Confiscation: Oregon Initiative Seeks To Ban Semiautomatic Rifles, Mandate Current -

[MMC]

- Owners To Turn Them Over.....


After the tragic school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on February 14, which left 17 people dead, the calls for new gun laws have reached a fever pitch again. Of course, Congress will pass no new laws on the subject. There’s no need, as it’s becoming increasingly clear that enforcement of the current laws that could have prevented shooter Nikolas Cruz from obtaining firearms was egregiously absent. Federal, state, and local authorities failed miserably to act upon the many red flags presented by this disturbed man. Yet, at the state-level, it’s a different ballgame.


In Oregon, a new initiative from a religious group is taking it a step forward. They want to ban any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, and that can hold more than ten rounds. They also want current owners of these firearms, law-abiding Americans, to take them out of the state, register them, sell it to a FFL dealer, destroy it, or turn them over. That’s right, folks—full-blown gun confiscation. Right now, the anti-gun church group is collecting signatures. The hope is that they fall short (via KGW8 (http://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/oregon-initiative-would-ban-assault-weapons-require-owners-to-surrender-certain-guns/283-530640255)):


Filed by an interfaith religious group in Portland, Initiative Petition 42 would also require legal gun owners to surrender or register their assault weapons or face felony charges, according to language released Tuesday.
The group said it aims to get enough signatures to put the measure before voters in the November general election. They would need 88,000 signatures by July 6 to get the measure on the ballot.
The proposal defines an assault weapon as any semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any feature like folding or telescoping stock, or that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.
The proposal would require any person in legal possession of an assault weapon to sell, surrender or remove the weapon from the state, or render it inoperable, within 120 days of passage, according to the language.


Oh, and of course, the police and military are exempt. Even Oregon Democrats aren’t going near this because they know the political consequences, said state Rep. Bill Post. It captures what everyone on the conservative, gun rights-supporting side has always known about the gun control movement: their agenda is confiscation and the abolition of the Second Amendment. It’s why we can’t trust them—and never should. There are no good people of faith on this subject. Do I wish we could have a debate on gun politics? Yes—but not with insane people. Also, to the people in the video who support the “assault rifle” ban, they’re already banned. No new sales of automatic rifles post-1986 are permitted. Those who obtain an ATF tax stamp for weapons under the 1934 National Firearms Act, which includes automatic firearms, must go through a background check, have their weapon registered with the ATF, and pay the fee. The process could take up to a year or more, but, again, these transfers are only for weapons pre-1986.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/22/confiscation-oregon-initiative-bans-so-called-assault-weapons-mandates-current-n2463470



And so it begins.....Of course hoping the measure fails doesn't stop these anti gun nuts from repeating their efforts. Time for some public humiliation is in order. Get their names.....and make sure they are given out to We the People. Let We the people deal with them. What say ye?

[roadmaster]

Christians don't believe in giving up gun rights, speech or anything else. These interfaith groups are deceptions.

[Tahuyaman]

But I thought no one wanted to confiscate any firearms from laws abiding people?

[MisterVeritis]

The first step is to find people who can explain liberty to Oregonians.

[Crepitus]

I blame the rwnjs and the NRA.

[donttread]

- Owners To Turn Them Over.....


After the tragic school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on February 14, which left 17 people dead, the calls for new gun laws have reached a fever pitch again. Of course, Congress will pass no new laws on the subject. There’s no need, as it’s becoming increasingly clear that enforcement of the current laws that could have prevented shooter Nikolas Cruz from obtaining firearms was egregiously absent. Federal, state, and local authorities failed miserably to act upon the many red flags presented by this disturbed man. Yet, at the state-level, it’s a different ballgame.


In Oregon, a new initiative from a religious group is taking it a step forward. They want to ban any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, and that can hold more than ten rounds. They also want current owners of these firearms, law-abiding Americans, to take them out of the state, register them, sell it to a FFL dealer, destroy it, or turn them over. That’s right, folks—full-blown gun confiscation. Right now, the anti-gun church group is collecting signatures. The hope is that they fall short (via KGW8 (http://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/oregon-initiative-would-ban-assault-weapons-require-owners-to-surrender-certain-guns/283-530640255)):


Filed by an interfaith religious group in Portland, Initiative Petition 42 would also require legal gun owners to surrender or register their assault weapons or face felony charges, according to language released Tuesday.
The group said it aims to get enough signatures to put the measure before voters in the November general election. They would need 88,000 signatures by July 6 to get the measure on the ballot.
The proposal defines an assault weapon as any semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any feature like folding or telescoping stock, or that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.
The proposal would require any person in legal possession of an assault weapon to sell, surrender or remove the weapon from the state, or render it inoperable, within 120 days of passage, according to the language.


Oh, and of course, the police and military are exempt. Even Oregon Democrats aren’t going near this because they know the political consequences, said state Rep. Bill Post. It captures what everyone on the conservative, gun rights-supporting side has always known about the gun control movement: their agenda is confiscation and the abolition of the Second Amendment. It’s why we can’t trust them—and never should. There are no good people of faith on this subject. Do I wish we could have a debate on gun politics? Yes—but not with insane people. Also, to the people in the video who support the “assault rifle” ban, they’re already banned. No new sales of automatic rifles post-1986 are permitted. Those who obtain an ATF tax stamp for weapons under the 1934 National Firearms Act, which includes automatic firearms, must go through a background check, have their weapon registered with the ATF, and pay the fee. The process could take up to a year or more, but, again, these transfers are only for weapons pre-1986.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/22/confiscation-oregon-initiative-bans-so-called-assault-weapons-mandates-current-n2463470



And so it begins.....Of course hoping the measure fails doesn't stop these anti gun nuts from repeating their efforts. Time for some public humiliation is in order. Get their names.....and make sure they are given out to We the People. Let We the people deal with them. What say ye?


Try resisting tyranny without semi-auto.

[Grokmaster]

I blame the rwnjs and the NRA.


Of course...because of all the shootings NRA members have been involved on ,BESIDES stopping bad guys right?


Der....


I blame the ACTUAL LEFTIST IDITS, who are ACTUALLY PROPOSING THIS OUTRAGE....MOLON LABE..

[Tahuyaman]

I blame the rwnjs and the NRA.

Of course you do. LWNJ’s are never at fault for their own actions.

[nathanbforrest45]

But I thought no one wanted to confiscate any firearms from laws abiding people?


They aren't confiscating these guns. People are going to do the right thing and voluntarily turn them in or destroy them.

[nathanbforrest45]

I blame the rwnjs and the NRA.

I blame ignorant people who will follow like sheep those who would lead them to slaughter.

[Chloe]

To me it doesn't go far enough since I'd rather the overturning of the 2nd amendment, but that's not happening anytime soon unfortunately. The simple truth is that millions of Americans would rather protect an object meant for killing over helping to create a nation where guns don't define our culture and our way of life anymore.

[Crepitus]

Of course you do. LWNJ’s are never at fault for their own actions.

Oh yeah, we've made plenty of mistakes. This isn't one of them.

[Crepitus]

I blame ignorant people who will follow like sheep those who would lead them to slaughter.

Trump supporters?

[nathanbforrest45]

To me it doesn't go far enough since I'd rather the overturning of the 2nd amendment, but that's not happening anytime soon unfortunately. The simple truth is that millions of Americans would rather protect an object meant for killing over helping to create a nation where guns don't define our culture and our way of life anymore.


I would love to see the Ist Amendment repealed, along with the 4th, and 5th. I think government has every right to ban all Christian religions as being terrorist organizations. I believe the police should have the right to torture confessions out of child molesters and I think law enforcement should be able to search anyone anytime for any reason. Furthermore, the entire idea of double jeopardy should be abolished. The courts should have as many times as it takes to convict someone accused of a crime..

[nathanbforrest45]

Trump supporters?

Well, that is certainly a well thought out post wasn't it.

[Crepitus]

Well, that is certainly a well thought out post wasn't it.

It was a question, although a leading one I will admit.

I asked because trump supporters are the most ignorant, sheep-like people I know.

[Chloe]

I would love to see the Ist Amendment repealed, along with the 4th, and 5th. I think government has every right to ban all Christian religions as being terrorist organizations. I believe the police should have the right to torture confessions out of child molesters and I think law enforcement should be able to search anyone anytime for any reason. Furthermore, the entire idea of double jeopardy should be abolished. The courts should have as many times as it takes to convict someone accused of a crime..
The heart wants what it wants.

[nathanbforrest45]

The heart wants what it wants.

What the hell, while we are at it lets just abolish the entire Constitution, its old and outdated and written by rich white guys anyway.

[Tahuyaman]

Of course you do. LWNJ’s are never at fault for their own actions.


Oh yeah, we've made plenty of mistakes. This isn't one of them.

"We've"? Are you finally willing to admit that you are a LWNJ?

[Chloe]

What the hell, while we are at it lets just abolish the entire Constitution, its old and outdated and written by rich white guys anyway.

Hyperbole for the win.

[Tahuyaman]

I would love to see the Ist Amendment repealed, along with the 4th, and 5th. I think government has every right to ban all Christian religions as being terrorist organizations. I believe the police should have the right to torture confessions out of child molesters and I think law enforcement should be able to search anyone anytime for any reason. Furthermore, the entire idea of double jeopardy should be abolished. The courts should have as many times as it takes to convict someone accused of a crime..

Uh..... Forget it.....

[Ethereal]

To me it doesn't go far enough since I'd rather the overturning of the 2nd amendment, but that's not happening anytime soon unfortunately. The simple truth is that millions of Americans would rather protect an object meant for killing over helping to create a nation where guns don't define our culture and our way of life anymore.
A well-armed population is the only effective defense of our rights and freedoms. The kind of danger we face from isolated incidents of random violence is nothing compared to the danger we face from systematic, institutionalized violence.

[Crepitus]

"We've"? Are you finally willing to admit that you are a LWNJ?

As soon as you own up to being a tRumpkin.

[Cletus]

To me it doesn't go far enough since I'd rather the overturning of the 2nd amendment, but that's not happening anytime soon unfortunately. The simple truth is that millions of Americans would rather protect an object meant for killing over helping to create a nation where guns don't define our culture and our way of life anymore.

The simple truth is that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.

[Common Sense]

- Owners To Turn Them Over.....


After the tragic school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on February 14, which left 17 people dead, the calls for new gun laws have reached a fever pitch again. Of course, Congress will pass no new laws on the subject. There’s no need, as it’s becoming increasingly clear that enforcement of the current laws that could have prevented shooter Nikolas Cruz from obtaining firearms was egregiously absent. Federal, state, and local authorities failed miserably to act upon the many red flags presented by this disturbed man. Yet, at the state-level, it’s a different ballgame.


In Oregon, a new initiative from a religious group is taking it a step forward. They want to ban any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, and that can hold more than ten rounds. They also want current owners of these firearms, law-abiding Americans, to take them out of the state, register them, sell it to a FFL dealer, destroy it, or turn them over. That’s right, folks—full-blown gun confiscation. Right now, the anti-gun church group is collecting signatures. The hope is that they fall short (via KGW8 (http://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/oregon-initiative-would-ban-assault-weapons-require-owners-to-surrender-certain-guns/283-530640255)):


Filed by an interfaith religious group in Portland, Initiative Petition 42 would also require legal gun owners to surrender or register their assault weapons or face felony charges, according to language released Tuesday.
The group said it aims to get enough signatures to put the measure before voters in the November general election. They would need 88,000 signatures by July 6 to get the measure on the ballot.
The proposal defines an assault weapon as any semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any feature like folding or telescoping stock, or that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.
The proposal would require any person in legal possession of an assault weapon to sell, surrender or remove the weapon from the state, or render it inoperable, within 120 days of passage, according to the language.


Oh, and of course, the police and military are exempt. Even Oregon Democrats aren’t going near this because they know the political consequences, said state Rep. Bill Post. It captures what everyone on the conservative, gun rights-supporting side has always known about the gun control movement: their agenda is confiscation and the abolition of the Second Amendment. It’s why we can’t trust them—and never should. There are no good people of faith on this subject. Do I wish we could have a debate on gun politics? Yes—but not with insane people. Also, to the people in the video who support the “assault rifle” ban, they’re already banned. No new sales of automatic rifles post-1986 are permitted. Those who obtain an ATF tax stamp for weapons under the 1934 National Firearms Act, which includes automatic firearms, must go through a background check, have their weapon registered with the ATF, and pay the fee. The process could take up to a year or more, but, again, these transfers are only for weapons pre-1986.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/22/confiscation-oregon-initiative-bans-so-called-assault-weapons-mandates-current-n2463470



And so it begins.....Of course hoping the measure fails doesn't stop these anti gun nuts from repeating their efforts. Time for some public humiliation is in order. Get their names.....and make sure they are given out to We the People. Let We the people deal with them. What say ye?
So what begins? Some interfaith organization calling for it means nothing.

Some people love to tilt at anecdotes.

[Chloe]

A well-armed population is the only effective defense of our rights and freedoms. The kind of danger we face from isolated incidents of random violence is nothing compared to the danger we face from systematic, institutionalized violence.
Voting in ethical and good people is the most effective defense of our rights and freedoms. If we need guns to ensure that then we are doing something wrong and our democracy...err republic...is a facade.

[Tahuyaman]

The simple truth is that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.


She's part of the Kumbaya crowd.

[Chloe]

The simple truth is that you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.

I see you quickly deleted that second part.

[Tahuyaman]

Voting in ethical and good people is the most effective defense of our rights and freedoms. If we need guns to ensure that then we are doing something wrong and our democracy...err republic...is a facade.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA

[Common Sense]

I'll take Kumbaya over Paranoid.

[Cletus]

I see you quickly deleted that second part.

I did. I can post it again if you want.

I was trying to be nice. I realized that even though it was appropriate, it was kind of harsh.

[Tahuyaman]

I'll take Kumbaya over Paranoid.


How is supporting the second amendment demonstrating paranoia?

[Ethereal]

Voting in ethical and good people is the most effective defense of our rights and freedoms.

Even good people can become corrupted by power. Someone who starts out with good intentions may be seduced by the lures of wealth and privilege. Relying solely on the goodness of those who rule over you puts you in a position of extreme vulnerability.


If we need guns to ensure that then we are doing something wrong and our democracy...err republic...is a facade.

Republics and democracies do not transform men into angels, nor do they eliminate the corrupting influence of power.

[Ethereal]

I'll take Kumbaya over Paranoid.
There is nothing "paranoid" about believing in the importance and necessity of a well-armed population.

[Common Sense]

How is supporting the second amendment demonstrating paranoia?

Thinking that a petition by a Church group in Portland is the beginning of mass confiscation is indeed paranoia.

[Tahuyaman]

Thinking that a petition by a Church group in Portland is the beginning of mass confiscation is indeed paranoia.


Incrementalism. Its real and it spreads.

[Chloe]

Even good people can become corrupted by power. Someone who starts out with good intentions may be seduced by the lures of wealth and privilege. Relying solely on the goodness of those who rule over you puts you in a position of extreme vulnerability.



Republics and democracies do not transform men into angels, nor do they eliminate the corrupting influence of power.
I agree that good people can be corrupted by power but when there are almost more guns in this country than there are citizens that should tell us a lot about our culture and the direction of this country's priorities. Everybody is so preoccupied with defending an object over fixing our culture, which in my opinion, is pretty disgusting. That's not just solely based on the gun culture but many aspects of this country's culture.

[Common Sense]

Incrementalism. Its real and it spreads.

Anecdotes don't mean much.

[Tahuyaman]

Anecdotes don't mean much.

Incrementalism is an anecdote? It is real. It’s how the left realizes their dreams. Liberals are very patient.

[Common Sense]

Incrementalism is an anecdote? It is real. It’s how the left realizes their dreams. Liberals are very patient.

The story is an anecdote.

Its not much different than a story about a Republican saying something racist and coming to the conclusion that Republicans are all racists.

[Ethereal]

I agree that good people can be corrupted by power...

Hence the need for arms. Human history is characterized by periodic disasters, massacres, and atrocities, the burden of which tends to fall disproportionately on the most powerless members in society. Arms in the hands of common people serves to empower them more than any other thing I can think of.


...but when there are almost more guns in this country than there are citizens that should tell us a lot about our culture and the direction of this country's priorities. Everybody is so preoccupied with defending an object over fixing our culture, which in my opinion, is pretty disgusting. That's not just solely based on the gun culture but many aspects of this country's culture.

People have a good reason to be preoccupied with the defense of an essential right. And we can take steps to improve certain aspects of our culture without imperiling that right.

[Cletus]

Anecdotes don't mean much.

To anyone interested in the facts, they mean a lot.

[Cletus]

The story is an anecdote.

Its not much different than a story about a Republican saying something racist and coming to the conclusion that Republicans are all racists.

That is not the fault of the anecdote. That is the fault of the dumb ass who jumps to conclusions.

[Common Sense]

To anyone interested in the facts, they mean a lot.

Not really. They do infuriate some people, but in reality they don't mean much.

It's easy to take one small story and to think it indicates a wider trend, but it's usually not accurate.

[Standing Wolf]

While no Constitutional right is absolute, I believe the State must demonstrate the reasonableness of any limit or restriction to such a right before imposing it. With between five and ten million so-called "assault-style weapons" legally owned in the United States and only a handful of instances, from year to year, of one of them being used to commit any sort of criminal act, one would be hard pressed to make a case for banning them as being innately or inherently too dangerous for anyone to legally possess.

[Common Sense]

That is not the fault of the anecdote. That is the fault of the dumb ass who jumps to conclusions.
No shit.

Its funny that it's "jumping to conclusions" if all conservatives are judged by the words of a few, but if a few liberals do something, it's an indicator of a broader trend.

[Common Sense]

While no Constitutional right is absolute, I believe the State must demonstrate the reasonableness of any limit or restriction to such a right before imposing it. With between five and ten million so-called "assault-style weapons" legally owned in the United States and only a handful of instances, from year to year, of one of them being used to commit any sort of criminal act, one would be hard pressed to make a case for banning them as being innately or inherently too dangerous for anyone to legally possess.
I agree.

...but so far all we have is a interfaith group with a petition.

[Standing Wolf]

I agree.

...but so far all we have is a interfaith group with a petition.

Of course...and I understand what you mean when you note the way some folks will engage in exaggeration and stereotyping in ascribing a view to an entire demographic because one or a few individuals make the news expressing that view. The teacher - in another recent thread - who ranted against military personnel becomes, in some minds, proof that "the left hates the military". Here, as you say, an "interfaith group with a petition" is all we have. If it survives the referendum process and becomes law, it will be struck down by the courts before it is ever enforced. And you can be sure that at least some of the judges involved in that decision will be liberals.

[jimmyz]

It was a question, although a leading one I will admit.

I asked because trump supporters are the most ignorant, sheep-like people I know.
LOL Yet they rule. It must make you feel marginalized. lol

[Cletus]

Not really. They do infuriate some people, but in reality they don't mean much.

Again, you are wrong.

Anecdotal evidence, if properly vetted, can be invaluable.


It's easy to take one small story and to think it indicates a wider trend, but it's usually not accurate.

I'll let you try to figure out where you are going wrong. Try it and if you can't do it, ask and I will help you.

[jimmyz]

Voting in ethical and good people is the most effective defense of our rights and freedoms. If we need guns to ensure that then we are doing something wrong and our democracy...err republic...is a facade.

You have adroitly described the ill that has affected our government establishment these last (forever) years.

[Cletus]

No shit.

If you knew that, why did you blame the anecdote?

Its funny that it's "jumping to conclusions" if all conservatives are judged by the words of a few, but if a few liberals do something, it's an indicator of a broader trend.
Sounds to me like you jumped to a conclusion... an unfounded one, at that.

[Common Sense]

If you knew that, why did you blame the anecdote?

Sounds to me like you jumped to a conclusion... an unfounded one, at that.

If you read what I wrote, I didn't blame the anecdote. I blamed people for jumping to conclusions based on an anecdote.

What conclusion do you think I jumped to?

[Cletus]

If you read what I wrote, I didn't blame the anecdote. I blamed people for jumping to conclusions based on an anecdote.
Your statement...

[QUOTE]Anecdotes don't mean much.

I see no mention of people, at all.

What conclusion do you think I jumped to?

This one.


Its funny that it's "jumping to conclusions" if all conservatives are judged by the words of a few, but if a few liberals do something, it's an indicator of a broader trend.

[MMC]

They aren't confiscating these guns. People are going to do the right thing and voluntarily turn them in or destroy them.


Or not.....which would be the Right thing to do.

[MMC]

It was a question, although a leading one I will admit.

I asked because trump supporters are the most ignorant, sheep-like people I know.


Then start looking into the mirror more often.....before you bleat.

[MMC]

So what begins? Some interfaith organization calling for it means nothing.

Some people love to tilt at anecdotes.

More anti gun nuts of the left looking to ban guns, running around for signatures. More of the leftness going for gun bans. Were you confused?

And some people don't ever have a clue as to how some small little initiative can turn into a full blown movement. Especially when they can't figure out what some group is getting signatures for.


Let us know when you figure out why they are getting signatures?

[MMC]

Of course...and I understand what you mean when you note the way some folks will engage in exaggeration and stereotyping in ascribing a view to an entire demographic because one or a few individuals make the news expressing that view. The teacher - in another recent thread - who ranted against military personnel becomes, in some minds, proof that "the left hates the military". Here, as you say, an "interfaith group with a petition" is all we have. If it survives the referendum process and becomes law, it will be struck down by the courts before it is ever enforced. And you can be sure that at least some of the judges involved in that decision will be liberals.

Yet, then all those Liberal like teachers and schools do end up talking shit about Military recruiters visiting their schools. Which made headlines for a few years. While there may be some very small minority of the left that gives props to those in the Military.

The majority of leftists don't.


Maybe it will be struck down by SCOTUS when it gets there. Or did you need to study up on Chicago and their Gun Ban that was Unconstitutional. Which was implemented for how many years, before SCOTUS weighed in?

[MMC]

[QUOTE=Common Sense;2316521]If you read what I wrote, I didn't blame the anecdote. I blamed people for jumping to conclusions based on an anecdote.
Your statement...



I see no mention of people, at all.


This one.

Lets not forget he had trouble with the opening statement.....And so it begins. Coming from a Conservative, Pro 2nd Amendment individual.

Whats even funnier was the fact that from the Florida school shooting. That some Demos put forward a bill to ban Semi Auto Rifles. Then included Semi Auto Handguns. Shot guns. Then other types of Rifles.


But plays on jumping to conclusions. Despite knowing that if the Demos had the Majority in both House and Senate. That the bill would be passed under legislation.


Or at the very least he should have the intelligence to figure that out. Then if saying he does.....then the whole point of his argument was to come with the dishonesty. Which is something that LaPierre mentioned about Leftists of the Anti gun nut movement.

[DGUtley]

It was a question, although a leading one I will admit. I asked because trump supporters are the most ignorant, sheep-like people I know.

2008:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's say if you disagree with Obama, you're racist."
LWNJ's: "Republicans are racist...."

2012:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about birth control."
LWNJ's: "Republicans are trying to take birth control..."

2016:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about Trump's racist."
LWNJ's: "Trump's racist"

2017:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about Russian collusion."
LWNJ's: "Trump colluded with Russia..."

2018:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about how Republicans hate children if they don't want guns confiscated."
LWNJ's: "Republicans want to kill kids..."

Ok... If I cared enough to think about it, I could come up with a dozen more examples. The birth control example is the most enlightening -- George Snuphalagus asked Santorum that question in the debate, why do republicans want to take birth control from women -- and BOOM -- the very next day it started the mantra for the entire 2012 campaign. Relentlessly. Not a planted question? C'mon -- and the LWNJ's lined up and mimicked it all the way to victory -- despite the fact it was a lie.

[Cannons Front]

What the hell, while we are at it lets just abolish the entire Constitution, its old and outdated and written by rich white guys anyway.
and supports white privilege, don't forget that....

[Cannons Front]

Uh..... Forget it.....

I am betting that was sarcasm....

[MMC]

and supports white privilege, don't forget that....

No worries, they are tearing down all those statues.

[Cannons Front]

I agree that good people can be corrupted by power but when there are almost more guns in this country than there are citizens that should tell us a lot about our culture and the direction of this country's priorities. Everybody is so preoccupied with defending an object over fixing our culture, which in my opinion, is pretty disgusting. That's not just solely based on the gun culture but many aspects of this country's culture.

Lets go with change the culture, what culture do you want to change? Guns are not a culture, they are a tool, they have a purpose and they have a needed use. I own guns, not because I fear crime, or fear the Gov't.

Lets make some culture changes that would really help our nation.
Let's start with the VICTIM Culture,
A culture made up of individuals who are cynical of self-actualization. Specifically, the pervasive belief that one's efforts are always undermined by the actions of someone or something else, particularly someone or something more powerful. The perceived oppression might have occurred in the past, or it might be on-going.

Then there is the Street or Gansta Rap Culture;
The glorification of drugs, guns and misogyny by the street culture surrounding "gangsta rap" is a "deadly virus" threatening black Britons, according to one of the best-known black personalities on television.Garth Crooks, a BBC sports commentator, told the London Schools and Black Child conference at the weekend that gangsta culture was "killing some of our children" while films and rap music glorifying violence were directly linked to education truancy, crime and violence.
While this quote is from England there is little difference with the scene here in the US, don't forget the image and treatment of women in this culture as well.

Don't forget the culture of dependency;
Under a culture of dependency, poverty becomes a trap, and recipients get stuck. Long-term welfare recipients lose work habits and job skills and miss out on the marketplace contacts that lead to job opportunities.

Those are just a few, how do you think we should fix those? Those are the issues that are tearing this country apart.

[Standing Wolf]

Yet, then all those Liberal like teachers and schools do end up talking $#@! about Military recruiters visiting their schools. Which made headlines for a few years. While there may be some very small minority of the left that gives props to those in the Military.

The majority of leftists don't.


Maybe it will be struck down by SCOTUS when it gets there. Or did you need to study up on Chicago and their Gun Ban that was Unconstitutional. Which was implemented for how many years, before SCOTUS weighed in?

I, myself, have mixed feelings about military recruiters on campuses - especially high schools. That doesn't make me anti-military.

Yes, the courts do sometimes take a seemingly inordinate amount of time correcting the mistakes of legislatures, city councils and other such bodies. I recently asked a friend and colleague - a Republican, who spent a dozen years in the state house and senate - if he had ever had to educate his fellow legislators who were not attorneys about potential legal hurdles to the laws they were proposing, and he responded, "All the time". He mentioned one in particular, currently a candidate for the U.S. Senate, who he said he was always telling, "You can't do that...it's unconstitutional!" :rollseyes:

[MMC]

I, myself, have mixed feelings about military recruiters on campuses - especially high schools. That doesn't make me anti-military.

Yes, the courts do sometimes take a seemingly inordinate amount of time correcting the mistakes of legislatures, city councils and other such bodies. I recently asked a friend and colleague - a Republican, who spent a dozen years in the state house and senate - if he had ever had to educate his fellow legislators who were not attorneys about potential legal hurdles to the laws they were proposing, and he responded, "All the time". He mentioned one in particular, currently a candidate for the U.S. Senate, who he said he was always telling, "You can't do that...it's unconstitutional!" :rollseyes:

You are not.....and you served. There are some leftists like I said that served. Honor the Military.

But the majority of the left.....doesn't.


Over a decade with Chicago and what punishment did they get for denying lawful citizens of their Right? That they were told they were in the wrong. Change that up now. Not much of a consequence, I would say.

[Standing Wolf]

You are not.....and you served. There are some leftists like I said that served. Honor the Military.

But the majority of the left.....doesn't.


Over a decade with Chicago and what punishment did they get for denying lawful citizens of their Right? That they were told they were in the wrong. Change that up now. Not much of a consequence, I would say.

I'm not sure we really want to start down the road of punishing folks for making and enforcing laws that are subsequently struck down.

[MMC]

The deviousness of the leftness is unparalleled.


Backdoor Ban? Citigroup Tells Clients No Firearm Sales To People Under 21, No High Capacity Magazines ......


The war against the Second Amendment has many fronts. The media, the legislatures, and the ballot box—all are areas where anti-gun nonsense can be dredged up and disseminated. Now, on the financial institution front, Citigroup has told its clients that they will no longer do business with them if they sell firearms to Americans under the age of 21, those who haven’t passed a background check, and those who sell bump stocks and high capacity magazines. CEO Michael Corbat said this change was a long time coming, telling The New York Times that he’s an avid outdoorsman and gun owner. He called the move an exercise in common sense (via NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/business/citigroup-gun-control-policy.html)):


Citigroup is setting restrictions on the sale of firearms by its business customers, making it the first Wall Street bank to take a stance in the divisive nationwide gun control debate.
The new policy, announced Thursday, prohibits the sale of firearms to customers who have not passed a background check or who are younger than 21. It also bars the sale of bump stocks and high-capacity magazines. It would apply to clients who offer credit cards backed by Citigroup or borrow money, use banking services or raise capital through the company.
The rules, which the company described as “common-sense measures,” echo similar restrictions established by some major retailers, like Walmart. But they also represent the boldest such move to emerge from the banking sector.
[…]
Citigroup said it does not have the technology nor the legal ability to monitor gun purchases at the payment processing level, but said that the industry is discussing the possibility.
Edward Skyler, an executive vice president at Citigroup who helped craft the policy, wrote in a blog post that the company’s announcement “will invite passion on both sides.” But he stressed that the policies are “not centered on an ideological mission to rid the world of firearms.”
[…]
The company said it would not enforce a specific deadline and instead hopes to have all of its clients on board with the gun restrictions within a few months.


We can't strip Americans of their Second Amendment rights through legislation, but we’ll just cut off the credit lines that help keep this industry afloat. Liberals trying to sue the gun industry out of existence through lawsuits was another backdoor ban attempt until the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce In Arms Act that stated no lawsuit could be filed against a gun manufacturer whose product was unknowingly used in a crime. We can’t ban guns; we’ll just eviscerate the industry that makes them.


The financial industry is gearing up for war with law-abiding gun owners and supporters of the Second Amendment and their businesses......snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/22/citigoup-gun-restrictions-n2463733



That leaves.....We the People with one choice. Put Citibank out of Business. Change out all Mortgages, Car, Business, and Financial loans.


Then Citibank can get the hell out and look to survive overseas.

[MisterVeritis]

Hence the need for arms. Human history is characterized by periodic disasters, massacres, and atrocities, the burden of which tends to fall disproportionately on the most powerless members in society. Arms in the hands of common people serves to empower them more than any other thing I can think of.
People have a good reason to be preoccupied with the defense of an essential right. And we can take steps to improve certain aspects of our culture without imperiling that right.
It is in this area of individual liberties that you shine. I appreciate the effort it took to understand and the effort you take to be understood.

[Crepitus]

2008:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's say if you disagree with Obama, you're racist."
LWNJ's: "Republicans are racist...."

2012:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about birth control."
LWNJ's: "Republicans are trying to take birth control..."

2016:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about Trump's racist."
LWNJ's: "Trump's racist"

2017:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about Russian collusion."
LWNJ's: "Trump colluded with Russia..."

2018:
MSMedia, "hmmmm... I know, let's talk about how Republicans hate children if they don't want guns confiscated."
LWNJ's: "Republicans want to kill kids..."

Ok... If I cared enough to think about it, I could come up with a dozen more examples. The birth control example is the most enlightening -- George Snuphalagus asked Santorum that question in the debate, why do republicans want to take birth control from women -- and BOOM -- the very next day it started the mantra for the entire 2012 campaign. Relentlessly. Not a planted question? C'mon -- and the LWNJ's lined up and mimicked it all the way to victory -- despite the fact it was a lie.

Except that those are not really examples, they are what you read into what's being said, in other words your opinion. And since your opinion seems to be right in line with what the rwnj extremists want it to be I would have to say you've done a nice job of proving my point.

[Common Sense]

Who knew a petition could scare people so much...

[MMC]

I'm not sure we really want to start down the road of punishing folks for making and enforcing laws that are subsequently struck down.
Why....in Chicago's case. It was the Demos purposeful intent. At the least they should have been fined into squalor. Made an example of for all of History.

[MisterVeritis]

I'm not sure we really want to start down the road of punishing folks for making and enforcing laws that are subsequently struck down.
Why not? We need way fewer laws. Putting the perps in prison and stripping them (and their families) of their wealth would sure slow down the unlawful laws and regulations.

[DGUtley]

Except that those are not really examples, they are what you read into what's being said, in other words your opinion. And since your opinion seems to be right in line with what the rwnj extremists want it to be I would have to say you've done a nice job of proving my point.

Actually, no, that is what is being said. We know that in 2008 the Times Listserv circulated an email recommending that all journalists call anyone that opposed Obama racist, they did and the left latched onto it, calling anyone that opposed Obama racist for 8 years. In 2012, we know that Snuphalagus asked Santorum that question -- right out of the blue and then the very next day: BOOM war on birth control was the central theme in the election and the left jumped on it. The issues were Ignorance and Sheepleness. In point of fact, neither of those two issues were accurate -- you could oppose Obama and not be racist; and Republicans are not against birth control. That the left championed it is baa baa...

I rest my case.

[MMC]

Who knew a petition could scare people so much...

Who knew you couldn't figure out how bans could be put into place by unconstitutional laws.

[MisterVeritis]

The deviousness of the leftness is unparalleled.
Backdoor Ban? Citigroup Tells Clients No Firearm Sales To People Under 21, No High Capacity Magazines ......

This is beginning to look like a war to me.

[Common Sense]

Who knew you couldn't figure out how bans could be put into place by unconstitutional laws.

Don't freak out, but I think there's a person with a clipboard behind you.

[Common Sense]

This is beginning to look like a war to me.
What's your battle plan?

[nathanbforrest45]

Hyperbole for the win.

What you fail to understand or chose to ignore for whaever reason is that the Second Amendment is what stops what I proposed from happening. If you get rid of the one method we have of defending ourselves from a tyrannical government then there is nothing to stop the fall of all the others.

You have a lot more faith in those in power not to use that power to your detriment while at the same time calling President Trump a Nazi (and don't insult me by saying "well I never said that", your side of the fence makes that statement on a daily basis)

It is my right as an American citizen to keep and bear arms. I cannot keep or bear arms if the government outlaws everything other than air pistols.

Perhaps you should look at your liberal thought processes that doesn''t want to punish anyone for even the most egregious infractions of the law. Those of us who are NRA members and staunch supporters of the Second Amendment are the most law abiding people on the planet. I know you will find examples of NRA members acting badly but they are statistically insignificant.

You pretend to care about the high school kids getting shot (which also does not amount to as many kids killed on bicycles being ridden from and to school) but don't seem to want to look into the root causes of the carnage in black neighborhoods or the fact that in every case of students shooting other students there was much evidence this person was a threat.

No, dearie, abolish the 2nd and the rest topple like dominos

[nathanbforrest45]

As soon as you own up to being a tRumpkin.


Define tRumpkin please. I have never heard of this term.

[nathanbforrest45]

Voting in ethical and good people is the most effective defense of our rights and freedoms. If we need guns to ensure that then we are doing something wrong and our democracy...err republic...is a facade.
Someone wiser than both of us once said "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

[MisterVeritis]

What's your battle plan?
If one is to win a war one does not divulge one's plan.

[nathanbforrest45]

I'll take Kumbaya over Paranoid.

Kumbaya gets you killed. Paranoia gives you a fighting chance

[MMC]

This is beginning to look like a war to me.

The Demos and their Cult following started the War a long time ago, and doubled down with this so called Resistance.

What, Resist Trump and Republican policies put into effect. Resist laws, regulations, rules, protocols. Resist Conservative ideology not live with it? Obstruct anything and everything implemented by the Right? Try and hurt States led by the right financially.


Run around disrespecting and mocking all on the Right. Fuck them. Its time to put them out of their misery.



Let the leftness be the victims they were created as. From Coast to Coast.....let them see their bodies laying in the streets, countryside, and let those surviving.....become refugees for Europe.


Its clear.....if they can't be in power and control things. Then there isn't anything that Unites us.

[nathanbforrest45]

Incrementalism. Its real and it spreads.

As can be witnessed by going from not discriminating against gays to gay "marriage" to allowing men to use female bathrooms, men to become women, women to become men and putting people in jail for thinking otherwise.

[nathanbforrest45]

I agree that good people can be corrupted by power but when there are almost more guns in this country than there are citizens that should tell us a lot about our culture and the direction of this country's priorities. Everybody is so preoccupied with defending an object over fixing our culture, which in my opinion, is pretty disgusting. That's not just solely based on the gun culture but many aspects of this country's culture.
No, a small group is so fixated on eliminating our ability to defend ourselves they will not even attempt to "fix our culture"

Don't want a gun. Don't buy one.

It is as much my right to own as many firearms as I wish as it is yours to murder as many of your children before they are born as you wish. Actually, I think its more my right since it is specifically spelled out in the Constitution while abortion has been created out of whole cloth.

[MMC]

Don't freak out, but I think there's a person with a clipboard behind you.

I wouldn't worry if he is a leftist like you. You can't handle your superior. Not even with 10 more like you.

So in reality.....you would have to come much deeper.

[Common Sense]

I wouldn't worry if he is a leftist like you. You can't handle your superior. Not even with 10 more like you.

So in reality.....you would have to come much deeper.

Lol...

[nathanbforrest45]

I agree.

...but so far all we have is a interfaith group with a petition.

Suppose another interfaith group had a petition to outlaw gay marriage? Would you simply ignore it as "just an anecdote"?

[MMC]

Lol...

LMAO.....they say for every one US Soldier that was in NAM. There are 10 Dead Vietnamese. For every 1 Ranger, over a 100 dead Vietnamese.

And one thing is for certain....you leftists just don't have the heart, balls and courage of the Vietnamese.

Rangers Lead the Way. Sua Sponte. http://www.politicalforum.com/images/smilies/salute.gif

[nathanbforrest45]

Or not.....which would be the Right thing to do.

Its sort of like voluntarily paying your taxes. Of course the fact that you can go to jail for years and years if you don't has no bearing on your voluntarily paying your taxes.

[nathanbforrest45]

More anti gun nuts of the left looking to ban guns, running around for signatures. More of the leftness going for gun bans. Were you confused?

And some people don't ever have a clue as to how some small little initiative can turn into a full blown movement. Especially when they can't figure out what some group is getting signatures for.


Let us know when you figure out why they are getting signatures?


Look at what as exploded as the result of the Florida school shooting. 5 "students" (with the backing of some unknown benefactor) have organized a wave of anti gun sentiment across the country.

[Common Sense]

Look at what as exploded as the result of the Florida school shooting. 5 "students" (with the backing of some unknown benefactor) have organized a wave of anti gun sentiment across the country.
Why did you put students in quotes?

You don't think they are crisis actors, do you?

[nathanbforrest45]

I am betting that was sarcasm....

I hope you bet a lot

[MMC]

Look at what as exploded as the result of the Florida school shooting. 5 "students" (with the backing of some unknown benefactor) have organized a wave of anti gun sentiment across the country.


Indeed, and the leftness had no trouble exploiting children for their agenda.

[MMC]

Its sort of like voluntarily paying your taxes. Of course the fact that you can go to jail for years and years if you don't has no bearing on your voluntarily paying your taxes.

Not if you are a Celeb like Wesley Snipes. Then it was only getting locked up for a couple of years. Then back out making that paper and becoming a Citizen of another Country, Right?

[Tahuyaman]

I am betting that was sarcasm....

At first I didn't think so, but then I saw his follow-up post. I'm hoping it was.

[nathanbforrest45]

Why did you put students in quotes?

You don't think they are crisis actors, do you?
I don't know who they are. I don't know if they are "students" or not. Who are they, what is their background. We are about to destroy the Constitution because five supposed high school students say we should. We should know who they are. Who is funding their protest.

Crisis actors? No, I believe fully 17 kids were shot and killed by a known mentally unstable ex student. What I don't know is who are these five "kids"

[Tahuyaman]

Its sort of like voluntarily paying your taxes. Of course the fact that you can go to jail for years and years if you don't has no bearing on your voluntarily paying your taxes.


A while back they became "contributions" not taxes.

[The Xl]

The hard lefts ultimate goal is nation firearm confiscation.

[MMC]

I don't know who they are. I don't know if they are "students" or not. Who are they, what is their background. We are about to destroy the Constitution because five supposed high school students say we should. We should know who they are. Who is funding their protest.

Crisis actors? No, I believe fully 17 kids were shot and killed by a known mentally unstable ex student. What I don't know is who are these five "kids"

Well, we know the Lame Stream media helped them out.

[MMC]

The hard lefts ultimate goal is nation firearm confiscation.

Nah, their Ultimate goal is to be in power wherein their Elites will make laws that they are above.

[Cletus]

I'm not sure we really want to start down the road of punishing folks for making and enforcing laws that are subsequently struck down.

I actually have proposed that in the past. I think that any elected or appointed official who initiates a law or regulation that contravenes the constitution should be punished... publicly and severely.

[Common Sense]

I don't know who they are. I don't know if they are "students" or not. Who are they, what is their background. We are about to destroy the Constitution because five supposed high school students say we should. We should know who they are. Who is funding their protest.

Crisis actors? No, I believe fully 17 kids were shot and killed by a known mentally unstable ex student. What I don't know is who are these five "kids"
They are students from the school.

[The Xl]

Nah, their Ultimate goal is to be in power wherein their Elites will make laws that they are above.

The elites are already above the law, so I guess they already won

[MMC]

The elites are already above the law, so I guess they already won
Not yet they aren't. But some have got away from the long arm of the law. Of course they had their people playing that role. Were chasing them out slowly but surely.

[MMC]

More deviousness by the left. You-Tube now joins in with Citibank. Already gun companies are taking their videos to other sites.



YouTube is Going After Lawful Gun Owners and Dealers .....


YouTube, the video streaming and upload service owned by Google, is going after lawful gun owners and companies by taking down channels. The company argues videos of individuals shooting firearms violates terms of agreement and promotes violence.


This week, YouTube went after Florida based AR-15 manufacturer Spike's Tactical and terminated their channel (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/03/21/youtube-bans-florida-gun-manufacturer-for-posting-violent-content-n2463247)without warning.


https://media.townhall.com/townhall/reu/hv/images/2018/80/d6cc933a-a7ae-4de3-8344-d3c8c36f438c.png


But it turns out, Spike's Tactical isn't alone (http://fortune.com/2018/03/21/youtube-firearms-videos-crack-down/) and a number of firearms companies and channels owned by Second Amendment enthusiasts have been banned.


YouTube, a popular media site for firearms enthusiasts, this week quietly introduced tighter restrictions on videos involving weapons, becoming the latest battleground in the U.S. gun-control debate.

“We routinely make updates and adjustments to our enforcement guidelines across all of our policies,” a YouTube spokeswoman said in a statement. “While we’ve long prohibited the sale of firearms, we recently notified creators of updates we will be making around content promoting the sale or manufacture of firearms and their accessories.”



The National Shooting Sports Foundation is expressing concern over the new policies and argue they will extend well beyond what YouTube currently claims are new policies. They also argues the move infringes on free speech.


"YouTube’s announcement this week of a new firearms content policy is troubling. We suspect it will be interpreted to block much more content than the stated goal of firearms and certain accessory sales. Especially worrisome is the potential for blocking educational content that serves an instructional and skill-building purpose. YouTube’s policy announcement has also served to invite political activists to flood their review staff with complaints about any video to which they may proffer manufactured outrage," NSSF released in a statement.


"Much like Facebook, YouTube now acts as a virtual public square. The exercise of what amounts to censorship, then, can legitimately be viewed as the stifling of commercial free speech, which has constitutional protection. Such actions also impinge on the Second Amendment," the statement continues......snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/03/23/youtube-is-going-after-lawful-gun-owners-and-dealers-n2463419?utm_source=TopBreakingNewsCarousel&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingNewsCarousel

[Tahuyaman]

- Owners To Turn Them Over.....


After the tragic school shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on February 14, which left 17 people dead, the calls for new gun laws have reached a fever pitch again. Of course, Congress will pass no new laws on the subject. There’s no need, as it’s becoming increasingly clear that enforcement of the current laws that could have prevented shooter Nikolas Cruz from obtaining firearms was egregiously absent. Federal, state, and local authorities failed miserably to act upon the many red flags presented by this disturbed man. Yet, at the state-level, it’s a different ballgame.


In Oregon, a new initiative from a religious group is taking it a step forward. They want to ban any semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, and that can hold more than ten rounds. They also want current owners of these firearms, law-abiding Americans, to take them out of the state, register them, sell it to a FFL dealer, destroy it, or turn them over. That’s right, folks—full-blown gun confiscation. Right now, the anti-gun church group is collecting signatures. The hope is that they fall short (via KGW8 (http://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/oregon-initiative-would-ban-assault-weapons-require-owners-to-surrender-certain-guns/283-530640255)):


Filed by an interfaith religious group in Portland, Initiative Petition 42 would also require legal gun owners to surrender or register their assault weapons or face felony charges, according to language released Tuesday.
The group said it aims to get enough signatures to put the measure before voters in the November general election. They would need 88,000 signatures by July 6 to get the measure on the ballot.
The proposal defines an assault weapon as any semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any feature like folding or telescoping stock, or that can accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition.
The proposal would require any person in legal possession of an assault weapon to sell, surrender or remove the weapon from the state, or render it inoperable, within 120 days of passage, according to the language.


Oh, and of course, the police and military are exempt. Even Oregon Democrats aren’t going near this because they know the political consequences, said state Rep. Bill Post. It captures what everyone on the conservative, gun rights-supporting side has always known about the gun control movement: their agenda is confiscation and the abolition of the Second Amendment. It’s why we can’t trust them—and never should. There are no good people of faith on this subject. Do I wish we could have a debate on gun politics? Yes—but not with insane people. Also, to the people in the video who support the “assault rifle” ban, they’re already banned. No new sales of automatic rifles post-1986 are permitted. Those who obtain an ATF tax stamp for weapons under the 1934 National Firearms Act, which includes automatic firearms, must go through a background check, have their weapon registered with the ATF, and pay the fee. The process could take up to a year or more, but, again, these transfers are only for weapons pre-1986.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/22/confiscation-oregon-initiative-bans-so-called-assault-weapons-mandates-current-n2463470



And so it begins.....Of course hoping the measure fails doesn't stop these anti gun nuts from repeating their efforts. Time for some public humiliation is in order. Get their names.....and make sure they are given out to We the People. Let We the people deal with them. What say ye?

And when a voluntary turn-in does not work, confiscation is the next logical step.

[nathanbforrest45]

They are students from the school.

And you know this for a fact how? I don't know they are not but I don't know they are either.

[Tahuyaman]

And you know this for a fact how? I don't know they are not but I don't know they are either.

Whether they are or aren't isn't a big deal. They are being manipulated by the left to push an agenda.

[Common Sense]

Whether they are or aren't isn't a big deal. They are being manipulated by the left to push an agenda.
..or they actually feel very strongly about the issue and are trying to make a change.

But clearly everything is a conspiracy.

[MisterVeritis]

..or they actually feel very strongly about the issue and are trying to make a change.

But clearly everything is a conspiracy.
Where does the money come from to plan, organize and control this "movement"?

I love astroturfed political movements. The leftist astroturfed movements are the best.

[Tahuyaman]

..or they actually feel very strongly about the issue and are trying to make a change.

But clearly everything is a conspiracy.

If you think these kids are just a part of a spontaneous grass roots movement, you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. No one said anything about a conspiracy.

[Common Sense]

Where does the money come from to plan, organize and control this "movement"?

I love astroturfed political movements. The leftist astroturfed movements are the best.

Donations. Their group has received a lot of donations.

[Common Sense]

If you think these kids are just a part of a spontaneous grass roots movement, you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. No one said anything about a conspiracy.
Spontaneous? No. They are a reaction to a school shooting.

[MisterVeritis]

Donations. Their group has received a lot of donations.
Right. From Soros connected shadowy organizations. Hard leftists. Anti-American hard leftists.

Do you think the students would be feted and displayed as the puppets they clearly are if they were marching to arm teachers?

[nathanbforrest45]

Spontaneous? No. They are a reaction to a school shooting.

So, they are actually racist and don't care about the murders in Miami, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, St Louis and Washington DC of young black men by other young black men?

Why aren't they protesting against the policy that allows people like Cruz wander the streets with half the school knowing he was mentally unbalanced?

[Common Sense]

Right. From Soros connected shadowy organizations. Hard leftists. Anti-American hard leftists.

Do you think the students would be feted and displayed as the puppets they clearly are if they were marching to arm teachers?

There it is.

[nathanbforrest45]

Spontaneous? No. They are a reaction to a school shooting.
You never answered me. How do you know for a fact they are actually students?

[Tahuyaman]

Spontaneous? No. They are a reaction to a school shooting.

The school shootings have given those with an agenda an opportunity to manipulate these kids.

[MMC]

The school shootings have given those with an agenda an opportunity to manipulate these kids.

Exploiting kids isn't taboo for the leftness.

[Common Sense]

You never answered me. How do you know for a fact they are actually students?
Seriously?

[jimmyz]

I have zero problem with any sort of march or demonstration as long as it is peaceful. Demonstrating is as American as apple pie. I don't care whom funds as well. Soros, Kock Bros. whomever.

[Crepitus]

Actually, no, that is what is being said. We know that in 2008 the Times Listserv circulated an email recommending that all journalists call anyone that opposed Obama racist, they did and the left latched onto it, calling anyone that opposed Obama racist for 8 years. In 2012, we know that Snuphalagus asked Santorum that question -- right out of the blue and then the very next day: BOOM war on birth control was the central theme in the election and the left jumped on it. The issues were Ignorance and Sheepleness. In point of fact, neither of those two issues were accurate -- you could oppose Obama and not be racist; and Republicans are not against birth control. That the left championed it is baa baa...

I rest my case.

Search's do not support your assertion about the email.

A large portion of republicans (the religious right) are against birth control otherwise why go to the supreme Court to prevent Obamacare from covering it.

I think you need to provide some links instead of just giving me your opinion if you want to convince anyone.

[Crepitus]

LOL Yet they rule. It must make you feel marginalized. lol

They need assistance from a hostile foreign power.

[Crepitus]

Then start looking into the mirror more often.....before you bleat.

Why, you planning on sneaking up behind me?

[Crepitus]

Define tRumpkin please. I have never heard of this term.

One of Cheeto Jesus's Loyal orange minions.

[jimmyz]

They need assistance from a hostile foreign power.

Yep, my Russian handler made threats and handed me 5 rubles to assure my vote for Trump. There were at least 12 Russians posting on tPF too.

[Mister D]

Yep, my Russian handler made threats and handed me 5 rubles to assure my vote for Trump. There were at least 12 Russians posting on tPF too.
It was the Russian Facebook ads that got me. They stole my vote right out of Hillary's hands.

[Mister D]

They need assistance from a hostile foreign power.
Who will it be in 2020? China? lol

[MMC]

Why, you planning on sneaking up behind me?

That wouldn't stop seeing yourself first. Try again.

[Cannons Front]

I hope you bet a lot
Believe me I knew it was just kinda pointing it out to the ones that were struggling.

[Cannons Front]

Search's do not support your assertion about the email.
A large portion of republicans (the religious right) are against birth control otherwise why go to the supreme Court to prevent Obamacare from covering it.
I think you need to provide some links instead of just giving me your opinion if you want to convince anyone.

Pretty sure it is just the Catholics that are against the birth control part
How many people in a group do you need before their rights count?

[nathanbforrest45]

Seriously?


Yes of course I am serious. Do you even know the answer.

[nathanbforrest45]

One of Cheeto Jesus's Loyal orange minions.

Who is Cheeto Jesus. I don't know this person.

[Common Sense]

Yes of course I am serious. Do you even know the answer.
Yes, I know the answer. They are students. At least according to their fellow students, their teachers, parents and even the White House where some were invited to talk with the president.

Do you really doubt they are real students?

[zelmo1234]

They aren't confiscating these guns. People are going to do the right thing and voluntarily turn them in or destroy them.
If I lived there I would not. If they want it they will have to come and take it. I suspect that a lot of people feel the same way

[zelmo1234]

To me it doesn't go far enough since I'd rather the overturning of the 2nd amendment, but that's not happening anytime soon unfortunately. The simple truth is that millions of Americans would rather protect an object meant for killing over helping to create a nation where guns don't define our culture and our way of life anymore.

I am one I believe it is the only thing that has kept the citizens free and not under a tyrannical government

I am sure that many believe they would actually be safer

[zelmo1234]

Oh yeah, we've made plenty of mistakes. This isn't one of them.
So what do you think your acceptable losses of citizens and law enforcement would be to carry out the confiscation.

[zelmo1234]

It was a question, although a leading one I will admit.

I asked because trump supporters are the most ignorant, sheep-like people I know.

I can see that, they oppose the liberals fleecing the USA

[Crepitus]

Who will it be in 2020? China? lol

I believe I've offered this advice before, but it seems you didn't take it to heart:

Don't be stupider than you have to be.

[Crepitus]

Who is Cheeto Jesus. I don't know this person.

Yeah ya do. I'm guessing you okay to him every night.

[Crepitus]

I can see that, they oppose the liberals fleecing the USA

Huh? No, they don't (mostly because that's not a thing).
What they do is cheer on the Great tRumpkin no matter how stupid and ignorant his last tweet was.

[Kalkin]

Yeah ya do. I'm guessing you okay to him every night.

You're guessing he okays to him every night? Lol.

[MMC]

You're guessing he okays to him every night? Lol.

Crepitus is living proof as to why the Demos are doomed. :laugh:

[Dr. Who]

What you fail to understand or chose to ignore for whaever reason is that the Second Amendment is what stops what I proposed from happening. If you get rid of the one method we have of defending ourselves from a tyrannical government then there is nothing to stop the fall of all the others.

How realistic is it to think that the government could be taken down with small arms? The government, should it so choose, could first take itself to the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, which is impregnable, use an arsenal of dirty tricks to compromise rebellious citizens including deleting social security numbers, vacating bank accounts, drone warfare, chemical warfare, germ warfare, even deploying small nukes, block rebel areas from receiving any supplies, electricity or water. What a motivated government could do internally, far exceeds what an invading army can do. Chances are that support for rebellion would not be unanimous, it rarely is, so nonrebels would be moved to safe zones, leaving rebels to be obliterated. Other countries can't do this to suppress rebellion, but who is going to challenge the US?

[MisterVeritis]

How realistic is it to think that the government could be taken down with small arms? The government, should it so choose, could first take itself to the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, which is impregnable, use an arsenal of dirty tricks to compromise rebellious citizens including deleting social security numbers, vacating bank accounts, drone warfare, chemical warfare, germ warfare, even deploying small nukes, block rebel areas from receiving any supplies, electricity or water. What a motivated government could do internally, far exceeds what an invading army can do. Chances are that support for rebellion would not be unanimous, it rarely is, so nonrebels would be moved to safe zones, leaving rebels to be obliterated. Other countries can't do this to suppress rebellion, but who is going to challenge the US?
It is as if you do not believe people in the government can be killed.

Fascinating. If you are interested I will tell you some of the things I would recommend.

[Peter1469]

Poison their water supply.

[Dr. Who]

It is as if you do not believe people in the government can be killed.

Fascinating. If you are interested I will tell you some of the things I would recommend.

It's not that I don't think that people in government can be killed, but if they put themselves out of reach i.e. in an impregnable fortress, and shut down everything but whatever military are willing to serve, I don't see them being vulnerable to anything other than traitors within their own ranks. However, I am willing to entertain arguments.

[Dr. Who]

Poison their water supply.

Whose? The Cheyenne Mountain Complex must by definition make their own or take it from very deep aquifers since it's supposed to be resistant to all-out nuclear war.

[MisterVeritis]

It's not that I don't think that people in government can be killed, but if they put themselves out of reach i.e. in an impregnable fortress, and shut down everything but whatever military are willing to serve, I don't see them being vulnerable to anything other than traitors within their own ranks. However, I am willing to entertain arguments.
Is it possible for every judge, every politician, every member of every executive branch so-called Independent agency to live in a fortress?

If I were directing strikes I would seek out the highest ranking individuals and their families for assassinations. I would use three-person teams and small caliber handguns. I would have the trigger puller come up to the victim from behind and fire a single round into the base of the neck of the targeted individual. A.22 cal round would do nicely. I would drop the weapon and depart.

I would begin my killings in crowded, public, noisy areas. I would try to kill a judge, a politician, a spouse or a child every week.

After just a few murders everyone would be tied in knots. I would replicate this method in every major city across the nation.

[Common Sense]

Armchair generals are amusing.

[MisterVeritis]

Whose? The Cheyenne Mountain Complex must by definition make their own or take it from very deep aquifers since it's supposed to be resistant to all-out nuclear war.
When people are locked away in fortresses the can do very little to harm a rebellion. Imagine the chaos a hundred three-man teams could do.

When you are ready for the next technique let me know.

[MisterVeritis]

Armchair generals are amusing.
So are people with no expertise whatever.

[Common Sense]

Is it possible for every judge, every politician, every member of every executive branch so-called Independent agency to live in a fortress?

If I were directing strikes I would seek out the highest ranking individuals and their families for assassinations. I would use three-person teams and small caliber handguns. I would have the trigger puller come up to the victim from behind and fire a single round into the base of the neck of the targeted individual. A.22 cal round would do nicely. I would drop the weapon and depart.

I would begin my killings in crowded, public, noisy areas. I would try to kill a judge, a politician, a spouse or a child every week.

After just a few murders everyone would be tied in knots. I would replicate this method in every major city across the nation.
You have some deep seeded psychological issues. Your fascination and repeated discussions on murder and violence are disturbing.

[Common Sense]

So are people with no expertise whatever.

You're a regular Jason Borne. Lol...

[MisterVeritis]

You have some deep seeded psychological issues. Your fascination and repeated discussions on murder and violence are disturbing.
I spent years studying small wars while on active duty. There is nothing disturbing about knowing how previous small wars were fought. This particular technique was used in Algeria in 1954. It was successful in keeping the revolution alive.

And the right word is "seated".

[MisterVeritis]

You're a regular Jason Borne. Lol...
I am not a trigger puller. Others are far better at that. I know a great deal about insurgencies, guerilla war, and rebellions.

Think of it as a hobby. Please do remain ignorant.

[Common Sense]

I am not a trigger puller. Others are far better at that. I know a great deal about insurgencies, guerilla war, and rebellions.

Think of it as a hobby. Please do remain ignorant.
Oh, I know you're all talk and no action. That's why it's amusing and not a real threat.

Imagining murders sounds like a fun hobby.

[Dr. Who]

Is it possible for every judge, every politician, every member of every executive branch so-called Independent agency to live in a fortress?

If I were directing strikes I would seek out the highest ranking individuals and their families for assassinations. I would use three-person teams and small caliber handguns. I would have the trigger puller come up to the victim from behind and fire a single round into the base of the neck of the targeted individual. A.22 cal round would do nicely. I would drop the weapon and depart.

I would begin my killings in crowded, public, noisy areas. I would try to kill a judge, a politician, a spouse or a child every week.

After just a few murders everyone would be tied in knots. I would replicate this method in every major city across the nation.

That would be terrorism, but would it be all-out rebellion? How long would it be before non-rebs would have to be microchipped and pass scanners everywhere? Let's not forget that we have the technological ability to make passage impossible for anyone who doesn't emit a signal. I'm sure this sounds like SciFi, but it's actually possible today. A 21st century take on "show me your papers".

[MisterVeritis]

Oh, I know you're all talk and no action. That's why it's amusing and not a real threat.

Imagining murders sounds like a fun hobby.
Nothing I have said should be regarded as a threat. Each technique I offer has been used in one or more insurrections, rebellions or other small wars.

[MisterVeritis]

That would be terrorism, but would it be all-out rebellion? How long would it be before non-rebs would have to be microchipped and pass scanners everywhere? Let's not forget that we have the technological ability to make passage impossible for anyone who doesn't emit a signal. I'm sure this sounds like SciFi, but it's actually possible today. A 21st century take on "show me your papers".
How do you imagine rebellions begin? One of the reasons for targeting people and their families in public areas is precisely to evoke a government response. As the government makes it harder for everyone to live the rebellion gains converts.

[Dr. Who]

When people are locked away in fortresses the can do very little to harm a rebellion. Imagine the chaos a hundred three-man teams could do.

When you are ready for the next technique let me know.
Leaders are rarely present in the theater of war - they lead from afar. We have satellite capability.

[Dr. Who]

Nothing I have said should be regarded as a threat. Each technique I offer has been used in one or more insurrections, rebellions or other small wars.

Do you honestly think that the countries where these rebellions took place had the resources of the USA?

[MisterVeritis]

Leaders are rarely present in the theater of war - they lead from afar. We have satellite capability.
Not everyone can protect themselves. If the director cannot be assassinated perhaps the director's spouse or children can be. If not the Director then the Deputy director...and so on.

Later in the game, one might identify specific specialty mechanics. The opportunities for mischief that advances the rebellion are limited only by one's imagination.

[MisterVeritis]

Do you honestly think that the countries where these rebellions took place had the resources of the USA?
They all had governments composed of people with lives apart from their day to day government jobs. In Algiers, one target was an army lieutenant colonel. He was the highest ranking individual available. A three-person team tracked him for days. One day he made a brief stop to an open-air market. The three-person team followed their plan. In less than fifteen minutes they positioned themselves and the trigger puller fired a single .22 caliber round into the base of his neck. He slumped to the ground. For a few minutes, no one could figure out what happened.

He died. The team was never captured.

[Dr. Who]

How do you imagine rebellions begin? One of the reasons for targeting people and their families in public areas is precisely to evoke a government response. As the government makes it harder for everyone to live the rebellion gains converts.
You are assuming that the majority would fall in step. That rarely happens, even with the most tyrannical governments, particularly in very large countries. The last time it happened in a large country was in China in 1949 when the arms industry was still really in its infancy and China was basically an agricultural backwater nation. At the end of WWII, Hitler took his own life - he was not assassinated and by comparison to today, the 1940's were primitive times from a technological point of view.

Don't forget all of the ABC national security entities now spying on the American public and the fact that younger people don't even write anything on paper anymore, they have cell phones rather than land lines. People have abandoned their ability to keep secrets to the WWW. After the first couple of attacks, the spying would go into overdrive and all of those people who increasingly don't know how to use a pen or pencil, will be SOL.

[Peter1469]

13% of the population fought in the American revolution. (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43328976)

[Dr. Who]

Not everyone can protect themselves. If the director cannot be assassinated perhaps the director's spouse or children can be. If not the Director then the Deputy director...and so on.

Later in the game, one might identify specific specialty mechanics. The opportunities for mischief that advances the rebellion are limited only by one's imagination.
Killing the minions won't take down the government. They can all be replaced.

[MisterVeritis]

You are assuming that the majority would fall in step.
What does this mean?


That rarely happens, even with the most tyrannical governments, particularly in very large countries. The last time it happened in a large country was in China in 1949 when the arms industry was still really in its infancy and China was basically an agricultural backwater nation. At the end of WWII, Hitler took his own life - he was not assassinated and by comparison to today, the 1940's were primitive times from a technological point of view.
The majority of the people are sheep and will be herded, just an in previous times.

Don't forget all of the ABC national security entities now spying on the American public and the fact that younger people don't even write anything on paper anymore, they have cell phones rather than land lines. People have abandoned their ability to keep secrets to the WWW. After the first couple of attacks, the spying would go into overdrive and all of those people who increasingly don't know how to use a pen or pencil, will be SOL.
We adapt. The people who will plan and conduct the attacks will all be gray. They will be invisible electronically. They will blend in. They will disappear. And they will become more competent as time goes on.

You say we are awesome and yet third worlders are holding us at bay in Afghanistan.

[MisterVeritis]

13% of the population fought in the American revolution. (http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43328976)
Your link says Novichuck.

That 13% may have been a peak number or a total over the many, many years of the revolution. When a regiment was only around 600 men and there were roughly 20 understrength regiments (from memory) the fighting force was not large. Also, in the earliest stages of the rebellion, the total number of fighters was in the high hundreds, low thousands.

Near the end, as happens with most successful rebellions the rebels had real armies. That is not how rebellions begin.

[MisterVeritis]

Killing the minions won't take down the government. They can all be replaced.
Uh-huh. And yet killing judges, hight government officials, police officers and military people did exactly that time after time throughout history.

The government responds. The more draconian the response the greater the number of rebel sympathizers there are. From that pool, fighters emerge. And thinkers. And polemicists.

From the insignificant acorn, a mighty tree grows.

[Peter1469]

Your link says Novichuck.

That 13% may have been a peak number or a total over the many, many years of the revolution. When a regiment was only around 600 men and there were roughly 20 understrength regiments (from memory) the fighting force was not large. Also, in the earliest stages of the rebellion, the total number of fighters was in the high hundreds, low thousands.

Near the end, as happens with most successful rebellions the rebels had real armies. That is not how rebellions begin.

I don't doubt that you are correct.

[Dr. Who]

What does this mean?


The majority of the people are sheep and will be herded, just an in previous times.

We adapt. The people who will plan and conduct the attacks will all be gray. They will be invisible electronically. They will blend in. They will disappear. And they will become more competent as time goes on.

You say we are awesome and yet third worlders are holding us at bay in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan is a poor comparison - they are technologically backward. They don't use the internet as their primary form of communication and their government infrastructure is just as primitive. 21st-century tricks don't work well in a 19th-century world. You're really stuck with old-fashioned spying to get any intel and everyone has to watch their P's and Q's lest they be regarded as worse than the terrorists, who are not even necessarily Afghans. Afghanistan did not revolt, it was infiltrated by terrorists.

[MisterVeritis]

Afghanistan is a poor comparison - they are technologically backward. They don't use the internet as their primary form of communication and their government infrastructure is just as primitive. 21st-century tricks don't work well in a 19th-century world. You're really stuck with old-fashioned spying to get any intel and everyone has to watch their P's and Q's lest they be regarded as worse than the terrorists, who are not even necessarily Afghans. Afghanistan did not revolt, it was infiltrated by terrorists.
For the rebels, old-fashioned spying works just fine. How had do you believe it will be to find out who the top person in the local education department is? How difficult will it be to determine where that person lives or his/her relatives are?

Low tech works very well to fulfill the tasks that need to be done in the beginning. It is simply not that hard to find a good target to track and kill at the right moment.

[Dr. Who]

Uh-huh. And yet killing judges, hight government officials, police officers and military people did exactly that time after time throughout history.

The government responds. The more draconian the response the greater the number of rebel sympathizers there are. From that pool, fighters emerge. And thinkers. And polemicists.

From the insignificant acorn, a mighty tree grows.
Unlike in the past, the most common refrain today is that No One is indispensable. Trump proves that every time he tosses someone. I suspect that you are living in the history books and haven't come to terms with the 21st-century mentality. What you might find a reason to tear down the government, may not resonate with more than half the population and the draconian actions to quell the rebellion may not offend those who don't want the government to change. People are a lot more jaded today than in the past. They are just as likely to see rebellion as terrorism and endorse draconian responses.

[MisterVeritis]

Unlike in the past, the most common refrain today is that No One is indispensable. Trump proves that every time he tosses someone. I suspect that you are living in the history books and haven't come to terms with the 21st-century mentality. What you might find a reason to tear down the government, may not resonate with more than half the population and the draconian actions to quell the rebellion may not offend those who don't want the government to change. People are a lot more jaded today than in the past. They are just as likely to see rebellion as terrorism and endorse draconian responses.
No one wants a bullet in the base of their neck. Each killing will prompt a government response. Each response will increase the number of people likely to support or join the rebellions.

It does not take a lot of people. Nor does it matter what the people believe initially. The government always responds heavily. Always. People like draconian responses that do not affect them or their families. Each killing widens the demand for the government to "do something" which in turn increases the number of people who are affected.

Yes. I live in the history books. In this case many dozens of them. I have roughly 20 of them on this subject of small wars left.

[Dr. Who]

No one wants a bullet in the base of their neck. Each killing will prompt a government response. Each response will increase the number of people likely to support or join the rebellions.

It does not take a lot of people. Nor does it matter what the people believe initially. The government always responds heavily. Always. People like draconian responses that do not affect them or their families. Each killing widens the demand for the government to "do something" which in turn increases the number of people who are affected.

Yes. I live in the history books. In this case many dozens of them. I have roughly 20 of them on this subject of small wars left.
The request for the government to "do something" could also include an acceptance of mass murder if they are convinced that the "bad guys" are maniacal terrorists who want to destroy the lives of the majority - the homegrown political version of Al-Quaeda.

[MisterVeritis]

The request for the government to "do something" could also include an acceptance of mass murder if they are convinced that the "bad guys" are maniacal terrorists who want to destroy the lives of the majority - the homegrown political version of Al-Quaeda.
Exactly. Then the government alienates some portion of the populace. That part becomes part of the support structure for the rebellion. Each time the government acts (as they always do) in ways that are overbearing they inconvenience a greater number of the people. And support for the rebels grows.

[Dr. Who]

Exactly. Then the government alienates some portion of the populace. That part becomes part of the support structure for the rebellion. Each time the government acts (as they always do) in ways that are overbearing they inconvenience a greater number of the people. And support for the rebels grows.
I don't agree. The only thing that has led to the increased support of AQ and ISIL is foreign intervention that attacked the innocents along with the guilty. It became more a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That is not the scenario here.

[Peter1469]

I don't agree. The only thing that has led to the increased support of AQ and ISIL is foreign intervention that attacked the innocents along with the guilty. It became more a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That is not the scenario here.

AQ and ISIL killed far more of their own people than Westerners have.

[Dr. Who]

AQ and ISIL killed far more of their own people than Westerners have.
Yes and most people in those countries have no love or loyalty to them, but some who lost loved ones to western attacks have joined the terrorist cause. More often than not they are just hostages in a war that they neither understand or support.

[Standing Wolf]

Why not? We need way fewer laws. Putting the perps in prison and stripping them (and their families) of their wealth would sure slow down the unlawful laws and regulations.

"Perps"? What crime has a legislator committed by proposing or supporting a bill that becomes law? That's the way the system works; do you seriously want to sanction, even imprison people for working within the system, however wrong-headed the result was eventually proven to be?

Should that include legislators who create and pass bills restricting abortion or same-sex marriage, or who gerrymander Congressional districts to favor their Party?

I strongly suspect that you are, here, simply playing your online role of the snooty patrician who likes to shout, "Off with their heads!" at odd times. Not being serious, in other words.

[Peter1469]

Yes and most people in those countries have no love or loyalty to them, but some who lost loved ones to western attacks have joined the terrorist cause. More often than not they are just hostages in a war that they neither understand or support.

I think they understand it.

[Dr. Who]

I think they understand it.

Perhaps agree with would be a better description.

[Peter1469]

What would you suggest?

[Cletus]

How realistic is it to think that the government could be taken down with small arms?

Very.

[Cletus]

It's not that I don't think that people in government can be killed, but if they put themselves out of reach i.e. in an impregnable fortress

There is no such thing as an impregnable fortress.

[Dr. Who]

Why not? We need way fewer laws. Putting the perps in prison and stripping them (and their families) of their wealth would sure slow down the unlawful laws and regulations.
You cannot legally penalize anyone who is not criminally convicted, so if the family is living off of investments that are not exclusively in the "perps" name, you can't take them unless the perpetrator stole millions of dollars and then it's still not a cake-walk to disenfranchise the wife and kids.

[Cletus]

After reading the last few pages and the"discussion" of asymmetrical warfare, all I can really say is should that day ever come when the US government abandons the Constitution and becomes outlaw, I hope Who is placed in command of the government's counterinsurgency operation. :grin:

[MisterVeritis]

I don't agree. The only thing that has led to the increased support of AQ and ISIL is foreign intervention that attacked the innocents along with the guilty. It became more a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That is not the scenario here.
Has the rebellion and its government countermeasures started?

[MisterVeritis]

"Perps"? What crime has a legislator committed by proposing or supporting a bill that becomes law? That's the way the system works; do you seriously want to sanction, even imprison people for working within the system, however wrong-headed the result was eventually proven to be?

Should that include legislators who create and pass bills restricting abortion or same-sex marriage, or who gerrymander Congressional districts to favor their Party?

I strongly suspect that you are, here, simply playing your online role of the snooty patrician who likes to shout, "Off with their heads!" at odd times. Not being serious, in other words.
Yes. Legislators who write unconstitutional laws should be punished.

[MMC]

It's not that I don't think that people in government can be killed, but if they put themselves out of reach i.e. in an impregnable fortress, and shut down everything but whatever military are willing to serve, I don't see them being vulnerable to anything other than traitors within their own ranks. However, I am willing to entertain arguments.

They have to send out patrols.....and that's when you take from them. Tech and captives. They also best have hydroponic gardens that can sustain them for years. Moreover they will need to communicate so tech wise that works both ways. Their communications can be shut down, infiltrated.

They cannot hold out indefinitely. No one can.

[MMC]

How realistic is it to think that the government could be taken down with small arms? The government, should it so choose, could first take itself to the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, which is impregnable, use an arsenal of dirty tricks to compromise rebellious citizens including deleting social security numbers, vacating bank accounts, drone warfare, chemical warfare, germ warfare, even deploying small nukes, block rebel areas from receiving any supplies, electricity or water. What a motivated government could do internally, far exceeds what an invading army can do. Chances are that support for rebellion would not be unanimous, it rarely is, so nonrebels would be moved to safe zones, leaving rebels to be obliterated. Other countries can't do this to suppress rebellion, but who is going to challenge the US?

That is all for invading Army. Not the People rising up and removing a government that has gone tyrannical.

[MMC]

Armchair generals are amusing.

Even more amusing are those that have never been in combat. Such as yourself. Mocking those who have been in the Military and in combat situations. Wherein you wouldn't last 24 hrs in a Combat situation unless you dug a hole to hide in while bailing on those with you.

Even worse is being one that gets people killed around them. Eventually that problem gets solved with sheer fuck ups. I think you know what category that puts you in.

[MMC]

You're a regular Jason Borne. Lol...

LMAO you're not.....nor could you ever be. Nor anything close to it. Best you stick to hoping for Kumbaya.

[MMC]

That would be terrorism, but would it be all-out rebellion? How long would it be before non-rebs would have to be microchipped and pass scanners everywhere? Let's not forget that we have the technological ability to make passage impossible for anyone who doesn't emit a signal. I'm sure this sounds like SciFi, but it's actually possible today. A 21st century take on "show me your papers".

You mean like down around the border wherein we know where all those tunnels are, and how many people and vehicles are moving thru them? :rollseyes:


Hows that sat tech work for those underground?

[Peter1469]

Even more amusing are those that have never been in combat. Such as yourself. Mocking those who have been in the Military and in combat situations. Wherein you wouldn't last 24 hrs in a Combat situation unless you dug a hole to hide in while bailing on those with you.

Even worse is being one that gets people killed around them. Eventually that problem gets solved with sheer fuck ups. I think you know what category that puts you in.
Few of us Americans have been in combat.

[MMC]

Do you honestly think that the countries where these rebellions took place had the resources of the USA?

Do you honestly think those rebellions had the resources of what the People in the US have?

[MMC]

Few of us Americans have been in combat.

True.....so when you come across one that sits back and mocks those who have. You mock them back and show them why they are smaller than the average Joe.

Even a leftist doesn't want to be on constant display as a dipshit.

[Peter1469]

Yes and most people in those countries have no love or loyalty to them, but some who lost loved ones to western attacks have joined the terrorist cause. More often than not they are just hostages in a war that they neither understand or support.
I disagree. Sunnis do like ISIL over Shiites.

[MMC]

I disagree. Sunnis do like ISIL over Shiites.

I was going to ask you Pete.....when you were in Iraq did you study those that lived there. lol

How about Tactics and Strategy? On your off time. Even though there really isn't any time off.

[Peter1469]

I was going to ask you Pete.....when you were in Iraq did you study those that lived there. lol

How about Tactics and Strategy? On your off time. Even though there really isn't any time off.

On may last tour I had lots of jobs. Desert Storm was intense.

[MMC]

On may last tour I had lots of jobs. Desert Storm was intense.


I bet it was. Although, for myself.....I don't think the Arabs are as good as Asians when it comes to Warring.

Also, WHO forgets there are those in the Military that would rise up against a government gone Tyrannical. People of rank and control of tech.

Whole divisions and or brigades. From Air power to Naval.

[donttread]

They aren't confiscating these guns. People are going to do the right thing and voluntarily turn them in or destroy them.


Maybe the police forces thatr patrol our neighbothoods should surrender their weapons as well?

[Standing Wolf]

Yes. Legislators who write unconstitutional laws should be punished.

Fine - great. And then you can send all the people who voted for them to prison for conspiracy.

[Dr. Who]

They have to send out patrols.....and that's when you take from them. Tech and captives. They also best have hydroponic gardens that can sustain them for years. Moreover they will need to communicate so tech wise that works both ways. Their communications can be shut down, infiltrated.

They cannot hold out indefinitely. No one can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_Complex

[MMC]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_Complex

I know all about it.....read further along. They still cannot hold out indefinitely.

[MisterVeritis]

Fine - great. And then you can send all the people who voted for them to prison for conspiracy.
You always take things one step too far. If you write an illegal law it ought to be a real crime with real punishment.

[Dr. Who]

I disagree. Sunnis do like ISIL over Shiites.
Some perhaps, but most would rather not be involved in constant warfare. Sunnis are not all extremists.

[Dr. Who]

I bet it was. Although, for myself.....I don't think the Arabs are as good as Asians when it comes to Warring.

Also, WHO forgets there are those in the Military that would rise up against a government gone Tyrannical. People of rank and control of tech.

Whole divisions and or brigades. From Air power to Naval.

A military coup would be more likely than a civil war.

[MMC]

A military coup would be more likely than a civil war.
I agree with that and if the government went tyrannical. Civil War would be a different matter.

[Grokmaster]

There goes my squirrel hunting rifle, if the leftidiots have anything to say about it....


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