Russian Lawmakers Pass Bill To Bar U.S. Adoptions

[Captain Obvious]

So what has really changed since the fall of the Soviet Union?

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/26/168091115/russian-lawmakers-pass-bill-to-bar-u-s-adoptions

snip


In a tit-for-tat measure, Russia's parliament has approved a bill to ban adoptions of Russian children by American citizens. President Putin has not said whether he will sign the bill, though he has voiced support for the measure. The move is in retaliation for a U.S. law that sanctions Russians accused of human rights abuses.

[roadmaster]

Our laws should be better because we have too many in orphanages that need parents. It's a shame most can't even get them out because of the red tape so they have to go to different countries. This is what we all should demand from our own country.

[Peter1469]

Russia did us a favor. Russian adoption agencies routinely lie about physical and mental health issues.

[Captain Obvious]

Russia did us a favor. Russian adoption agencies routinely lie about physical and mental health issues.

But they're not doing these orphan kids any favors.

Which is kinda ironic when you consider it's all a retaliatory reaction over a human rights move.

[roadmaster]

Russia did us a favor. Russian adoption agencies routinely lie about physical and mental health issues.

You are so correct.

[roadmaster]

But they're not doing these orphan kids any favors.

Which is kinda ironic when you consider it's all a retaliatory reaction over a human rights move.
A good reason we should start with our own. Why is it so hard for couples to adopt in our own country?

[Carygrant]

You need to look at the Magnitsky Bill to understand the background and this possible retaliation .
The law has not yet been signed by the possibly dying Putin and does not have to be for two weeks after a Duma vote .
Many top Russians are seriously opposed to it --- Medvedev and Sergei Lavrov to name fifty .

[Peter1469]

Of course they are against it. They need to get rid of their orphans and Americans take a lot of them. But the adoption agencies hid very serious physical and emotional problems with some of these kids. It is playing Russian roulette to adopt in Russia.

[Carygrant]

Of course they are against it. They need to get rid of their orphans and Americans take a lot of them. But the adoption agencies hid very serious physical and emotional problems with some of these kids. It is playing Russian roulette to adopt in Russia.


All orphans have huge challenges and sufferings . But far more significant are the reasons for the possible ban at this point -- and as I stated .
Should the very ill Putin not be persuaded to change his mind over the matter , it is reasonable to ask why did the US produce the Magnitsky Bill when far greater issues are at stake .
As you know you only stir a wasps nest if the gains will definitely exceed the short term pain .
There is no doubt that the Magnitsky case implicates the Kremlin right to Putin's feet , but America could gain so much more out of Moscow from behind the scenes discussions where such irritants like child adoption do not get in the way .
Further , it has been known for three months that Putin has possibly critical health issues and is hardly likely to talk sense when in pain and pressured by trivialities from his perspective .

[patrickt]

When I was growing up there were orphanages in the U.S. The one near where I lived was run by the Catholic church. I don't think there are any more orphanages.

[Mainecoons]

But they're not doing these orphan kids any favors.

Which is kinda ironic when you consider it's all a retaliatory reaction over a human rights move.

Actually, it is a retaliatory move to a country that doesn't understand it has no right to tell everyone in the world what to do.

The others are getting tired of it.

[Carygrant]

Actually, it is a retaliatory move to a country that doesn't understand it has no right to tell everyone in the world what to do.

The others are getting tired of it.


In general , I don't think people take a blind bit of notice when America starts waffling . All trust went a long time ago .
However , the Magnitsky Bill specifically takes actions against identified Russians --- it is much more than waffling or preaching . It is almost certainly based on hard evidence , but is not necessarily based on good political judgement .
Yet , on the other hand , the US has clear evidence that the Kremlin declared war on Poland on April 10th , 2010 yet has chosen so far to take no steps to reveal the evidence .

[Peter1469]

The US government seems to think that human rights violations by certain Russian leaders merits the law, we can agree or disagree with that.

However, whether America citizens can adopt Russia orphans is of no national security interest to the US whatsoever.

[Captain Obvious]

Actually, it is a retaliatory move to a country that doesn't understand it has no right to tell everyone in the world what to do.

The others are getting tired of it.

We now know your opinion regardless of it's relevance to the issue of Russia's petty political move that removes a chance at a decent life for hundreds or thousands of Russian orphans.

[Carygrant]

We now know your opinion regardless of it's relevance to the issue of Russia's petty political move that removes a chance at a decent life for hundreds or thousands of Russian orphans.


Untrue .
The ban will only apply to the US and not to other countries .
Regardless , there is a crisis in Russia about the reduced fertility rate and declining population .There is a strong likelihood that increased attention and incentives will be now given to encourage significantly greater internal adoption .

[patrickt]

I have lived in Mexico for 15 years and seen totally dysfunctional people coming down here to obtain babies. Fortunately, the laws have changed significantly. The first I met was a woman in her sixties from NYC. She was on welfare and had never had a child so she was here to get one. I also met a couple in their seventies who had obtained a one-month old infant. When the husband was dealing with paperwork at Immigration I asked the wife--mother?--if they'd made arrangements for the baby in case they didn't make it. "What do you mean?" "Well, you'll be well into your nineties before he finishes college. You might die before then." She smiled and said, ''God won't let us die before we're done." "That probably explains why there are no orphans in the world." I think changing the laws was a very good move for Mexico.

[Captain Obvious]

Untrue .
The ban will only apply to the US and not to other countries .
Regardless , there is a crisis in Russia about the reduced fertility rate and declining population .There is a strong likelihood that increased attention and incentives will be now given to encourage significantly greater internal adoption .

Considering the standard of living in the US is something like 4 times greater than it is in Russia and the demand for Russian adoptions in the US is very high, you would be wrong once again.

No other country is going to provide the opportunity that these kids had taken away from them over a petty political move that will only negatively impact needy children.

Now begone, poltroon.

[Alif Qadr]

The US government seems to think that human rights violations by certain Russian leaders merits the law, we can agree or disagree with that.

However, whether America citizens can adopt Russia orphans is of no national security interest to the US whatsoever.

Politcally,
everything is of "national security interest" when those in Washington, D.C. and their controllers both inside and outside of the D.C. Circuit are concerned. Buying a bag of Russian candy will cause an international incident, if the U.S. Customs Agency does not approve it first. Am I that hard on government? Of course I am and so would others if they would keep their eyes open and pay close attention to what has been taking place in this country over the centuries in a general sense and over the last 9 to ten decades in a specific sense.

[Alif Qadr]

Considering the standard of living in the US is something like 4 times greater than it is in Russia and the demand for Russian adoptions in the US is very high, you would be wrong once again.

No other country is going to provide the opportunity that these kids had taken away from them over a petty political move that will only negatively impact needy children.

Now begone, poltroon.

Why would an so-called American citizen adopt children from other countries when they are plenty to adopt within the borders and jurisdiction of the United States?

[Alif Qadr]

Somethings to ponder


Actually, it is a retaliatory move to a country that doesn't understand it has no right to tell everyone in the world what to do.

The others are getting tired of it.
and this

I have lived in Mexico for 15 years and seen totally dysfunctional people coming down here to obtain babies. Fortunately, the laws have changed significantly. The first I met was a woman in her sixties from NYC. She was on welfare and had never had a child so she was here to get one. I also met a couple in their seventies who had obtained a one-month old infant. When the husband was dealing with paperwork at Immigration I asked the wife--mother?--if they'd made arrangements for the baby in case they didn't make it. "What do you mean?" "Well, you'll be well into your nineties before he finishes college. You might die before then." She smiled and said, ''God won't let us die before we're done." "That probably explains why there are no orphans in the world." I think changing the laws was a very good move for Mexico.

[Carygrant]

Considering the standard of living in the US is something like 4 times greater than it is in Russia and the demand for Russian adoptions in the US is very high, you would be wrong once again.
No other country is going to provide the opportunity that these kids had taken away from them over a petty political move that will only negatively impact needy children.
Now begone, poltroon.

You certainly have managed to combine ignorance and insensitivity completely within one short post .
To imagine that the US offers advantages over other nations because of its ------ what ? --- material advantages , is crass .
It says everything about your understanding of what makes a good ,loved and loving parent and friend .
You are a very shallow sort of person and it shows .
On points of detail , one of the contributing factors in this Topic was the inhumane treatment of some orphans taken to the US . Do your homework .
Demand from any defined group is interesting but irrelevant , per se --- their suitability as people to be good parents is the paramount factor .
These are Russian children and they don't need unsuitable people like you imagining that you are fit for the purpose for deciding their best futures .
When you haqve travelled the length and breadth of Russia and Ukraine as I have, you might be in a position to comment from experience and knowledge . I suggest that in the meanwhile your best contribution is silence .

[Peter1469]

Why would an so-called American citizen adopt children from other countries when they are plenty to adopt within the borders and jurisdiction of the United States?

Because of the red tape to adopt inside America....

[Awryly]

Probably sensible.

Why would anyone agree with the US policy that no child should be left behind without an AR-15?

[Awryly]

Considering the standard of living in the US is something like 4 times greater than it is in Russia and the demand for Russian adoptions in the US is very high, you would be wrong once again.

No other country is going to provide the opportunity that these kids had taken away from them over a petty political move that will only negatively impact needy children.

Now begone, poltroon.

Poltroon here.

Why would they be better placed receiving an American "education" in the standards Americans represent?

[Captain Obvious]

Poltroon here.

Why would they be better placed receiving an American "education" in the standards Americans represent?

So they don't wind up being moron hecklers on other countries political forums.

[Carygrant]

This was reported over two years ago .Note the last line .
Incidentally Ivan was found with 80 different wounds when taken from his American adopted parents .


The Investigative Committee of Russia's Prosecutor General Office has announced plans to examine the legality of the adoption of Nathaniel Craver (Ivan Skorobogatov) and his sister by an American family.
As RIA Novosti news agency reports, the procedures leading to adoption are going to be verified, specifically whether an accredited adoption agency was involved in the case or the adoption was performed independently.
It was also noted that American officials have not reported the incident to their Russian counterparts within the legally required period. Any information concerning tragic events involving adopted children, family change or improper performance of parental authority in respect to adopted children must be handed over to the Russian side within five days time.
The US State Department is working closely with the Pennsylvania officials investigating the case and has already arranged a meeting with Russian diplomats to discuss the issue more closely.
Ivan, who was 7 years old, became the 15th Russian child since 1996 to die in the US after being adopted.

[Captain Obvious]

Speaking of morons...

[Awryly]

So they don't wind up being moron hecklers on other countries political forums.

This is an American forum? Or is that just your wee idea about racial purity?

[Mister D]

This is an American forum? Or is that just your wee idea about racial purity?

:laugh: What does that even mean?

[Carygrant]

So they don't wind up being moron hecklers on other countries political forums.


No they end up dead , killed by American"parents' .See previous .
Shall I tell you about the ranches across America that cater for russian kids slung away by their American so called parents .
You just have no idea what you are talking about .
Shall I tell you about the woman I nearly married in '04 who for a time worked placing Siberian orphans on the streets into American homes . The money that changed hands was repulsive .Orphan trafficking .

[Mister D]

That Russia's leadership would use orphans as a political weapon is to be expected but the fact that Awryly and bitch tits would defend this nonsense is an embarrassment to them both. A new low, in fact.

[Mister D]

This was reported over two years ago .Note the last line .
Incidentally Ivan was found with 80 different wounds when taken from his American adopted parents .


The Investigative Committee of Russia's Prosecutor General Office has announced plans to examine the legality of the adoption of Nathaniel Craver (Ivan Skorobogatov) and his sister by an American family.
As RIA Novosti news agency reports, the procedures leading to adoption are going to be verified, specifically whether an accredited adoption agency was involved in the case or the adoption was performed independently.
It was also noted that American officials have not reported the incident to their Russian counterparts within the legally required period. Any information concerning tragic events involving adopted children, family change or improper performance of parental authority in respect to adopted children must be handed over to the Russian side within five days time.
The US State Department is working closely with the Pennsylvania officials investigating the case and has already arranged a meeting with Russian diplomats to discuss the issue more closely.
Ivan, who was 7 years old, became the 15th Russian child since 1996 to die in the US after being adopted.

15th out of what? 60,000?

[Awryly]

That Russia's leadership would use orphans as a political weapon is to be expected but the fact that Awryly and bitch tits would defend this nonsense is an embarrassment to them both. A new low, in fact.

My take is that the Russians are simply trying to protect Russian kids from being shot in American schools.

Considering your record, how do you have a problem with that?

[Mister D]

My take is that the Russians are simply trying to protect Russian kids from being shot in American schools.

Considering your record, how do you have a problem with that?

Your take is idiotic. A (very) tiny fraction of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russian orphanages. I usually just laugh at you and your superficial anti-Americanism but this was a genuinely repulsive performance. Congrats.

[Awryly]

Your take is idiotic. A (very) tiny fraction of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russian orphanages. I usually just laugh at you and your superficial anti-Americanism but this was a genuinely repulsive performance. Congrats.

So no Russians kids were killed at Sandy Hook?

Can you prove that?

And even if they were not shot this time, how do you know they will not be shot next time?

[Carygrant]

15th out of what? 60,000?


Moronic musing again .
So . Those four clowns killed in Benghazi --- completely irrelevant . Four out of 350 million and it significantly reduced embassy overheads . I suppose you also live in Texas.

[zelmo1234]

Moronic musing again .
So . Those four clowns killed in Benghazi --- completely irrelevant . Four out of 350 million and it significantly reduced embassy overheads . I suppose you also live in Texas.

The problem is Carry that thtey did not have to die. people here watched in real time as they were under attack for over 7 hours. there were crys for help, that for some reason went ignored. Now this could be as simple as total incompitence. As the Obama Administration has proven they are more that capable of.

But the death of our Special forces in this country is just about as close to someone attacking Your Royal Family. And lets face it, in this day and age, there are not a lot of people in this world as irrelivant as the Royal Family. other than costing your country billions of dollars, and showing up for hundreds of photo opps per year, they really do not do much of anything

[Carygrant]

The problem is Carry that thtey did not have to die. people here watched in real time as they were under attack for over 7 hours. there were crys for help, that for some reason went ignored. Now this could be as simple as total incompitence. As the Obama Administration has proven they are more that capable of.

But the death of our Special forces in this country is just about as close to someone attacking Your Royal Family. And lets face it, in this day and age, there are not a lot of people in this world as irrelivant as the Royal Family. other than costing your country billions of dollars, and showing up for hundreds of photo opps per year, they really do not do much of anything

I am as aware of the incident circumstances as you are .
Equally , I am sure there were numerous mistakes and errors of judgement -- Peter , for one , could surely tell you how war is really conducted for most of the time .As I also know from direct experience .
But there has been an official finding and perhaps it was a good and right decision to sacrifice a handful of Americans to avoid a far worse developing situation if "defensive" measures had been adopted . Like the insane idea of calling in aircraft , for example .
Obama for America makes qualified risk assessments every time a drone is set on a Hunt and Kill mission and knows the stats parameters for civilian casualties etc . That is real war .
And if in the Benghazi scenario the risk assessment favoured the course they took , so be it . But how do you then convey that to a totally non understanding and clueless electorate ?
The most the Admin are guilty over is poor damage limitation on an information basis . Always an easy criticism with hindsight . imo

[zelmo1234]

I am as aware of the incident circumstances as you are .
Equally , I am sure there were numerous mistakes and errors of judgement -- Peter , for one , could surely tell you how war is really conducted for most of the time .As I also know from direct experience .
But there has been an official finding and perhaps it was a good and right decision to sacrifice a handful of Americans to avoid a far worse developing situation if "defensive" measures had been adopted . Like the insane idea of calling in aircraft , for example .
Obama for America makes qualified risk assessments every time a drone is set on a Hunt and Kill mission and knows the stats parameters for civilian casualties etc . That is real war .
And if in the Benghazi scenario the risk assessment favoured the course they took , so be it . But how do you then convey that to a totally non understanding and clueless electorate ?
The most the Admin are guilty over is poor damage limitation on an information basis . Always an easy criticism with hindsight . imo

I have a little deeper understanding of situations like this, from my former company as a private security contractor, with time in Iraq and Afganistan. There are not only errors on the day of these attacks but for weeks leading upto these attacks. The idea of getting to the bottom of something is not to prosicute and remove afficials, though somethimes this is the case, but to seek what really happened and adjust the way that you deal with things in the future.

The truth is we had military personel ready willing and able to go to the situation, they were told by the administration to stand down. For reasons that we still do not know. (these may be very valid reasons) But we also know that the obama administration did in fact promote a lie to cover the situation for political reasons. These while not impeachable is something that the people ahve a right to know, and of course gives the families of the fallen legal grounds to support the children left behind.

The main reason that I and others decided to get out of the high risk security business, is with President obama in charge, you may find yourself in jail for doing what he ordered your company to do. He does not make great decissions when it comes to opperations and american lives in the field, and You will fine very very few in our military that trust him.

The Truth is all that is required, and the american people have at least what appears to be a cover up, this was expanded this week when the officials that were thought to have lost their jobs over this situation are now found to be still employed and working in the same departments.

This Situation comes on the heals of the Fast and Furious program that the President told the American people he knew nothing about, and then Used executive privilage to make all information clasified. This would not be possible if he was not involved, so we know that he has lied to the american people on this issue, we just do not know what lie he told.

This is the reason that they want the people that were sitting in the room watching as the terrorists murdered our ambasitor, and the Navy Seals to tell at least congress why they made these decissions.

And that is fair!

[Mister D]

Moronic musing again .
So . Those four clowns killed in Benghazi --- completely irrelevant . Four out of 350 million and it significantly reduced embassy overheads . I suppose you also live in Texas.

:laugh: Awful analogy, bitch tits. When a mob storms the Russian embassy here you may have a point.

WTF was he thinking?

For the record, a whopping .00025% of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russia. There is no issue here. It's a blatant political move and one that uses Russian orphans as pawns. That your superficial anti-Americanism compels you to make a fool of yourself is, however, no surprise.

[Carygrant]

:laugh: Awful analogy, bitch tits. When a mob storms the Russian embassy here you may have a point.

WTF was he thinking?
For the record, a whopping .00025% of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russia. There is no issue here. It's a blatant political move and one that uses Russian orphans as pawns. That your superficial anti-Americanism compels you to make a fool of yourself is, however, no surprise.


Why not tell the people why there are around 100 000 American orphans in America at any one time who are "hidden away within the system " ?
Who are these people who only adopt around 1500 Russian orphans a year but aren't apparently interested in an American pool of 100, 000 orphans?
Are they Americans that have been found unfit and unsuitable for internal adoption ?
Nut cases who want a child but cannot , for reasons probably out of their control ?

As usual you bumble words without knowing the underlying subjects in detail .
And why no reference to the Reserves in America where Russian orphans have been dumped by their loving American parents or taken away from them because of harm?
America breeds fat and violent kids with a culture lacking controls and of declining educational attainment status . Why should Americans think they should be able to buy Russian kids for their pleasure and not for the paramount importance of the kids .
Seems like Putin is highlighting American hypocricy and the use of a current system that lacks the controls that orphans deserve .

[Mister D]

Why not tell the people why there are around 100 000 American orphans in America at any one time who are "hidden away within the system " ? Who are these people who only adopt around 1500 Russian orphans a year but aren't apparently interested in an American pool of 100, 000 orphans?
Are they Americans that have been found unfit and unsuitable for internal adoption ?
Nut cases who want a child but cannot , for reasons probably out of their control ?




Why don't you tell us? How about you back your claims? We'll wait.

For the record, a whopping .00025% of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russia. There is no issue here. It's a blatant political move and one that uses Russian orphans as pawns. That your superficial anti-Americanism compels you to make a fool of yourself is, however, no surprise.

[Carygrant]

Why don't you tell us? How about you back your claims? We'll wait.

For the record, a whopping .00025% of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russia. There is no issue here. It's a blatant political move and one that uses Russian orphans as pawns. That your superficial anti-Americanism compels you to make a fool of yourself is, however, no surprise.

All this information is the public domain .
It just needs a modicum of effort to find it .
As for your repeated 0.00025 % harm figure .
It is garbage . If you look at adoptions from around the mid nineties , they are nowhere near to that total . And that is the time slot over which 15 Russian kids have been killed .
Not harmed , as you say . But killed . Do the Maths . Check it out .
That garbage stat tells you nothing about those that were harmed but not killed . It tells you nothing about those who never became stats because reports were not believed , suppressed or simply ignored .
It looks as though the information about the Orphan Ranches may have been conveniently lost by the Internet in the last 48 hours . But that's hardly surprising because it took nearly a decade before the first one was ever publicly admitted to .
Tread carefully . The cold war is in full swing again due to the Magnitsky Bill and NATO missile siting plans . Little if anything should be treated at face value . If Putin is very seriously ill , as many suspect , this present atmosphere will run quite awhile .

[Mister D]

All this information is the public domain .
It just needs a modicum of effort to find it .
As for your repeated 0.00025 % harm figure .
It is garbage . If you look at adoptions from around the mid nineties , they are nowhere near to that total . And that is the time slot over which 15 Russian kids have been killed .
Not harmed , as you say . But killed . Do the Maths . Check it out .
That garbage stat tells you nothing about those that were harmed but not killed . It tells you nothing about those who never became stats because reports were not believed , suppressed or simply ignored .
It looks as though the information about the Orphan Ranches may have been conveniently lost by the Internet in the last 48 hours . But that's hardly surprising because it took nearly a decade before the first one was ever publicly admitted to .
Tread carefully . The cold war is in full swing again due to the Magnitsky Bill and NATO missile siting plans . Little if anything should be treated at face value . If Putin is very seriously ill , as many suspect , this present atmosphere will run quite awhile .


You mean you can't back those claims? Who saw that coming? :laugh: We may then dismiss them, bitch tits.

---

American adoptions of Russian children have always been controversial. Over 60,000 Russian children have been adopted by American families since 1992. The number of adoptions each year climbed to over 5,000 in 2004, then gradually fell to just under 1,000 last year.

Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/stimulus/2012/dec/30/russian-adoption-ban-putin-ass/#ixzz2GeVWxPOP
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bFUy1y59er4B9Macwqm_6l&u=wtcommunities)

For the record, a whopping .00025% of adopted Russian children come to harm in the US and are far better off here than in Russia. There is no issue here. It's a blatant political move and one that uses Russian orphans as pawns. That your superficial anti-Americanism compels you to make a fool of yourself is, however, no surprise.

[patrickt]

I find those to continue to try to have discussions with Awryly or Carygunt as pitiful as people who voted a second time for President Obama.

[Adelaide]

Probably sensible.

Why would anyone agree with the US policy that no child should be left behind without an AR-15?

I don't see any reason to go "there". There are abusive would-be parents everywhere, regardless of the region or country but the United States, for all it's faults, is one of the best countries in the world for most measures.

And no, this has nothing to do with the fact they buy Canadian oil as you've previously suggested in other posts which have been responses to mine. I can disagree with the United States but still acknowledge their successes. It's called being rational.

[Awryly]

I don't see any reason to go "there". There are abusive would-be parents everywhere, regardless of the region or country but the United States, for all it's faults, is one of the best countries in the world for most measures.

And no, this has nothing to do with the fact they buy Canadian oil as you've previously suggested in other posts which have been responses to mine. I can disagree with the United States but still acknowledge their successes. It's called being rational.


I am not talking about abusive parents. Of whom I am sure there are many in the US.

I was alluding to the extra risk - not known in Russia from all accounts - of people shooting up schools.

[Adelaide]

I am not talking about abusive parents. Of whom I am sure there are many in the US.

I was alluding to the extra risk - not known in Russia from all accounts - of people shooting up schools.

Yeah - still not rational. School shootings are not the norm even if they happen at a hire frequency in the United States. Your odds of getting hit by a car, dying of cancer, killing yourself, and so on, are much greater. All of those things, by the way, happen at a higher frequency in Russia.

[Awryly]

Yeah - still not rational. School shootings are not the norm even if they happen at a hire frequency in the United States. Your odds of getting hit by a car, dying of cancer, killing yourself, and so on, are much greater. All of those things, by the way, happen at a higher frequency in Russia.

Mmm. Of course you have statistics to prove that. Which I will be delighted to receive.

When did a Russian last shoot 20 kids at a school?

This century if that's OK with you.

[Adelaide]

Mmm. Of course you have statistics to prove that. Which I will be delighted to receive.

When did a Russian last shoot 20 kids at a school?

You're joking, right?

Beslan School Hostage Crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis)

Nothing close to that has happened in the US.

[Adelaide]

Mmm. Of course you have statistics to prove that. Which I will be delighted to receive.

When did a Russian last shoot 20 kids at a school?

This century if that's OK with you.

Nice edit - 2004 was in this century.

[Awryly]

Ah so. The Chechnyans were a feisty lot.

In the last 6 weeks?

[Adelaide]

Ah so. The Chechnyans were a feisty lot.

In the last 6 weeks?

Admit it - I bested you on this. Russia is not superior to the US when it comes to school violence or any of the other indicators I provided in one of my previous posts.

[Awryly]

Admit it - I bested you on this. Russia is not superior to the US when it comes to school violence or any of the other indicators I provided in one of my previous posts.

Russia had a riotous ethnic minority group. That did a one-off. As an act of war.

You guys shoot one another in theatres, schools and wherever else as a matter of routine.

For fun.

[Adelaide]

Russia had a riotous ethnic minority group. That did a one-off. As an act of war.

You guys shoot one another in theatres, schools and wherever else as a matter of routine.

For fun.

"You guys"? I'm not American, and that's almost as bad as "you people". Just admit you were wrong - it's a sign of character; I do it all the time.

Oh, and here are your stats:

Cancer survival rates vary by country (http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country)
Cancer Survivor Rates Improving Across Europe, but still Lagging Behind the United States (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/561737)

According to the World Health Organization, the suicide rate in Russia rates 11th highest in the world and the US is ranked 34th.

According to the World Health Organization, the traffic-related deaths in Russia are 18.5 per 100,000 and 12.3 per 100,000 in the US.

[Awryly]

"You guys"? I'm not American, and that's almost as bad as "you people". Just admit you were wrong - it's a sign of character; I do it all the time.

Oh, and here are your stats:

Cancer survival rates vary by country (http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-by-country)
Cancer Survivor Rates Improving Across Europe, but still Lagging Behind the United States (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/561737)

According to the World Health Organization, the suicide rate in Russia rates 11th highest in the world and the US is ranked 34th.

According to the World Health Organization, the traffic-related deaths in Russia are 18.5 per 100,000 and 12.3 per 100,000 in the US.

My stats? I see no stats I could describe as mine.

But you might like to know we live, on average, two years longer than Americans.

So do Canadians. For some reason.

[Adelaide]

My stats? I see no stats I could describe as mine.

But you might like to know we live, on average, two years longer than Americans.

So do Canadians.

How does that make Americans less appropriate to adopt children?

[Awryly]

So New Zealand has poutine as one possible advance in our civilisation.

Any others?

[Awryly]

How does that make Americans less appropriate to adopt children?

An extraordinary conclusion to be sure. But, will the adoptees not die earlier?

Even if they manage to survive being shot at school?

[Adelaide]

So New Zealand has poutine as one possible advance in our civilisation.

Any others?

(wrong thread)

[Awryly]

(wrong thread)

Quite possibly.

[zelmo1234]

I am not talking about abusive parents. Of whom I am sure there are many in the US.

I was alluding to the extra risk - not known in Russia from all accounts - of people shooting up schools.

looks like you have decide that it is Ulgy and that if your government does not track it it does not exist. So your peopel have taken to reporting it themselves?

http://familyintegrity.org.nz/category/some-child-abuse-cases-in-nz-since-section-59-amended/

Great Crop of parents you have there?

[zelmo1234]

My stats? I see no stats I could describe as mine.

But you might like to know we live, on average, two years longer than Americans.

So do Canadians. For some reason.

911 and the deaths of some of our youth in the wars in Iraw and afganistan. Inner city kids shooting themspeve up in drug wars?

Might be a reason?

[Awryly]

looks like you have decide that it is Ulgy and that if your government does not track it it does not exist. So your peopel have taken to reporting it themselves?

http://familyintegrity.org.nz/category/some-child-abuse-cases-in-nz-since-section-59-amended/

Great Crop of parents you have there?


On the contrary, we report every slaughter of innocent schoolkids in this country.

[Carygrant]

I find those to continue to try to have discussions with Awryly or Carygunt as pitiful as people who voted a second time for President Obama.


I can understand why you prefer to chat with losers .

[Peter1469]

Russia had a riotous ethnic minority group. That did a one-off. As an act of war.

You guys shoot one another in theatres, schools and wherever else as a matter of routine.

For fun.

NZ does as well- Orcs.

[zelmo1234]

On the contrary, we report every slaughter of innocent schoolkids in this country.

Apparently! but it has to be slaughter, just everyday beatings and molestation or a child death now and then must be OK

They seem to be pushing to discover thos statistics?

[zelmo1234]

I can understand why you prefer to chat with losers .

Not really the place in this thread, but when I was looking at Mrs Thatchers quotes this morning I had forgoten just what a special person she was.

I knew she was improtant to not only your country but her relationship with Reagan was special and she was important and respected in our country as well.

[Awryly]

NZ does as well- Orcs.

We don't shoot them. We tame them and get them to act in movies that entertain you.

[Peter1469]

We don't shoot them. We tame them and get them to act in movies that entertain you.

God bless you!

[Carygrant]

Not really the place in this thread, but when I was looking at Mrs Thatchers quotes this morning I had forgoten just what a special person she was.

I knew she was improtant to not only your country but her relationship with Reagan was special and she was important and respected in our country as well.


Saint Margaret is welcome at all times .
She was actually a very simple lass ( in the OK way) and it was her mentors who came up with the right philosophy at the right time and which caught the mood of the time . Keith Josephs ( Sir) was one of those.
She was far from perfect , but History will remind us that she saved Team GB from going right down the plug hole when we were standing on the rim with apparently nowhere to go .
And yes Ronnie and she did so much to help end the Cold War era , though with Gorbachev in charge they had the right person to deal with . Tragically the Russians en bloc now treat him as a near traitor having been brainwashed into that view with the disastrous nineties a more than convenient hook on which to hang him and his internal reputation .

[Carygrant]

Putting the whole matter into its global context :-



ASIA has an estimated 61.5 million orphans.5

http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47861-s.jpg (http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47861-xl.jpg)In CHINA there are more than 40,000 orphanages with an estimated 3 million orphans. Two in five babies entering the system die. In response to concern of over-population in China, the government enforced a "one child" policy. Compounding the problem is the cultural response to boys and girls. The birth of a boy is celebrated, while the birth of a girl is not acknowledged.



http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47862-s.jpg (http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47862-xl.jpg)INDIA has more than 18 million children living on the streets. Orphanages are filled with the abandoned.





EASTERN EUROPEAN orphan statistics:
http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47863-s.jpg (http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47863-xl.jpg)In RUSSIA one in three orphanage "graduates" are homeless. One in five commits a crime. One in ten commits suicide. In 1993, of the 15,000 orphans who "graduated" from Russian orphanages, 1,500 committed suicide that year.
In UKRAINE and RUSSIA, 60% of the girls are lured into prostitution, and 70% of the boys become hardened criminals.3
According to a government census, nearly 2,500 ROMANIAN children are living on the streets and in sewers. Over 100,000 are wards in state orphanages. (This was before Romania closed adoption. The numbers must be astronomical now since Romania closed its doors to foreign adoption.)

AFRICA has an estimated 39 million orphans.5
http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47864-s.jpg (http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47864-custom.jpg)Every 15 seconds another child becomes an AIDS orphans in Africa.2
"The spine-chilling statistics on African orphans estimate that there are 170,000 orphaned children in Mauritania, 710,000 in Mali, 800,000 in Niger, 600,000 in Chad, 1.7 million in Sudan, 280,000 in Eritrea, 48,000 in Djibouti, 4.8 million in Ethiopia, 630,000 in Somalia, 560,000 in Senegal, 710,000 in Burkina Faso, 370,000 in Benin, 64,000 in The Gambia, 100,000 in Guinea-Bissau and 370,000 in Guinea.

"Nigeria has 8.6 million orphans, Ivory Coast 1.4 million, Liberia 250,000, Sierra Leone and the Central African Republic 340,000 each, Ghana and Cameroon one million each, Equatorial Guinea 29,000, Gabon 65,000, the Republic of the Congo 270,000, the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) 4.2 million, Rwanda 820,000 and Burundi 600,000.

"Uganda and Kenya are home to 2.3 million orphans each, Tanzania to 2.4 million, Angola and Zambia 1.2 million each, the Comoros 33,000, Malawi 950,000, Namibia 140,000, Botwsana 150,000, Zimbabwe 1.4 million, Mozambique 1.5 million, Madagascar 900,000, Lesotho 150,000, and Swaziland and South Africa 2.5 million each."4
LATIN AMERICA has an estimated 8 million orphans.5
http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47865-s.jpg (http://www.orphanministries.com/files/images/47865-xl.jpg)





US FOSTER CARE has an estimated 118,000 children available for adoption.
There are approximately 500,000 children in the foster care system today. Of those, 118,000 are currently available for adoption.

[Carygrant]

AND WHAT ABOUT THE US ?
I came across this . Pity it's 2004 but I doubt matters will have improved .
The data is for America . Why the hell are Americans adopting anyone from abroad?

In 2004, 70 percent of the 73.2 million children under age 18 lived with two parents, 26 percent lived with one parent, and the remaining 4 percent lived with no parent. For that 4%, that EQUALS 2.9 MILLION homeless children.

[Peter1469]

AND WHAT ABOUT THE US ?
I came across this . Pity it's 2004 but I doubt matters will have improved .
The data is for America . Why the hell are Americans adopting anyone from abroad?

In 2004, 70 percent of the 73.2 million children under age 18 lived with two parents, 26 percent lived with one parent, and the remaining 4 percent lived with no parent. For that 4%, that EQUALS 2.9 MILLION homeless children.

America has harsh adoption laws.

In my close circle of friends, it seems like people want kids like they want pets. It is strange.

[zelmo1234]

AND WHAT ABOUT THE US ?
I came across this . Pity it's 2004 but I doubt matters will have improved .
The data is for America . Why the hell are Americans adopting anyone from abroad?

In 2004, 70 percent of the 73.2 million children under age 18 lived with two parents, 26 percent lived with one parent, and the remaining 4 percent lived with no parent. For that 4%, that EQUALS 2.9 MILLION homeless children.

Live with neither parent? is not homless. for example my niece lives with me, because her mother and father are serving in the military? she is not homless.

Many live with Grand parents and relitives, because the parents are unfit or in prison, or in the military.

remember you can twist statistics to mean anything.

[Carygrant]

Live with neither parent? is not homless. for example my niece lives with me, because her mother and father are serving in the military? she is not homless.

Many live with Grand parents and relitives, because the parents are unfit or in prison, or in the military.

remember you can twist statistics to mean anything.

I quite agree . But that literally was the whole of the report that I found . It possibly gives a general steer and perspective .
Viz ,why do Americans adopt outside of their own pool of orphans -- it costs them a great deal of dosh ?
And what percent adopt in this way because they do not meet stricter internal requirements? Are they effectively dealing by the back door ?

[Mister D]

I quite agree . But that literally was the whole of the report that I found . It possibly gives a general steer and perspective .
Viz ,why do Americans adopt outside of their own pool of orphans -- it costs them a great deal of dosh ?
And what percent adopt in this way because they do not meet stricter internal requirements? Are they effectively dealing by the back door ?

Why don't you tell us, Cary? Isn't it about time you defended your accusations?