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stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 10:20 AM
New Seattle Gun Law Leaves Homeowners Unprepared For A Break-In
Molly Prince

Seattle passed a law Monday requiring gun owners to store firearms unloaded and in a secured container.
CB119266 (http://seattle.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3518161&GUID=A85091A7-F9A5-451B-9ACA-D74E8A55272B) was passed unanimously by the Seattle City Council and makes it a civil infraction to keep firearms unlocked or loaded while not under control of the owner, imposing a fine of up to $500.
Violating the ordinance can result in even higher penalties, up to $1,000, if the firearm is accessible to a minor or an “at-risk” person. It can incur penalties of up to $10,000 if a minor, “at-risk” person or prohibited possessor obtains the firearm and uses it to harm oneself or another
“This is the kind of action we need to save lives,” Democratic Mayor Jenny Durkan said in a statement (http://durkan.seattle.gov/2018/07/mayor-durkan-celebrates-city-councils-passage-of-her-legislation-to-reduce-gun-violence/). “While we can’t prevent every gun death or injury, we can take steps to help prevent future tragedies.”
“Seattle is unafraid to be a leader and take legislative action on measures to reduce and prevent gun violence,” Durkan continued.
Gun rights advocates have long opposed mandatory storage requirements, arguing that circumstances between gun owners vary widely — a gun owner in a rural area has different needs than that of a gun owner with children in a city.
A study (http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Lott-Whitley-Safe-Storage-Laws.pdf) on safe-storage gun laws found that such requirements actually increased instances of property crime and violent crime, but had no significant impact on juvenile suicides or accidental gun deaths.
Second Amendment organizations such as the Gun Owners of America (https://www.gunowners.org/statealert52518.htm) and the National Rifle Association (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180425/delaware-mandatory-gun-storage-legislation-to-be-heard-in-committee-today) argue that safe-storage laws render a firearm useless in a self-defense emergency, such as a break-in.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/11/seattle-gun-law-homeowners/

This is no different than establishing gun free zones (In an Individual's home!!!!) which never work.
So nice of him to make his citizens a target. And those idiots keep putting these dangerous people in office.
Note: They know it wont reduce the number of suicides. So guess what's next? Banning all guns.
I wonder now, the status of the citizen's 4th A and 5th A. I think the private sector has to register their guns, there goes the 5th...and since they are registered and have surrendered their 5th A, does that mean all registered gun owners are subject to warrantless searches as well? (4th A)

DLLS
07-11-2018, 10:38 AM
My father never kept any of his firearms locked up. He just told my brother and I that if we ever touched them without his permission there would be hell to pay. We took him at his word.

Adelaide
07-11-2018, 10:44 AM
My father never kept any of his firearms locked up. He just told my brother and I that if we ever touched them without his permission there would be hell to pay. We took him at his word.

A mentally ill or developmentally disabled child may not heed warnings.

That said, this law is somewhat similar to an aspect of Canadian law. There are not many break-ins that occur when people are home and not many that turn violent when they are. I am not sure what Seattle's crime rate is like, but I don't think this would pass unless resident support was high enough - no one wants to hurt their re-election chances. Hard to feel indignant when it's probably something that has local support.

Cletus
07-11-2018, 10:53 AM
It is a bad law. Those who voted for it should be tarred and feathered and sent to Canada.

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 10:54 AM
This is unenforceable.

nathanbforrest45
07-11-2018, 10:56 AM
A mentally ill or developmentally disabled child may not heed warnings.

That said, this law is somewhat similar to an aspect of Canadian law. There are not many break-ins that occur when people are home and not many that turn violent when they are. I am not sure what Seattle's crime rate is like, but I don't think this would pass unless resident support was high enough - no one wants to hurt their re-election chances. Hard to feel indignant when it's probably something that has local support.

and your average scofflaw would not pay much attention to the law either.

Captdon
07-11-2018, 11:00 AM
A mentally ill or developmentally disabled child may not heed warnings.

That said, this law is somewhat similar to an aspect of Canadian law. There are not many break-ins that occur when people are home and not many that turn violent when they are. I am not sure what Seattle's crime rate is like, but I don't think this would pass unless resident support was high enough - no one wants to hurt their re-election chances. Hard to feel indignant when it's probably something that has local support.

It wouldn't pass Constitutional scrutiny. An unloaded gun is just a stick.

Popularity isn't a Constitutional right.

Helena
07-11-2018, 11:00 AM
How are they going to know? Who's going to be checking? Ridiculous. Pass more laws, go ahead. Smart people will ignore the ones that are detrimental to their own safety.

DLLS
07-11-2018, 11:08 AM
I once saw a comedian, forget which one, on television who had the following routine. Going from memory so it might not be entirely accurate.

Was stopped by a police officer the other day. He noticed my pistol and asked if it was loaded. I replied without bullets all it does is go clickety, clickety, clickety.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 11:29 AM
This is unenforceable.

It depends on HOW they enforce it.............

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 11:35 AM
How are they going to know? Who's going to be checking? Ridiculous. Pass more laws, go ahead. Smart people will ignore the ones that are detrimental to their own safety.

First step is to register. They know who and where. Then it'll be compulsory to allow officers into the house to spot check. 4th and 5th Amendments, gone........poof.

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 11:35 AM
It depends on HOW they enforce it.............

How does the city government enforce this? Enter my home against my will to ensure I'm in compliance?

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 11:36 AM
First step is to register. They know who and where. Then it'll be compulsory to allow officers into the house to spot check. 4th and 5th Amendments, gone........poof.

That will never hapoen. Not even in the People's Republic of Seattle.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 11:37 AM
How does the city government enforce this? Enter my home against my will to ensure I'm in compliance?
see #11
the individual would be required to allow officers in, or surrender their weapons at the local constabulary. Now there's freedom of choice.....
Hell, if you've registered your firearm with the city, you've already surrendered your 5th A

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 11:39 AM
see #11

Won't happen.

This is just another example of liberals creating another unenforceable or symbolic law intended to make them feel good about themselves.

nathanbforrest45
07-11-2018, 11:46 AM
Seattle is well on its way to just two classes of people. Those on government assistance and those in the top 10% financially

Cletus
07-11-2018, 11:47 AM
It is a simple fact that the more safe you render the gun in storage, the less ready it is to be used to defend yourself or your family.

The people of Seattle should oust all the council members who voted for such a terrible law.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 12:00 PM
Won't happen.

This is just another example of liberals creating another unenforceable or symbolic law intended to make them feel good about themselves.

Once it's on the books, it can be enforced anyway they want, or interpret it anyway they want.

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 12:09 PM
Once it's on the books, it can be enforced anyway they want, or interpret it anyway they want.


It can not be enforced in any way they want. Seattle is still in America.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 12:13 PM
It can not be enforced in any way they want. Seattle is still in America.

so the purpose of a firearm is to provide self-defense. Sounds like Seattle isn't part of the USA.
That's why you don't register them when they demand it.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 12:15 PM
It can not be enforced in any way they want. Seattle is still in America.

How many cities and states comply with the Right to Bear arms? How many have trampled right over those Rights? They can do a lot of damage until the law is overturned.....................

DLLS
07-11-2018, 12:24 PM
It depends on HOW they enforce it.............

Storm Troopers dressed up in their Darth Vader outfits entering homes without warrants would be one way to enforce it.

DLLS
07-11-2018, 12:25 PM
First step is to register. They know who and where. Then it'll be compulsory to allow officers into the house to spot check. 4th and 5th Amendments, gone........poof.

Instruct teachers to ask students if there are any guns in their home.

ODB
07-11-2018, 12:31 PM
My father never kept any of his firearms locked up. He just told my brother and I that if we ever touched them without his permission there would be hell to pay. We took him at his word.

We had that also, but with the addition of how to use them, they are not toys, they are not talking points with our friends, and the expectation of putting them to use in the event of someone entering our home who shouldn't have.

ODB
07-11-2018, 12:31 PM
Instruct teachers to ask students if there are any guns in their home.

Tried, and denied.

ODB
07-11-2018, 12:38 PM
A mentally ill or developmentally disabled child may not heed warnings.

That said, this law is somewhat similar to an aspect of Canadian law. There are not many break-ins that occur when people are home and not many that turn violent when they are. I am not sure what Seattle's crime rate is like, but I don't think this would pass unless resident support was high enough - no one wants to hurt their re-election chances. Hard to feel indignant when it's probably something that has local support.

Parents with mentally disturbed children should have the capacity to govern how best to responsibly raise those children.

The idea that break-ins are uncommon, but the ones that happen are non-violent is a very naive approach to keeping yourself safe.

Indignance is justified when sheeple think their opinions hold the same value as those who understand reality and what it actually requires to be able to protect yourself and your family.

All these laws do is coddle and enable those with bad intent.

DLLS
07-11-2018, 12:43 PM
Tried, and denied.

Did your doctor ever ask if you had firearms in your home?

I went for an eye exam once and that was a question on one of the forms I filled out, well partially filled out I left that question blank.

ODB
07-11-2018, 12:46 PM
Did your doctor ever ask if you had firearms in your home?

I went for an eye exam once and that was a question on one of the forms I filled out, well partially filled out I left that question blank.

Yes! As an adult, I let them know that's hardly any of their business. And as a kid, teachers would sneakily try and draw this info out of kids as well.

Proper parenting led to us understanding the severity and seriousness (ie weight of responsibility) of owning guns and properly using them.

Helena
07-11-2018, 12:46 PM
Did your doctor ever ask if you had firearms in your home?

I went for an eye exam once and that was a question on one of the forms I filled out, well partially filled out I left that question blank.


Doctors tried that with my oldest kids years ago. It's insidious, because if the kid doesn't answer or the parent objects, the doctors mark it down as being a potential safety/health risk anyway.

They must have met with a lot of pushback, OR I've moved to a better area that doesn't put up with that nonsense, because I haven't encountered that with the doctors around here.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 12:59 PM
Did your doctor ever ask if you had firearms in your home?

I went for an eye exam once and that was a question on one of the forms I filled out, well partially filled out I left that question blank.

As part of Obama's plan, my family doc asked me the same question. I kin of looked him in the eye....he wrote down NO
He's an avid gun man himself

Helena
07-11-2018, 01:00 PM
As part of Obama's plan, my family doc asked me the same question. I kin of looked him in the eye....he wrote down NO
He's an avid gun man himself
Why the hell would he ask you in the first place, then?

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 01:09 PM
Storm Troopers dressed up in their Darth Vader outfits entering homes without warrants would be one way to enforce it.
Correct. That goes to support my comment that this law is an unenforceable symbolic gesture.

Lummy
07-11-2018, 01:39 PM
"Mental illness" is a very convenient term sometimes to use for purely political reasons. True historically, for certain.

Pennsylvania is presently considering a gun confiscation law to remove your guns and bar ever owning a gun based on your "mental wellness", as brought to attention of authorities by your neighbors or your exe, after which the burden of proof is apparently on you.

Namely PA HB 2227, which has passed committee. No news about it for several days that I can find.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180620/pennsylvania-gun-control-legislation-to-be-considered-on-the-house-floor :


House Bill 2227 creates so-called “extreme risk protection orders” whereby a hearing would be held, firearms would be seized and constitutional rights suspended with little to no due process. Under House Bill 2227, a law-abiding gun owner could lose their right to own or possess a firearm and then have the burden placed on them to prove the false nature of the petition in order to have their firearms returned. This legislation does nothing to improve public safety, and allows for an extremely broadly definition of who can petition to remove someone's Second Amendment rights.

In my opinion, this is very concerning stuff, but it is but one of a barrage of bills PA democrats have in the mill for gun control.

Lummy
07-11-2018, 01:44 PM
PA is a gun-friendly state, so what these democrats are doing is pushing buttons to see what it yields them.

DLLS
07-11-2018, 01:58 PM
I have lived in a couple open carry (concealed with a permit) states. Only in one (Arizona) did I actually see some people walking around with sidearms in plain view. In one Arizona town I actually saw a firearms store with a drive up window for liquor sales for some reason, perhaps my rural upbringing, I did not find that even slightly problematic.

The Xl
07-11-2018, 02:06 PM
What can be done when government on any level goes off the rails and ignores the Constitution?

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 02:11 PM
What can be done when government on any level goes off the rails and ignores the Constitution?

Ignore the law. What are they going to do? What can they do? Are they going to kick in everyone's door to ensure compliance?


The police chief can alsways say that his officers will not enforce this law because it is an unconstitutional overreach of government. Law enforcement does not take an oath to be loyal to the city council. They take an oath to support and defend your constitutional rights.

ODB
07-11-2018, 02:12 PM
I have lived in a couple open carry (concealed with a permit) states. Only in one (Arizona) did I actually see some people walking around with sidearms in plain view. In one Arizona town I actually saw a firearms store with a drive up window for liquor sales for some reason, perhaps my rural upbringing, I did not find that even slightly problematic.
Open carry is so common here, it reminds me of when I was growing up. The majority of the people here want to make sure that continues. Many restaurants give discounts for open or concealed carry's. Conceal carry is legal here (for residents) w/out a permit.

I'm shocked at the people that are shocked at the sight.

Lummy
07-11-2018, 02:29 PM
Sounds like a nice place. :)

jimmyz
07-11-2018, 02:39 PM
I have a Mini Vault safe bedside for my carry gun due to children and their friends being in the home. I would not comply with this law had it been passed here. Luckily I'm in Arizona and never will be faced with this situation.

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 02:54 PM
I have a Mini Vault safe bedside for my carry gun due to children and their friends being in the home. I would not comply with this law had it been passed here. Luckily I'm in Arizona and never will be faced with this situation.
Never say never.

ODB
07-11-2018, 02:56 PM
Never say never.

The "I would not comply" preface took care of that!

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 03:02 PM
The "I would not comply" preface took care of that!
If you get complacent, the left will exploit that. You can't ever just assume they are defeated.

Lummy
07-11-2018, 03:41 PM
If you get complacent, the left will exploit that. You can't ever just assume they are defeated.
Yeah, and the other side wants more money, and it has occurred to me more than once that it's a big game of opposite sides playing the middle.

Lummy
07-11-2018, 03:42 PM
Just outlaw the Democratic party. Generally, it seems to be lawless and doesn't care, and it hates the Constitution.

stjames1_53
07-11-2018, 05:44 PM
Yeah, and the other side wants more money, and it has occurred to me more than once that it's a big game of opposite sides playing the middle.

hence my sig:
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 05:45 PM
Yeah, and the other side wants more money, and it has occurred to me more than once that it's a big game of opposite sides playing the middle.

What do you mean with the comment “the other side wants more money”?

DLLS
07-11-2018, 05:56 PM
Just outlaw the Democratic party. Generally, it seems to be lawless and doesn't care, and it hates the Constitution.

Never happen, the Supreme Court, as currently comprised, would find outlawing stupidity and mental illness to be unconstitutional. Perhaps if Mr. Trump gets to pick a few more nominees.

Cthulhu
07-11-2018, 05:56 PM
This is unenforceable.Most laws are, it merely adds insult too injury and creates a perverse incentive to be dishonest with the state.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Cthulhu
07-11-2018, 05:59 PM
Instruct teachers to ask students if there are any guns in their home.Another good reason to home school.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

DLLS
07-11-2018, 06:01 PM
Sent from my evil cell phone.

My cell phone was made by ZTE so it is probably more evil than yours. I know it spies on me for the Chinese government.

Tahuyaman
07-11-2018, 06:25 PM
Most laws are, it merely adds insult too injury and creates a perverse incentive to be dishonest with the state.

Sent from my evil cell phone.

Some laws are intended to make honest citizens criminals.

Lummy
07-11-2018, 07:37 PM
PA is a gun-friendly state, so what these democrats are doing is pushing buttons to see what it yields them.
It is a huge waste of time, and they know they put themselves in the negative column with most voters. Expect most of them to hit the curb next election.

donttread
07-13-2018, 06:51 AM
New Seattle Gun Law Leaves Homeowners Unprepared For A Break-In
Molly Prince

Seattle passed a law Monday requiring gun owners to store firearms unloaded and in a secured container.
CB119266 (http://seattle.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3518161&GUID=A85091A7-F9A5-451B-9ACA-D74E8A55272B) was passed unanimously by the Seattle City Council and makes it a civil infraction to keep firearms unlocked or loaded while not under control of the owner, imposing a fine of up to $500.
Violating the ordinance can result in even higher penalties, up to $1,000, if the firearm is accessible to a minor or an “at-risk” person. It can incur penalties of up to $10,000 if a minor, “at-risk” person or prohibited possessor obtains the firearm and uses it to harm oneself or another
“This is the kind of action we need to save lives,” Democratic Mayor Jenny Durkan said in a statement (http://durkan.seattle.gov/2018/07/mayor-durkan-celebrates-city-councils-passage-of-her-legislation-to-reduce-gun-violence/). “While we can’t prevent every gun death or injury, we can take steps to help prevent future tragedies.”
“Seattle is unafraid to be a leader and take legislative action on measures to reduce and prevent gun violence,” Durkan continued.
Gun rights advocates have long opposed mandatory storage requirements, arguing that circumstances between gun owners vary widely — a gun owner in a rural area has different needs than that of a gun owner with children in a city.
A study (http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Lott-Whitley-Safe-Storage-Laws.pdf) on safe-storage gun laws found that such requirements actually increased instances of property crime and violent crime, but had no significant impact on juvenile suicides or accidental gun deaths.
Second Amendment organizations such as the Gun Owners of America (https://www.gunowners.org/statealert52518.htm) and the National Rifle Association (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180425/delaware-mandatory-gun-storage-legislation-to-be-heard-in-committee-today) argue that safe-storage laws render a firearm useless in a self-defense emergency, such as a break-in.
http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/11/seattle-gun-law-homeowners/

This is no different than establishing gun free zones (In an Individual's home!!!!) which never work.
So nice of him to make his citizens a target. And those idiots keep putting these dangerous people in office.
Note: They know it wont reduce the number of suicides. So guess what's next? Banning all guns.
I wonder now, the status of the citizen's 4th A and 5th A. I think the private sector has to register their guns, there goes the 5th...and since they are registered and have surrendered their 5th A, does that mean all registered gun owners are subject to warrantless searches as well? (4th A)


This can't include long guns can it?