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Thread: Dress code or Racism?

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    Boris The Animal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Dress code or Racism?

    Some time ago, and I don't have the link for it, there was a story about a woman who sued a business she was applying for a job. Reason why she was declined was that her hair didn't meet the company's appearance code. The court sided with the business and I started an ensuing discussion on FB about it.
    Now, having said that, allow me to give my scenario. Suppose I were the owner of a tour and charter bus company, fairly mid sized with a fleet of 45 buses, and was hiring drivers. Now, I make it clear what my expectations for appearance, IN WRITING are:

    1) Uniform code including uniform shirt, slacks, black shoes (polishable) and socks, tie (optional during Summer), vest, cap, and jacket all optional except on high end or high profile charters.

    2) Clean Shaven, mustaches allowed, beards/VanDykes/Goatees allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE NEATLY TRIMMED!!!!

    3) Professional attitude and demeanor at all times as the driver is the ambassador for my company.

    Now. That being said, and documented in writing, I get two well qualified driver candidates with impeccable backgrounds, both black, but one is clean cut, shaven, groomed to the hilt, the other has dreds, and a Pharaoh beard. I hire the clean cut man ahead of the other candidate, would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism, even though my policies for appearance are there in black and white (no pun intended)? Just putting this out there.
    IT'S JUST BORIS!





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    ewe b racyist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    Some time ago, and I don't have the link for it, there was a story about a woman who sued a business she was applying for a job. Reason why she was declined was that her hair didn't meet the company's appearance code. The court sided with the business and I started an ensuing discussion on FB about it.
    Now, having said that, allow me to give my scenario. Suppose I were the owner of a tour and charter bus company, fairly mid sized with a fleet of 45 buses, and was hiring drivers. Now, I make it clear what my expectations for appearance, IN WRITING are:

    1) Uniform code including uniform shirt, slacks, black shoes (polishable) and socks, tie (optional during Summer), vest, cap, and jacket all optional except on high end or high profile charters.

    2) Clean Shaven, mustaches allowed, beards/VanDykes/Goatees allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE NEATLY TRIMMED!!!!

    3) Professional attitude and demeanor at all times as the driver is the ambassador for my company.

    Now. That being said, and documented in writing, I get two well qualified driver candidates with impeccable backgrounds, both black, but one is clean cut, shaven, groomed to the hilt, the other has dreds, and a Pharaoh beard. I hire the clean cut man ahead of the other candidate, would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism, even though my policies for appearance are there in black and white (no pun intended)? Just putting this out there.
    If your dress code says clean shaven and short well well-groomed hair (for men), you wouldn't have a problem. It depends on your dress code. If your dress code didn't specify, then you would be in trouble.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    If your dress code says clean shaven and short well well-groomed hair (for men), you wouldn't have a problem. It depends on your dress code. If your dress code didn't specify, then you would be in trouble.
    This is why I put in in plain English on print. Also, for the ladies, minimal jewelry, no excessive makeup, and hair neatly done, preferably (for safety) pulled back. You OK with any of that?
    IT'S JUST BORIS!





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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    This is why I put in in plain English on print. Also, for the ladies, minimal jewelry, no excessive makeup, and hair neatly done, preferably (for safety) pulled back. You OK with any of that?
    I believe that legally as a private employer, your dress code can be as severe as you want it to be, as long as it isn't sexist. However, if I were you, I would have that employment contract and dress code reviewed by a lawyer who is also well versed in labor law. That protects you, since if the lawyer is wrong, you retain a right of action on the basis of wrong, bad or incompetent legal advice, in which case the lawyer will have to compensate you for any penalties you pay. It's worth the money in legal fees to ensure that you are not violating some obscure labor law.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I believe that legally as a private employer, your dress code can be as severe as you want it to be, as long as it isn't sexist. However, if I were you, I would have that employment contract and dress code reviewed by a lawyer who is also well versed in labor law. That protects you, since if the lawyer is wrong, you retain a right of action on the basis of wrong, bad or incompetent legal advice, in which case the lawyer will have to compensate you for any penalties you pay. It's worth the money in legal fees to ensure that you are not violating some obscure labor law.
    Oh believe me, my legal ass would be covered.
    IT'S JUST BORIS!





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    I think a company should be able to hire what ever type of person that they see fit. Becsause, that person will be representing their companny. If appearance didnt matter at all then no one would dress up for job interviews or courtdates. The thing is that appearances do matter. I am not really talking looks but just appearance such as clothing and tidiness. A company might have a certain immage to uphold, and they should have the right to hire who ever they think is fit for the job. I worked at a place once and noticed that they only hired really pretty and young secretaries. I know it may be somewhat discriminatory but it is their company and their right to do so. So if a person wants to see young pretty people every day that is their prerogative I suppose. There are plenty of other jobs out there for persons of all walks of life.

    If appearances didn't matter at all then there would be no need for an interview and putting your best face forward.

    If an overweight middle aged woman went to Hooters to apply for a job, I am not sure she would get the job. Could she say it was discrimination, sure. But the company is looking for a certain type of person to represent their company. You have got the have the appearance they are looking for in this case it is probably young, pretty, and some decent sized you know what's. I am just throwing it out there in an honest way not necessarily being politically correct here.

    If you owned some high end jewelry shop you probably would want someone with some class, with nice decent combed hair and that dressed neat and had a clean appearance, if the person showed up with stained clothes and hair not combed it might turn customers off and they may not purchase or return.

    But this being said, an employer should be upfront about what they are looking for and choose wisely. If you are looking for someone with class or looking for someone who is down to earth its all up to the type of work or the type of person the employer wishes to see all day, or the type of personality that matches with theirs.

    I personally try to never judge based on looks. I judge people based on what kind of person they are. But each person can judge any way they want as long as they are not harming another person. That is what I think anyways.

    I think most of us discriminate in some ways we just are not aware of it sometimes. I know I do have some discrimination that arises in me when I am near a gang member or drug addict type. I don't know why it happens and I don't act on it. But I can feel the emotion arise inside of me. I am not comfortable in their presence and cant wait to get away. I have personally seen how dangerous people like that can be, so I guess it is a deep seeded feeling in me, and all of us have those discriminations about one thing or another. It is part of our survival. It is like a skunk all animals in the wild are aware that you don't mess with a skunk. It is possible that even a lion would not try to take a skunk. Just like even a grown man can scream when they see a little spider. These are our survival instincts that we call discrimination.

    I think this is part of why when an employer choose a person to represent their company they try to find one that will not offend or bring up that discrimination in their customers. The survival of their company depends on it. It all depends on your company type. It is all about communication, appearance and body language are all part of communication and communication is complex. There are many calculations that take place when people encounter one another, it is vast really.

    I would say that is my two cents but it was more like my bazillion cents.
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    Some time ago, and I don't have the link for it, there was a story about a woman who sued a business she was applying for a job. Reason why she was declined was that her hair didn't meet the company's appearance code. The court sided with the business and I started an ensuing discussion on FB about it.
    Now, having said that, allow me to give my scenario. Suppose I were the owner of a tour and charter bus company, fairly mid sized with a fleet of 45 buses, and was hiring drivers. Now, I make it clear what my expectations for appearance, IN WRITING are:

    1) Uniform code including uniform shirt, slacks, black shoes (polishable) and socks, tie (optional during Summer), vest, cap, and jacket all optional except on high end or high profile charters.

    2) Clean Shaven, mustaches allowed, beards/VanDykes/Goatees allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE NEATLY TRIMMED!!!!

    3) Professional attitude and demeanor at all times as the driver is the ambassador for my company.

    Now. That being said, and documented in writing, I get two well qualified driver candidates with impeccable backgrounds, both black, but one is clean cut, shaven, groomed to the hilt, the other has dreds, and a Pharaoh beard. I hire the clean cut man ahead of the other candidate, would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism, even though my policies for appearance are there in black and white (no pun intended)? Just putting this out there.
    You need to check out the labor laws in your state. But in general, I think you are good in this case. There are questions that you cannot ask in employment interviews. But yours above look good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    Some time ago, and I don't have the link for it, there was a story about a woman who sued a business she was applying for a job. Reason why she was declined was that her hair didn't meet the company's appearance code. The court sided with the business and I started an ensuing discussion on FB about it.
    Now, having said that, allow me to give my scenario. Suppose I were the owner of a tour and charter bus company, fairly mid sized with a fleet of 45 buses, and was hiring drivers. Now, I make it clear what my expectations for appearance, IN WRITING are:

    1) Uniform code including uniform shirt, slacks, black shoes (polishable) and socks, tie (optional during Summer), vest, cap, and jacket all optional except on high end or high profile charters.

    2) Clean Shaven, mustaches allowed, beards/VanDykes/Goatees allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE NEATLY TRIMMED!!!!

    3) Professional attitude and demeanor at all times as the driver is the ambassador for my company.

    Now. That being said, and documented in writing, I get two well qualified driver candidates with impeccable backgrounds, both black, but one is clean cut, shaven, groomed to the hilt, the other has dreds, and a Pharaoh beard. I hire the clean cut man ahead of the other candidate, would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism, even though my policies for appearance are there in black and white (no pun intended)? Just putting this out there.
    No legal leg to stand on but in our current culture who knows. If he needs the job he can cut his hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    No legal leg to stand on but in our current culture who knows. If he needs the job he can cut his hair.
    Or find a job where his hair isn't an issue. Their was an article linked on Drudge a couple of days ago about a freak who had tattoos all over including to make his face look like a skill. Also a split tongue. I expect that 99% of employers would call the cops if he showed up for an interview.
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