

I didn't say the indictments did have anything to do with "collusion". They were crimes discovered while they were investigating ties with the Russians. The guilty pleas were made by morons who thought they could lie to the SC and get away with it.

When Mueller is done, we shall see if there were crimes committed by Trump or members of his campaign in working with the Russians. Until then, your suppositions are built on incomplete facts.

[Nicole]

when did Trump give a "confessional testimony?"

Please read for comprehension and don't put words in my mouth I did not use:


http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Nicole http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2314383#post2314383)
You'd be a bigger idiot to give confessional interviews and tweet like Trump. Trey Gowdy said it best this weekend, "If your not guilty, stop acting guilty".

[nathanbforrest45]

The sheer desperation exuding from Trump amd his fanbois to have Mueller go away is palpable. Indictments will be related to crimes found, why may well fir the lay blanket term "collusion" which covers conspiracy to treason and beyond.


I understand you guys are calling the soon to be new Princess some ugly racial slur names. How British of you.

https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/meghan-markle-prince-harry-british-press-reactions.html

[nathanbforrest45]

I didn't say the indictments did have anything to do with "collusion". They were crimes discovered while they were investigating ties with the Russians. The guilty pleas were made by morons who thought they could lie to the SC and get away with it.

When Mueller is done, we shall see if there were crimes committed by Trump or members of his campaign in working with the Russians. Until then, your suppositions are built on incomplete facts.

While yours seem to be built on no facts, incomplete or otherwise.

[NapRover]

Mueller is a tool.....and tools can be broken. All of this lead back to one person. The one that was the first to call Trump a traitor and then Repubs traitors.

That is Ma Barker and her Crime Family. Take down Ma Barker and all of this goes away.....real fast like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovYnLL9Yow

Ma Barker: funniest thing ever!

[MMC]

Again. Mueller has not completed his investigation. He has not submitted his final report. Due to those facts, it's asinine to say there is no evidence of collusion. Nobody ever heard of George Papadopolous before he plead guilty. So there goes your theory of evidence available that tends to prove anything.

If there was nothing potentially illegal to investigate regarding Trump working with The Russians, Rosenstein, with the blessing of Sessions, could never have empowered a special council to investigate. Here's an explanation of what laws could have been violated.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/may/31/gregg-jarrett/fox-news-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/


I didn't say the indictments did have anything to do with "collusion". They were crimes discovered while they were investigating ties with the Russians. The guilty pleas were made by morons who thought they could lie to the SC and get away with it.

No one heard about the Aussie Clinton Donor that started the initial investigation either. But then that was due to the FBI failing to inform Congress and a FISA Court of that pertinent fact. The part about the disgruntled Clinton Donor saying what he thought he overheard. After several drinks in a bar.

[Nicole]

A legitimate investigation STARTS with a hypothesis that a SPECIFIC crime has been committed. You cannot even name what crime Trump supposedly committed, let alone establish probable cause or reasonable suspicion to that effect.
Moreover, a legitimate investigation extends only to the particularized circumstances and evidence surrounding the initial hypothesis. It does not go on indefinitely in search of new hypotheses to investigate. That is literally the textbook definition of a fishing expedition.
So by your own admission, Mueller's investigation into the Trump campaign is fraudulent and unlawful.
Grok didn't ask me to name anything:


http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Grokmaster http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2314373#post2314373)
They sure as hell do when they are falsely accused and persecuted.


You should read what I was responding to before you respond to me. I'm not rewriting this post. There are list of crimes Trump and/or his campaign may have violated in it.http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/95813-New-Drudge-Poll-Overwhelmingly-Supports-Firing-Mueller?p=2314817#post2314817


So by your own admission, Mueller's investigation into the Trump campaign is fraudulent and unlawful.

I admitted no such thing. Stop putting words in my mouth I never said and respond to what I actually wrote and not what you wished I wrote.

[Nicole]

So you think Mueller is authorized to go in a fishing expedition. Cool.
The purpose was to investigate the accusation of collusion with the Russians to influence the election. So far the only collusion uncovered is between the Russians and the DNC / Clinton camp. But you can dismiss that.

All of you need to stop putting words in my posts I did not write. Read and reply to what I have written. You look weak when you pretend I said something I didn't. It's a coward's dodge.

Read the letter empowering the Special Council and then you'll understand. It helps to read the underlying documents before making proclamations.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download


Once more for the cheap seats. The investigation is not over. You don't know what has been uncovered so far. You and the rest of your cohorts only know what has been reported.

[Safety]

Clearly, you haven't read the letter empowering Mueller.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

Pay close attention to sections (i), (ii), (iii) and (c). Especially part (ii).

Those are his guidelines, which he is clearly following, having come across criminal activity in the process of investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election.

So sit tight and wait.

Good luck, you’ll have to repeat this at least 21 more times.

[Nicole]

While yours seem to be built on no facts, incomplete or otherwise.

I know and have discussed what has actually been reported. Indictments filed in court are a matter of public record as are guilty pleas from Papadopolis, Flynn, Gates and Pinedo.

You are basing your argument on wishful thinking and an unfinished investigation.

[Nicole]

No one heard about the Aussie Clinton Donor that started the initial investigation either. But then that was due to the FBI failing to inform Congress and a FISA Court of that pertinent fact. The part about the disgruntled Clinton Donor saying what he thought he overheard. After several drinks in a bar.
You need to name who you're talking about.

[Nicole]

Good luck, you’ll have to repeat this at least 21 more times.

Thank you, I'll need it to get through the willful ignorance and magical thinking these people bathe in, all day long.

[MMC]

Good luck, you’ll have to repeat this at least 21 more times.

Not if you're involved....it will then take at least 50 times. But don't worry.....we can get the monkey to push a button rather than dance for a banana.

[Tahuyaman]

Good luck, you’ll have to repeat this at least 21 more times.

Trolls are funny.

[Tahuyaman]

Not if you're involved....it will then take at least 50 times. But don't worry.....we can get the monkey to push a button rather than dance for a banana.
Oh oh.... now you did it.

[The Xl]

Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.
Lmao, almost a year and a half and nothing. They're trying so hard to find anything, the media and the government, they've resorted to glorifying/propping up a washed up pornstar in the latest attempt to smear him.

[The Xl]

So true. Where there is worry, there is something to worry about. Innocent people, don't sweat.
Yes, because politicians and government officials who are proxies for big banks, the military industrial complex, etc, are known to be honest....

[MMC]

Oh oh.... now you did it.

Yeah I know......now we will hear that he has a Masters Degree but can only come up with whining about BO the peep and sniveling about how Repubs do what Demos do.

But hey....he is suppose to be smart.


Next time he does that shit.....just throw him a dancing banana. http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/bananas/banana135.gif

[Nicole]

Lmao, almost a year and a half and nothing. They're trying so hard to find anything, the media and the government, they've resorted to glorifying/propping up a washed up pornstar in the latest attempt to smear him.

Again. Indictments and co-operating witnesses are not nothing. For like the 7th time, the investigation is not over. We don't know what Mueller has that has not gone to court yet. (Maybe if I put it in bold, it will sink in.)

The Special Council was only empowered on 5/17/17.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

Not even a year.

[Grokmaster]

All of you need to stop putting words in my posts I did not write. Read and reply to what I have written. You look weak when you pretend I said something I didn't. It's a coward's dodge.

Read the letter empowering the Special Council and then you'll understand. It helps to read the underlying documents before making proclamations.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download


Once more for the cheap seats. The investigation is not over. You don't know what has been uncovered so far. You and the rest of your cohorts only know what has been reported.

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).


Mueller has completly abandoned this, and is now trying to find SOMETHING/ANYTHING from years ago.
NONE of the charges he is trying to foist have ANY DIRECT CONNECTION TO RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE/COLLUSION, except those against the Russian Facebook ad buyers.
This is not what is meant by: any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;



Mueller DOES NOT HAVE AUTHORITY to flail about on any matter he chooses, as both he and the left are glaringly mistaken about.

[Ethereal]

Again. Mueller has not completed his investigation. He has not submitted his final report. Due to those facts, it's asinine to say there is no evidence of collusion. Nobody ever heard of George Papadopolous before he plead guilty. So there goes your theory of evidence available that tends to prove anything.

If there was nothing potentially illegal to investigate regarding Trump working with The Russians, Rosenstein, with the blessing of Sessions, could never have empowered a special council to investigate. Here's an explanation of what laws could have been violated.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/may/31/gregg-jarrett/fox-news-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/

So you cannot produce a single fact that proves or tends to prove that any "collusion" took place. All you can do is cite the mere POSSIBILITY that some vague wrongdoing occurred, which could apply to ANYONE or ANYTHING.

As for your Politifact article, it is heavily biased and does not cite any opposing legal views. If it had searched out any opposing legal views, which is what balanced journalism would do, it would have discovered that federal courts have never actually resolved what constitutes a "thing of value".


(Stanford Law) Legal experts parse the Trump campaign-Russia connection and the law (https://news.stanford.edu/2017/07/17/stanford-legal-experts-parse-trump-campaign-russia-connection-law/)

Stanford law scholars Robert Weisberg and David Sklansky examine the potential legal ramifications of Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with a Russian lawyer who allegedly promised negative information on Hillary Clinton.

[...]

Weisberg: There’s a plausible charge here, but it would depend on a number of issues never resolved by a federal court. Most obviously, was the information he solicited a “thing of value”? Common sense says yes, but the closest precedents are in the area of the federal bribery laws, which suggest that while something “intangible” can be a thing of value, it has to have a fairly monetizable value. Information might be a thing of value if, in effect, it is the “deliverable” of some sort of expensive information-gathering or analysis service, but otherwise it’s dubious. The “willfully” term in the statute will leave Trump Jr. with the not-quite-absurd but very weak argument that it requires proof that he knew of the terms of the criminal law at issue here.

Sklansky: That statute makes it illegal for foreign nationals to contribute to U.S. election campaigns, and illegal for anyone to solicit or receive a contribution to a U.S. election campaign from a foreign national. The contribution can be of money or any “thing of value.” It’s not entirely clear whether dirt on a political opponent counts as a “thing of value” for purposes of the statute.

But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that information meets the legal definition of a "thing of value" and that "soliciting" it from a "foreign national" constitutes a violation of campaign finance laws. That would mean the Democratic National Committee violated campaign finance laws when it hired (solicited) Christopher Steele (a foreign national) to conduct opposition research (information) on Trump. In other words, the DNC did EXACTLY what Trump is being accused of. The only difference is that we have FACTS PROVING the DNC did this, whereas there are NO FACTS proving that Trump did it.


I didn't say the indictments did have anything to do with "collusion". They were crimes discovered while they were investigating ties with the Russians. The guilty pleas were made by morons who thought they could lie to the SC and get away with it.

You cited the indictments as if they somehow justified the investigation into collusion. They do not.

[Ethereal]

Grok didn't ask me to name anything:

You should read what I was responding to before you respond to me. I'm not rewriting this post. There are list of crimes Trump and/or his campaign may have violated in it.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/95813-New-Drudge-Poll-Overwhelmingly-Supports-Firing-Mueller?p=2314817#post2314817

I admitted no such thing. Stop putting words in my mouth I never said and respond to what I actually wrote and not what you wished I wrote.

What is the probable cause or reasonable suspicion that Donald Trump violated or conspired to violate campaign finance laws? Where is the federal precedent that defines information as a "thing of value"? If soliciting information from a foreign national is a violation of campaign finance laws, then what does that imply about the DNC's decision to hire Christopher Steele for the purposes of opposition research?

[Tahuyaman]

There was some collusion between politically motivated Americans and Russians intending to influence our election, but it wasn't by any American connected to the Trump campaign. I doubt that the hyper partisans on the Democrat Party left will ever muster the courage to confront that truth.

[Ethereal]

For like the 7th time, the investigation is not over. We don't know what Mueller has that has not gone to court yet.

That's NOT a point in your favor. An investigation that is shrouded in secrecy and which cannot cite any publicly available facts to justify itself is dubious at best and fraudulent at worst.

If police officers were following you around for a year, rummaging through your garbage, interviewing your friends, family, and coworkers, fishing through your financial records, etc., and you asked them WHY they were doing it, a legitimate response would NOT be, "The investigation is not over, you'll just have to wait and see what we find."

That is UNLAWFUL and ILLIBERAL. It is the kind of investigation that would take place in a police state or a banana republic. THAT is what you are defending, whether you realize or it not.

[Tahuyaman]

Again. Indictments and co-operating witnesses are not nothing. For like the 7th time, the investigation is not over. We don't know what Mueller has that has not gone to court yet. (Maybe if I put it in bold, it will sink in.)

The Special Council was only empowered on 5/17/17.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

Not even a year.


Seeing that you don't know what he knows, why are you convinced it's information which will destroy the Trump administration?

[Nicole]

Seeing that you don't know what he knows, why are you convinced it's information which will destroy the Trump administration?

I never said I was convinced that the Trump administration will be destroyed. Post #74


When Mueller is done, we shall see if there were crimes committed by Trump or members of his campaign in working with the Russians.

[Nicole]

That's NOT a point in your favor. An investigation that is shrouded in secrecy and which cannot cite any publicly available facts to justify itself is dubious at best and fraudulent at worst.
If police officers were following you around for a year, rummaging through your garbage, interviewing your friends, family, and coworkers, fishing through your financial records, etc., and you asked them WHY they were doing it, a legitimate response would NOT be, "The investigation is not over, you'll just have to wait and see what we find."
That is UNLAWFUL and ILLIBERAL. It is the kind of investigation that would take place in a police state or a banana republic. THAT is what you are defending, whether you realize or it not.

Mueller is under no obligation to publicly air his findings while the investigation is in progress. No investigator is. There are publicly available facts though. In court filings. Even the congress, under the control of the Republicans, is not demanding to know what Mueller has now.

Having never been in that position, I cannot speak to what a person under investigation can or cannot do.

Please cite the law that say it's unlawful. I'm defending the rule of law. Where the same kinds of lawful investigations have taken place of presidents Nixon and Clinton.

[hanger4]

Again. Indictments and co-operating witnesses are not nothing. For like the 7th time, the investigation is not over. We don't know what Mueller has that has not gone to court yet. (Maybe if I put it in bold, it will sink in.)The Special Council was only empowered on 5/17/17.https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/downloadNot even a year.Comey started the Trump campaign investigation July 2016, around 19 months ago Nicole.

[MisterVeritis]

That's NOT a point in your favor. An investigation that is shrouded in secrecy and which cannot cite any publicly available facts to justify itself is dubious at best and fraudulent at worst.

If police officers were following you around for a year, rummaging through your garbage, interviewing your friends, family, and coworkers, fishing through your financial records, etc., and you asked them WHY they were doing it, a legitimate response would NOT be, "The investigation is not over, you'll just have to wait and see what we find."

That is UNLAWFUL and ILLIBERAL. It is the kind of investigation that would take place in a police state or a banana republic. THAT is what you are defending, whether you realize or it not.
You give me hope. It is a shame there is but one of you.

[Nicole]

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

Mueller has completly abandoned this, and is now trying to find SOMETHING/ANYTHING from years ago.
NONE of the charges he is trying to foist have ANY DIRECT CONNECTION TO RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE/COLLUSION, except those against the Russian Facebook ad buyers.
This is not what is meant by: any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;
Mueller DOES NOT HAVE AUTHORITY to flail about on any matter he chooses, as both he and the left are glaringly mistaken about.

Please submit evidence Mueller has abandoned that? Mueller is authorized, right there in black and white, that if he comes across other crimes during his investigations, he can take action. He's not going to ignore other crimes he comes across. During a traffic stop, if a policeman sees the car is full of what looks like stolen property, they aren't just going to write a ticket and let the person drive off.

You all have your hair on fire. Mueller is not done yet. He may not find a direct connection or he may. Neither of us can say one way or another until it's over.

You cited his authority he was given and Rosenstein is overseeing Mueller. He could stop Mueller were he going in the wrong direction.

[stjames1_53]

Grok didn't ask me to name anything:

You should read what I was responding to before you respond to me. I'm not rewriting this post. There are list of crimes Trump and/or his campaign may have violated in it.http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/95813-New-Drudge-Poll-Overwhelmingly-Supports-Firing-Mueller?p=2314817#post2314817


I admitted no such thing. Stop putting words in my mouth I never said and respond to what I actually wrote and not what you wished I wrote.


liberal professors who backed the wrong horse. they'll say anything to make themselves look important.
According to some in here, there's been a sh!tload of indictments. But..................not one of them leads to Trump.
You seem spunky enough, so let me ask you what I've been asking these others.....
1. What was taken from you this last election?
2. Why do you hate Trump so much? What has he done to you?
3. How is it you KNOW Hillary was supposed to win?

[Nicole]

So you cannot produce a single fact that proves or tends to prove that any "collusion" took place. All you can do is cite the mere POSSIBILITY that some vague wrongdoing occurred, which could apply to ANYONE or ANYTHING.

As I said, there is no definitive evidence, one way or the other because we don't know what evidence the investigation has collected. Take one piece of of suspicious activity in the form of emails regarding the meeting at Trump tower. Do we know everything about that? No. We don't. We haven't interviewed of the persons in that meeting. But Mueller and his team have talked to some of them.


As for your Politifact article, it is heavily biased and does not cite any opposing legal views. If it had searched out any opposing legal views, which is what balanced journalism would do, it would have discovered that federal courts have never actually resolved what constitutes a "thing of value".

The article was written to refute Greg Jarret's report: Fox News host wrong that no law forbids Russia-Trump collusionAs it turns out, Jarret is a former defense attorney and he offered his legal, and opposing, opinion:


Jarrett, a former defense attorney, said that even if the two worked together, it wasn’t illegal.
"Collusion is not a crime, only an antitrust law," he said on May 30. "You can collude all you want with a foreign government in an election. There's no such statute."
Jarrett made the same point in an article (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.html) on the Fox News website. He wrote that special counsel Robert Mueller had been given the "futile" task of investigating a crime that doesn’t exist.
"As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics," Jarrett wrote. "However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime."

Greg doesn't think it's illegal, and the cited legal opinions disagree with him.

But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that information meets the legal definition of a "thing of value" and that "soliciting" it from a "foreign national" constitutes a violation of campaign finance laws. That would mean the Democratic National Committee violated campaign finance laws when it hired (solicited) Christopher Steele (a foreign national) to conduct opposition research (information) on Trump. In other words, the DNC did EXACTLY what Trump is being accused of. The only difference is that we have FACTS PROVING the DNC did this, whereas there are NO FACTS proving that Trump did it.
Fusion GPS hired Steele. Not the DNC nor the Clintons. GPS was a subcontractor to the DNC and Steele was subcontracted as a private citizen for hire as an investigator. Neither the DNC or the Clintons hired or directed his actions. Congress, under control of the Republicans, are free to investigate that matter, but I can't find if they are.
You cited the indictments as if they somehow justified the investigation into collusion. They do not.[/QUOTE]

Following this thread backwards, this is what I was responding to and how I presented it:


http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by The Xl http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=2314021#post2314021)
What's more frightening is that people in high places, like Mueller, can make $#@! up for the purpose of attempting to end someone he's opposed to politically, and that some people will eat it all up without question.



Why do you think he has to make anything up? The indictments are piling up and so are the co-operating witnesses.

Not a mention of collusion in there.

[MisterVeritis]

Fusion GPS hired Steele. Not the DNC nor the Clintons. GPS was a subcontractor to the DNC and Steele was subcontracted as a private citizen for hire as an investigator. Neither the DNC or the Clintons hired or directed his actions. Congress, under control of the Republicans, are free to investigate that matter, but I can't find if they are.

Your mental gymnastics are awesome!

[Nicole]

What is the probable cause or reasonable suspicion that Donald Trump violated or conspired to violate campaign finance laws? Where is the federal precedent that defines information as a "thing of value"? If soliciting information from a foreign national is a violation of campaign finance laws, then what does that imply about the DNC's decision to hire Christopher Steele for the purposes of opposition research?

Emails and the meeting held in Trump tower. Trump's utter inability to say a bad word about Putin. Coincidences in timing with the wikileaks release of the hacked emails. As well as information we are not privvy to.

Since I didn't introduce any discussion with regards to a "thing of value", there is no mention of it in the politifact article I cited, that's up to you to find. There are 9 mentions of the word "value" in the thread and they are all yours.

[Nicole]

Your mental gymnastics are awesome!
Following this thread backwards, this is what I was responding to and how I presented it:

Not a mention of collusion in there.[/QUOTE]

There are no mental gymnastics in that statement. Fusion GPS hired Steele. Clinton and the DNC had no say so in who Fusion GPS hired.

[MisterVeritis]

There are no mental gymnastics in that statement. Fusion GPS hired Steele. Clinton and the DNC had no say so in who Fusion GPS hired.
LOL. Liberals. Can't live with 'em.

The law firm was a cut-out. The money came from Crooked, now Crazy Hillary. She gave the money to a law firm who, in turn, hired Fusion GPS who in turn hired a Brit who in turn hired Russian operatives.

That is the truth. Please spin again.

[Ethereal]

Mueller is under no obligation to publicly air his findings while the investigation is in progress. No investigator is.

In other words, Mueller is under no obligation to demonstrate to the public or to the people he's investigating that his investigation is legitimate. We just have to take his word for it.

That is the kind of thing that happens in police states, not free societies.


There are publicly available facts though. In court filings. Even the congress, under the control of the Republicans, is not demanding to know what Mueller has now.

Okay, so give me the single most compelling fact which tends to support probable cause or reasonable suspicion that a specific crime was committed by Trump.


Having never been in that position, I cannot speak to what a person under investigation can or cannot do.

Forget for one second about the legalistic aspect of it and simply ask yourself if that kind of behavior from law enforcement is consistent with the principles of a free and open society.


Please cite the law that say it's unlawful. I'm defending the rule of law. Where the same kinds of lawful investigations have taken place of presidents Nixon and Clinton.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The Fourth Amendment places an express obligation on the state to meet all these criteria, and then some. Given that Americans are presumed innocent, the burden of proof falls squarely on the state to demonstrate the legitimacy of their actions. Thus far, Mueller has not even come close to meeting that minimal standard. Ergo, his investigation is PRESUMED to be unlawful according to traditional American legal principles.

[Nicole]

Comey started the Trump campaign investigation July 2016, around 19 months ago Nicole.

They started with looking at Russian interference in the election. Comey did not have the investigation in full swing and at the time of his firing, Trump thanked him for saying he was not personally under investigation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissal_of_James_Comey#Termination_letter

Dear Director Comey:
I have received the attached letters from the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General of the United States recommending your dismissal as the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have accepted their recommendation and you are hereby terminated and removed from office, effective immediately.
While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau.
It is essential that we find new leadership that restores public trust and confidence in its vital law enforcement mission.
I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
— Donald J. Trump


So the investigation into Trump had not been started at that point.

[Ethereal]

As I said, there is no definitive evidence, one way or the other because we don't know what evidence the investigation has collected. Take one piece of of suspicious activity in the form of emails regarding the meeting at Trump tower. Do we know everything about that? No. We don't. We haven't interviewed of the persons in that meeting. But Mueller and his team have talked to some of them.

So when there is no definitive evidence one way or the other, who should the law favor? The accuser or the accused? Does the burden of proof fall on the state or the individual being investigated? What sorts of implications does the PRESUMPTION of innocence have for an investigation that hasn't produced definitive evidence in support of its existence?


The article was written to refute Greg Jarret's report: Fox News host wrong that no law forbids Russia-Trump collusionAs it turns out, Jarret is a former defense attorney and he offered his legal, and opposing, opinion:

Greg doesn't think it's illegal, and the cited legal opinions disagree with him.

Typically, the opposing viewpoint should come from someone who is INDEPENDENT of the story.

Either way, whether or not information qualifies as a "thing of value" is an open legal question. It has never been resolved by the courts. But simply use your common sense: If information met the legal definition of a "thing of value", then foreign nationals would be effectively prohibited from saying or sharing anything that pertained to an ongoing election. Technically, if a foreign national posted a favorable news article to Trump's Twitter account, that would be a "contribution" of a "thing of value". There is simply NO WAY that mere information will ever qualify as a "thing of value" under the law. It is far too broad and nebulous. Mueller is investigating something based on a wish and a hope, not solid legal precedents and principles.


Fusion GPS hired Steele. Not the DNC nor the Clintons. GPS was a subcontractor to the DNC and Steele was subcontracted as a private citizen for hire as an investigator. Neither the DNC or the Clintons hired or directed his actions.

It makes no difference is they hired him directly or if one of their agents did it for them, the DNC is the principal in this equation, which makes them liable for what Steele did.


(Cornell Law) Agency (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/agency)

Agency law is concerned with any "principal"-"agent" relationship; a relationship in which one person has legal authority to act for another. Such relationships arise from explicit appointment, or by implication. The relationships generally associated with agency law include guardian-ward, executor or administrator-decedent, and employer-employee.

The law of agency is based on the Latin maxim "Qui facit per alium, facit per se," which means "he who acts through another is deemed in law to do it himself." Agency, in its legal sense, nearly always relates to commercial or contractual dealings.


Congress, under control of the Republicans, are free to investigate that matter, but I can't find if they are.

I don't see how that's relevant.


Following this thread backwards, this is what I was responding to and how I presented it:

Not a mention of collusion in there.

"Making sh*t up" refers to the entire "collusion" narrative, so it's implied by the context.

[Tahuyaman]

I thought I remembered Nicole from the past. I checked her posting history. Check it out.

[Ethereal]

Emails and the meeting held in Trump tower.

So why hasn't Trump Jr. been charged with a crime yet?


Trump's utter inability to say a bad word about Putin. Coincidences in timing with the wikileaks release of the hacked emails.
Proves nothing.


As well as information we are not privvy to.

Very compelling.


Since I didn't introduce any discussion with regards to a "thing of value", there is no mention of it in the politifact article I cited, that's up to you to find. There are 9 mentions of the word "value" in the thread and they are all yours.

They are talking about campaign finance laws. The law says it is unlawful for someone to solicit a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value from a foreign national in connection with an election. Since Trump did not solicit a "contribution" or "donation of money" from Veselnitskaya, the only thing left is a "thing of value". But the question of whether or not mere information qualifies as a "thing of value" has never been resolved by federal courts. But if we assume, for the sake of argument, that information qualifies as a "thing of value" under the law, then that would mean the DNC is liable for its decision to hire Steele for the purposes of opposition research.

[hanger4]

They started with looking at Russian interference in the election. Comey did not have the investigation in full swing and at the time of his firing, Trump thanked him for saying he was not personally under investigation:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissal_of_James_Comey#Termination_letterDear Director Comey:I have received the attached letters from the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General of the United States recommending your dismissal as the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have accepted their recommendation and you are hereby terminated and removed from office, effective immediately.While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau.It is essential that we find new leadership that restores public trust and confidence in its vital law enforcement mission.I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.— Donald J. TrumpSo the investigation into Trump had not been started at that point.It doesn't matter what full swing is or isn't, Comey started the investigation July of 2016. ............. *FBI Director James B. Comey told Congress that the FBI launched its investigation into Russian meddling in the U.S. elections nearly nine months ago.He said the FBI started investigating the matter in July and that its work was still in the early stages.* .............. *Earlier at the hearing, he confirmed publicly for the first time that the FBI is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.* ................ http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-comey-fbi-launched-investigation-into-1490023083-htmlstory.html

[Tahuyaman]

In one way or another the Trump / Russia collusion investigation has been going on for at least a year and a half and there is no evidence to justify it. WTF.... is this going to continue as long as he’s the POTUS?

[Nicole]

In other words, Mueller is under no obligation to demonstrate to the public or to the people he's investigating that his investigation is legitimate. We just have to take his word for it.

No. He isn't. He is reporting to Rosenstein, his boss. Rosenstein is reviewing his work. Investigators do not give public updates about evidence they have collected. Feel about it how you will but I don't know where you get such a wrong headed idea that the public should be kept in the loop during an active investigation. Especially one that concerns national security.

Okay, so give me the single most compelling fact which tends to support probable cause or reasonable suspicion that a specific crime was committed by Trump.
I already have. Emails between Jr. and Rob Goldstone. And the fact that Trump cannot bring himself to say a bad word about Putin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.
The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
If the future president’s eldest son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of a continuing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.
He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

That or Flynn contacting the Russians about sanctions.

Forget for one second about the legalistic aspect of it and simply ask yourself if that kind of behavior from law enforcement is consistent with the principles of a free and open society.

Yes. It is consistent with everything I have ever heard about people under investigation. You have to sit and wait while the investigation is ongoing, though I presume wealthy people get their lawyers involved. When it comes time to be interviewed by the investigators, tell the truth.

The Fourth Amendment places an express obligation on the state to meet all these criteria, and then some. Given that Americans are presumed innocent, the burden of proof falls squarely on the state to demonstrate the legitimacy of their actions. Thus far, Mueller has not even come close to meeting that minimal standard. Ergo, his investigation is PRESUMED to be unlawful according to traditional American legal principles.

He doesn't have to prove to the public his actions are legitimate. Rosenstein is his boss. He has oversight. Not the public. Mueller is not an elected official. Again, I don't know where you get your ideas.

[Nicole]

liberal professors who backed the wrong horse. they'll say anything to make themselves look important.
According to some in here, there's been a sh!tload of indictments. But..................not one of them leads to Trump.
You seem spunky enough, so let me ask you what I've been asking these others.....
1. What was taken from you this last election?
2. Why do you hate Trump so much? What has he done to you?
3. How is it you KNOW Hillary was supposed to win?
I think this is the 8th time. Mueller is not done. He hasn't filed his final report. Neither of us knows if it leads back to Trump, yet.

1. Has nothing to do any of this.
2. He's unfit for the office.
3. I don't and I haven't ever said so.

[Nicole]

So when there is no definitive evidence one way or the other, who should the law favor? The accuser or the accused? Does the burden of proof fall on the state or the individual being investigated? What sorts of implications does the PRESUMPTION of innocence have for an investigation that hasn't produced definitive evidence in support of its existence?

There is no definitive evidence in public. Mueller will produce his evidence in court, should he have enough evidence to take it to court. You're really straining credulity. The prosecutor proves their case in court. That's where the burden of proof lies. Do you think they tell kiddie pornographers they are being investigated? That would give them a chance to destroy evidence. Trump knows because the special council was empowered to investigate.

Typically, the opposing viewpoint should come from someone who is INDEPENDENT of the story.


For a news story? They writers wondered did Jarret's case hold water. They asked some legal experts their opinion. He's a reporter and he wrote his own opinion as in an Op Ed. They were testing the validity of his opinion.


Either way, whether or not information qualifies as a "thing of value" is an open legal question. It has never been resolved by the courts. But simply use your common sense: If information met the legal definition of a "thing of value", then foreign nationals would be effectively prohibited from saying or sharing anything that pertained to an ongoing election. Technically, if a foreign national posted a favorable news article to Trump's Twitter account, that would be a "contribution" of a "thing of value". There is simply NO WAY that mere information will ever qualify as a "thing of value" under the law. It is far too broad and nebulous. Mueller is investigating something based on a wish and a hope, not solid legal precedents and principles.


Mueller and Rosenstein know what the law says and what the burden of proof is on their side. They will have to prove a "thing of value" was imparted. Your opinion as to the quality of that information, will not play into it.

It makes no difference is they hired him directly or if one of their agents did it for them, the DNC is the principal in this equation, which makes them liable for what Steele did.
I guess when or if Clinton is charged with a crime for that, which the congress is not investigating as far as I know, she'll have to answer for that.
I don't see how that's relevant.

You brought up Clinton. The house intel investigated Trump and announced "no collusion". The senate is still investigating. Why wouldn't they be interested in Clinton possibly colluding? You brought it up. It must have had some relevance.

"Making sh*t up" refers to the entire "collusion" narrative, so it's implied by the context.

It was a broad statement. I responded as such.

[Nicole]

So why hasn't Trump Jr. been charged with a crime yet?

For the 9th time, Mueller hasn't finished yet. He hasn't even interviewed him as far as I can find. I searched. Maybe you can find that Jr. has been interviewed.

Proves nothing.

That's your opinion. If you lack the curiosity as to why he can't bring himself to speak ill of Putin, that's on you. No other American president in my life time has licked a Russian leader's shoes the way Trump has Putin's. Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave.

Very compelling.
They are talking about campaign finance laws. The law says it is unlawful for someone to solicit a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value from a foreign national in connection with an election. Since Trump did not solicit a "contribution" or "donation of money" from Veselnitskaya, the only thing left is a "thing of value". But the question of whether or not mere information qualifies as a "thing of value" has never been resolved by federal courts. But if we assume, for the sake of argument, that information qualifies as a "thing of value" under the law, then that would mean the DNC is liable for its decision to hire Steele for the purposes of opposition research.

I already addressed this in another post.

[Nicole]

It doesn't matter what full swing is or isn't, Comey started the investigation July of 2016. ............. *FBI Director James B. Comey told Congress that the FBI launched its investigation into Russian meddling in the U.S. elections nearly nine months ago.He said the FBI started investigating the matter in July and that its work was still in the early stages.* .............. *Earlier at the hearing, he confirmed publicly for the first time that the FBI is investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.* ................ http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-comey-fbi-launched-investigation-into-1490023083-htmlstory.html

Russian meddling. Not Trump. Are you saying the Trump lied when he wrote Comey told him three times he wasn't under investigation?

[Tahuyaman]

Russian meddling. Not Trump. Are you saying the Trump lied when he wrote Comey told him three times he wasn't under investigation? Comey testified under oath that he told Trump that he wasn’t under investigation. Did he lie?

[hanger4]

Russian meddling. Not Trump. Are you saying the Trump lied when he wrote Comey told him three times he wasn't under investigation?I'm saying the "Trump campaign", surely you understand that involves Trump. Has Comey lied ?? He's lied about leaking.

[stjames1_53]

I think this is the 8th time. Mueller is not done. He hasn't filed his final report. Neither of us knows if it leads back to Trump, yet.

1. Has nothing to do any of this.
2. He's unfit for the office.
3. I don't and I haven't ever said so.

then, why aren't you wishing him success instead of trying to throw him in prison?
If he has done nothing against you, what's your beef? Obama was a junior senator who we knew nothing about before he got into office. What we did know was that his only qualification was organizing violent protests at a grass roots level, a community organizer for the Alinski crowd, but nothing ever came of his attempts.
So, by your definition, Obama wasn't qualified to hold office, either. But idiots kept him in office as he stole 10% of the private economy.
Today's he's living like a white man in the corporate world. Really great, eh? So much for him helping the likes of you.
Unfit? Tell me one president that was fit under your personal guidelines.

[MMC]

There are no mental gymnastics in that statement. Fusion GPS hired Steele. Clinton and the DNC had no say so in who Fusion GPS hired.[/QUOTE]

Of course they had no say as to who GPS Fusion hired.....that doesn't change up the fact that the DNC hired GPS Fusion, along with the Clinton Campaign.


Moreover Steele isn't the one that constructed the Dossier. That was a Edward Baumgartner a Brit National who had actual ties to Russia. Who was working for Steele.


Of course later the Lame Stream Media would finally discover that Fusion GPS was working with Russians who were in direct contact with the Kremlin.

[MMC]

You need to name who you're talking about.
Well the Lame Stream Media stated it was the Aussie Ambassador to the US. They didn't give a name. First they said Aussie Ambassador to the US.....later changed it to an Aussie Diplomat.


The Aussie Ambassador to the US in 2016 was Joe Hockey. Naturally the Lame Stream knew this.


Then the Lame Stream and left wing rags would state that Popadopoulos had talked to an Aussie Diplomat, not Ambassador. That name they mentioned was Alexander Downer.

The left wing Rag Vox would blame the NY Times for the info they had pimped out to their following. Stating the NY Times version was accurate. Including as to how the investigation started.


Then the WSJ and the Federalist would humiliate the NY Slimes showing how they went by Demo talking points. Mainly form Adam FullfSchiff and his hastily last minute memo.


The real truth was both the NY Slimes and Vox knew exactly who the Aussie Ambassador was. Which is why they changed up their terminology to Aussie diplomat.

[MMC]

Please submit evidence Mueller has abandoned that? Mueller is authorized, right there in black and white, that if he comes across other crimes during his investigations, he can take action. He's not going to ignore other crimes he comes across. During a traffic stop, if a policeman sees the car is full of what looks like stolen property, they aren't just going to write a ticket and let the person drive off.

You all have your hair on fire. Mueller is not done yet. He may not find a direct connection or he may. Neither of us can say one way or another until it's over.

You cited his authority he was given and Rosenstein is overseeing Mueller. He could stop Mueller were he going in the wrong direction.

Really.....then after he talked with Tony and John Podesta and Tony stepped down from the Podesta group. Can you explain why Mueller didn't bring any charges over the Podestas not filing with the FARA and only did so a couple years later after this Trump investigation began?

Why did he give the Podestas a pass. "What', oopsie we forgot but hey we filed eventually?

[Grokmaster]

Please submit evidence Mueller has abandoned that? Mueller is authorized, right there in black and white, that if he comes across other crimes during his investigations, he can take action. He's not going to ignore other crimes he comes across. During a traffic stop, if a policeman sees the car is full of what looks like stolen property, they aren't just going to write a ticket and let the person drive off.

You all have your hair on fire. Mueller is not done yet. He may not find a direct connection or he may. Neither of us can say one way or another until it's over.

You cited his authority he was given and Rosenstein is overseeing Mueller. He could stop Mueller were he going in the wrong direction.

He is playing "Find a Crime" on issues completely unrelated to the 2016 Election, which is why he even exists in his current capacity.

[Nicole]

Comey testified under oath that he told Trump that he wasn’t under investigation. Did he lie?

Of course not. That’s my point. The investigation into Trump, personally, started with Mueller.

[MisterVeritis]

Of course not. That’s my point. The investigation into Trump, personally, started with Mueller.
Can you tell us what the probable cause was? What was the crime?

[Nicole]

I'm saying the "Trump campaign", surely you understand that involves Trump. Has Comey lied ?? He's lied about leaking.

I’m saying the investigation into Trump personally, which is different that the campaign. Trump was put under a personal investigation by Mueller. Of course Comey didn’t lie. The guy is a boy scout. Literally.

Trump wasn’t put under a personal investigation until May of 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017%E2%80%93presen t)
The FBI launched an investigation of Trump for obstruction of justice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice) a few days after the May 9 firing of Comey.[142] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017%E2%80%93presen t)#cite_note-Horwitz-142)

[Nicole]

then, why aren't you wishing him success instead of trying to throw him in prison?
If he has done nothing against you, what's your beef? Obama was a junior senator who we knew nothing about before he got into office. What we did know was that his only qualification was organizing violent protests at a grass roots level, a community organizer for the Alinski crowd, but nothing ever came of his attempts.
So, by your definition, Obama wasn't qualified to hold office, either. But idiots kept him in office as he stole 10% of the private economy.
Today's he's living like a white man in the corporate world. Really great, eh? So much for him helping the likes of you.
Unfit? Tell me one president that was fit under your personal guidelines.

Why would I wish this man success? His priority is him, not this country. He is unqualified and even dangerous with regard to national security. He will not condemn or confront Putin for meddling in our election, or poisoning the former Russian spy and his daughter on U.K. soil. He was slow in putting sanctions in place and then they were underwhelming. Instead of ordering our national security agencies to take every action necessary to prevent Russia and Putin from screwing with our elections this year, his National Security team tells us they are doing all they can but they could do much, much more. The state department under Tillerson, has spent zero of the $125 million he was given to fight Russian meddling and Trump did nothing about it. He said he believed Putin when Putin said he didn’t mess with our elections and spent months saying he didn’t believe our intelligence agencies. He doesn’t read the President’s daily bulletin himself and the persons who read it to him, can’t mention Russia or he gets mad. He doesn’t understand/behave like the congress and judiciary are co-equal branches of government. He doesn’t understand much about the government at all (the AG serves the people of the U.S., not him) I’m going to stop listing.

That our national security is in perilous shape, effects me, my family, friends community and every person in the U.S. Such a head of state, who puts himself before the citizens of his nation and refuses to take the necessary steps to protect them as well, needs to be removed from office.

I’m not getting dragged off into a discussion of Obama and conspiracy theories like that.

I’ll give you a contemporary list. FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, Johnson, Reagan, H.W. Bush, Clinton and even W. Bush. And yes, Obama. (Add Washington and Lincoln to that list). They were all capable, respected the presidency and despite some quibbling with some of their specific policies and foibles, they actively worked to protect our nation from all enemies, foreign and domestic and didn’t look at the presidency as an opportunity to grift the country. After Nixon, all presidents revealed their tax returns. Trump did not. Presidents also place their wealth in the hands of advisers in a blind trust. Trump as not.

[Nicole]

Of course they had no say as to who GPS Fusion hired.....that doesn't change up the fact that the DNC hired GPS Fusion, along with the Clinton Campaign.
Moreover Steele isn't the one that constructed the Dossier. That was a Edward Baumgartner a Brit National who had actual ties to Russia. Who was working for Steele.
Of course later the Lame Stream Media would finally discover that Fusion GPS was working with Russians who were in direct contact with the Kremlin.

So what? Opposition research is done all the time. That Fusion GPS discovered the Trump campaign was into a lot of questionable stuff, is not on Fusion, Clinton or the DNC. That's Trump's problem.
The rest of your post is conspiracy theories and full of ridiculous partisan phrases.

Well the Lame Stream Media stated it was the Aussie Ambassador to the US. They didn't give a name. First they said Aussie Ambassador to the US.....later changed it to an Aussie Diplomat.
The Aussie Ambassador to the US in 2016 was Joe Hockey. Naturally the Lame Stream knew this.
Then the Lame Stream and left wing rags would state that Popadopoulos had talked to an Aussie Diplomat, not Ambassador. That name they mentioned was Alexander Downer.
The left wing Rag Vox would blame the NY Times for the info they had pimped out to their following. Stating the NY Times version was accurate. Including as to how the investigation started.
Then the WSJ and the Federalist would humiliate the NY Slimes showing how they went by Demo talking points. Mainly form Adam FullfSchiff and his hastily last minute memo.
The real truth was both the NY Slimes and Vox knew exactly who the Aussie Ambassador was. Which is why they changed up their terminology to Aussie diplomat.

I have no idea what you’re getting at with this nonsense full of more partisan gibberish. More conspiracies?

Really.....then after he talked with Tony and John Podesta and Tony stepped down from the Podesta group. Can you explain why Mueller didn't bring any charges over the Podestas not filing with the FARA and only did so a couple years later after this Trump investigation began?
Why did he give the Podestas a pass. "What', oopsie we forgot but hey we filed eventually?


Mueller isn’t done. It's impossible to know for a fact that Tony Posdesta got a pass. It also doesn’t sound like he's got a pass to me:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/tony-podesta-stepping-down-from-lobbying-giant-amid-mueller-probe-244314


Democratic power lobbyist Tony Podesta, founder of the Podesta Group, is stepping down from the firm that bears his name after coming under investigation by special counsel Robert Mueller.

Podesta’s decision to leave the firm came on the same day that former Donald Trump campaign aides Paul Manafort and Rick Gates were indicted on multiple charges, including money laundering, operating as federal agents of the Ukrainian government, failing to disclose overseas bank accounts and making false statements to federal authorities. Trump campaign foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty earlier this month for lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials, according to court records.

The investigation into Podesta and his firm grew out of investigators’ examination of Manafort’s finances. Manafort organized a PR campaign on behalf of a nonprofit called the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine. Podesta Group was one of several firms that were paid to do work on the PR campaign to promote Ukraine in the U.S.

[Nicole]

He is playing "Find a Crime" on issues completely unrelated to the 2016 Election, which is why he even exists in his current capacity.


Your opinion. Which Roesenstein, now joined by Ryan and McConnell, don't appear to share or Mueller would be shut down.

[MisterVeritis]

Your opinion. Which Rosenstein, now joined by Ryan and McConnell, don't appear to share or Mueller would be shut down.
I would put Rosenstein, Ryan, and McConnell in the enemy camp. The goal continues to be a coup. If the Democrats should take the House I expect to see immediate impeachment proceedings.

Taxes will be raised. The border opened. The nation will be lost that much sooner.

Arm up. Train up. Band together.

[Nicole]

Can you tell us what the probable cause was? What was the crime?So you all are asking the same question, after Trump tweeted Dershowitz' asking the same question. You're all on the same page. Here's my previous reply.

Emails and the meeting held in Trump tower. Trump's utter inability to say a bad word about Putin. Coincidences in timing with the wikileaks release of the hacked emails. As well as information we are not privvy to.

[Nicole]

I would put Rosenstein, Ryan, and McConnell in the enemy camp. The goal continues to be a coup. If the Democrats should take the House I expect to see immediate impeachment proceedings.
Taxes will be raised. The border opened. The nation will be lost that much sooner.Arm up. Train up. Band together.

Who's enemy? Yours?

If that were to happen, I won't rule out the possibility of impeachment because Mueller isn't finished yet. He may find high crimes and misdemeanors.

So you're a "2nd amendment remedies" person? If your side loses, you're going to go to war against the government? Would that include your fellow citizens?

[MisterVeritis]

So you all are asking the same question, after Trump tweeted Dershowitz' asking the same question. You're all on the same page. Here's my previous reply.
Emails and the meeting held in Trump tower. Trump's utter inability to say a bad word about Putin. Coincidences in timing with the wikileaks release of the hacked emails. As well as information we are not privvy to.

In other words, no probable cause for the non-crime. Thanks.

The special counsel appointment is invalid and probably unlawful.

[Nicole]

In other words, no probable cause for the non-crime. Thanks.
The special counsel appointment is invalid and probably unlawful.

Your opinion, not shared by Rosenstein, Ryan and McConnell.

[MisterVeritis]

I would put Rosenstein, Ryan, and McConnell in the enemy camp.
The goal continues to be a coup.

If the Democrats should take the House I expect to see immediate impeachment proceedings.
Taxes will be raised. The border opened. The nation will be lost that much sooner.
Arm up. Train up. Band together.

Who's enemy? Yours?
The American people.

If that were to happen, I won't rule out the possibility of impeachment because Mueller isn't finished yet. He may find high crimes and misdemeanors.
So you're a "2nd amendment remedies" person? If your side loses, you're going to go to war against the government? Would that include your fellow citizens?
Impeachment is a political process. President Trump is blameless. It really does not matter.

Yes. I am a Second Amendment Person. I am a Constitutional Conservative. Are you asking what we will do if the nation loses and we sink further into tyranny?

[MisterVeritis]

Your opinion, not shared by Rosenstein, Ryan and McConnell.
All three are swamp dwellers. It is beginning to look as if McConnell and his wife are both very corrupt individuals. I would not be surprised to see DOJ investigations into both of them.

[MisterVeritis]

Your opinion, not shared by Rosenstein, Ryan and McConnell.
The Second Special Counsel can look into the real crime of using unverified political opposition research as the pretext to spy on American citizens. That will snag Rosenstein and Comey.

[Crepitus]

This is just about as meaningful as polling the church chior to see who believes in good.

[Grokmaster]

This is just about as meaningful as polling the church chior to see who believes in good.

Or hiring a dozen pro-Hillary Clinton/Anti-Trump people, including 9 donors to her failed presidential campaign, to head up an Obama Swamp KGB-FBI/DOJ Witch Hunt against the man who defeated her....

[Crepitus]

Or hiring a dozen pro-Hillary Clinton/Anti-Trump people, including 9 donors to her failed presidential campaign, to head up an Obama Swamp KGB-FBI/DOJ Witch Hunt against the man who defeated her....

Lol, you nitwits always over look the fact that the guy in charge is a dyed in the wool republican.

You need a new saw, that one's getting pretty dull.

[stjames1_53]

Lol, you nitwits always over look the fact that the guy in charge is a dyed in the wool republican.

You need a new saw, that one's getting pretty dull.

No he's not. and the Republicans didn't appoint Mueller. That was Rosenstein, a staunch Clinton supporter.

[MMC]

So what? Opposition research is done all the time. That Fusion GPS discovered the Trump campaign was into a lot of questionable stuff, is not on Fusion, Clinton or the DNC. That's Trump's problem.

Show us when Opposition researched involved Foreign Sources before 2015.
The rest of your post is conspiracy theories and full of ridiculous partisan phrases.

So you didn't know anything about who Baumgartner is, and didn't know Fusion GPS was working with Russians. Typical leftist that doesn't have all the facts. Why isn't this surprising. Go study and then get back to me when You learn the truth about those 2 issues.


I have no idea what you’re getting at with this nonsense full of more partisan gibberish. More conspiracies?
Save the Bullshit and your partisan lame excuses for what you didn't know. Like I said. Go study and then get back to me when you can respond intelligently. I know it might be a stretch for your leftism. But you can do it. <<<<<said that Like Rob Schneider.


Mueller isn’t done. It's impossible to know for a fact that Tony Posdesta got a pass. It also doesn’t sound like he's got a pass to me:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/tony-podesta-stepping-down-from-lobbying-giant-amid-mueller-probe-244314


So what Tony Podesta stepped down, and there is nothing to suggest that Mueller will take any action against the Podestas, For doing the Same thing Manafort did. That Initially got Muller looking into Manafort. Otherwise it doesn't take him over 6 months to come with charges over FARA.

[MMC]

Lol, you nitwits always over look the fact that the guy in charge is a dyed in the wool republican.

You need a new saw, that one's getting pretty dull.

There it is again, the lame excuse about Mueller being a Republican. One thing is for sure, you just don't have the brain capacity to figure out that issue.

Next time go talk to Juan Williams and ask him why he is a Registered Republican yet votes for Democrats in Elections. This way you wont keep making yourself look any more dumber than you are.

[Standing Wolf]

Lol, you nitwits always over look the fact that the guy in charge is a dyed in the wool republican.

You need a new saw, that one's getting pretty dull.

The new rule, apparently, is that you can't legitimately call yourself a Republican unless you wholeheartedly support Trump, ignore or make excuses for his ignorance, crudeness and tantrums, and join in the chorus of calling for the messenger's death every time one of his legal, ethical or strategic lapses is pointed out by the press. The alternative to defining everybody else out of the Party would be to admit that Trump represents the best the GOP has to offer in terms of principles and an agenda about as much as Honey Boo Boo does.

http://pimphop.com/wp-content/uploads/honey-boo-bo.jpg

[MMC]

The new rule, apparently, is that you can't legitimately call yourself a Republican unless you wholeheartedly support Trump, ignore or make excuses for his ignorance, crudeness and tantrums, and join in the chorus of calling for the messenger's death every time one of his legal, ethical or strategic lapses is pointed out by the press. The alternative to defining everybody else out of the Party would be to admit that Trump represents the best the GOP has to offer in terms of principles and an agenda about as much as Honey Boo Boo does.

http://pimphop.com/wp-content/uploads/honey-boo-bo.jpg



http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/07/170714_POL_Mitch-Ryan-split.jpg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpg

https://img.apmcdn.org/47e201822e16524f31aeb640d9f18c9b7d455f70/uncropped/723b07-20120605-wisoconsin-recall8.jpg

[Standing Wolf]

Point?

[Ransom]

Who's enemy? Yours?

If that were to happen, I won't rule out the possibility of impeachment because Mueller isn't finished yet. He may find high crimes and misdemeanors.

So you're a "2nd amendment remedies" person? If your side loses, you're going to go to war against the government? Would that include your fellow citizens?
Here is the point, Nicole. You are already convinced there are high crimes and misdemeanors even though you've not a shred of proof. And ask yourself the same question. If "your side" loses....in other words....if there are no high crimes nor crimes whatsoever...how much of a big media puppet and suck up will you and yours appear to be?

[Ransom]

Point?

Same question for you......another who is convinced of collusion and obstruction....without a shred of evidence. Media puppets, you dance.

[MMC]

Point?

You mean beside you not knowing who are Republicans that were against Trump, or that criticize Trump or disagree with Trump?

Or that you have been spending to much time talking with Crepitus and Safety? What happened to you Wolf?

[MMC]

Here is the point, Nicole. You are already convinced there are high crimes and misdemeanors even though you've not a shred of proof. And ask yourself the same question. If "your side" loses....in other words....if there are no high crimes nor crimes whatsoever...how much of a big media puppet and suck up will you and yours appear to be?


http://static.politico.com/dims4/default/46304dd/2147483647/resize/1160x>/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F68%2Fa5%2F fb7931114e149baa788b78b99e00%2Fprotest-gty-1160.jpg


You know its pretty bad when they can't figure out just how they became the enemy.

[Crepitus]

No he's not. and the Republicans didn't appoint Mueller. That was Rosenstein, a staunch Clinton supporter.

Lmao!!

Rosenstien is a republican.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Rosenstein

You really don't know nuthin about nuthin do ya.

[Crepitus]

There it is again, the lame excuse about Mueller being a Republican. One thing is for sure, you just don't have the brain capacity to figure out that issue.

Next time go talk to Juan Williams and ask him why he is a Registered Republican yet votes for Democrats in Elections. This way you wont keep making yourself look any more dumber than you are.

That is one of the lamest excuses I have heard yet.

[Tahuyaman]

Of course not. That’s my point. The investigation into Trump, personally, started with Mueller.

Actually Comey lied. It didn't start with Mueller.

[Crepitus]

The new rule, apparently, is that you can't legitimately call yourself a Republican unless you wholeheartedly support Trump, ignore or make excuses for his ignorance, crudeness and tantrums, and join in the chorus of calling for the messenger's death every time one of his legal, ethical or strategic lapses is pointed out by the press. The alternative to defining everybody else out of the Party would be to admit that Trump represents the best the GOP has to offer in terms of principles and an agenda about as much as Honey Boo Boo does.

http://pimphop.com/wp-content/uploads/honey-boo-bo.jpg

Yup. One of these guys just tried to tell me Rosenstein is not only a Democrat but a democratic appointee.

[MMC]

That is one of the lamest excuses I have heard yet.

Nah.....not even close. You forgot the excuses your kind makes Daily.


LMAO, Mueller.....Registered Republican.

[Standing Wolf]

Same question for you......another who is convinced of collusion and obstruction....without a shred of evidence. Media puppets, you dance.

Read my post (#149) and then explain what the above has to do with anything being discussed.

[Standing Wolf]

You mean beside you not knowing who are Republicans that were against Trump, or that criticize Trump or disagree with Trump?

Or that you have been spending to much time talking with Crepitus and Safety? What happened to you Wolf?

Every time a Republican - even one extolled for years as a bedrock conservative - disagrees with or criticizes Trump, he is immediately dismissed as a RINO (or worse) by members of this forum, by elements of the fringe right media, and of course by Trump himself. Is that even marginally deniable? My point is simply that the cult of personality surrounding Trump has resulted in some Republicans having it in their heads that Trump's views - on any given week, day or hour - represent Republican and/or conservative views and values, and that anybody who has the audacity to disagree with him about anything is a villain and a traitor. I see it here (and elsewhere) every day of the week, and so do you.

[Tahuyaman]

I'd like to see Trump fire Mueller just to see the predictable reaction of the Democrats and establishment Republicans.

[Nicole]

I would put Rosenstein, Ryan, and McConnell in the enemy camp.
The goal continues to be a coup.
If the Democrats should take the House I expect to see immediate impeachment proceedings.
Taxes will be raised. The border opened. The nation will be lost that much sooner.
Arm up. Train up. Band together.

The American people.

Impeachment is a political process. President Trump is blameless. It really does not matter.

Yes. I am a Second Amendment Person. I am a Constitutional Conservative. Are you asking what we will do if the nation loses and we sink further into tyranny?
A coup? That’s laughable. Up until now, they have laid down for Trump. This is the first spark in the otherwise dark, dank and swampy environs of the GOP leadership.
I’m American. They are not my enemy. They are not the enemy of my family, neighbors and friends who support Democrats either. Put down that broad brush you’re painting with.
Maybe Trump is blameless. We aren’t going to know until the Mueller investigation is over. You’re making assumptions without the facts.
I’m asking what you will do. I am already concerned about the possibility we have a tyrant and dictator wannabe in the White House.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-04/trump-tells-donors-china-s-xi-president-for-life-cnn-says

“Don’t forget China’s great and Xi is a great gentleman. He’s now president for life,” Trump told Republican backers. The crowd erupted in laughter in response to the remarks made Saturday at his Mar-a-Lago estate.
The remarks come as China’s national parliament gathers in Beijing for two weeks of meetings expected to culminate in Xi’s appointment to a second term and a constitutional change allowing him to stay on indefinitely. The Communist Party announced the planned amendment Feb. 25, in a surprising break with succession practices set up after Mao Zedong’s fraught tenure.
“And look, he was able to do that,” Trump said. “I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll give that a shot some day,” he said, prompting more laughter. The White House didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

Had Obama said that, you would have been "arming up, training up and banding together".

[Nicole]

All three are swamp dwellers. It is beginning to look as if McConnell and his wife are both very corrupt individuals. I would not be surprised to see DOJ investigations into both of them.

They are leaders in a co-equal branch of our government. Maybe he takes their message to heart, but likely not and then we’ll see if they are leaders, or lackeys.
That would be deliciously ironic, but unlikely.



The Second Special Counsel can look into the real crime of using unverified political opposition research as the pretext to spy on American citizens. That will snag Rosenstein and Comey.

Since that’s patently not true, and the suggestion makes idiots of the FISA judges, it’s not likely anything would come of a second SC with respect to that. In the less than likely scenario that a second SC be appointed. I’m not saying it won’t happen, it’s just less than likely at this point.

[Nicole]

So what Tony Podesta stepped down, and there is nothing to suggest that Mueller will take any action against the Podestas, For doing the Same thing Manafort did. That Initially got Muller looking into Manafort. Otherwise it doesn't take him over 6 months to come with charges over FARA.

Mueller is not done investigating yet. Nobody knew Papadopoulos’ name until he plead guilty. Nobody knew about Nader for weeks after he was co-operating. Nobody knew who Richard Pinedo was until he plead guilty and is now co-operating. Nobody knew Flynn was pleading guilty until he did. To say the Podesta if off the hook because there is nothing to suggest that Mueller is has the intention to charge him, before Mueller has completed his investigation, is not credible.

[MisterVeritis]

A coup? That’s laughable.
Then laugh it up. Attempting to overturn an election is a coup.


Up until now, they have laid down for Trump. This is the first spark in the otherwise dark, dank and swampy environs of the GOP leadership.
You are just as much an enemy as they are. Are you not an anti-Constitutional leftist?

I’m American. They are not my enemy. They are not the enemy of my family, neighbors and friends who support Democrats either. Put down that broad brush you’re painting with.
Are you not an anti-Constitutional Leftist?

[MisterVeritis]

All three are swamp dwellers. It is beginning to look as if McConnell and his wife are both very corrupt individuals. I would not be surprised to see DOJ investigations into both of them.

They are leaders in a co-equal branch of our government. Maybe he takes their message to heart, but likely not and then we’ll see if they are leaders, or lackeys.
It is beginning to look as if McConnell and his wife have sold us out to China. They are not the only ones. Biden and his family became very wealthy doing the same thing.

[MisterVeritis]

The Second Special Counsel can look into the real crime of using unverified political opposition research as the pretext to spy on American citizens. That will snag Rosenstein and Comey.


Since that’s patently not true, and the suggestion makes idiots of the FISA judges, it’s not likely anything would come of a second SC with respect to that. In the less than likely scenario that a second SC be appointed. I’m not saying it won’t happen, it’s just less than likely at this point.
Of course, it is true.

If the FISA judges are not holding the FBI accountable they are part of the problem.

[MMC]

Every time a Republican - even one extolled for years as a bedrock conservative - disagrees with or criticizes Trump, he is immediately dismissed as a RINO (or worse) by members of this forum, by elements of the fringe right media, and of course by Trump himself. Is that even marginally deniable? My point is simply that the cult of personality surrounding Trump has resulted in some Republicans having it in their heads that Trump's views - on any given week, day or hour - represent Republican and/or conservative views and values, and that anybody who has the audacity to disagree with him about anything is a villain and a traitor. I see it here (and elsewhere) every day of the week, and so do you.

I think you are making more of it than whats there. For example....Both Mr V and I disagreed with Trump on giving Dreamers a pathway to citizenship. That's not to say that I haven't seen Trump supporters argue with us Conservatives over a difference in policy. But they didn't really vilify us. Of course that don't apply to leftists or take into an account of a Demo Trump supporter still dumping on Conservatives.

[Nicole]

Here is the point, Nicole. You are already convinced there are high crimes and misdemeanors even though you've not a shred of proof. And ask yourself the same question. If "your side" loses....in other words....if there are no high crimes nor crimes whatsoever...how much of a big media puppet and suck up will you and yours appear to be?
I don’t know where you get that from, Ransom. I have used words like “might” “maybe” “possibly” all through my posts when speaking about the results of Mueller's investigation. In the very post you quote, I said, “He may find high crimes and misdemeanors.” May, might and maybe are not definitive words. You know why I don’t make definitive statements about what may come of Mueller’s investigation? Because Mueller hasn’t finished his investigation. I there is no way I can know what is going to happen.
What I have said, is there is probable cause. Big difference.

Says the guy who laps up Trump lies. You can’t rush to judgement fast enough to declare Trump innocent before the investigation is over. If you're so sure he's innocent, wait and see and take a victory lap should that be the result.

[Nicole]

Actually Comey lied. It didn't start with Mueller.

Prove it.
I already offered proof that Trump was only personally under investigation after Comey was fired.

[Nicole]

http://static.politico.com/dims4/default/46304dd/2147483647/resize/1160x>/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F68%2Fa5%2F fb7931114e149baa788b78b99e00%2Fprotest-gty-1160.jpg


You know its pretty bad when they can't figure out just how they became the enemy.

I'm the enemy?

[Nicole]

Every time a Republican - even one extolled for years as a bedrock conservative - disagrees with or criticizes Trump, he is immediately dismissed as a RINO (or worse) by members of this forum, by elements of the fringe right media, and of course by Trump himself. Is that even marginally deniable? My point is simply that the cult of personality surrounding Trump has resulted in some Republicans having it in their heads that Trump's views - on any given week, day or hour - represent Republican and/or conservative views and values, and that anybody who has the audacity to disagree with him about anything is a villain and a traitor. I see it here (and elsewhere) every day of the week, and so do you.

Excellent post. Trump represents Trump and he's not a conservative, nor a Republican.

And your avatar rocks too.

[MMC]

Mueller is not done investigating yet. Nobody knew Papadopoulos’ name until he plead guilty. Nobody knew about Nader for weeks after he was co-operating. Nobody knew who Richard Pinedo was until he plead guilty and is now co-operating. Nobody knew Flynn was pleading guilty until he did. To say the Podesta if off the hook because there is nothing to suggest that Mueller is has the intention to charge him, before Mueller has completed his investigation, is not credible.


True.....Mueller isn't done investigating yet. But after a year an half and not one Demo being put on display. After knowing that some Demos lied to the FBI or Congress. Then that process crime would have been dealt with like it was with Flynn, Manafort, and Popadop.


Moreover no one believes he will. Not Repubs......not Demos.

[MMC]

I'm the enemy?

Are you a leftist? If so.....then yes, you are.

[Nicole]

Then laugh it up. Attempting to overturn an election is a coup.
You are just as much an enemy as they are. Are you not an anti-Constitutional leftist?
Are you not an anti-Constitutional Leftist?

No one, including Mueller is attempting to overturn an election. Mueller is looking to bring criminals to justice. Period.

Enemy of what? Your enemy, if you say so. To my country or our constitution, emphatically, the answer is no. I respect our constitution, our democracy and the rule of law.

I'm not a fan of Trump. A president who doesn't respect the constitution, democracy, the rule of law and refuses to defend our country from a foreign enemy. I never thought I'd see the day when the right/conservatives/Republicans would defend a president who is clearly in bed with Putin. Putin is laughing his butt off at what a punk Trump is and how easy it was to make him one. "If he says great things about me, I'll say great things about him". Paraphrasing.

[Nicole]

True.....Mueller isn't done investigating yet. But after a year an half and not one Demo being put on display. After knowing that some Demos lied to the FBI or Congress. Then that process crime would have been dealt with like it was with Flynn, Manafort, and Popadop.
Moreover no one believes he will. Not Repubs......not Demos.

Believe what you want, but your suppositions are not based on the facts, just wishful thinking.

[Nicole]

Are you a leftist? If so.....then yes, you are.

What is a leftist?

[MMC]

What is a leftist?

A liberal, Progressive, illiberal, Socialist, Fascist, and Communist......aka/Leftists/Democrats.

[Nicole]

All three are swamp dwellers. It is beginning to look as if McConnell and his wife are both very corrupt individuals. I would not be surprised to see DOJ investigations into both of them.
It is beginning to look as if McConnell and his wife have sold us out to China. They are not the only ones. Biden and his family became very wealthy doing the same thing.

You know who's actually selling us out to China? Trump. His and his daughter's products are made there. Jared tried to promise expedited visas if they would invest with him.

I don't have an opinion on McConnell, his wife or your paranoid fantasies about Biden. Don't try to justify it either. It's not the subject of this discussion.

[The Xl]

The cognitive dissonance the hard left shows routinely is amazing. Robert Mueller couldn't possibly be corrupt, he's part of the state and the state is God, they can do no wrong, yet Trump is a criminal despite being the highest ranking member of the state. Truly hilarious.

[Nicole]

The Second Special Counsel can look into the real crime of using unverified political opposition research as the pretext to spy on American citizens. That will snag Rosenstein and Comey.
Of course, it is true.

If the FISA judges are not holding the FBI accountable they are part of the problem.
If that were true, the congress would be taking it up with the FISA court. They have over-sight. It's their responsibility, but you didn't see the house intel committee even come close to suggesting that.

[MMC]

Believe what you want, but your suppositions are not based on the facts, just wishful thinking.

Yes they are based on facts.....show me one Democrat that has been charged with a process crime.....besides General Flynn.

[Nicole]

A liberal, Progressive, illiberal, Socialist, Fascist, and Communist......aka/Leftists/Democrats.

Basically anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy. I don't have political enemies. I look at those who don't agree with me as the opposition. Casting my opponents as my enemies is counterproductive and is tearing this country apart. It is about the least patriotic stance a person could take.

I'm a progressive liberal. Not an extreme leftist, socialist, fascist or communist.

[Tahuyaman]

Prove it.
I already offered proof that Trump was only personally under investigation after Comey was fired.


It's obvious that Trump was being investigated by the FBI prior to Comey's firing. They were indeed investigating the collusion meme.

[Tahuyaman]

If that were true, the congress would be taking it up with the FISA court. They have over-sight. It's their responsibility, but you didn't see the house intel committee even come close to suggesting that.


The congressional committee has no authority to indict anyone for anything.

[MMC]

Basically anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy. I don't have political enemies. I look at those who don't agree with me as the opposition. Casting my opponents as my enemies is counterproductive and is tearing this country apart. It is about the least patriotic stance a person could take.

I'm a progressive liberal. Not an extreme leftist, socialist, fascist or communist.

There can be no compromise on ideology. The lefts path leads to the sell out of the Country.

op·po·si·tion


(the opposition)

a group of adversaries or competitors, especially a rival political party or athletic team.


ad·ver·sar·y


adversaries (plural noun)


one's opponent in a contest, conflict, or dispute.

synonyms: opponent (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+opponent) · rival (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+rival) · enemy (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+enemy) · foe (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+foe) · nemesis (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+nemesis) · antagonist (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+antagonist) · combatant (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+combatant) · challenger (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+challenger) · contender (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+contender) · competitor (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+competitor) · opposer (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+opposer) · fellow contestant · opposition (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+opposition)


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/99/78/a8/9978a8d074823c11d6d009278c129db8.jpg

[MisterVeritis]

Then laugh it up. Attempting to overturn an election is a coup.
You are just as much an enemy as they are. Are you not an anti-Constitutional leftist?
Are you not an anti-Constitutional Leftist?

No one, including Mueller is attempting to overturn an election. Mueller is looking to bring criminals to justice. Period.
This is untrue. Obama, Clinton, their inner circles, the Obama DOJ and Obama FBI along with the Obama DNI, NSA and CIA were all involved in the coup attempt. Mueller is an extension of the coup attempt, nothing more.

Enemy of what? Your enemy, if you say so. To my country or our constitution, emphatically, the answer is no. I respect our constitution, our democracy and the rule of law.
If you are a leftist you are anti-Constitutional. That makes you an enemy of the nation and its people.

I'm not a fan of Trump. A president who doesn't respect the constitution, democracy, the rule of law and refuses to defend our country from a foreign enemy.
That was President Barack Hussein O.


I never thought I'd see the day when the right/conservatives/Republicans would defend a president who is clearly in bed with Putin. Putin is laughing his butt off at what a punk Trump is and how easy it was to make him one. "If he says great things about me, I'll say great things about him". Paraphrasing.
Show me the evidence.

[MisterVeritis]

Every time a Republican - even one extolled for years as a bedrock conservative - disagrees with or criticizes Trump, he is immediately dismissed as a RINO (or worse) by members of this forum, by elements of the fringe right media, and of course by Trump himself.
Do you have examples?

[MisterVeritis]

Prove it.
I already offered proof that Trump was only personally under investigation after Comey was fired.
If President Trump is under investigation what is the crime and what is the probable cause that indicates President Trump was involved in the crime? Let's begin there.

I think Rosenstein should be censured and possibly fired over his role in this sordid affair.

[Ransom]

I don’t know where you get that from, Ransom. I have used words like “might” “maybe” “possibly” all through my posts when speaking about the results of Mueller's investigation. In the very post you quote, I said, “He may find high crimes and misdemeanors.” May, might and maybe are not definitive words. You know why I don’t make definitive statements about what may come of Mueller’s investigation? Because Mueller hasn’t finished his investigation. I there is no way I can know what is going to happen.
What I have said, is there is probable cause. Big difference.

Exactly Nicole. The Media that is clearly your puppeteer uses the exact same phrases do they not? Words like "might", "appears that it could lead to", "some observers would say." I could just as easily say. Mueller might find that aliens from Saturn landed on Nov 7th and submitted millions of voted for Trump. Careful what I'm saying here.....and then claiming. I'm saying that because you're using those words, you're firstly regurgitating what you hear from the media....but you are convinced it's true. Whether you want to admit that to this forum or not, I can tell you have an agenda, I can tell you truly have been convinced...by the media....that Trump colluded with Russians and/or tried to obstruct this ridiculous investigation. Would I be wrong in that opinion.


Says the guy who laps up Trump lies. You can’t rush to judgement fast enough to declare Trump innocent before the investigation is over. If you're so sure he's innocent, wait and see and take a victory lap should that be the result.
You made that up. More evidence I probably placed your peg in the proper slot.......this sounds like your feathers is all ruffled like. Must have hit that nail right on its' head. Your turn......tell me the lie I'm 'lapping up.'

And furthermore.....of course I'm sure he's innocent. Nicole. In this country.....the United States.....one is innocent until proven guilty. Trump hasn't been convicted nor even charged........that's what makes me so sure he's innocent. And Nicole......I'm going to do more than just take a victory lap, I'm going to stand in forum Member's wheelhouse. And ask just how they became convinced....you know...like you have...that Trump was guilty...like you believe. And your answer of course Nicole....is going to be...the Media. And what I'm telling you here......if it ain't already dawned on you....is that you're carrying their water here, you're sucking up whatever manure they spread on whatever pasture. Sheep do that, Nicole, you seem better than that.

[MisterVeritis]

You know who's actually selling us out to China? Trump. His and his daughter's products are made there. Jared tried to promise expedited visas if they would invest with him.

I don't have an opinion on McConnell, his wife or your paranoid fantasies about Biden. Don't try to justify it either. It's not the subject of this discussion.
Doing business with China as a business person is vastly different than doing business with China to sell influence.

[MisterVeritis]

If that were true, the congress would be taking it up with the FISA court. They have over-sight. It's their responsibility, but you didn't see the house intel committee even come close to suggesting that.
Actually, there has been quite a bit discovered by the House and Senate intelligence and judicial oversight committees. Senators Grassley and Senator Dufus (McCain's illegitimate son) from South Carolina have requested a special counsel to investigate the DOJ and FBI's use of unverified political opposition research as a pretext to spy on the Trump campaign.

[MisterVeritis]

I'm a progressive liberal. Not an extreme leftist, socialist, fascist or communist.
By your own words, you are an enemy of America's Constitutional government. Progressives in both parties do all they can to subvert the Constitution.

[Tahuyaman]

The cognitive dissonance the hard left shows routinely is amazing. Robert Mueller couldn't possibly be corrupt, he's part of the state and the state is God, they can do no wrong, yet Trump is a criminal despite being the highest ranking member of the state. Truly hilarious.

The goal of the establishment was to keep Trump from winning the election. They failed and that bothered them. Then their goal was to somehow delegitimize the election and deny him the win. They failed again and that angered them. After the inaguration their goal was to hound him out of office as soon as possible. Once again they failed and that really pissed them off. Now it's their goal to attempt to find something criminal to pin on him. It's backfiring and now all of their failures are becoming too frustrating for them to handle.

[Grokmaster]

The goal of the establishment was to keep Trump from winning the election. They failed and that bothered them. Then their goal was to somehow delegitimize the election and deny him the win. They failed again and that angered them. After the inaguration their goal was to hound him out of office as soon as possible. Once again they failed and that really pissed them off. Now it's their goal to attempt to find something criminal to pin on him. It's backfiring and now all of their failures are becoming too frustrating for them to handle.

Bingo!


23097

[Ethereal]

...refuses to defend our country from a foreign enemy.

Russia is not an "enemy". And weren't you JUST lecturing another poster about not viewing your opposition as an enemy? That is was counterproductive?

What sort of "defense" are you expecting anyway? Military confrontation? Covert "regime change" operations inside Russia? More sanctions and tough-guy rhetoric?


I never thought I'd see the day when the right/conservatives/Republicans would defend a president who is clearly in bed with Putin.

How is Trump "in bed" with Putin? You realize the USSR dissolved almost thirty years ago, right?


Putin is laughing his butt off at what a punk Trump is and how easy it was to make him one. "If he says great things about me, I'll say great things about him". Paraphrasing.

Actually, Putin does not find the situation comical at all. He constantly warns infantile western politicians that escalation between the USA and Russia is in the interests of neither country. And he is 100% correct. World security has depended heavily on stable and peaceful US-Russian relations for almost eighty years now. "Liberals" and "progressives" used to understand this during the cold war. But now that the cold war has been over for decades, "liberals" and "progressives" suddenly have the urge to become the modern incarnation of McCarthyism. Talk about irony!

[The Xl]

The goal of the establishment was to keep Trump from winning the election. They failed and that bothered them. Then their goal was to somehow delegitimize the election and deny him the win. They failed again and that angered them. After the inaguration their goal was to hound him out of office as soon as possible. Once again they failed and that really pissed them off. Now it's their goal to attempt to find something criminal to pin on him. It's backfiring and now all of their failures are becoming too frustrating for them to handle.
Realistically, if any of that is true, and it very apparently is, a huge amount of our government should be locked away for treason and other major crimes.

[Ethereal]

The cognitive dissonance the hard left shows routinely is amazing. Robert Mueller couldn't possibly be corrupt, he's part of the state and the state is God, they can do no wrong, yet Trump is a criminal despite being the highest ranking member of the state. Truly hilarious.
Liberals: The President of the United States is a racist traitor.

Also liberals: The US government is very competent and trustworthy.

[The Xl]

Liberals: The President of the United States is a racist traitor.

Also liberals: The US government is very competent and trustworthy.

It's hilarious. Every "conspiracy" against the government is dismissed as kooky or whatever, no matter what the evidence says, but anything Trump and his administration do is criminal according to these same people. It's as if they're bots or something, they have no awareness and no ability to think for themselves.

[MMC]

Liberals: The President of the United States is a racist traitor.

Also liberals: The US government is very competent and trustworthy.

Another one.....Trump is Hitler, a Tyrant. Yet they want to take away peoples guns. Go figure.

[Ethereal]

It's hilarious. Every "conspiracy" against the government is dismissed as kooky or whatever, no matter what the evidence says, but anything Trump and his administration do is criminal according to these same people. It's as if they're bots or something, they have no awareness and no ability to think for themselves.

It would be hilarious if it weren't so dangerous and damaging. But their unhinged hatred towards Russia is extremely perilous. Ironically enough, this is something liberals and progressives used to understand during the cold war. Now they couldn't care less. They are bereft of principle.

[Ethereal]

Another one.....Trump is Hitler, a Tyrant. Yet they want to take away peoples guns. Go figure.
Yes, I started a thread about that a while back. Democrats have so many contradictions that it's hard to keep track of them all. But I suspect that's rather the point.

[Grokmaster]

Yes, I started a thread about that a while back. Democrats have so many contradictions that it's hard to keep track of them all. But I suspect that's rather the point.

They are oblivious to the Pretzel Logic that they have been indoctrinated into; they think it "makes sense"....astoundingly.

[Nicole]

It's obvious that Trump was being investigated by the FBI prior to Comey's firing. They were indeed investigating the collusion meme.
Where is you proof?

I already offered proof that Trump was only personally under investigation after Comey was fired.

[Nicole]

Actually, there has been quite a bit discovered by the House and Senate intelligence and judicial oversight committees. Senators Grassley and Senator Dufus (McCain's illegitimate son) from South Carolina have requested a special counsel to investigate the DOJ and FBI's use of unverified political opposition research as a pretext to spy on the Trump campaign.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/christopher-steele-dossier-criminal-probe-request-390793


Two senior GOP senators on Monday released a copy of their request for a criminal probe of Christopher Steele, the author of a controversial dossier on President Donald Trump's ties to Russia, which alleges that he received information from an ally of Hillary Clinton while the Democrat's campaign was financing his work.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) released their referral (https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-02-02%20CEG%20LG%20to%20DOJ%20FBI%20(Unclassified%20S teele%20Referral).pdf) for a Steele investigation, sent last month, after approval from the FBI.
Grassley and Graham on Monday also asked the Department of Justice and FBI to declassify more information related to their Steele referral, including an application to conduct surveillance of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.
That surveillance application, Republicans have said, improperly involved research conducted by Steele that was paid for by the Clinton campaign. Republicans on Friday released a declassified memo they wrote on the subject.
They are concerned about Steele and the application of Carter Page. I’ll give you that it could lead to them taking it up with the FISA court. But they could get there faster by directly asking the FISA court to explain themselves. Oversight.

[Nicole]

By your own words, you are an enemy of America's Constitutional government. Progressives in both parties do all they can to subvert the Constitution.

Your personal beliefs have no power to deny me mine.

Or will you arm up, train up and come get me?

[Nicole]

Russia is not an "enemy". And weren't you JUST lecturing another poster about not viewing your opposition as an enemy? That is was counterproductive?

Russia? The country which meddled in our election, is not our enemy? Russia, who poisoned a former spy and his daughter in the U.K., is not our enemy (Article 5 of our NATO agreement). I didn’t say the USSR. I said Russia and Putin. They are our enemy. That you don’t see that, is not only amazing, but mystifying.

Yes I was. I am a citizen of this country, his fellow American. Not an enemy.


What sort of "defense" are you expecting anyway? Military confrontation? Covert "regime change" operations inside Russia? More sanctions and tough-guy rhetoric?

I expect Trump to lead the charge to harden security around our elections. They hacked into state election computers. Rogers, Wray, Coates and Pompeo when he was in his previous position, at the least, say they could be doing much, much more only Trump hasn’t given them order to do so. They can’t take actions that may result in reactions from Russia without the direction of the president. I expect our Commander-in-Chief to tell our national security agencies to do everything they can to protect us. Also, the Russians have been hacking our power grid.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/22/russians-hack-electric-grid-escalating-threat-wheres-battle-plan-column/446478002/

That cannot be ignored.


How is Trump "in bed" with Putin? You realize the USSR dissolved almost thirty years ago, right?
Actually, Putin does not find the situation comical at all. He constantly warns infantile western politicians that escalation between the USA and Russia is in the interests of neither country. And he is 100% correct. World security has depended heavily on stable and peaceful US-Russian relations for almost eighty years now. "Liberals" and "progressives" used to understand this during the cold war. But now that the cold war has been over for decades, "liberals" and "progressives" suddenly have the urge to become the modern incarnation of McCarthyism. Talk about irony!
Among the many things that are confounding, Trump will not hold Putin responsible fore, Trump will not, and I don't mean people in his administration, condemn Russia and Putin for poisoning the former agent and his daughter in the U.K. That's a very serious matter and he can't bring himself to say a bad word about Putin. Here's another, he wouldn't condemn Russia forced our state department to reduce staff by 755:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/why-wont-trump-criticize-putin/536556/


There was still not a word about Putin’s forced cuts at the U.S. embassy. Finally, on Thursday, Trump weighed in. His comments were surprising—not only did he not criticize Putin, but he thanked him:
I want to thank him because we’re trying to cut down our payroll, and as far as I’m concerned I’m very thankful that he let go a large number of people because now we have a smaller payroll. There's no real reason for them to go back. I greatly appreciate the fact that we’ve been able to cut our payroll of the United States. We’re going to save a lot of money.


Trump is in bed with Putin or Putin has something on him, he's afraid. Thanking Putin for throwing out our staff is beyond bizarre.

If Putin believes such a thing, it’s only words coming out of his mouth. His actions, against the U.S. and France as well as other nations, has been documented.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

You are actually going to defend Putin and Russia? Talk about irony. Reagan would be appalled to know this is where we’ve gotten in 30 years from his administration.

[Nicole]

Yes they are based on facts.....show me one Democrat that has been charged with a process crime.....besides General Flynn.
Mueller. Is. Not. Done. With. The. Investigation.

Flynn is a democrat who wanted to “lock her up”. Sure.

[Nicole]

Then laugh it up. Attempting to overturn an election is a coup.
You are just as much an enemy as they are. Are you not an anti-Constitutional leftist?
Are you not an anti-Constitutional Leftist?

This is untrue. Obama, Clinton, their inner circles, the Obama DOJ and Obama FBI along with the Obama DNI, NSA and CIA were all involved in the coup attempt. Mueller is an extension of the coup attempt, nothing more.

Conspiracy nonsense.

If you are a leftist you are anti-Constitutional. That makes you an enemy of the nation and its people.

Going to "arm up, train up" and come get me?


Show me the evidence.
Evidence of which? I said different things in that comment.

[Nicole]

If President Trump is under investigation what is the crime and what is the probable cause that indicates President Trump was involved in the crime? Let's begin there.I think Rosenstein should be censured and possibly fired over his role in this sordid affair.

Really? You already asked me this question, post #130 an I answered in post #136 here:
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/95813-New-Drudge-Poll-Overwhelmingly-Supports-Firing-Mueller/page11?p=2315179#post2315179
We don’t know if there was a crime, yet. Mueller isn’t done with his investigation yet.


Whatever makes you happy.

[MisterVeritis]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/christopher-steele-dossier-criminal-probe-request-390793

They are concerned about Steele and the application of Carter Page. I’ll give you that it could lead to them taking it up with the FISA court. But they could get there faster by directly asking the FISA court to explain themselves. Oversight.
The Congress does not view itself as having oversight of the courts. It does. But it seldom, if ever, conducts oversight.

The FISA Court needs to be censured. Then disbanded.

The DOJ and FBI cannot investigate their own misconduct. So we will have a special counsel to investigate the real matter of the way the FISC was abused by the Obama DOJ/FBI to spy on American citizens. I think people should face the death penalty for this.

[Crepitus]

Nah.....not even close. You forgot the excuses your kind makes Daily.


LMAO, Mueller.....Registered Republican.

Can you people really be this brainwashed?

I mean seriously. The dude is a republican. He has always been a republican. He was appointed to the FBI by a republican, appointed special counsel by another republican.

Wake up and smell the coffee!!

[Tahuyaman]

Where is you proof?

I already offered proof that Trump was only personally under investigation after Comey was fired.


There is testimony under oath.

[MisterVeritis]

Your personal beliefs have no power to deny me mine.

Or will you arm up, train up and come get me?
The purpose of arming, training, and banding together is to prevent you and yours from coming to get me.

Are you familiar with the Second Amendment?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

People who believe as you do are the reason we need it.

[MisterVeritis]

Russia? The country which meddled in our election, is not our enemy? Russia, who poisoned a former spy and his daughter in the U.K., is not our enemy (Article 5 of our NATO agreement). I didn’t say the USSR. I said Russia and Putin. They are our enemy. That you don’t see that, is not only amazing, but mystifying.

Yes I was. I am a citizen of this country, his fellow American. Not an enemy.



I expect Trump to lead the charge to harden security around our elections. They hacked into state election computers. Rogers, Wray, Coates and Pompeo when he was in his previous position, at the least, say they could be doing much, much more only Trump hasn’t given them order to do so. They can’t take actions that may result in reactions from Russia without the direction of the president. I expect our Commander-in-Chief to tell our national security agencies to do everything they can to protect us. Also, the Russians have been hacking our power grid.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/22/russians-hack-electric-grid-escalating-threat-wheres-battle-plan-column/446478002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/22/russians-hack-electric-grid-escalating-threat-wheres-battle-plan-column/446478002/)

That cannot be ignored.


Among the many things that are confounding, Trump will not hold Putin responsible fore, Trump will not, and I don't mean people in his administration, condemn Russia and Putin for poisoning the former agent and his daughter in the U.K. That's a very serious matter and he can't bring himself to say a bad word about Putin. Here's another, he wouldn't condemn Russia forced our state department to reduce staff by 755:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/why-wont-trump-criticize-putin/536556/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/why-wont-trump-criticize-putin/536556/)

Trump is in bed with Putin or Putin has something on him, he's afraid. Thanking Putin for throwing out our staff is beyond bizarre.

If Putin believes such a thing, it’s only words coming out of his mouth. His actions, against the U.S. and France as well as other nations, has been documented.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/)

You are actually going to defend Putin and Russia? Talk about irony. Reagan would be appalled to know this is where we’ve gotten in 30 years from his administration.
Nearly all of this is kook stuff.

[MisterVeritis]

Really? You already asked me this question, post #130 an I answered in post #136 here:
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/95813-New-Drudge-Poll-Overwhelmingly-Supports-Firing-Mueller/page11?p=2315179#post2315179
We don’t know if there was a crime, yet. Mueller isn’t done with his investigation yet.
Whatever makes you happy.
If we do not know there is a crime then a special counsel is a breach of the DOJ's rules and Rosenstein needs to be fired and sent packing.

Police States give someone a list of names and tell the prosecutor to go find crimes. You are a tyrant wannabe.

[Tahuyaman]

Mueller. Is. Not. Done. With. The. Investigation.

Flynn is a democrat who wanted to “lock her up”. Sure.


Meuller. Is. Not. Finding. Anything. Which. Is. Remotely. Relevant. To. The. Original. Purpose. Of. The. Investigation.

[Nicole]

The Congress does not view itself as having oversight of the courts. It does. But it seldom, if ever, conducts oversight.

The FISA Court needs to be censured. Then disbanded.

The DOJ and FBI cannot investigate their own misconduct. So we will have a special counsel to investigate the real matter of the way the FISC was abused by the Obama DOJ/FBI to spy on American citizens. I think people should face the death penalty for this.

There are no words for how wrong that is.

[Nicole]

There is testimony under oath.

Then show me that testimony.

[Nicole]

The purpose of arming, training, and banding together is to prevent you and yours from coming to get me.

Are you familiar with the Second Amendment?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I'm not coming to get you.

Yes, why?

Yes, so?


People who believe as you do are the reason we need it.

So you can kill me, your fellow American, if I politically disagree with you? You're insane.

[MisterVeritis]

The DOJ and FBI cannot investigate their own misconduct. So we will have a special counsel to investigate the real matter of the way the FISC was abused by the Obama DOJ/FBI to spy on American citizens. I think people should face the death penalty for this.

There are no words for how wrong that is.
Do you prefer a police state?

Some hangings or firing squads will stop this for decades. I think every coup plotter from Obama on down should face the death penalty for their role in spying on Americans, unmasking them without intelligence reasons, and attempting to overturn an election.

Lots of blood needs to run. Coup supporter should face prison for the rest of their lives. Coup cheerleaders, people like you should face heavy fines.

[Nicole]

Nearly all of this is kook stuff.

Which part?
Russia meddled in our elections?
I expect our National Security Agencies to protect us?
Trump won't hold Putin to account for meddling in our election or poisoning a former agent with a power nerve agent on British soil?

[MisterVeritis]

I'm not coming to get you.
Yes, why?
Yes, so?
So you can kill me, your fellow American, if I politically disagree with you? You're insane.
You claim you are not coming. But you will. Eventually. People like you always do.

[MisterVeritis]

Which part?
Russia meddled in our elections?
I expect our National Security Agencies to protect us?
Trump won't hold Putin to account for meddling in our election or poisoning a former agent with a power nerve agent on British soil?
Nearly all of it.

[Nicole]

If we do not know there is a crime then a special counsel is a breach of the DOJ's rules and Rosenstein needs to be fired and sent packing.
Police States give someone a list of names and tell the prosecutor to go find crimes. You are a tyrant wannabe.

There are more than enough cause to investigate. Rosenstein agreed. McConnell and Ryan agree to keep it going. Many indictment have been filed, there is evidence of crimes in those indictments which you keep ignoring. Mueller is not finished, but he's made fine progress.

That's true, but it's not happening here. You partisan hack.

[MisterVeritis]

Which part?
Russia meddled in our elections?
Nearly every nation, including the US attempts to influence other nation's elections.

I expect our National Security Agencies to protect us?
The NSA gathers communications and electronic intelligence.

Trump won't hold Putin to account for meddling in our election or poisoning a former agent with a power nerve agent on British soil?
What are you hoping he will do? Nuclear war? Invasion? What specifically?

Kook stuff.

[Nicole]

Meuller. Is. Not. Finding. Anything. Which. Is. Remotely. Relevant. To. The. Original. Purpose. Of. The. Investigation.

That is not a fact. The investigation is not finished. You are indulging in wishful and magical thinking. When it's over, we will all know.

[MisterVeritis]

There are more than enough cause to investigate. Rosenstein agreed. McConnell and Ryan agree to keep it going. Many indictment have been filed, there is evidence of crimes in those indictments which you keep ignoring. Mueller is not finished, but he's made fine progress.

That's true, but it's not happening here. You partisan hack.
If there is a crime and probable cause why are you having difficulty showing me what it was?

[MisterVeritis]

Nicole: We don’t know if there was a crime, yet.

MV: If we do not know there is a crime then a special counsel is a breach of the DOJ's rules and Rosenstein needs to be fired and sent packing.

Police States give someone a list of names and tell the prosecutor to go find crimes. You are a tyrant wannabe.



That's true, but it's not happening here. You partisan hack.
I believe you suffer from a mental disorder.

[Dr. Who]

In the midst of all of this partisan hyperbole, let's not forget the fact that the current publicized Russian investigation ultimately originated with Wikileaks revelations regarding the hacking of DNC servers. Wikileaks is believed, at least by US intelligence, to be a front for Russian military intelligence.

Unfortunately, in Russia ex-KGB are now financial magnates and yet still tied to the (Putin) government so their activities are suspect and by default their business dealings with Americans (such as Trump et al). The investigators will pursue every thread that is pulled to its conclusion. That is the nature of investigations. Losing one's water over the fact that the investigation has pulled in Trump (and family) because of his extensive dealings with Russian financiers was bound to happen because those financiers are involved in other activities. Assuming that the investigation is a specific plot against Trump belies the fact that the US government has been investigating Wikileaks for the last ten years.

[MisterVeritis]

In the midst of all of this partisan hyperbole, let's not forget the fact that the current publicized Russian investigation ultimately originated with Wikileaks revelations regarding the hacking of DNC servers. Wikileaks is believed, at least by US intelligence, to be a front for Russian military intelligence.
What evidence do you have that the Crooked Hillary's, I mean the DNC's servers were hacked?

Second, what evidence do you have that Wikileaks is a Russian front?

[Ethereal]

Russia? The country which meddled in our election, is not our enemy? Russia, who poisoned a former spy and his daughter in the U.K., is not our enemy (Article 5 of our NATO agreement). I didn't say the USSR. I said Russia and Putin. They are our enemy. That you don't see that, is not only amazing, but mystifying.

I didn't see how Iraq was our enemy either. I have this strange tendency to think for myself. That means I don't mindlessly accept whatever narrative is being pushed on me by the corrupt and deceitful political establishment.

As it stands, there is zero proof that the Russian state did either of the things you allege. It's nothing more than allegations made by the same institutions who told us that Saddam Hussein had "weapons of mass destruction". What's truly mystifying is how anyone could still have faith in the integrity of the "intelligence" community and the corporate media after all the lies they've told.


Yes I was. I am a citizen of this country, his fellow American. Not an enemy.

What makes you his "fellow" American, exactly? Aside from the fact that you were both born in the same arbitrarily defined geographic region?


I expect Trump to lead the charge to harden security around our elections. They hacked into state election computers. Rogers, Wray, Coates and Pompeo when he was in his previous position, at the least, say they could be doing much, much more only Trump hasn't given them order to do so. They can't take actions that may result in reactions from Russia without the direction of the president. I expect our Commander-in-Chief to tell our national security agencies to do everything they can to protect us.

But what should be done to Russia? You claim they are our enemy, so what implications does that have for US-Russian relations moving forward?


Also, the Russians have been hacking our power grid.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/03/22/russians-hack-electric-grid-escalating-threat-wheres-battle-plan-column/446478002/

That cannot be ignored.

I will ignore it because I don't believe anything the government tells me unless there is indisputable proof backing up their inflammatory and agenda-driven allegations.


Among the many things that are confounding, Trump will not hold Putin responsible fore, Trump will not, and I don't mean people in his administration, condemn Russia and Putin for poisoning the former agent and his daughter in the U.K. That's a very serious matter and he can't bring himself to say a bad word about Putin. Here's another, he wouldn't condemn Russia forced our state department to reduce staff by 755:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/why-wont-trump-criticize-putin/536556/

Trump is in bed with Putin or Putin has something on him, he's afraid. Thanking Putin for throwing out our staff is beyond bizarre.

If Putin believes such a thing, it’s only words coming out of his mouth. His actions, against the U.S. and France as well as other nations, has been documented.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

You are actually going to defend Putin and Russia? Talk about irony. Reagan would be appalled to know this is where we’ve gotten in 30 years from his administration.

Yes, Reagan would be appalled... by you.

You see, a large part of Reagan's strategy towards the Soviets was diplomatic in nature. He BEFRIENDED Mikhail Gorbachev and used that friendship to PERSUADE the Soviets of the US position. The two leaders were positively chummy with one another. One might even say they were "in bed" together.

https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2017/06/11/Reagan_and_Gorbachev_in_western_hats-900_c1-0-899-524_s885x516.jpg?1916ee1ebbb5f59c5cdbd968aa26f6d6a 32c7c1e

[Ethereal]

Conspiracy nonsense.

You realize how ironic that is coming from someone who thinks the President of the United States is "in bed" with Putin, right?

[Ethereal]

In the midst of all of this partisan hyperbole, let's not forget the fact that the current publicized Russian investigation ultimately originated with Wikileaks revelations regarding the hacking of DNC servers.

The Wikileaks revelations came from the hacking of John Podesta's email account, not the DNC's servers. The alleged hack of the DNC's servers produced no revelations of any kind. What it did produce was a convenient and timely pretext for the Clinton campaign to go around shouting "Russia, Russia, Russia" every two seconds.


Wikileaks is believed, at least by US intelligence, to be a front for Russian military intelligence.

And, of course, there isn't an ounce of proof to back that belief up.


Unfortunately, in Russia ex-KGB are now financial magnates and yet still tied to the (Putin) government so their activities are suspect and by default their business dealings with Americans (such as Trump et al). The investigators will pursue every thread that is pulled to its conclusion. That is the nature of investigations. Losing one's water over the fact that the investigation has pulled in Trump (and family) because of his extensive dealings with Russian financiers was bound to happen because those financiers are involved in other activities. Assuming that the investigation is a specific plot against Trump belies the fact that the US government has been investigating Wikileaks for the last ten years.

The US government has been investigating Wikileaks because Wikileaks tells people the truth about the liars in government using the government's own sources and documents.

[Tahuyaman]

That is not a fact. The investigation is not finished. You are indulging in wishful and magical thinking. When it's over, we will all know.

It is a fact that zero Trump /Russia collusion has been discovered. He's not even looking for that any more.

The investigation will be over in either 2020 or 2024 If Meuller has his way.

[Dr. Who]

What evidence do you have that the Crooked Hillary's, I mean the DNC's servers were hacked?

Second, what evidence do you have that Wikileaks is a Russian front?
I don't have an informed opinion on either, nor has anyone but Wikileaks themselves. I am repeating what was revealed as the intended purpose of the investigation, before Trump's name was dragged into it. It's also no secret that US intelligence has been freaking out about Wikileaks for a number of years and has been leaving no stone unturned in trying to shut them down. That the FBI has been dragged into investigating every allegation and anomaly is hardly surprising. Attributing it to partisan politics is convenient but not necessarily valid.

[Tahuyaman]

In the midst of all of this partisan hyperbole, let's not forget the fact that the current publicized Russian investigation ultimately originated with Wikileaks revelations regarding the hacking of DNC servers....


To this day, no US intelligence or law enforcement agency has had acces to the DNC's server to determine whether or not their server was even hacked at all. There's a reason law enforcement was denied access after several requests. What do you suppose that reason is?

[MisterVeritis]

I don't have an informed opinion on either, nor has anyone but Wikileaks themselves. I am repeating what was revealed as the intended purpose of the investigation, before Trump's name was dragged into it. It's also no secret that US intelligence has been freaking out about Wikileaks for a number of years and has been leaving no stone unturned in trying to shut them down. That the FBI has been dragged into investigating every allegation and anomaly is hardly surprising. Attributing it to partisan politics is convenient but not necessarily valid.
Okay. So there is still no evidence that the DNC servers were hacked by anybody, much less the Russians.

Nor is there evidence that Wikileaks is a Russian Front organization.

[Common Sense]

The conservative news outlet Drudge Report's readers support the firing of Mueller? Shocking!

[MisterVeritis]

The conservative news outlet Drudge Report's readers support the firing of Mueller? Shocking!
Do only Conservatives use Drudge? Interesting. I cannot recall them ever asking me my political affiliation before I clicked a link.

[Tahuyaman]

Which part?
Russia meddled in our elections?
I expect our National Security Agencies to protect us?
Trump won't hold Putin to account for meddling in our election or poisoning a former agent with a power nerve agent on British soil?


How should Trump hold Putin accountable? By placing sanctions on Russia?



Shouldn't Obama be held accountable for doing nothing about a problem which was supposedly mounting on his watch?

[Common Sense]

Do only Conservatives use Drudge? Interesting. I cannot recall them ever asking me my political affiliation before I clicked a link.
Do you think it's an impartial news source? I said the source was conservative. I didn't claim anything about its readers. However it would be logical to assume it draws a conservative audience.

[Dr. Who]

To this day, no US intelligence or law enforcement agency has had acces to the DNC's server to determine whether or not their server was even hacked at all. There's a reason law enforcement was denied access after several requests. What do you suppose that reason is?
I presume that they claim some sort of privilege over what is on the server, but I don't the reason specifically.

[Tahuyaman]

I presume that they claim some sort of privilege over what is on the server, but I don't the reason specifically.

I presume that there's something they are hiding.

[Tahuyaman]

Do you think it's an impartial news source? I said the source was conservative. I didn't claim anything about its readers. However it would be logical to assume it draws a conservative audience.

The Drudge Report provides links to just about every source of news world wide. Nearly every political commentator of every stripe can be accessed there. Do you oppose people having the option to receive more and more information from every viewpoint?

[Dr. Who]

Okay. So there is still no evidence that the DNC servers were hacked by anybody, much less the Russians.

Nor is there evidence that Wikileaks is a Russian Front organization.

Well, there is also no evidence to the contrary either, but since hacking is a resource utilized by many governments, including the US, it's a pretty safe bet that they at least tried. As to whether Wikileaks is independent or not - I have no idea, but I can see why they would freak out the intelligence community.

[MisterVeritis]

Do you think it's an impartial news source? I said the source was conservative. I didn't claim anything about its readers. However it would be logical to assume it draws a conservative audience.
Drudge is a news aggregator.

[MisterVeritis]

Well, there is also no evidence to the contrary either, but since hacking is a resource utilized by many governments, including the US, it's a pretty safe bet that they at least tried. As to whether Wikileaks is independent or not - I have no idea, but I can see why they would freak out the intelligence community.
Okay. I imagine you did not intend to make such a goofy statement.

There is no evidence a server was not hacked. LOL.