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Thread: Read Some Banned Feminist Literature!

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    IMPress Polly's Avatar Senior Member
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    What I mean by "banned", of course, is that the collected works of many of these authors (like Sheila Jeffreys, Janice Raymond, Mary Daly) have been removed from many physical bookstores and university campuses at a private level because of protests against them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    I'm interested in your view of where Women stand today, in terms of rights, opportunities, access to the justice system, etc., compared with the '80s or even earlier.

    I guess the question springs, as much as anything, from what you wrote about "the best feminist literature dat[ing] from the 1980s". Do you believe that this is rooted in the problems, or at least the depth and seriousness of them, being different thirty years on? If I read one of those books from the '80s, would some of the references and observations seem dated or inapplicable to the way things generally are today?
    Not really. This is all radical feminist literature and that branch of the movement has been mostly a generational phenomenon. It was never the dominant trend, but it had a heyday between 1967 and roughly the mid-'80s. It was specifically born out of the anti-Vietnam War movement, which is something the likes of which we haven't seen since in this country. The country was being driven very much by politics (the politics of life and death, mind you) in and around that time and the militancy of some of the feminists of that era was a byproduct of that. Subsequent generations of Americans have grown up in less politically-charged climates. The 1980s was a point at which that generation of radical women was broadly maturing into their 30s and 40s and becoming established, and churning out, broadly speaking, their best literature as a result of that station and their protracted experience in the movement. That's my opinion anyway.

    These books include arguments against heterosexuality, against things like the concept of gender (gender roles, gender rules, the theory of the gendered brain, the transgender movement, etc.), the beauty industry, the sex industry, religion, marriage, and multi-culturalism, calls to significant degrees of female separatism, arguments for alternative spellings and word appropriation, etc. Like I said, these are some of the more radical views that there have been and represent the losing side of the ideological divide in the movement that had become very clear and sharp in the 1980s. Needless to say, I feel that these arguments transcend the timeframe in which they were written and still feel very fresh and unorthodox today. Many of these women are still with us, but they are no-platformed just about everywhere they may attempt to speak. The mainstream women's movement does not support them.

    Sheila Jeffreys in particular is an author whom remains very relevant to radical feminist thinking today. Three out of the four books by her date to 2005 (Beauty and Misogyny), 2012 (Man's Dominion), and 2014 (Gender Hurts) respectively. The publication of Gender Hurts was, I would say, the main factor in shifting the focus of radical feminist thinking to its current one, for example. I feel that she is the most important author of radical women's literature alive today and my personal favorite.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 08-16-2018 at 05:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    But on the topic of female authors: Am fond of Sue Grafton (rip) and the Agatha Christie classics. (My primary genre of choice being mystery/detective novels.)
    If you enjoy a good Sherlock Holmes adventure, I highly recommend Bonnie MacBird's 'Art in the Blood' and 'Unquiet Spirits'. I've read hundreds of Holmes stories over the years and 'Art in the Blood' is near the very top of the charts. (In another life, that of a long-time screenwriter, Bonnie was the co-creator of 'Tron'.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Not really. This is all radical feminist literature and that branch of the movement has been mostly a generational phenomenon. It was never the dominant trend, but it had a heyday between 1967 and roughly the mid-'80s. It was specifically born out of the anti-Vietnam War movement, which is something the likes of which we haven't seen since in this country. The country was being driven very much by politics (the politics of life and death, mind you) in and around that time and the militancy of some of the feminists of that era was a byproduct of that. Subsequent generations of Americans have grown up in less politically-charged climates. The 1980s was a point at which that generation of radical women was broadly maturing into their 30s and 40s and becoming established, and churning out, broadly speaking, their best literature as a result of that station and their protracted experience in the movement. That's my opinion anyway.
    I was an older teenager as the '60s became the '70s, so I well remember the radical divisions in society at that time. Even the emergence of Trumpism and the movement of both major political parties toward their respective fringes have not created the sort of social upheaval, suspicion and radicalism that was an everyday fact of life then. Not yet, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    These books include arguments against heterosexuality, against things like the concept of gender (gender roles, gender rules, the theory of the gendered brain, the transgender movement, etc.), the beauty industry, the sex industry, religion, marriage, and multi-culturalism, calls to significant degrees of female separatism, arguments for alternative spellings and word appropriation, etc. Like I said, these are some of the more radical views that there have been and represent the losing side of the ideological divide in the movement that had become very clear and sharp in the 1980s. Needless to say, I feel that these arguments transcend the timeframe in which they were written and still feel very fresh and unorthodox today. Many of these women are still with us, but they are no-platformed just about everywhere they may attempt to speak. The mainstream women's movement does not support them.
    To be honest, if those women are still campaigning against heterosexuality - of which some of us have grown rather fond - "the theory of the gendered brain" - established science, by the way - marriage and multiculturalism, I'm not shocked or surprised that they are not widely supported.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    To be honest, if those women are still campaigning against heterosexuality - of which some of us have grown rather fond - "the theory of the gendered brain" - established science, by the way - marriage and multiculturalism, I'm not shocked or surprised that they are not widely supported.
    I'm not surprised by it either, and I would frankly be shocked if someone like yourself, or anyone here really, were to embrace more than one or two of their distinctive ideas. Accordingly, I considered the OP something verging on a troll thread.

    In all seriousness though, personally I'm not closed-minded to these sorts of ideas necessarily. *CONTROVERSY!*

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I'm not surprised by it either, and I would frankly be shocked if someone like yourself, or anyone here really, were to embrace more than one or two of their distinctive ideas. Accordingly, I considered the OP something verging on a troll thread.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    In all seriousness though, personally I'm not closed-minded to these sorts of ideas necessarily. *CONTROVERSY!*
    I'm open to hearing about and discussing virtually any theory or idea. Simply dismissing something without rational analysis and thoughtful comment, usually with accompanying insults directed toward the author, is the antithesis of what a discussion board should be.
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    Standing Wolf wrote:
    I'm open to hearing about and discussing virtually any theory or idea. Simply dismissing something without rational analysis and thoughtful comment, usually with accompanying insults directed toward the author, is the antithesis of what a discussion board should be.
    Exactly. I feel that we are at a place in this country right now where people broadly do not tolerate ideas that differ from their own; where the president leads his followers in boycotting news networks, stations, even athletic events that are anything other than mindless propaganda for his agenda. And the phenomenon is replicated among leftists. Critical thinking as a concept is at a premium right now, I feel. I feel that political bigotry is a real thing too that we are presently living with here in the Western world of today.

    There was a time when women like Sheila Jeffreys and Mary Daly could not only speak on a university campus, but actually be esteemed professors in their fields! There was a time when women like these could get on television and make their case without the network being boycotted in protest just for having them. They weren't exactly popular, but they were allowed. I mean here it is: here is Sheila Jeffreys going on a TV talk show in 1990 to present her case against heterosexuality, taking on (including the host) no less than four detractors simultaneously, and holding up remarkably well under those circumstances:



    That era is clearly over. That would not be allowed to happen today. I kind of miss that aspect of the past.

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    Polly, can you give us some examples of these protests? For example, I briefly looked up Sheila Jeffrey's and the only "protests" (I'm being generous) I see are from the delusional transgender crowd and other feminists. When you speak of protests what exactly are you referring. Strife among progressive kooks?

    Please be brief. Thank you.
    Last edited by Mister D; 08-17-2018 at 07:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Exactly. I feel that we are at a place in this country right now where people broadly do not tolerate ideas that differ from their own; where the president leads his followers in boycotting news networks, stations, even athletic events that are anything other than mindless propaganda for his agenda. And the phenomenon is replicated among leftists. Critical thinking as a concept is at a premium right now, I feel. I feel that political bigotry is a real thing too that we are presently living with here in the Western world of today.

    There was a time when women like Sheila Jeffreys and Mary Daly could not only speak on a university campus, but actually be esteemed professors in their fields! There was a time when women like these could get on television and make their case without the network being boycotted in protest just for having them. They weren't exactly popular, but they were allowed. I mean here it is: here is Sheila Jeffreys going on a TV talk show in 1990 to present her case against heterosexuality, taking on (including the host) no less than four detractors simultaneously, and holding up remarkably well under those circumstances:



    That era is clearly over. That would not be allowed to happen today. I kind of miss that aspect of the past.
    Could I ask you to post a link to that video? For some reason I haven't been able to view videos on this board for a long time...I have no idea why.
    "It is a foolish man who believes that he possesses all of the answers unless he is absolutely certain that he has heard all of the questions." - me

    "All three of my kids are adopted, and I'm always telling them, 'Don't ever get high and sign things'." - Paula Poundstone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Could I ask you to post a link to that video? For some reason I haven't been able to view videos on this board for a long time...I have no idea why.
    Just click reply with quote and there's your link.
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