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Thread: Astrology is Introduction to Philosophy

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    annata's Avatar Member
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    will have to read thru this. welcome dattaswami, i am bhodi, but not advanced

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    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    will have to read thru this. welcome dattaswami, i am bhodi, but not advanced
    Yes, Annata and please help with the Communication with our friend as you are familiar with the specific terminology. I am sure you can provide some insight as well.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yes, Annata and please help with the Communication with our friend as you are familiar with the specific terminology. I am sure you can provide some insight as well.
    not sure, I am thinking this is Hindu -Buddhism grew out of Hindu(commonalitry of India) - but it's not god based. some of what I read i understand -some is not in my minds data base.
    Why I said I must read it more carefully, not too familiar with Hindu; Jainism,,,,a little bit moreso


    Buddhism and Jainism are two branches of the Shramana tradition that still exist today. Jainism has historically been largely confined to India, whereas Buddhism flourished beyond the borders of its country of origin where it declined during the Middle Ages. Mahavira and Gautama Buddha were contemporaries and according to the Pali scriptures Gautama Buddha was aware of Mahavira's existence as well as his community of monks. Jainism and Buddhism share many features including much of the same terminology. There is no doubt that there was a mutual influence and reception of both religions although Jainism does appear to be an older spiritual tradition out of which Buddhism may have grown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Jainism

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    I agree it is out of the Hindu Stance. he did say Buddhism in one of earlier threads. As i have mentioned something to him concerning the Vedas and the Upanioshads. Yet the Journey of Soul or the Wheel Of Samsara or Awagawan should be familiar to D-Swammi. What I was trying to get him to look at was that Soul may be there for the purpose of the lesson in Birth and rebirth. Hence living a previous lifetime as Evil. Yet was meant to for the growth and development of the final product of the Soul-form.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I agree it is out of the Hindu Stance. he did say Buddhism in one of earlier threads. As i have mentioned something to him concerning the Vedas and the Upanioshads. Yet the Journey of Soul or the Wheel Of Samsara or Awagawan should be familiar to D-Swammi. What I was trying to get him to look at was that Soul may be there for the purpose of the lesson in Birth and rebirth. Hence living a previous lifetime as Evil. Yet was meant to for the growth and development of the final product of the Soul-form.
    The souls is given opportunity in this world to please God through service to Him. God comes to this world in human form and preaches the souls the divine knowledge. Thus souls are provided with this chance of hearing the divine knowledge and to practice it here itself. In this earth only the soul can do practical service or karma or action. God created this world for His entertainment. He is entertained the most when His created souls love Him. The love to God is proved by service to Him. God comes to this world in human form. When souls do not listen the divine knowledge and indulge in eating, drinking and only sex such souls will enter animal kingdom.

    Some souls do social service without any concept of God such souls after death go to temporary heaven and falls back to this earth after the exhaustion of results of good deeds. The souls which do sins , after death go to hell and get the punishment to reduce their mentality. In all the aspects the souls are trained here as well as there to reduce its selfishness and attachment. Thus souls are being trained to realise the truth The truth is the God Himself.

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    D-Swammi.....What you describe is for the Physical Planes. Moreover if one has already reached self realization. There is only the Planes of the pure soul in the ascension to God-Realization.

    Who created Evil? Or is it misintrepreted. Meaning more of the Negative or the Kal which comes from the Creator, God, or Supreme Being. There being two energies manifesting itself outward into all planes and the planes within planes. AKA: Realms. That which was created, All things would experience the Energies of the Creator. Animate and Inanimate.

    Moreover once soul has already passed the forms of the Animal Kindom in describing other creatures outside of humanity. Soul would not revert Back to a lesser form of existence in the world of the Physical. Nor would it revert back down to some form of plant life. Soul is to experience all forms of manifestations of the Creator. Soul cannnot know Evil by studying evil. It can know Of Evil. Until living as such, it cannot even begin to understand any concepts as to the reason why for it. As it is the Creators purpose to let soul Choose, be given a choice, be given free will.
    History does not long Entrust the care of Freedom, to the Weak or Timid!!!!! Dwight D. Eisenhower ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    D-Swammi.....What you describe is for the Physical Planes. Moreover if one has already reached self realization. There is only the Planes of the pure soul in the ascension to God-Realization.

    Who created Evil? Or is it misintrepreted. Meaning more of the Negative or the Kal which comes from the Creator, God, or Supreme Being. There being two energies manifesting itself outward into all planes and the planes within planes. AKA: Realms. That which was created, All things would experience the Energies of the Creator. Animate and Inanimate.

    Moreover once soul has already passed the forms of the Animal Kindom in describing other creatures outside of humanity. Soul would not revert Back to a lesser form of existence in the world of the Physical. Nor would it revert back down to some form of plant life. Soul is to experience all forms of manifestations of the Creator. Soul cannnot know Evil by studying evil. It can know Of Evil. Until living as such, it cannot even begin to understand any concepts as to the reason why for it. As it is the Creators purpose to let soul Choose, be given a choice, be given free will.
    I'm very impressed with your awareness of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Who created Evil? Or is it misintrepreted. .
    People often get the doubt about the creation of bad in this world apart from good. Let us come to the original point. Again, another doubt comes that the creation of bad directly or indirectly spoils the souls and hence, it is objectionable. This objection is also ruled out because the process of examination of the souls is essential for giving the divine fruit. Unless the attraction to bad exists, there is no meaning of examination. The teacher always advises the students to concentrate on studies without going to cinema. Those who concentrated on studies resisting that attraction are rewarded. You cannot say that all the cinema theaters in the city should be destroyed so that the disturbance of concentration can be avoided. The theatre exists in the city to give entertainment to the retired public. Therefore, the aspect of the entertainment of the retired public cannot contradict the aspect of concentration of students on studies. You should not bring the retired public and the students on one line.

    Similarly, you should not bring God and souls on one line. Moreover, unless the theatre exists, there is no meaning in the aspect of concentration on studies resisting the side attractions. If the side attraction is absent, where is the concept of concentration and where is the concept of examination? Such situation leads to meaningless dormant inactivity and lack of spirit of competition, which again bores the students themselves. Then, the students themselves will raise objection. Hence, the bad is created for the sake of the souls only.

    God derives the entertainment from both good and bad and such entertainment is not wrong since bad is not created primarily for the sake of such entertainment only. The entertainment is only secondary since the creation of bad was not done at all for His entertainment. You need not object such entertainment of God when it is not the primary purpose. You cannot say that the founder of a college is responsible for the suicide of a student on failing in the examination. You say that if the founder has not established the college, this incident should not have happened and therefore, the founder is criminal and should be punished!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Soul would not revert Back to a lesser form of existence in the world of the Physical. l.
    God is loving every soul and is helping every soul in this world. He never hates any soul. The punishment in the hell is also to reduce madness of materialism of the soul. Suppose, one son becomes mad, the father will take him to the doctor and admits him in the mental hospital where shock treatments are given. Can you say that the father is angry with the son? Similarly, the hell is for the last sort of trial to transform the soul. The madness is never cured and the son has to be retained in the hospital only forever.



    Same is the concept of the permanent hell. These souls cannot be brought into this world because they will bring Chaos in this world, just like the mad son cannot be brought out of the hospital into the society. Some souls are born as birds, animals etc., Here also only the love of God reflects. As a human being the soul was always interested in eating, drinking and sex only. The soul never turned to God. In such case there is no use of the intelligence of the human category, which is meant for analysis of truth. Therefore, the soul is placed in the cycle of animals, which are also happy like the human beings in eating, drinking and sex only. The human being may think that he may loose his beautiful wife and may have to live with a she-buffalo if he is born as he-buffalo. But the point is that when the soul is born as he-buffalo, the she-buffalo is as beautiful as the present ‘Miss world’!.

    The grass will be as tasty as the sweet dish in the meals today. The soul cannot estimate the happiness of the animal while remaining in the human body. The same happiness is received by the souls in all types of bodies from eating, drinking and sex. What ever he desired, that is given to him by God without any disturbance. In the human life the spiritual knowledge is often disturbing him in achieving the continuous happiness from eating, drinking and sex. Therefore, God favored the soul by such animal-birth and this is not punishing the soul.

    This means God is helping even His enemies. A father will never harm his issue even if it opposes him. He wants always the happiness of the child continuously. The devoted souls want to be with God and derive the divine bliss constantly. God provides opportunity for such devotees also to make them happy constantly by guiding them in achieving the real and highest devotion to Him. Therefore, you can see the same love of God on a devoted soul staying in His abode as an angel and also on a he-buffalo enjoying with the she-buffalo in a mud pond. Both are continuously happy in their own fields! At last God provided what ever the child desired. Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel. When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul. Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    As it is the Creators purpose to let soul Choose, be given a choice, be given free will.
    This world of humanity is based on full freedom and absence of any forcible destiny. Here, you are free to do any type of work and no destiny forces you to do any specific work as said in the Gita (Na kartrutvam...). The concept of destiny exists only in the link of the specific work and the specific fruit. You have full freedom to put your finger in fire or water. No destiny forces you to put your finger in fire or water. The destiny lies only in the link between a specific work and corresponding specific fruit. It is destined that the fire burns your finger and the water keeps your finger cool. The destiny is not in the selection of the work.

    You have put your finger in the fire due to ignorance or ego. After burning the finger, you may say that you have put the finger in the fire due to the destiny. God has destined the specific system, which links every action with a specific fruit. After putting your finger, God is not ordering the fire to burn it. The subsequent fruit for a specific work is already destined. God or the destiny does not interfere with the choice of your selection of a specific work. Even the so called past destiny does not interfere with your works. The composition of your psychology is fixed based on your past deeds. Thus, work is responsible for the will and the will is the generator of the work. Since the composition of your psychology is already based on your past deeds and is fixed, you can treat that as destiny and in such case, destiny is guiding everything.

    The psychology is a specific pattern of ideas generated by the past deeds and it is called as ‘Samskara’. An idea can be changed by knowledge. Samskara is a fixed concept and the right knowledge is a group of right concepts. You have the opportunity of hearing the right knowledge since God comes to this world quite often in human form. You have the freedom to hear such divine knowledge or not to hear. You have also freedom to practice the knowledge or leave it without practice. At every step, the basic freedom is given. This human world is also the right place for testing the devotees and here also, the full freedom is protected. You are totally free to sacrifice anything or not to sacrifice anything even if God desires for it. God does not force you or threaten you or wash your brain in your sacrifice since such sacrifice is not real. God is pleased only with the real sacrifice done by the soul in the atmosphere of total freedom.

    In the examination hall, you are totally free to answer the question paper to any extent or even to return the white paper without writing even a word. God preaches the total concept and in the stage of implementation of it, God does not influence your mind in any way. After teaching all the right knowledge through the Gita, Krishna said that the decision to fight or not is totally left to Arjuna (yathechchasi…). The basic reason is that God is not in need of anything from anybody. The sacrifice is not to satisfy God but only to uplift you. The sacrifice proves your real attachment to God and such real attachment is not in the benefit of God but it is only in your benefit. Krishna asked for the special gem from Satrajit, the father of Satyabhama. Krishna is not in need of that gem. He is the creator of that gem. Even without the help of that gem, He can create wealth. He can even stop the power of the gem to create the wealth. Krishna asked the gem from Satrajit because Satrajit cannot maintain it and will fall in trouble.

    Only for the welfare of Satrajit, He asked him for that gem. But, Satrajit thought that Krishna asked that gem for His personal benefit and thereby, for His personal satisfaction. Such misunderstanding made Satrajit to refuse the gem.

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