Germany rejects Trump's claim it owes NATO and U.S. 'vast sums' for defense......

[del]

What you said was Trump and his entire cabinet and all his advisors dont know how nato works but you do. Sorry GA im not buying that

you should

he's right

your trump is clueless

[Common]

I didn't say Trump's entire cabinet knew nothing about NATO. I said Trump knows nothing about NATO and how it works, and his defenders don't either. That's simply a fact, which I demonstrated by correcting Trump's falsehoods. He's either lying or ignorant. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and pinning it on ignorance.

They are right to reject it. Trump and his defenders have no idea how all of this works.

Thats your statement then you went on to tell us how it works.
Im saying that Trump himself may not know how nato works, but there certainly are people around him who know very well how it works.

I dont care if Germany pays us or not, I would like for us to stop paying for it along with everyone else. If no one is obligated to pay for nato then let it die rather then we keep footing the bill for the industrialized world

[MMC]

What you said was Trump and his entire cabinet and all his advisors dont know how nato works but you do. Sorry GA im not buying that

Exactly.....and advisors advise. Mattis know all about NATO.....in depth. So to Gen Kelly, and a host of people in the Pentagon. So they certainly know how it all works. So that is nothing more than a BS excuse about Trump and his defenders. Mattis and Kelly are just but two of Trumps Defenders.

Of course getting the point across to the Euros, that they can't play the US, and or use us. Is the Right way to proceed. If we say nothing, then they will continue on not looking to step up their own defenses. Then expect us to commit our people to save their asses.


The part about we making a billionaire buffoon with Zero political experience as President. Shows nothing more than a bias based upon a personal feeling from someone who hasn't even reached the age of 35.

[Green Arrow]

They are right to reject it. Trump and his defenders have no idea how all of this works.

Thats your statement then you went on to tell us how it works.
Im saying that Trump himself may not know how nato works, but there certainly are people around him who know very well how it works.

Boy, I sure as hell hope so.

But again, I very explicitly and clearly said that Trump's defenders, not cabinet members or advisers, shared his ignorance. Meaning his supporters, outside of government.

I dont care if Germany pays us or not, I would like for us to stop paying for it along with everyone else. If no one is obligated to pay for nato then let it die rather then we keep footing the bill for the industrialized world

We are not paying for the defense of any other nation except through foreign aid and again, Germany is under zero obligation to pay us for their NATO membership. The only "payment" involved in NATO membership is spending on defense, which member states pay to their own economies and not to the U.S.

[MMC]

They are right to reject it. Trump and his defenders have no idea how all of this works.

Thats your statement then you went on to tell us how it works.
Im saying that Trump himself may not know how nato works, but there certainly are people around him who know very well how it works.

I dont care if Germany pays us or not, I would like for us to stop paying for it along with everyone else. If no one is obligated to pay for nato then let it die rather then we keep footing the bill for the industrialized world

Well lets not forget all his vast experience in the Military and or government. Forgetting about Trump defenders that has what he has never had.

At least now the Euros are talking about having their Own Defense Union. Which has come about with the US criticizing just how much we contribute, as opposed to how much the Euros contribute.

[Newpublius]

Boy, I sure as hell hope so.

But again, I very explicitly and clearly said that Trump's defenders, not cabinet members or advisers, shared his ignorance. Meaning his supporters, outside of government.


We are not paying for the defense of any other nation except through foreign aid and again, Germany is under zero obligation to pay us for their NATO membership. The only "payment" involved in NATO membership is spending on defense, which member states pay to their own economies and not to the U.S.

By telling Germany, 'you owe us' he's not saying they literally owe us, he means they owe use performance under the treaty to spend more. Morally and equitably they do owe us and Trump should make sure they're aware we have been holding their water for decades. That's part of negotiating to get as much host nation support as we possibly can GIVEN that we actually remain in NATO. Sadly, that's the case.

This isn't about the principle, its about the money.

Trump says they owe us? They owe us.

Time to pay up.

Do a little dosey-do with Putin, get people a little antsy, and extract billions. Extort it if you have to. At minimum its time to shift some of the burden from us to them.

[donttread]

She said everyone wanted the burden to be shared fairly and for that to happen it was necessary to have a "modern security concept" that included a modern NATO but also a European defense union and investment in the United Nations......snip~


More importantly was what she was saying with this. A Modern NATO, but also a European Defense Union.


Modern as in New. Plus a European Defense Union.


I can go for that.....as we aren't European. Then we can pull out of that and Establish a Western Alliance for our own defense of this side of the planet. The US, Canada, Mexico, Central America and South America.

Trade one outdated alliance for some new ones? Why not, at least thet'd be new.

[Common]

Boy, I sure as hell hope so.

But again, I very explicitly and clearly said that Trump's defenders, not cabinet members or advisers, shared his ignorance. Meaning his supporters, outside of government.


We are not paying for the defense of any other nation except through foreign aid and again, Germany is under zero obligation to pay us for their NATO membership. The only "payment" involved in NATO membership is spending on defense, which member states pay to their own economies and not to the U.S.

I mistook defenders, but either way no president does it on his own. Trump surely has people advising him that knows nato.

We have to stop paying everyone elses bills for them.

[MMC]

Trade one outdated alliance for some new ones? Why not, at least thet'd be new.

None can deny its our hemisphere, and not any others.

[Green Arrow]

By telling Germany, 'you owe us' he's not saying they literally owe us, he means they owe use performance under the treaty to spend more. Morally and equitably they do owe us and Trump should make sure they're aware we have been holding their water for decades. That's part of negotiating to get as much host nation support as we possibly can GIVEN that we actually remain in NATO. Sadly, that's the case.

Even if we accept your interpretation for the sake of argument, Trump's still wrong. NATO member states have only been required to meet the 2% of GDP spending on defense threshold for a couple years, and all NATO memberstates were given until 2024 to meet it. Germany is well on target to meet their end of it.