SJW: Most Abused Term Ever?

[The Xl]

Now we may be getting somewhere...it's like accusing someone of lying when they are just misinformed. What one person deems "a huge" issue, may not be a huge issue to them, whereas, another issue that one deems "minor" may be huge to them. Perception is a big issue when dealing with different backgrounds and experiences.

That's nice and all, but when you're not a female, you don't have the right to use the women's bathroom, you don't even have a case. Perception is irrelevant in cases like that.

[CreepyOldDude]

There is nothing inherently wrong with the concept of social justice, but it also isn't the 1940s anymore, and to some, not all, social justice means advocating for and justifying additional rights and privileges for certain groups, sometimes directly at the expense of others.

Or, you know, the same rights the majority has. Which, to our snowflakes on the right, constitute special rights and privileges.

[Chris]

This is a discussion, we are discussing, guess what media we are using for that exchange...words. Let me know when reality posts on tPF.

Irregardless, my previous post still stands.

It stands with every other incoherent non sequitur nonsensense you post. I doubt anyone has a clue what your point is more that you don't like the term.

[The Xl]

Or, you know, the same rights the majority has. Which, to our snowflakes on the right, constitute special rights and privileges.

In many cases, That's simply incorrect.

[William]

Before we can use the phrase Social Justice Warrior as a pejorative, don't we need to define 'social justice' and what that means to us? I set out what the term means to me in a previous post, but I have seen posts here which treat it with contempt.

If we think social justice is a bad or phony thing, then treating someone who fights for it with contempt makes sense. But if we think social justice is essential to civilisation, then surely such a person is admirable. But then, if we say that person is only fighting for social justice to make others, who don't believe in social justice, look bad - surely we are presuming to know the motives of someone we have never met, and don't know the first thing about? That makes about as much sense as calling someone who votes for a certain political party a 'liberal' (which doesn't mean that at all).

As our English Master often says - "The English language has a lexicon of nearly a million established words - it is the most expressive tongue on earth - yet it lies rusting for want of use; because people are too lazy to learn it, and invent verbs from nouns, misuse terms, and torture the poor wee thing in so many other ways."

[Captain Obvious]

Is "social justice" achieved by handicapping those who don't engage in administering social injustices simply because they belong to a certain demographic?

I think many if not most need to consider the concept of "justice" in "social justice".

[William]

Is "social justice" achieved by handicapping those who don't engage in administering social injustices simply because they belong to a certain demographic?

I think many if not most need to consider the concept of "justice" in "social justice".

I agree with what I think you are saying - as far as the concept of justice is concerned, anyway. I'm not so sure what you are getting at with the "handicapping those who don't engage in administering social injustices simply because they belong to a certain demographic" bit. Can you explain what you mean?

[IMPress Polly]

The XL wrote:
Where is the parallel though? There are legitimate social justice causes, to be sure, like how the drug war disproportionately affects minorities, how the justice system only functions for the upper middle class and up, etc, but those who both champion the SJW label, and those who are considered SJWs, don't really push for important stuff like that.

I don't know if you're just misinformed about this or simply possess a rejectionist attitude toward ideas that won't move you up the social ladder of coolness, but I definitely care about causes like those, as I'm sure you've noticed over the years by now. And if you're referring to the campus social justice movement at all, then you should also realize that the modern iteration of that movement, which began in late 2014, was originally inspired by the events in Ferguson, Missouri that year and has primarily revolved around actions protesting police attacks on unarmed people of color and poor people. If you're talking about the feminist movement, then let me point out that every women's rights organization I'm aware of on some level or other supports Black Lives Matter. The biggest divide in the American center-left in my observation is over the question of what economic justice looks like (hence the Bernie Sanders versus Hillary Clinton camps), not civil rights. Or at least not the basics of civil rights anyway.

Social justice is code word for wealth redistribution and privilege justification for certain groups at the expense of other groups, usually white and Asian males. Very little of it has to do with actual social justice issues.

Social justice is about abolishing privilege, not "redistributing" it. And frankly, it's not like you can name a lot of ways in which your demographic is structurally disadvantaged relative to say mine. If you don't believe me, just look at the demographic composition of America's corporate board rooms or Congress or the White House or the police or your college professors or the Internet (including not least this message board) or the pro sports teams you watch or who the center of the media's attention is (be it movies, video games, TV, comic books, whatever) or who owns that media, etc. Your demographic controls basically everything in America. There are marginal exceptions here and there that you can point to, but that's really a matter of reaching, not an honest look at the big picture. The big picture is that women still make 20% less than men overall despite working longer hours (once you take both paid and unpaid labor into account) and being better educated, both. And yet you complain of being oppressed by women. And people of color. You see how that's kind of disingenuous from where I'm standing? Maybe, possibly, you as an individual have genuinely had a hard life. But there's no way you can honestly look at the statistics concerning your demographic overall and conclude that it is not a favored one that gets oodles of special treatment just for existing.

Many poor white males are pretty $#@!ed by the way our system operates, that's a social justice issue that gets literally no traction.

That's just another lie. The fact that I concern myself with the struggles of women, people of color, and yes LGBTQA people as well, in addition to those of poor people in general (and I think you know by now that I most certainly DO care about ending the exploitation and oppression of poor and working class people) doesn't mean that I hate impoverished white men. It just means you take nearly everything that doesn't benefit you personally as an attack. Most of the stuff I advocate (like the rights of people of color and LGBTQA people and of animals and nature) doesn't benefit me personally. I manage because I'm not actually an immensely selfish person, contrary to your portrayal.

Safety wrote:
What determines what a "real" social justice issue is? Is it only something that is tangible and easily seen? Why would an issue that a transgendered person faces, not be deemed real?

EXACTLY!! You'd think that oppressed people themselves would get to define these things or that others would at least listen to them.

[Safety]

I love the implication that, because I'm white and do not experience traditional discrimination then I am too stupid to recognize and gauge it.

Yeah, $#@! you and your arrogance.

What is an example of discrimination you as a white person experience from the government? Not you personally, but in general that you've heard of.

[Captain Obvious]

What is an example of discrimination you as a white person experience from the government? Not you personally, but in general that you've heard of.

I can make a strong case that I was turned down for jobs because I am white and because I am a male. Lets put it this way, if genders and race were reversed for these two examples I am stating it would be a slam dunk lawsuit.

But since I am a white male my chances at successfully suing for discrimination are... go ahead and guess.

So... there, a two-fer.