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Thread: Historical perspective on Male Privilege -- Constantinople, 907.

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    Historical perspective on Male Privilege -- Constantinople, 907.

    I am writing an article about Prince Oleg the Seer's attack on Constantinople in the year 907. He lead an army of 60,000 East Slav and Viking warriors against an Empire with an army of 100,000 and population of 8,500,000. His defeat was guaranteed until an unexpected happened -- slaves opened the gates of Constantinople. I would like to analyze the events in terms of the modern concept of Male Privilege. Some of the article I am working on is below.


    Prior to describing the impact of Male Privilege on the course of a particular historical event, we need to define the term as it applies to Early Medieval Constantinople. In order to define Male Privilege I will look at three historical narratives.

    The Feminist and now Mainstream narrative maintains that women were always oppressed, treated like slaves and could not own property. That narrative is false. In almost every society from Ancient Rome to Byzantine Empire to Antebellum USA, women could own property and in fact did own about 30-40% of property. Husbands authority over their wives was very limited -- wife beating was illegal in many societies including America from Colonial Era.

    Some MRA countercultural counternarrative maintains that Human Society has always been gynocentric -- valuing men far less then women. This narrative is also exaggerated -- throughout History about 3% of all men died in wars and 5% of all women died in childbirth. Preindustrial life was difficult for both sexes. In Viking, Slavic, Byzantine societies, men and women had different yet complimentary roles. Both could have a very low or very high status depending on the class.

    I would like to add a third definition of the "Male Privilege" -- experience similar to the experience of a man in Progressive Circles in Western Society around 2018. Not the experience of less then .1% of men who are CEOs, multimillionaires, members of the government, but the experience of countless lower class men.

    First aspect of Male Privilege is discrimination. Men are discriminated in Divorce procedures and Family Courts. Male offenders are more likely to be arrested and convicted then female offenders given the same evidence. Once convicted, men on average get 63% longer penalty for the same crime. Men accused of Sexual Offenses are presumed guilty by College Tribunals and MSM. Male victims of Domestic Violence are more likely to be arrested then helped by Law Enforcement.

    Second aspect of Male Privilege is constant verbal abuse and degradation. At the same time, a man can lose his career for the slightest Microaggression, men are suppose to take constant male bashing and any insult including #killallmen without complaint. According to ``The Problem With Twitter, as shown by the Sarah Jeong fracas" by Ezra Klein, men should not be offended by the phrase ``kill all men". The phrase was frequently used in the Progressive circle of Ezra Klein's friends. Male bashing is constant in the Mainstream Media.

    Third aspect of Male Privilege is being silenced. Any man who complains about the issues described above risks being fired and blacklisted. A recent chart showing that any male who explains anything to a woman without asking permission is mansplainig got over 60,000 likes and as many retweets. Thus, within many progressive circles a man should not speak unless he is given permission.

    Constantinople had a population of about 500,000 -- about 2,500 nobles, 350,000 commoners, and 150,000 "doulos" or "sklavos". About 110,000 doulos were male and 40,000 doulos were female. Using the definition of Male Privilege described above, all doulos experienced it. First, they experienced discrimination. Doulos subject to cruelty got as little help as American male victims of DV in 2018. The law treated them much more harshly then free citizens. Second, Doulos had to accept any insult and had no right to complain. Third, like men in Progressive circles of 2018, servants knew that they had no right to speak to citizens without permission.

    Using the term Male Privilege in relation to doulos may be strange since their status was based on their origin rather then their gender. Female Doulos were treated somewhat less harshly then their male counterparts, moreover they could not be sent to mines and galleys. But they still experienced Male Privilege despite not being male.

    My choice of words to describe their status may seem paradoxical, but no more paradoxical then some other expressions. Many would agree to use the term "firepower" not only for Greek Fire but also for catapults and crossbows. Many languages have words for "monarch" based on Caesar or Charlemange. These words are used to describe ancient monarchs as well.

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    You suck

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    You suck
    I appreciate constructive criticism even from those who disagree with me, but not personal attacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCitizen View Post
    I appreciate constructive criticism even from those who disagree with me, but not personal attacks.
    You suck. That is what your "commentary" is worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45 View Post
    You suck. That is what your "commentary" is worth.
    Until discrimination happens to you, I do not expect you to understand.

    For instance Jian Ghomeshi also thought that men's complaints were invalid until his life was destroyed by the system which presumed him guilty.
    Last edited by CCitizen; 08-26-2018 at 08:14 PM.

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    I wish posters would fill in the 'about me' section in the profile page as I'd like to know just a bit about you, not to judge but to get a sense of who I am addressing. For instance if someone is a vet I know the experiences they have been through at least on a basic level. Discrimination happens to all of us at sometime or another. Our family was discussing how we grew up yesterday and we all laughed because we were probably looked on as poor white trash, but years ago that sentiment differed from today. Lots of families had nothing that was just the way it was. Today that has kinda changed but I can't be sure how much. Few in America recognize class as we pretend people get their just deserts or some magical equality exists. The opioid crisis should give pause. Anyway CC tell what the point is and explain a bit about male privilege from a modern perspective - even males experience discrimination, be ugly heavy old or slow and see....
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    Our family was discussing how we grew up yesterday and we all laughed because we were probably looked on as poor white trash, but years ago that sentiment differed from today. Lots of families had nothing that was just the way it was. Today that has kinda changed but I can't be sure how much. Few in America recognize class as we pretend people get their just deserts or some magical equality exists. The opioid crisis should give pause. Anyway CC tell what the point is and explain a bit about male privilege from a modern perspective - even males experience discrimination, be ugly heavy old or slow and see....
    1) Class is definitely one of the major axis along which discrimination exists.

    2) Gender-based discrimination against men is not as commonly known as discrimination against women, but it does happen:

    1) Men are discriminated in Divorce procedures and Family Courts.

    2) Male offenders are more likely to be arrested and convicted then female offenders given the same evidence. Once convicted, men on average get 63% longer penalty for the same crime.

    3) Men accused of Sexual Offenses are presumed guilty by College Tribunals and MSM.

    4) Male victims of Domestic Violence are more likely to be arrested then helped by Law Enforcement.
    Many people who have not experienced these things have very little knowledge of them.

    For instance, Michael Kimmel spend a lifetime mocking men who claim to be discriminated against. Now he is accused of Sexual Misconduct and presumed guilty.

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    We grew up as what man would describe as poor-white-trash. Or backward ass country-f--ks. We didn't have two nickels to rub together. We farmed to eat.
    There's no question that men face gender-based discrimination.
    White people face racial discrimination just at less frequency than people of color. I have lost clients b/c I'm white. My children were excluded from degree programs b/c they're white.
    I have faced religious and ethnic discrimination (Dark skinned Italian Catholic)
    I have faced what you'd call class discrimination.

    A lot of us (of all color, races, ethnicities and backgrounds) didn't whine about it, we got to work, earned degrees (or joined the service, went to work, started businesses, pounded hours, saved money), made something out of ourselves and taught our children that life wasn't fair.
    Last edited by DGUtley; 08-27-2018 at 03:22 PM.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Perhaps my story about Constantinople 907 and Oleg The Seer was poorly written.

    In USA 2018, many men who disagree with President Trump on almost all economic issues will support him, since Progressives treat men as evil Privileged Oppressors. I understand that President Trump has faults, but Progressives' nnemy is our friend.

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