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Ethereal
03-26-2018, 03:17 PM
...and it's a total nonstarter.


(The Guardian) Parkland students guest edit Guardian US: Our manifesto to fix America's gun laws (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/parkland-students-manifesto-americas-gun-laws)

Ban semi-automatic weapons that fire high-velocity rounds

Ban accessories that simulate automatic weapons

Establish a database of gun sales and universal background checks

Change privacy laws to allow mental healthcare providers to communicate with law enforcement

Close gun show and secondhand sales loopholes

Allow the CDC to make recommendations for gun reform

Raise the firearm purchase age to 21

Chris
03-26-2018, 03:21 PM
It's anti-gun.

First support: Sessions Distorts the Law to Give Trump the Bump Stock Ban He Demanded (http://reason.com/blog/2018/03/26/sessions-distorts-the-law-to-give-trump).

ripmeister
03-26-2018, 03:23 PM
Perhaps, but to achieve a modicum of goals one generally asks for more than they realistically expect to get. Regardless of what one thinks of these kids and their movement I'm heartened by their engagement. Teenagers and young adults are so often dissed for their apathy when it comes to politics that I find this to be a good sign for the future.

MMC
03-26-2018, 03:29 PM
Brother of Parkland Victim: My Anti-Gun Peers Need to Stop Abusing My Sister's Memory to Push an Agenda She Didn't Support.....


This past weekend's 'March for Our Lives' represented a massive demonstration in favor of gun reforms and restrictions, some of which (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/20/poll-by-double-digits-americans-prefer-focus-on-school-safety-over-gun-control-n2462462) are supported by substantial majorities of a broadly pro-gun (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/23/nbcwsj-poll-large-majority-believe-gun-ownership-increases-safety-n2464037) public. Among the featured speakers at major rallies across the country were Parkland survivors and other young people whose lives have been touched by gun violence -- which, despite the understandable urgency of the current movement, has fallen drastically (https://twitter.com/CatoInstitute/status/976341640368472064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftownhall.com%2Ftipsheet%2Fgu ybenson%2F2018%2F03%2F23%2Fnbcwsj-poll-large-majority-believe-gun-ownership-increases-safety-n2464037) in recent decades, even as gun sales have soared (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130215/more-guns-less-crime-2013). Engagement and activism on important issues should be applauded, but ugly demagoguery should be discouraged, not rewarded. As long as voices like this continue to slander people (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/parkland-teens-david-hogg-and-emma-gonzalez-are-squandering-their-moment) with good-faith disagreements, often totally unchallenged, resentments will deepen and fester:


Rubio has actively thrown himself into (https://www.redstate.com/sarah-rumpf/2018/03/24/marchforourlives-protesters-despicable-scapegoating-marco-rubio/) this debate since the Valentine's Day massacre in Florida, seeking common ground to enhance school safety, to fix problems with existing laws on background checks, to address the mental health component of the mass shooting problem, and to entertain or even propose some changes on gun policy. His work has been greeted with silence (https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03/15/cnn-anchor-florida-dem-isnt-marco-rubio-whos-focused-gun-violence-weeks-focused-gun-violence/) from much of the press and appalling smears from the likes of Hogg, whose fixation on attacking Republican politicians (https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/david-hogg-rick-scott-blame-officer-response/) appears to be an overwhelming priority. It's almost as if making progress isn't what some people are after. Rubio, for his part, continues to take the high road, supporting anti-gun students' right to protest while politely disagreeing (https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/977576396024373251) with some of their aims:


Some have objected that the March for Our Lives wasn't about a "gun ban," but Second Amendment supporters' suspicions about ulterior motives have been confirmed by moments like this (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/02/22/revealing-cnn-townhall-meeting-audience-cheers-banning-all-rifles-media-swoons-n2452806), and explicit admissions (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/25/surprise-surprise-march-for-our-lives-once-again-shows-why-the-left-cant-be-trusted-on-gun-control-n2464461) like this:


Stephen Gutowski
✔ @StephenGutowski
"When they give us that inch, the bump stock ban, we will take a mile" - the current speaker at the #MarchForOurLives (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MarchForOurLives?src=hash)
11:35 AM - Mar 24, 2018 (https://twitter.com/StephenGutowski/status/977584663194685440)


If the goal is to come together and find ways to save lives by generating compromises in favor of smart, rights-protecting solutions, casting the other side as bought-off murder-enablers while confirming the existence of -- and indeed openly greasing -- the 'slippery slope' your opponents fear, is deeply counter-productive. Again, one might reasonably draw the conclusion that fostering viable solutions isn't the objective for some of these individuals. It is also undeniable that the media overwhelmingly supports the anti-gun protest movement, playing a significant role in marginalizing (https://www.mediaite.com/online/the-medias-marginalization-of-kyle-kashuv-shows-they-only-take-anti-gun-parkland-students-seriously/) dissenting voices, including among people who should enjoy at least as much 'absolute moral authority' on these issues as any of the celebrified liberal students. If someone weren't paying attention to conservative media outlets, he or she would likely have no idea that nearly all families of the Parkland students who were killed last month endorsed a bill (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/03/21/heres-an-interesting-fact-about-the-stop-school-violence-act-n2462969) passed by the Republican Congress. And those who attended Saturday's rallies or tuned into wall-to-wall media coverage didn't hear many perspectives like these (content warning):


Kashuv hid in a closet (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/05/exclusive-conservative-parkland-survivor-n2457366) during the rampage, after hearing gunshots ring out. Is his 'survivor' status less meaningful than his more prominent schoolmates' experiences, some of whom were significantly farther away from the location of the shooting? Do the opinions of Andrew Pollack, whose daughter was murdered that day, count? Or are we only supposed to listen the chorus that's singing from from the same ideological playbook? Also, must angry blaming and chanting be reserved for the NRA, as opposed to the individuals whose dereliction (http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/15/watch-armed-deputy-stands-outside-as-parkland-massacre-unfolds/) or incompetence (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/02/16/government-screwups-have-enabled-three-recent-mass-shootings-n2450382) directly failed to prevent the Florida school shooting? Another Parkland student, who lost his sister in the killing, has also struggled to make his views heard -- and, like Kashuv, has not been offered (https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/status/977302134893969408) the same platforms as his anti-gun peers, many of whose trauma and losses were far less direct and personal than his own. Watching those activists invoke his late sibling's memory to push an agenda that he does not, and she did not, support has been infuriating (https://twitchy.com/bethb-313034/2018/03/24/parkland-survivor-to-gun-control-classmates-dont-use-my-sisters-name-to-push-your-agenda/):


This man does not believe it's right to demonize the NRA or NRA-supported political figures in connection with the violent death of his daughter. He seems disgusted by the dark irony of the abortion lobby polluting this hallowed ground with placards purporting to care about children's lives. And he appears barely able to contain his anger over being told who "speaks for" his slain child. Can you blame him? I'll leave you with this (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/23/kids-gun-control-stance-after-parkland/444834002/):.....snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/26/brother-of-parkland-victim-gun-control-advocates-need-to-stop-abusing-my-sisters-memory-to-push-an-agenda-she-didnt-support-n2464523



Uh oh.....some of the other students aren't liking the Anti Gun Nut students talking shit. Is there a possible Hogg asswhipping coming. Lets hope so. Stay tuned.

stjames1_53
03-26-2018, 03:45 PM
Perhaps, but to achieve a modicum of goals one generally asks for more than they realistically expect to get. Regardless of what one thinks of these kids and their movement I'm heartened by their engagement. Teenagers and young adults are so often dissed for their apathy when it comes to politics that I find this to be a good sign for the future.

it is one thing to have sensible debates not postulated on emotional rhetoric, it is another to react with pure emotionalism. So let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution, claim as that young girl stated everything to be directly related to bigotry and racism, and just immediately confiscate all guns, regardless.
I've not broken any laws with the couple I own, WFT should I surrender any Right to a bunch of snot-nosed brats who think that emotionalism is better than thought.
I got a question for you, how are you going to get all of these guns?
and another thing, there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.

ripmeister
03-26-2018, 03:47 PM
Brother of Parkland Victim: My Anti-Gun Peers Need to Stop Abusing My Sister's Memory to Push an Agenda She Didn't Support.....


This past weekend's 'March for Our Lives' represented a massive demonstration in favor of gun reforms and restrictions, some of which (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/20/poll-by-double-digits-americans-prefer-focus-on-school-safety-over-gun-control-n2462462) are supported by substantial majorities of a broadly pro-gun (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/23/nbcwsj-poll-large-majority-believe-gun-ownership-increases-safety-n2464037) public. Among the featured speakers at major rallies across the country were Parkland survivors and other young people whose lives have been touched by gun violence -- which, despite the understandable urgency of the current movement, has fallen drastically (https://twitter.com/CatoInstitute/status/976341640368472064?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftownhall.com%2Ftipsheet%2Fgu ybenson%2F2018%2F03%2F23%2Fnbcwsj-poll-large-majority-believe-gun-ownership-increases-safety-n2464037) in recent decades, even as gun sales have soared (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130215/more-guns-less-crime-2013). Engagement and activism on important issues should be applauded, but ugly demagoguery should be discouraged, not rewarded. As long as voices like this continue to slander people (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/parkland-teens-david-hogg-and-emma-gonzalez-are-squandering-their-moment) with good-faith disagreements, often totally unchallenged, resentments will deepen and fester:


Rubio has actively thrown himself into (https://www.redstate.com/sarah-rumpf/2018/03/24/marchforourlives-protesters-despicable-scapegoating-marco-rubio/) this debate since the Valentine's Day massacre in Florida, seeking common ground to enhance school safety, to fix problems with existing laws on background checks, to address the mental health component of the mass shooting problem, and to entertain or even propose some changes on gun policy. His work has been greeted with silence (https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03/15/cnn-anchor-florida-dem-isnt-marco-rubio-whos-focused-gun-violence-weeks-focused-gun-violence/) from much of the press and appalling smears from the likes of Hogg, whose fixation on attacking Republican politicians (https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/david-hogg-rick-scott-blame-officer-response/) appears to be an overwhelming priority. It's almost as if making progress isn't what some people are after. Rubio, for his part, continues to take the high road, supporting anti-gun students' right to protest while politely disagreeing (https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/977576396024373251) with some of their aims:


Some have objected that the March for Our Lives wasn't about a "gun ban," but Second Amendment supporters' suspicions about ulterior motives have been confirmed by moments like this (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/02/22/revealing-cnn-townhall-meeting-audience-cheers-banning-all-rifles-media-swoons-n2452806), and explicit admissions (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/25/surprise-surprise-march-for-our-lives-once-again-shows-why-the-left-cant-be-trusted-on-gun-control-n2464461) like this:


Stephen Gutowski
✔ @StephenGutowski
"When they give us that inch, the bump stock ban, we will take a mile" - the current speaker at the #MarchForOurLives (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MarchForOurLives?src=hash)
11:35 AM - Mar 24, 2018 (https://twitter.com/StephenGutowski/status/977584663194685440)


If the goal is to come together and find ways to save lives by generating compromises in favor of smart, rights-protecting solutions, casting the other side as bought-off murder-enablers while confirming the existence of -- and indeed openly greasing -- the 'slippery slope' your opponents fear, is deeply counter-productive. Again, one might reasonably draw the conclusion that fostering viable solutions isn't the objective for some of these individuals. It is also undeniable that the media overwhelmingly supports the anti-gun protest movement, playing a significant role in marginalizing (https://www.mediaite.com/online/the-medias-marginalization-of-kyle-kashuv-shows-they-only-take-anti-gun-parkland-students-seriously/) dissenting voices, including among people who should enjoy at least as much 'absolute moral authority' on these issues as any of the celebrified liberal students. If someone weren't paying attention to conservative media outlets, he or she would likely have no idea that nearly all families of the Parkland students who were killed last month endorsed a bill (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/03/21/heres-an-interesting-fact-about-the-stop-school-violence-act-n2462969) passed by the Republican Congress. And those who attended Saturday's rallies or tuned into wall-to-wall media coverage didn't hear many perspectives like these (content warning):


Kashuv hid in a closet (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/05/exclusive-conservative-parkland-survivor-n2457366) during the rampage, after hearing gunshots ring out. Is his 'survivor' status less meaningful than his more prominent schoolmates' experiences, some of whom were significantly farther away from the location of the shooting? Do the opinions of Andrew Pollack, whose daughter was murdered that day, count? Or are we only supposed to listen the chorus that's singing from from the same ideological playbook? Also, must angry blaming and chanting be reserved for the NRA, as opposed to the individuals whose dereliction (http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/15/watch-armed-deputy-stands-outside-as-parkland-massacre-unfolds/) or incompetence (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/02/16/government-screwups-have-enabled-three-recent-mass-shootings-n2450382) directly failed to prevent the Florida school shooting? Another Parkland student, who lost his sister in the killing, has also struggled to make his views heard -- and, like Kashuv, has not been offered (https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/status/977302134893969408) the same platforms as his anti-gun peers, many of whose trauma and losses were far less direct and personal than his own. Watching those activists invoke his late sibling's memory to push an agenda that he does not, and she did not, support has been infuriating (https://twitchy.com/bethb-313034/2018/03/24/parkland-survivor-to-gun-control-classmates-dont-use-my-sisters-name-to-push-your-agenda/):


This man does not believe it's right to demonize the NRA or NRA-supported political figures in connection with the violent death of his daughter. He seems disgusted by the dark irony of the abortion lobby polluting this hallowed ground with placards purporting to care about children's lives. And he appears barely able to contain his anger over being told who "speaks for" his slain child. Can you blame him? I'll leave you with this (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/23/kids-gun-control-stance-after-parkland/444834002/):.....snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/26/brother-of-parkland-victim-gun-control-advocates-need-to-stop-abusing-my-sisters-memory-to-push-an-agenda-she-didnt-support-n2464523



Uh oh.....some of the other students aren't liking the Anti Gun Nut students talking $#@!. Is there a possible Hogg asswhipping coming. Lets hope so. Stay tuned.

So your solution to dealing with one with which you disagree is an "asswhooping". That's constructive.

stjames1_53
03-26-2018, 03:54 PM
So your solution to dealing with one with which you disagree is an "asswhooping". That's constructive.
the final answer is to confiscate all weapons in the US in the hands of law abiding civilians.
How are you goint to get enough of them to make a difference?
Did you know when Australia turned to confiscation, they automatically turned 1/3 of their population into felons when they had not done anything.
Great idea, Shakespeare. How are you going to get these guns from the gangsters?

You realize of course that's what is desired at the end of this "gun *ahem* control" thing.

MMC
03-26-2018, 04:05 PM
So your solution to dealing with one with which you disagree is an "asswhooping". That's constructive.

Well truthfully I would mock him and humiliate him before the cameras. Get him to jump, so I could do what is necessary to someone lying and distorting reality.

But I see it okay by you that he gets away doing what is wrong. Bringing all that disrespect on top of it.

Tahuyaman
03-26-2018, 05:41 PM
These kids didn't come up with this stuff. Adults with an agenda did.

Common Sense
03-26-2018, 05:53 PM
the final answer is to confiscate all weapons in the Us in the hands of law abiding civilians.
How are you goint to get enough of them to make a difference?
Did you know when Australia turned to confiscation, they automatically turned 1/3 of their population into felons when they had not done anything.
Great idea, Shakespeare. How are you going to get these guns from the gangsters?

You realize of course that's what is desired at the end of this "gun *ahem* control" thing.
No it's not.

Agent Zero
03-26-2018, 06:00 PM
it is one thing to have sensible debates not postulated on emotional rhetoric, it is another to react with pure emotionalism. So let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution, claim as that young girl stated everything to be directly related to bigotry and racism, and just immediately confiscate all guns, regardless.
I've not broken any laws with the couple I own, WFT should I surrender any Right to a bunch of snot-nosed brats who think that emotionalism is better than thought.
I got a question for you, how are you going to get all of these guns?
and another thing, there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.

lol...those kids are smarter and better adjusted than a lot of this forum. I took my son to the march Saturday and was impressed.

And, guess what?

Millennials now outnumber boomers. In November, wave bye to a lot of old white Republicans (and a few especially crazy younger ones) and watch as their numbers dwindle over the next two years.

These kids are thinking ahead, unlike morons who yearn for the wild wild west.

stjames1_53
03-26-2018, 06:01 PM
No it's not.

sure it is. Anything less than a Right is a privilege............and we know how THAT works

Agent Zero
03-26-2018, 06:05 PM
it is one thing to have sensible debates not postulated on emotional rhetoric, it is another to react with pure emotionalism. So let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution, claim as that young girl stated everything to be directly related to bigotry and racism, and just immediately confiscate all guns, regardless.
I've not broken any laws with the couple I own, WFT should I surrender any Right to a bunch of snot-nosed brats who think that emotionalism is better than thought.
I got a question for you, how are you going to get all of these guns?
and another thing, there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.


Tell that to the scum wandering the halls behind the booths at gunshows.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zZnvo_x5tA

Chris
03-26-2018, 06:14 PM
lol...those kids are smarter and better adjusted than a lot of this forum. I took my son to the march Saturday and was impressed.

And, guess what?

Millennials now outnumber boomers. In November, wave bye to a lot of old white Republicans (and a few especially crazy younger ones) and watch as their numbers dwindle over the next two years.

These kids are thinking ahead, unlike morons who yearn for the wild wild west.


If they're so smart, how do they connect offered solutions to the problem?

Crepitus
03-26-2018, 06:25 PM
If they're so smart, how do they connect offered solutions to the problem?

The same way people not being allowed to own hand grenades has kept hand grenade deaths down.

Mister D
03-26-2018, 06:30 PM
The same way people not being allowed to own hand grenades has kept hand grenade deaths down.
Handguns are used in the overwhelming majority of gun related homicides. Do they want to ban handguns?

stjames1_53
03-26-2018, 06:31 PM
The same way people not being allowed to own hand grenades has kept hand grenade deaths down.

however, the "hand grenades" are already out there...how ya gonna get 'em all in?

Chris
03-26-2018, 06:42 PM
The same way people not being allowed to own hand grenades has kept hand grenade deaths down.

Deaths by hand grenade are generally suicides.

I'll wait for a smart answer, not a smartass one.

Crepitus
03-26-2018, 07:34 PM
however, the "hand grenades" are already out there...how ya gonna get 'em all in?

Attrition.

Crepitus
03-26-2018, 07:35 PM
Deaths by hand grenade are generally suicides.

I'll wait for a smart answer, not a smartass one.

You asked a question, I gave you a direct and sensible answer.

If you don't like it tough.

Ethereal
03-26-2018, 07:39 PM
The same way people not being allowed to own hand grenades has kept hand grenade deaths down.
Or the way drug prohibition has kept people from making, selling, and using illegal drugs.

Standing Wolf
03-26-2018, 07:41 PM
If all of their demands were met 100% - they won't be, but if they were - and the occasional mass shooting continued to happen - which of course it would - what do you imagine their response would be?

"I guess we were wrong" or "We just haven't gone far enough"?

Crepitus
03-26-2018, 07:42 PM
Or the way drug prohibition has kept people from making, selling, and using illegal drugs.

No solution is perfect.

Crepitus
03-26-2018, 07:42 PM
If all of their demands were met 100% - they won't be, but if they were - and the occasional mass shooting continued to happen - which of course it would - what do you imagine their response would be?

"I guess we were wrong" or "We just haven't gone far enough"?


No solution is perfect.

Chris
03-26-2018, 07:47 PM
If all of their demands were met 100% - they won't be, but if they were - and the occasional mass shooting continued to happen - which of course it would - what do you imagine their response would be?

"I guess we were wrong" or "We just haven't gone far enough"?


Even more demands the government do something, anything.

Chris
03-26-2018, 07:48 PM
No solution is perfect.


Their solutions are worn out liberal cliches that don't address the problem.

Ethereal
03-26-2018, 07:48 PM
No solution is perfect.
If prohibitions on grenades have kept grenade-deaths down, then why haven't prohibitions on drugs kept drug-use down?

Standing Wolf
03-26-2018, 07:49 PM
No solution is perfect.

Several years ago, during the restrictive gun ban for Washington D.C. residents, a young woman there was chased into her house by an armed man and shot to death. Her brother publicly condemned authorities for not going far enough with "gun control". My reaction at the time was, if the young woman had been permitted to legally own a gun, she might have had a chance at defending herself; as it is, the law disarmed her and did nothing whatever to disarm her murderer.

stjames1_53
03-26-2018, 07:52 PM
Attrition.

so, you want a war....I'll mark you down for the other side, The Graboids

Crepitus
03-26-2018, 07:59 PM
so, you want a war....I'll mark you down for the other side, The Graboids

WTF you talking about?

Who said anything about war?

Chris
03-26-2018, 07:59 PM
You asked a question, I gave you a direct and sensible answer.

If you don't like it tough.

Actually I asked Zero and I asked "If they're so smart, how do they connect offered solutions to the problem?" And no you didn't answer at all.

texan
03-26-2018, 07:59 PM
...and it's a total nonstarter.

First of all most of this is a states issue.

Database, machine guns and simulators, loopholes, mental healthcare. Most people are for this stuff what’s the big issue it? Can’t have everything but much of it’s fine.

roadmaster
03-26-2018, 08:05 PM
Many on the left claim police are killing them on the streets. So they think unarming citizens is the answer and only police and government should have guns. They trust the police and government to protect them and them only to be armed in one breath while calling cops Nazis and KKK.


Never listen to a liberal

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 08:46 PM
No it's not.
Actually it is.

There have been several Liberals that have been caught on open mics and some just come out as say it.

Socialism and Communism only go so far peacefully, then for the people pushing the lie to gain the real power need to kill off the opposition and those that ask too many questions.

The Founders knew this, and thus we have a second amendment.

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 08:52 PM
lol...those kids are smarter and better adjusted than a lot of this forum. I took my son to the march Saturday and was impressed.And, guess what?Millennials now outnumber boomers. In November, wave bye to a lot of old white Republicans (and a few especially crazy younger ones) and watch as their numbers dwindle over the next two years.

These kids are thinking ahead, unlike morons who yearn for the wild wild west.
We actually started to see this in the last 2 years my son was in college.

the left as they always do has gone to far, Young people understand that it is not homophobic to not let perverts use the women's bathroom.

They understand that a violent black person that is shot by the police is a good thing just as it is when a violent White person is shot.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/05/how_pc_culture_and_safe_spaces_facilitate_the_rise _of_conservatism.html

Why do you think the left is working so hard to get the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 08:56 PM
The same way people not being allowed to own hand grenades has kept hand grenade deaths down.
Really

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.3NA3eMy1nytHg8Ep0t7AVQHaGL&pid=Api

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.uAbtIVhXlmUGNyLMDSKe_gHaEo&w=291&h=181&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.25&pid=1.7

Would you like to put the death totals up against the school shootings?

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 08:58 PM
Deaths by hand grenade are generally suicides.

I'll wait for a smart answer, not a smartass one.

Sorry to my fellow Polls.

What do you do if a Pollock throws a pin at you???

Run like hell that idiot has a grenade in his mouth.

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 09:00 PM
You asked a question, I gave you a direct and sensible answer.
If you don't like it tough.

Actually it was not sensible. there are millions of what the Dems call assault weapons in the market and if they really got serious about making a ban there would be millions more before they got the legislation through.

Just like I ask all good Liberals if you go to confiscation? What would be your acceptable losses? 10 million, 20 million? just how many people are you willing to kill to disarm the public.

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 09:02 PM
No solution is perfect.
True but the things that they are recommending save Zero lives.

For goodness sake one of the shooters killed his mother to get the guns.

Mister D
03-26-2018, 09:03 PM
Sorry to my fellow Polls.

What do you do if a Pollock throws a pin at you???

Run like hell that idiot has a grenade in his mouth.
Pollocks don't have arms. They're fish, ya dumb Polack.

zelmo1234
03-26-2018, 09:05 PM
Pollocks don't have arms. They're fish, ya dumb Polack.
I was not going to get ban from a thread for being racist....

Mister D
03-26-2018, 09:05 PM
I was not going to get ban from a thread for being racist....

:wink:

Cletus
03-26-2018, 10:57 PM
lol...those kids are smarter and better adjusted than a lot of this forum. I took my son to the march Saturday and was impressed.

And, guess what?

Millennials now outnumber boomers. In November, wave bye to a lot of old white Republicans (and a few especially crazy younger ones) and watch as their numbers dwindle over the next two years.

These kids are thinking ahead, unlike morons who yearn for the wild wild west.

Eventually, those kids will grow up and for most of them, their heads will get unstuck from their asses. The ones who don't will become low level State Department flunkies.

Cletus
03-26-2018, 10:58 PM
I'll wait for a smart answer, not a smartass one.
Don't expect to hear from him any time soon.

Should I expect to get thread banned in 24 hours for that?

Cletus
03-26-2018, 11:00 PM
First of all most of this is a states issue.

Database, machine guns and simulators, loopholes, mental healthcare. Most people are for this stuff what’s the big issue it? Can’t have everything but much of it’s fine.

The vast majority of it is bullshit.

Simulators?

stjames1_53
03-27-2018, 04:28 AM
Attrition.
so, suspend the CONUS , declare martial law, declare war on 1/3 of America.........go for it
realize of course, you'll be a target, too, because you own guns.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 07:48 AM
Really

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.3NA3eMy1nytHg8Ep0t7AVQHaGL&pid=Api

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.uAbtIVhXlmUGNyLMDSKe_gHaEo&w=291&h=181&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.25&pid=1.7

Would you like to put the death totals up against the school shootings?

Yes. Really. Neither of those was done with a hand grenade.

Plus, as previously mentioned, no solution is perfect. There are laws against murder. They don't stop all murders, but doesnthst mean we shouldn't have them?

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 07:49 AM
Actually it was not sensible. there are millions of what the Dems call assault weapons in the market and if they really got serious about making a ban there would be millions more before they got the legislation through.

Just like I ask all good Liberals if you go to confiscation? What would be your acceptable losses? 10 million, 20 million? just how many people are you willing to kill to disarm the public.

WTF are you talking about?

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 07:50 AM
True but the things that they are recommending save Zero lives.

For goodness sake one of the shooters killed his mother to get the guns.

Prove that the proposed solutions would save no lives.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 07:51 AM
so, suspend the CONUS , declare martial law, declare war on 1/3 of America.........go for it
realize of course, you'll be a target, too, because you own guns.

For the second time today in the same thread I ask:
WTF are you talking about?

stjames1_53
03-27-2018, 07:52 AM
WTF are you talking about?

To use the word you gave me...........attrition. that is your answer. Martial law...you do realize that they will have to suspend the Constitution to collect all those e-vile guns. You would be as much a target as the rest of us. Careful what you wish for

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 07:54 AM
To use the word you gave me...........attrition. that is your answer. Martial law...you do realize that they will have to suspend the Constitution to collect all those e-vile guns. You would be as much a target as the rest of us. Careful what you wish for

Please explain your tormented thought processes connecting attrition to martial law.

stjames1_53
03-27-2018, 07:58 AM
Please explain your tormented thought processes connecting attrition to martial law.

don't play stupid, unless you really are ignorant about attrition It will result in war. You're not giving up your guns........... why are you so eager to eliminate the BoR for everyone else?

Chris
03-27-2018, 08:06 AM
Attrition: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 08:09 AM
don't play stupid, unless you really are ignorant about attrition It will result in war. You're not giving up your guns........... why are you so eager to eliminate the BoR for everyone else?

That doesn't actually address my question.

Nice attempt at dieflection though.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 08:10 AM
Attrition: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison

Totally unrelated to the discussion.

Mister D
03-27-2018, 08:10 AM
Totally unrelated to the discussion.
lol

Mister D
03-27-2018, 08:12 AM
Attrition: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison
They always give away their true intentions albeit unwittingly. All gun control measures are perceived as attrition. This is precisely why no one trusts them.

Chris
03-27-2018, 08:14 AM
Totally unrelated to the discussion.

I think it might well be related to what stjames1_53 is telling you.

Now whether the people will react and rebel or die like a frog in gradually boiling water, hard to tell.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 08:15 AM
I think it might well be related to what stjames1_53 is telling you.

Now whether the people will react and rebel or die like a frog in gradually boiling water, hard to tell.

St James is jumping.to conclusions. I'm not talking about taking anything from anyone.

Chris
03-27-2018, 08:26 AM
St James is jumping.to conclusions. I'm not talking about taking anything from anyone.

Oh but yes you are. You're the one constantly advocating taking "assault" weapons away.

stjames1_53
03-27-2018, 08:29 AM
That doesn't actually address my question.

Nice attempt at dieflection though.

my question to you was, how are you going to collect all of these guns in America? You stated "attrition".........and I responded to it could lead to war on this continent.
Have you ever been in a country where martial law was in effect? That is attrition...........

MisterVeritis
03-27-2018, 08:36 AM
Prove that the proposed solutions would save no lives.
If your goals is merely to save lives why not simply ban cell phones, swimming pools, doctors, hospitals, automobiles, and abortions?

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 09:24 AM
Oh but yes you are. You're the one constantly advocating taking "assault" weapons away.

Stop selling them. Don't allow private sales. Offer periodic buy back programs. Through attrition, without taking a single gun that people don't want to free give up, eventually they will no longer be a problem and not one single casualty.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 09:34 AM
my question to you was, how are you going to collect all of these guns in America? You stated "attrition".........and I responded to it could lead to war on this continent.
Have you ever been in a country where martial law was in effect? That is attrition...........

First yes, I have. Several in fact and they are not as a general rule nice places. Second, the word attrition while often associated with the word war they aren't inherently related. Attrition simply means to gradually or slowly reduce something over time.

ripmeister
03-27-2018, 11:06 AM
the final answer is to confiscate all weapons in the US in the hands of law abiding civilians.
How are you goint to get enough of them to make a difference?
Did you know when Australia turned to confiscation, they automatically turned 1/3 of their population into felons when they had not done anything.
Great idea, Shakespeare. How are you going to get these guns from the gangsters?

You realize of course that's what is desired at the end of this "gun *ahem* control" thing.
I'm not in favor of the confiscation of all weapons.

Chris
03-27-2018, 11:20 AM
Stop selling them. Don't allow private sales. Offer periodic buy back programs. Through attrition, without taking a single gun that people don't want to free give up, eventually they will no longer be a problem and not one single casualty.

Are you supportive of public accommodation laws?

Tahuyaman
03-27-2018, 11:50 AM
You asked a question, I gave you a direct and sensible answer.

If you don't like it tough.


A direct and sensible answer? Where? With you that's never happened.

Chris
03-27-2018, 03:14 PM
A direct and sensible answer? Where? With you that's never happened.

He tossed a hand grenade.

https://s31.postimg.org/eskdyhimj/giphy.gif

Chris
03-27-2018, 03:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y269PpVcFX0



The students from Stoneman Douglas have earned praise for their leadership in demanding that Congress take decisive action. But there's another consequence of this movement: the Parkland mass shooting seems to be stoking irrational fear about gun violence in schools.

You would have come away from the March for Our Lives Rally thinking there's a school shooting epidemic in America. But what happened at Stoneman Douglas was an extremely rare occurrence. American schools are profoundly safe, and most likely getting safer: According to researchers at Northeastern University, shooting incidents involving students have actually decreased in recent years, and in the 1990s the overall crime rate was much higher than it is today. The rate of homicides from firearms in the U.S. has plummeted. In fact, students are orders of magnitude more likely to die in a car crash on their way to school than they are to be gunned down in their classrooms.

@ March for Our Lives Kids Don’t Know Their Schools Are Actually Really Safe (http://reason.com/blog/2018/03/27/march-for-our-lives-schools-are-safe)

MMC
03-27-2018, 04:20 PM
Parkland Survivor Fudges This Statistic In Essay Promoting Gun Control.....


Liberals worship at the altar of government, which failed to keep these kids safe. Where’s that in the national televised news media? Now, that’s established, let’s delve into what Emma Gonzalez, one of leading voices of this new gun control movement, said in her essay for Teen Vogue.


Again, I get the legislative goals, but when the Left says they don’t wan to ban all guns; it’s a gun ban. When they want common sense gun control, it’s laying down the foundation for just that. We can’t trust them. The March for Our Lives rally in D.C. pointed that out, where hordes of signs called for gun bans and the abolition of the Second Amendment.


First, car accidents are THE number one (http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-auto-accidents-top-teen-killer-20140603-story.html) killer of teens:


Two, mass shootings are rare. Three, school shootings are rare. Four, schools are safer than they were in 1990s. Five, violent crime is on the decline, with gun homicides remaining low. In fact, firearm related homicides have dropped (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/report-sharp-drop-in-gun-violence-but-most-killings-still-involve-firearms/2013/05/07/28f96904-b694-11e2-92f3-f291801936b8_story.html?utm_term=.3ae72802a542) significantly since 1993 (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/). As for the former points about schools, well, that’s not an NRA study. It’s from Northeastern (https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/). More kids die walking or riding their bikes to school than from shootings at school.


We’ve been here before, folks. Gun control activists tried to go federal in 2013 and failed, exhausting some of the most precious time of Barack Obama’s second term. They tried to go at the state-level with some success, albeit in states that were already run by Democrats. We need to forget these victories. Yes, we’ve stopped the anti-gun wave, but we have to act as if we’re down with every renewed fight to strip law-abiding Americans of their Second Amendment rights. It’s not just an attack on this amendment, but all of them. An attack on one amendment in the Bill of Rights is an attack on all......snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/03/27/parkland-survivor-fudges-this-statistic-in-essay-promoting-gun-control-n2465038


The Demos are trying to hold on to this issue. Since they don't have anything else for their platform in 2018. Other than raise taxes and impeach Trump.


Shut them down now with their exploitation of kids. Then they have nothing going into the summer. More and more people are buying guns. More women are buying guns. each and everytime the left jumps on their gun control people go out and stock up. People who never owned a gun go out and buy one.


Start throwing those facts out there at the Democrats. Humiliate them in front of the cameras.

ripmeister
03-27-2018, 04:48 PM
He tossed a hand grenade.

https://s31.postimg.org/eskdyhimj/giphy.gif
LOL! Great! :grin:

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 05:13 PM
Are you supportive of public accommodation laws?

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

stjames1_53
03-27-2018, 06:31 PM
No it's not.
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arm are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

only a criminal would demand my guns. You a criminal?

"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

or are you a socialist...

Chris
03-27-2018, 06:35 PM
What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Think.

Oh, wait, sorry.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 08:12 PM
Think.

Oh, wait, sorry.

You can explain, or you can continue playing with yourself.

What's it gonna be kid?

Chris
03-27-2018, 08:14 PM
You can explain, or you can continue playing with yourself.

What's it gonna be kid?

Not worth it, you'll just retort wiseassedly.

Crepitus
03-27-2018, 08:16 PM
Not worth it, you'll just retort wiseassedly.

Enjoy, but be careful. I hear you can go blind that way.

Common
03-27-2018, 08:25 PM
Anyone that has any knowledge at all of ports knows that anything and everything comes through them.

When I was still working we on occaision busted crates of illegal assault rifles coming into the country manufactured abroad.

MMC
03-28-2018, 07:46 AM
A new epithet emerges for Parkland teens calling for more gun control: Nazis .....


For weeks, the Florida teenagers who became activists after the Parkland school shooting have been subjected to harsh treatment by many of those critical of their calls for more gun control.


First, many of the activists were smeared falsely as “crisis actors” by conspiracy theorists and hoaxers on the Internet in the immediate wake of the tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. They continue to be lightning rods for some conservative media and politicians, despite some indications (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/the-scene-at-the-march-for-our-lives-rally-in-washington/2018/03/24/94dd04a4-2ef9-11e8-8688-e053ba58f1e4_gallery.html?utm_term=.e6410abcae10) that they enjoy wide support (https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/voters-like-high-school-gun-protesters-dont-like-nra/) nationally. Now, they are being likened to Nazis.


Mary Franson, a Republican state representative in Minnesota, also appeared to link the student activists with the Hitler Youth, in Facebook posts on Saturday that drew wide condemnation, according to local media reports (http://www.citypages.com/news/rep-mary-franson-compares-march-for-our-lives-kids-to-hitler-youth/478026603).


After hundreds of thousands of people had marched in cities around the country, she shared posts critical of the students and their views on gun control that night, including one that quoted another person calling Hogg “Supreme Leader Hogg,” reports said (http://www.startribune.com/rep-mary-franson-s-facebook-posts-appear-to-link-march-for-our-lives-participants-to-hitler-youth/478086313/). Then she shared a Hitler quote about how the views of youth in the Nazi movement were formed......snip~


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-new-epithet-emerges-for-parkland-teens-calling-for-more-gun-control-nazis/ar-BBKNycy?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp



Oh my, the leftness is upset as to what the tennie bopper Anti Gun nuts are being called. All this after the Lame Stream and activist groups thought it was okay to exploit children.

Note that part about.....for weeks they have been out there talking shit about the NRA and then Republicans.

Message to the teenie boppers.....take your lame asses back to school. The real world is to much for you to handle.

Standing Wolf
03-28-2018, 08:11 AM
Message to the teenie boppers.....take your lame asses back to school. The real world is to much for you to handle.

And give up being America's latest "reality" star personalities? No, they will continue to try to make the world into a "safe space" until the media moves on to the next Big Thing and the kids have to come to grips with the fact that emotions, hyperbole and ignorance are only cute and entertaining for so long.

Chris
03-28-2018, 08:18 AM
I still side with the kids voicing their opinion. Free speech, democratic process, and all that.

I just hope they also listen to their critics. Free speech, democratic process, and all that.

MMC
03-28-2018, 08:25 AM
I still side with the kids voicing their opinion. Free speech, democratic process, and all that.

I just hope they also listen to their critics. Free speech, democratic process, and all that.



They voiced. Got that Free Speech in....even Demos know when to shut up. Just sayin.

gamewell45
03-28-2018, 08:33 AM
Perhaps, but to achieve a modicum of goals one generally asks for more than they realistically expect to get. Regardless of what one thinks of these kids and their movement I'm heartened by their engagement. Teenagers and young adults are so often dissed for their apathy when it comes to politics that I find this to be a good sign for the future.

Agreed; furthermore, most people need to realize that within 10 years the chances are good that the millennial's will be calling the shots in our country, so we need to be prepared for change to occur when it comes to gun ownership as unpopular as it may seem at this time.

MMC
03-28-2018, 03:07 PM
And give up being America's latest "reality" star personalities? No, they will continue to try to make the world into a "safe space" until the media moves on to the next Big Thing and the kids have to come to grips with the fact that emotions, hyperbole and ignorance are only cute and entertaining for so long.



Parkland Activist: Stop the Divisiveness. Also, the NRA Are 'Pathetic F---ers That Want to Keep Killing Our Children'....


https://media.townhall.com/townhall/reu/ha/images/2018/86/7713127d-9ee7-46cd-8e4f-48aefdc3b77f.png


In my post yesterday (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/27/conservatives-beware-of-parkland-hoaxes-designed-to-discredit-leftwing-survivors-n2465148), I defended Parkland shooting survivor David Hogg against inaccurate claims that he wasn't in school on the day of the massacre, falsely spun out of an answer he gave during a CBS News interview. I argued that even when we disagree on policy, and even when we abhor their framing of issues and dissenting views, we should not repeat hoaxes or smears against victims and survivors. Or anyone else, for that matter. But I also argued that targets of ugly vilification shouldn't feel obligated to sit and grimace through the abuse without responding. Measured replies and thoughtful criticisms are warranted. Hogg, who is the nastiest communicator (https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03/25/parkland-student-price-tag-represents-much-marco-rubio-took-every-life-ended-school/) among his activist clique (which excludes 'inconvenient (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/26/brother-of-parkland-victim-gun-control-advocates-need-to-stop-abusing-my-sisters-memory-to-push-an-agenda-she-didnt-support-n2464523)' victims and survivors), is showing no signs of tamping down his grossly inappropriate -- and increasingly self-defeating, frankly -- rhetoric. The Free Beacon aggregates some of the demagogic lowlights (http://freebeacon.com/issues/david-hogg-wild/):


I bring fresh attention to these quotes because Hogg has taken to attacking Republican politicians for pursuing "the goal of dividing America (https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/978631102184161280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhotair.com%2F%3Fp%3D4057994) :"


Hogg is rarely challenged (https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2018/03/26/cnns-stelter-admits-he-let-david-hogg-get-away-lies-about) on this approach because he's carrying a media immunity card. Allahpundit exposes (https://hotair.com/?p=4057994&preview=true) the cynical game adult leftists are playing in elevating people like Hogg as serious leaders while casting any criticism of them as the unseemly dirty work of 'bad guys:'


The Parkland students also have a dual identity that can be switched out as political circumstances require. When they’re attacking, they’re the inspiring young leaders of a policy push that’s going to succeed where so many adult-led efforts have failed. Don’t dismiss them because of their age. They know what they’re talking about and they deserve to be heard. Then, when they’re heard and criticized for their arguments or their rhetoric, they’re the apolitical child victims of a horrendous tragedy. You want to bicker about policy with … a kid? Whose friends were just murdered? What is wrong with you?


Here's a clue: Hogg has declared that his commentary hasn't been "provocative" enough (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/03/27/cnn-host-informs-david-hogg-of-rubios-efforts-in-the-senate-n2465030)thus far. So it seems like he's more likely to go the route of unhinged Nazi gas chamber comparisons long before he even considers a modest walk back of any sort. Behold, our "debate."....snip~


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/03/28/antigun-parkland-activist-my-opponents-are-pathetic-fers-that-want-to-keep-killing-our-children-n2465310



There is no debate with this teenie bopping mope. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Disrespect with disrespect. Taking the high ground only emboldens the asshole to keep on keeping on.

Agent Zero
04-04-2018, 03:37 PM
If they're so smart, how do they connect offered solutions to the problem?

Can you repeat that gibberish in proper English, Chris?

Chris
04-04-2018, 03:59 PM
Can you repeat that gibberish in proper English, Chris?

Not that you'll get.

Common Sense
04-04-2018, 04:51 PM
it is one thing to have sensible debates not postulated on emotional rhetoric, it is another to react with pure emotionalism. So let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution, claim as that young girl stated everything to be directly related to bigotry and racism, and just immediately confiscate all guns, regardless.
I've not broken any laws with the couple I own, WFT should I surrender any Right to a bunch of snot-nosed brats who think that emotionalism is better than thought.
I got a question for you, how are you going to get all of these guns?
and another thing, there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.

You start off by saying deriding emotional rhetoric, but then go on to say "let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution...". That in itself is emotional rhetoric. No one is saying let's dissolve the constitution or toss rights out the window.

To be fair, the emotional rhetoric and hyperbole are coming from both sides.

As the gun show loophole, there is indeed a loophole. Private sales at gun shows require no background check.

stjames1_53
04-04-2018, 04:59 PM
You start off by saying deriding emotional rhetoric, but then go on to say "let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution...". That in itself is emotional rhetoric. No one is saying let's dissolve the constitution or toss rights out the window.

To be fair, the emotional rhetoric and hyperbole are coming from both sides.

As the gun show loophole, there is indeed a loophole. Private sales at gun shows require no background check.

private sales require no background check anywhere, as far as I know. But "private sales/public sales" between an authorized dealer with proper papers will run a background check on every firearm sale he runs. I can sell one of my firearms and it is still considered to be a private sale.
Registration leads to confiscation. Period.

Common Sense
04-04-2018, 05:12 PM
private sales require no background check anywhere, as far as I know. But "private sales/public sales" between an authorized dealer with proper papers will run a background check on every firearm sale he runs. I can sell one of my firearms and it is still considered to be a private sale.
Registration leads to confiscation. Period.
You can also set up a table at a gun show and sell dozens of firearms and not be an authorized dealer.

Claiming that hat registration leads to confiscation is purely speculation and is in the emotional rhetoric ballpark.

MMC
04-04-2018, 05:17 PM
You can also set up a table at a gun show and sell dozens of firearms and not be an authorized dealer.

Claiming that hat registration leads to confiscation is purely speculation and is in the emotional rhetoric ballpark.

Really.....like you have seen that done, huh? Link that up for us. Oh and show us how that is done in States and Cities governed by the Left.

stjames1_53
04-04-2018, 05:23 PM
You can also set up a table at a gun show and sell dozens of firearms and not be an authorized dealer.

Claiming that hat registration leads to confiscation is purely speculation and is in the emotional rhetoric ballpark.

nope. I have worked such venues. You are not allowed to do that under penalty of arrest. These shows would last long if they started allowing people to vend without permission or licensing. You have no idea how a legitimate gun show is run. For the dealers who attend, this is coveted ground. No one sets up when they haven't registered, pay for their vending, and have their paper work in order.
Someone has fed you a line of BS about gun shows. There is no loop hole whatsoever for legit shows.

stjames1_53
04-04-2018, 05:25 PM
You can also set up a table at a gun show and sell dozens of firearms and not be an authorized dealer.

Claiming that hat registration leads to confiscation is purely speculation and is in the emotional rhetoric ballpark.
some one has lied to you twice:
http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/96260-Deerfield-Bans-Semiautomatic-Weapons-Residents-Face-Steep-Fines

MMC
04-04-2018, 05:27 PM
nope. I have worked such venues. You are not allowed to do that under penalty of arrest. These shows would last long if they started allowing people to vend without permission or licensing. You have no idea how a legitimate gun show is run. For the dealers who attend, this is coveted ground. No one sets up when they haven't registered, pay for their vending, and have their paper work in order.
Someone has fed you a line of BS about gun shows. There is no loop hole whatsoever for legit shows.

He must have been talking about those banger gun shows set up in the garage, huh? :laugh:

stjames1_53
04-04-2018, 06:28 PM
He must have been talking about those banger gun shows set up in the garage, huh? :laugh:

gang banger fire sale

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/d/db/Narctrunk.JPG/500px-Narctrunk.JPG

Don
04-04-2018, 06:42 PM
...and it's a total nonstarter.

"Our Manifesto."

http://b2.ifrm.com/17/153/0/p716292/bc.jpg

Manifestos are for communists and the unibomber.

stjames1_53
04-05-2018, 08:14 AM
Where Common Sense did you go? No response? .............the usual tactic...........lie and run

MMC
04-05-2018, 08:18 AM
gang banger fire sale

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/d/db/Narctrunk.JPG/500px-Narctrunk.JPG

You forgot the Music that goes with it. :wink:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nym7GgWfmE

MMC
04-05-2018, 08:19 AM
Where @Common Sense (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1085) did you go? No response? .............the usual tactic...........lie and run

Oh, and I thought he was still looking for a link. :laugh:

Cletus
04-05-2018, 10:25 AM
You start off by saying deriding emotional rhetoric, but then go on to say "let's toss Rights out the window, dissolve the Constitution...". That in itself is emotional rhetoric. No one is saying let's dissolve the constitution or toss rights out the window.

To be fair, the emotional rhetoric and hyperbole are coming from both sides.

As the gun show loophole, there is indeed a loophole. Private sales at gun shows require no background check.

That is not a loophole. Private sales anywhere do not require a NICS check. That is not an oversight. The law was deliberately worded to protect private property rights.

Common Sense
04-05-2018, 04:11 PM
nope. I have worked such venues. You are not allowed to do that under penalty of arrest. These shows would last long if they started allowing people to vend without permission or licensing. You have no idea how a legitimate gun show is run. For the dealers who attend, this is coveted ground. No one sets up when they haven't registered, pay for their vending, and have their paper work in order.
Someone has fed you a line of BS about gun shows. There is no loop hole whatsoever for legit shows.

Yes, they have to register with the venue, but they don't have to be a licensed dealer to sell at a gun show.

Even this NRA piece on gun shows acknowledges private sales at gun shows.

Common Sense
04-05-2018, 04:12 PM
Where @Common Sense (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1085) did you go? No response? .............the usual tactic...........lie and run

Sorry, I work for a living. Can't always be at your beck and call.

MMC
04-05-2018, 04:34 PM
Sorry, I work for a living. Can't always be at your beck and call.

Did you find that link about setting up a table at gun shows and selling privately, yet?

stjames1_53
04-05-2018, 06:24 PM
Yes, they have to register with the venue, but they don't have to be a licensed dealer to sell at a gun show.

Even this NRA piece on gun shows acknowledges private sales at gun shows.
where's your link to support this claim?
Again, you have no idea how a gun show is set up and how it is executed.
There are no illegal table sales at legit gun shows. The paying vendors would not allow it.

Common Sense
04-05-2018, 08:41 PM
where's your link to support this claim?
Again, you have no idea how a gun show is set up and how it is executed.
There are no illegal table sales at legit gun shows. The paying vendors would not allow it.
I never claimed there were illegal tables. I said that not all vendors at gun shows are licensed dealers, but rather private sellers.

Vendors pay for a table and sell their wares. Many are licensed vendors who sell firearms for a living. Others are private sellers.

I forgot the link in my previous post.


https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/3/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-gun-shows/

"Sales through FFL dealers and private transactions at a gun show function exactly the same as they would outside of a gun show."

Ethereal
04-05-2018, 08:50 PM
Agreed; furthermore, most people need to realize that within 10 years the chances are good that the millennial's will be calling the shots in our country, so we need to be prepared for change to occur when it comes to gun ownership as unpopular as it may seem at this time.
People have been assuming that these teens are somehow representative of the entire millennial cohort. I've seen no evidence of that. But even if the majority of millennial are sympathetic to the gun control agenda espoused by these teens, it won't make any difference. Americans are not going to register or forfeit their guns just because the government tells them to. At best, new gun laws will be used as a further excuse for police to harass and imprison poor people while the middle and upper classes simply ignore the laws with virtual impunity like they always do.

Ethereal
04-05-2018, 08:52 PM
As the gun show loophole, there is indeed a loophole. Private sales at gun shows require no background check.
Good. Private individuals should not require permission from the government to sell their personal property to another willing party. The federal government has no such authority in any case. Indeed, they are expressly prohibited from requiring as much.

stjames1_53
04-05-2018, 09:10 PM
I never claimed there were illegal tables. I said that not all vendors at gun shows are licensed dealers, but rather private sellers. Vendors pay for a table and sell their wares. Many are licensed vendors who sell firearms for a living. Others are private sellers. I forgot the link in my previous post. https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/3/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-gun-shows/ "Sales through FFL dealers and private transactions at a gun show function exactly the same as they would outside of a gun show." You're not getting it. You're quote does not indicate that what you claim is done. Now, If you've ever vended at such an event, you would know that the big guns at said show wouldn't allow such a thing. It cuts into their profit. If you work a gun show, you would know that there are feds everywhere just looking for such sales, at least here in Indiana. You cannot pose as a legitimate business and set up a private booth. If you vend, you must declare your guns before entering. All guns are checked, and temporarily sealed at the door. If you are selling firearms, you must have an FFL or you don't enter. If they catch you selling guns, undeclared, you get charged with a federal crime. Now, that is only inside the event. Outside, why would anyone attract attention in a public parking venue, loaded with cops, and security cameras everywhere? I don't know if you've ever gone to one, and it sounds like not, but it's not the way it's been explained to you. If you decide to go to one, be prepared to walk through several metal detectors and no packages. BTW, there's never been a shooting inside such an event, not even with all of those e-vile guns.

Common Sense
04-05-2018, 09:12 PM
Good. Private individuals should not require permission from the government to sell their personal property to another willing party. The federal government has no such authority in any case. Indeed, they are expressly prohibited from requiring as much.

I'm not implying they require permission, but rather some accountability. Selling a car requires certain procedures and paperwork. Selling an AK at a gun show by a private seller only requires the promise they aren't a felon and proof of legal age.

I'm not saying get rid of gun shows or even advocating for a registry. I just think background checks should be done for all firearms sales. I too am a gun owner.

Common Sense
04-05-2018, 09:18 PM
You're not getting it. You're quote does not indicate that what you claim is done.
Now, If you've ever vended at such an event, you would know that the big guns at said show wouldn't allow such a thing. It cuts into their profit. If you work a gun show, you would know that their are feds everywhere just looking for such sales, at least here in Indiana. You cannot pose as a legitimate business and set up a private booth. If you vend, you must declare your guns before entering. All guns are checked, and temporarily sealed at the door. If you are selling firearms, you must have an FFL or you don't enter. If they catch you selling guns, undeclared, you get charged with a federal crime.
Now, that is only inside the event. Outside, why would anyone attract attention in a public parking venue, loaded with cops, and security cameras everywhere?
I don't know if you've ever gone to one, and it sounds like not, but it's not the way it's been explained to you.
If you decide to go to one, be prepared to walk through several metal detectors and no packages.
BTW, there's never been a shooting inside such an event, not even with all of those e-vile guns.
That may be true at the gun shows you have attended, but not at all shows.

Private sellers without an FFL do indeed sell at gun shows.

Here is a link the Premier Gun Shows rules...

http://www.premiergunshows.com/wp-content/uploads/Exhibitor-Rules-1.pdf


"Persons who sell guns from their personal collection, and who do notderive their livelihood from the sale of firearms nor make a profit on sales, are not required tohave a FFL."
I also don't think guns are evil. I'm a gun owner myself.

gamewell45
04-05-2018, 09:40 PM
People have been assuming that these teens are somehow representative of the entire millennial cohort. I've seen no evidence of that. But even if the majority of millennial are sympathetic to the gun control agenda espoused by these teens, it won't make any difference. Americans are not going to register or forfeit their guns just because the government tells them to. At best, new gun laws will be used as a further excuse for police to harass and imprison poor people while the middle and upper classes simply ignore the laws with virtual impunity like they always do.
It's safe to say that only time will tell how all this will play out. In ten years we can look back and be able to say what direction the country eventually took.

Cletus
04-05-2018, 10:07 PM
It will go the way of the Constitution or it will cease to exist.

In ten years no one will even know who Hogg was unless he shoots up a school or something.

Ethereal
04-05-2018, 11:43 PM
I'm not implying they require permission, but rather some accountability. Selling a car requires certain procedures and paperwork. Selling an AK at a gun show by a private seller only requires the promise they aren't a felon and proof of legal age.

I'm not saying get rid of gun shows or even advocating for a registry. I just think background checks should be done for all firearms sales. I too am a gun owner.

The legal aspects of selling a car are regulated at the State and local level, not the federal level. The federal government has no authority over the private sale of cars or firearms.

Ethereal
04-05-2018, 11:44 PM
It's safe to say that only time will tell how all this will play out. In ten years we can look back and be able to say what direction the country eventually took.

Do you think millions of gun owners are going to register or forfeit their firearms just because the government tells them to?

gamewell45
04-06-2018, 12:37 AM
Do you think millions of gun owners are going to register or forfeit their firearms just because the government tells them to?

If the laws and constitution are legally changed, I'd expect all law abiding citizens to comply.

Ethereal
04-06-2018, 01:11 AM
If the laws and constitution are legally changed, I'd expect all law abiding citizens to comply.
Your expectations are unrealistic.

gamewell45
04-06-2018, 01:15 AM
Your expectations are unrealistic.

It remains to be seen. In ten years, millions of gun owners will have passed away; will the younger generations want to possess guns to the degree as the current gun owners do? Or will other things be more important to them?? Only time will tell.

Ethereal
04-06-2018, 01:19 AM
It remains to be seen. In ten years, millions of gun owners will have passed away; will the younger generations want to possess guns to the degree as the current gun owners do? Or will other things be more important to them?? Only time will tell.
I'm only in my thirties. Most of my friends are of the same age. If our guns hadn't been lost in a boating incident, you can be sure we'd never, ever give them up willingly.

gamewell45
04-06-2018, 01:23 AM
I'm only in my thirties. Most of my friends are of the same age. If our guns hadn't been lost in a boating incident, you can be sure we'd never, ever give them up willingly.
That's up to you and your conscience. While I own no guns, if the laws and constitution were legally changed, since I'm not above the law, I'd turn them in without hesitation.

Cletus
04-06-2018, 02:46 AM
If the laws and constitution are legally changed, I'd expect all law abiding citizens to comply.

The Second Amendment will never be repealed. An argument can be made that it cannot be repealed.

stjames1_53
04-06-2018, 04:18 AM
The Second Amendment will never be repealed. An argument can be made that it cannot be repealed.
some absolutely trust the nanny state.
I look to history to advise me NOT to surrender my firearms.

stjames1_53
04-06-2018, 04:20 AM
Yes, they have to register with the venue, but they don't have to be a licensed dealer to sell at a gun show.

Even this NRA piece on gun shows acknowledges private sales at gun shows.

I'm telling you that in order for you to participate in a legit gun show, in INDIANA, you cannot display or sell a firearm at a gun show without an FFL.

Ethereal
04-06-2018, 06:06 AM
That's up to you and your conscience. While I own no guns, if the laws and constitution were legally changed, since I'm not above the law, I'd turn them in without hesitation.
There is only one law. And it isn't written by politicians.

MMC
04-06-2018, 06:13 AM
There is only one law. And it isn't written by politicians.

By the Empire.....Right?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8cs0nNpbp1rdnyzjo1_r2_1280.gif

Ethereal
04-06-2018, 06:24 AM
By the Empire.....Right?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8cs0nNpbp1rdnyzjo1_r2_1280.gif


When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

MMC
04-06-2018, 06:37 AM
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation......snip~


I have learned that to be with those I like....is Enough- Walt Whitman.

stjames1_53
04-06-2018, 06:39 AM
foreigners just don't get it about Rights............

donttread
04-06-2018, 08:51 AM
...and it's a total nonstarter.

When did we as a society start confusing real victims ( vs. all the faux victims of liberal land) with experts on the type of crime they were victimized by? So if a young woman is raped or beaten and helpless while her friend is raped does that make her an expert in rape prevention somehow? If a man is mugged and beaten into a coma does that make either he or the inevitable cell phone picture snapping onlookers experts in the prevention of violent crime? Have we become so inundated with pretend victimhood that we don't know that real victims deserve help, understanding and empathy. Do we not realize that they know no more about stopping the crimes they were victimized by than anyone else?

Common Sense
04-06-2018, 09:02 AM
I'm telling you that in order for you to participate in a legit gun show, in INDIANA, you cannot display or sell a firearm at a gun show without an FFL.

I think you're wrong. Certainly you're incorrect in claiming that private sellers aren't allowed to sell at gun shows in general. Indiana may be an exception, but I doubt it.

I haven't found anything on Indiana gun shows that require sellers to possess an FFL.

http://centralindianagunshows.com/dealer-information.html

stjames1_53
04-06-2018, 09:11 AM
I think you're wrong. Certainly you're incorrect in claiming that private sellers aren't allowed to sell at gun shows in general. Indiana may be an exception, but I doubt it.

I haven't found anything on Indiana gun shows that require sellers to possess an FFL.

http://centralindianagunshows.com/dealer-information.html

Since you've never attended a gun show, much less one in Indiana, I'm telling you it is as such. If you take a firearm to a show, and your not a vendor, while inside the event, all transfers are handled through a licensed vendor, or they'll snitch you out. Besides which, I never buy over-the-counter. I have my own system that protects me.

MisterVeritis
04-06-2018, 09:14 AM
If the laws and constitution are legally changed, I'd expect all law abiding citizens to comply.
Right. Uh, no. Slavery was once the law of the land. Legally. Slavery was unjust.

Common Sense
04-06-2018, 09:16 AM
Since you've never attended a gun show, much less one in Indiana, I'm telling you it is as such. If you take a firearm to a show, and your not a vendor, while inside the event, all transfers are handled through a licensed vendor, or they'll snitch you out. Besides which, I never buy over-the-counter. I have my own system that protects me.

You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying a vendor at the show does not need an FFL unless it's their primary business. A private individual can register with the show, rent a table and sell their guns privately with no background check.

This gun blog backs up my claim with their own links...

https://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/56426-question-about-indiana-gun-show-purchases.html

MisterVeritis
04-06-2018, 09:17 AM
That's up to you and your conscience. While I own no guns, if the laws and constitution were legally changed, since I'm not above the law, I'd turn them in without hesitation.
I am certain you will eagerly leap into the cattle cars when the time comes...

...I have no doubt you would have been a good German Jew.

gamewell45
04-06-2018, 09:18 AM
The Second Amendment will never be repealed. An argument can be made that it cannot be repealed.

I think you could make that argument. I was speaking hypothetically in response to the posters question to me.

Cletus
04-06-2018, 10:56 AM
I think you could make that argument. I was speaking hypothetically in response to the posters question to me.

Gamewell45, I don't always agree with you, but I do always find your posts to be interesting and thoughtful.

stjames1_53
04-06-2018, 11:22 AM
You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying a vendor at the show does not need an FFL unless it's their primary business. A private individual can register with the show, rent a table and sell their guns privately with no background check.

This gun blog backs up my claim with their own links...

https://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/56426-question-about-indiana-gun-show-purchases.html

...sigh.......not in Indiana.............
You can state what you guess, but you're not stating what you've witnessed. That's a fact.
In Indiana, guns shows are a public venue. Guess what, it is illegal to participate as a private entity in a gun shows in Indiana.
there is a provisio, however. If I bring a gun for private sale to a gun show I must take the purchase through a licensed dealer where they handle the paper work for a fee. The feds and state boys make sure that any firearm leaving the premises have proper paper work or they need proof that it was yours when you walked in and back out. They have their system.
If I'm going to buy a gun through private purchase, I don't do it at a public venue.
There is one exception: Black powder firearms fall into a different category. To date, I have failed to locate any semi-auto black powder anything
Question: How many guns that were supposedly purchased via private seller at a gun show have been used in any killings?
P
If the answer is none, why call it a loophole or pay attention to it at all?

Common Sense
04-06-2018, 01:18 PM
...sigh.......not in Indiana.............
You can state what you guess, but you're not stating what you've witnessed. That's a fact.
In Indiana, guns shows are a public venue. Guess what, it is illegal to participate as a private entity in a gun shows in Indiana.
there is a provisio, however. If I bring a gun for private sale to a gun show I must take the purchase through a licensed dealer where they handle the paper work for a fee. The feds and state boys make sure that any firearm leaving the premises have proper paper work or they need proof that it was yours when you walked in and back out. They have their system.
If I'm going to buy a gun through private purchase, I don't do it at a public venue.
There is one exception: Black powder firearms fall into a different category. To date, I have failed to locate any semi-auto black powder anything
Question: How many guns that were supposedly purchased via private seller at a gun show have been used in any killings?
P
If the answer is none, why call it a loophole or pay attention to it at all?

I doubt you can prove that. Eve from Indiana gun show registration forms, there is no provision or rule that vendors must possess an FFL.

Can you prove your claim?

stjames1_53
04-07-2018, 12:46 PM
I doubt you can prove that. Eve from Indiana gun show registration forms, there is no provision or rule that vendors must possess an FFL.

Can you prove your claim?

I attend...............I know the rules before I go. I don't vend. You have no experience with gun shows in Indiana. Each state establishes the rules for gun shows.
so, back to my question: how many murders have been committed by people who purchase guns from private vendors at gun shows? If you spout a claim, you should be able to back it up with SOMETHING..............
You're not being rational. Let's look at this and first give credence to your argument.
I have seen vendors set up, other than the big guns, that sell blackpowder firearms and antique firearms along with hunting equipment, and sporting supplies. So yes, they sell firearms without a background check, but black powder does not have those restrictions. In all the shows I've attended, I've never seen an AR or any pistol for sale on these vendors' tables. They cannot sell such things without an FFL. The rules apply to everyone who vends at these shows. It allows equal footing for all dealers, and the promoters know that running straight up legit show only nets them more money. 99.9% of the vendors are gun shop owners. They have a circuit for some. these guys are bringing in a lot of merchandise. Competition is damned fierce.
Now, do you really think, these guys who stand to make a buck, are going to let some little hack set up and undercut their business? Be honest. It doesn't happen. These shows crawl with cops.
You made the claim that "backdoor" sales at gun shows are responsible for how many deaths, again?
There are no statistics that back up any claim that what you're hinting at is remotely true.
Thousands of people attend these events. Thousands Even the small one we have here once a year, gets a thousand people pass through. Even in BFE where I live, you don't see public sales of hand guns or AR's unless you have an FFL. It's Indiana's way of contributing to gun control.
This "loophole" doesn't exist in Indiana gun shows. The law has no affect on what goes on outside, but inside, the law is the ruler, lock, stock, and barrel.
Before you continue with slight-liar calling, you should at least go to one. Check it out. See if what your side claims is true. Just because they say it's so, doesn't make it so.
Or prove that these types of purchases are made with the intent to murder or create mayhem

stjames1_53
04-07-2018, 12:49 PM
I doubt you can prove that. Eve from Indiana gun show registration forms, there is no provision or rule that vendors must possess an FFL.

Can you prove your claim?

yes. Join me at one. Even if I posted a link, you'd still call me a liar, like you've been doing. Either check it out or post the link that backs up your claim. There has to be some sort of statistics that back your claim up. or you're just spouting rhetoric.
You made your claim first, so, show us where these sales are a cause for concern?

countryboy
04-07-2018, 12:55 PM
...and it's a total nonstarter.
Yes, and I'm sure these "teens" came up with this list of recommendations entirely on their own. http://www.animated-smileys.com/emoticons/animated-smileys-rolleyes-08.gif

countryboy
04-07-2018, 01:07 PM
I doubt you can prove that. Eve from Indiana gun show registration forms, there is no provision or rule that vendors must possess an FFL.

Can you prove your claim?

The "gunshow loophole" myth has been thoroughly debunked. Not sure how you lefties can still cite it with a straight face.

MisterVeritis
04-07-2018, 01:22 PM
The "gunshow loophole" myth has been thoroughly debunked. Not sure how you lefties can still cite it with a straight face.
Do leftists have "straight" faces?

donttread
04-07-2018, 07:41 PM
I think you could make that argument. I was speaking hypothetically in response to the posters question to me.


The Constitution can be changed via a process that there will not be enough support for in my lifetime. But it is possible at some point

gamewell45
04-07-2018, 07:46 PM
The Constitution can be changed via a process that there will not be enough support for in my lifetime. But it is possible at some point

I would concur; likewise it's highly unlikely that I'll ever witness it if in fact it does occur, however my kids could live to see it happen if their is enough support for it.

MisterVeritis
04-07-2018, 07:47 PM
The Constitution can be changed via a process that there will not be enough support for in my lifetime. But it is possible at some point
If we cannot generate enough interest for an Article V convention now the game is over.

MisterVeritis
04-07-2018, 07:48 PM
I would concur; likewise it's highly unlikely that I'll ever witness it if in fact it does occur, however my kids could live to see it happen if their is enough support for it.
Your children will live in the chains you helped to forge.

stjames1_53
04-08-2018, 06:42 AM
The "gunshow loophole" myth has been thoroughly debunked. Not sure how you lefties can still cite it with a straight face.

yeppers. He is posting meme's. He has never been to a gun show, he has never witnessed such a thing as purchases made as he indicates, AND, he can find no sources that back up his claim. Hell, he can't even come up with any links that indicate at least one gun was purchased with the intent to murder via a guan show backdoor gun seller at a gun show..............
He just knows it's gotta be so true, yet unable to prove it..........because some "one" told him so is his only response.

stjames1_53
04-08-2018, 07:08 AM
I would concur; likewise it's highly unlikely that I'll ever witness it if in fact it does occur, however my kids could live to see it happen if their is enough support for it.

China, Russia, Cuba, Mexico, France, Belgium, Germany, Spain..............all have one thing in common. they have a disarmed populace.
What happened to the Jews after they were disarmed?
What happened to the Russians after Stalin was declare ruler?
What is happening in France, Belgium, and Germany today? Aren't they disarmed?
How many mass shootings occurred in "Gun Free" zones?

these are images of citizenry once they've been disarmed: CAUTION
http://www.ddoughty.com/uploads/1/4/0/9/14095491/5618675.jpg?1444776760

http://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1421683523i/13403780._SX540_.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/02/41/d5/0241d5db217452df0288cabd04cd48f0.jpg

ALL of these people were lawfully denied their Right to self-defense.
Why would you allow any government to hold a monopoly on violence?

gamewell45
04-08-2018, 07:40 AM
China, Russia, Cuba, Mexico, France, Belgium, Germany, Spain..............all have one thing in common. they have a disarmed populace.
What happened to the Jews after they were disarmed?
What happened to the Russians after Stalin was declare ruler?
What is happening in France, Belgium, and Germany today? Aren't they disarmed?
How many mass shootings occurred in "Gun Free" zones?

these are images of citizenry once they've been disarmed: CAUTION
http://www.ddoughty.com/uploads/1/4/0/9/14095491/5618675.jpg?1444776760

http://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1421683523i/13403780._SX540_.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/02/41/d5/0241d5db217452df0288cabd04cd48f0.jpg

ALL of these people were lawfully denied their Right to self-defense.
Why would you allow any government to hold a monopoly on violence?
You have to understand, I'm one vote and one vote only. I could vote against repeal but if everyone else votes for it, there isn't much I could do correct? Whatever the majority decides to do will legally become law whether I like it or not. That is the system this country uses as designed by our forefathers to run itself.

Peter1469
04-08-2018, 09:27 AM
You have to understand, I'm one vote and one vote only. I could vote against repeal but if everyone else votes for it, there isn't much I could do correct? Whatever the majority decides to do will legally become law whether I like it or not. That is the system this country uses as designed by our forefathers to run itself.
You can do something. Bury your weapons and wait for the revolution.

countryboy
04-08-2018, 10:02 AM
You have to understand, I'm one vote and one vote only. I could vote against repeal but if everyone else votes for it, there isn't much I could do correct? Whatever the majority decides to do will legally become law whether I like it or not. That is the system this country uses as designed by our forefathers to run itself.

The Constitution is not amended by a vote of the people, by design, thank God.

gamewell45
04-08-2018, 10:24 AM
You can do something. Bury your weapons and wait for the revolution.

I own no weapons, so in all honesty I've got nothing to bury. If we have a revolution, I'll watch the news every night to see what the battle field looks like. Not much else to be done. :)

gamewell45
04-08-2018, 10:26 AM
The Constitution is not amended by a vote of the people, by design, thank God.

You make a very good point.

Peter1469
04-08-2018, 10:28 AM
I own no weapons, so in all honesty I've got nothing to bury. If we have a revolution, I'll watch the news every night to see what the battle field looks like. Not much else to be done. :)

You can make bombs with household chemicals.

gamewell45
04-08-2018, 10:30 AM
You can make bombs with household chemicals.

LMAO....knowing me I'd probably end up blowing myself up.

Peter1469
04-08-2018, 10:45 AM
LMAO....knowing me I'd probably end up blowing myself up.

lol

Resistance is hazardous.

Tahuyaman
04-08-2018, 10:47 AM
lol

Resistance is hazardous.

That's why it's not a job for the snowflake types.

Peter1469
04-08-2018, 10:52 AM
That's why it's not a job for the snowflake types.

Maybe they could just buy the supplies and pass them off to the hard types.

stjames1_53
04-08-2018, 11:57 AM
You have to understand, I'm one vote and one vote only. I could vote against repeal but if everyone else votes for it, there isn't much I could do correct? Whatever the majority decides to do will legally become law whether I like it or not. That is the system this country uses as designed by our forefathers to run itself.

So, you would not fight to keep your rights just because some government tells you don't have them anymore? You're ok with that?

gamewell45
04-08-2018, 01:55 PM
So, you would not fight to keep your rights just because some government tells you don't have them anymore? You're ok with that?
Yes, I am.

Look, I don't believe that I should have to pay income tax based on my income, but the government say's that its the law. If I refuse to pay it, what am I to do? Spend time in prison, because that's exactly what will happen. The government (which is comprised of citizens elected to office) knows very well that the 16th amendment will not be repealed in our lifetime; as such they will enforce it with vigor.

As I said in another post in here, I'm not above the law. If I disagree strongly enough, then I'll work to change it within the framework of the constitution but that's were it stops. No threats of or violence from me.

MisterVeritis
04-08-2018, 02:18 PM
You have to understand, I'm one vote and one vote only. I could vote against repeal but if everyone else votes for it, there isn't much I could do correct? Whatever the majority decides to do will legally become law whether I like it or not. That is the system this country uses as designed by our forefathers to run itself.
This is not quite true. We have Article V for a reason.