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Thread: Dress code or Racism?

  1. #11
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    jigglepete's Avatar Senior Member
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    A couple of observations regarding your scenario, one you don't mention anything about non-facial hair, plus pharaoh style beard cuts tend to be very neat in my experience, now if applicant #2 wears dreads for religious reasons, that might get sticky, but if he wears them as a "look" I can't see that as being a problem, especially if the two candidates have equally good resumes.

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    Employers should be able to hire or not hire anyone they choose for whatever reason they wish. No one has a "right" to work for a particular person or company.

    I have a policy of no visible tattoos. I refuse to hire anyone who has a tattoo that cannot be covered. I have established policies regarding hair, facial hair, jewelry, including piercings with adornments, etcetera. If you don't want to comply with those policies, go look for work elsewhere. My employees represent me personally. I will determine the standards for doing so.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by jigglepete View Post
    A couple of observations regarding your scenario, one you don't mention anything about non-facial hair, plus pharaoh style beard cuts tend to be very neat in my experience, now if applicant #2 wears dreads for religious reasons, that might get sticky, but if he wears them as a "look" I can't see that as being a problem, especially if the two candidates have equally good resumes.

    He may have lost the job due to his inability to follow the rules. If both were African American, both were equally qualified except that one showed a willingness to follow rules and the other had a "Don't tell me how to dress" attitude how is not hiring him racial discrimination or discrimination of any type.

    Years ago, before the primitive body painting craze began I had a young lady apply for a job at my company. She was heavily tattooed on her arms and neck. I wrote her off immediately as someone I could not trust to follow my directions because it was obvious she wouldn't follow the rules of decorum in place at the time. I did not keep her application nor did I even review it.

    Today may be different because that is more socially acceptable. I would save her application but it would be on the bottom of the pile.

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    Some time ago, and I don't have the link for it, there was a story about a woman who sued a business she was applying for a job. Reason why she was declined was that her hair didn't meet the company's appearance code. The court sided with the business and I started an ensuing discussion on FB about it.
    Now, having said that, allow me to give my scenario. Suppose I were the owner of a tour and charter bus company, fairly mid sized with a fleet of 45 buses, and was hiring drivers. Now, I make it clear what my expectations for appearance, IN WRITING are:

    1) Uniform code including uniform shirt, slacks, black shoes (polishable) and socks, tie (optional during Summer), vest, cap, and jacket all optional except on high end or high profile charters.

    2) Clean Shaven, mustaches allowed, beards/VanDykes/Goatees allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE NEATLY TRIMMED!!!!

    3) Professional attitude and demeanor at all times as the driver is the ambassador for my company.

    Now. That being said, and documented in writing, I get two well qualified driver candidates with impeccable backgrounds, both black, but one is clean cut, shaven, groomed to the hilt, the other has dreds, and a Pharaoh beard. I hire the clean cut man ahead of the other candidate, would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism, even though my policies for appearance are there in black and white (no pun intended)? Just putting this out there.
    That's the world of work, the marketplace. Not racism. Practice your culture at home but we need common culture in the marketplace to prosper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism...
    IMHO he has a legal leg to stand on in a racism claim, only if he can prove 2 things. In that you are 1)a Caucasian hiring manager or owner who is 2)allowing Caucasian drivers to wear Caucasian dreads and Caucasian pharaoh beards, or some similar unkempt cultural-styles.
    Last edited by Raffishragabash; 10-18-2018 at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    That's the world of work, the marketplace. Not racism...
    I agree. The neat appearance is a business practice that the owner chose.

    That's why I said the applicant only has a legit racism claim, if he can show that the owner is allowing for Caucasian drivers to wear similar, famously-unkempt hairstyles and beards which are popular among the White culture.

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    Boris The Animal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffishragabash View Post
    I agree. The neat appearance is a business practice that the owner chose.

    That's why I said the applicant only has a legit racism claim, if he can show that the owner is allowing for Caucasian drivers to wear similar, famously-unkempt hairstyles and beards which are popular among the White culture.
    Uhh you conveniently forgot the part about my dress and appearance code applies to ALL operators and is in writing!!!
    IT'S JUST BORIS!





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    Admiral Ackbar's Avatar Advisor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    Some time ago, and I don't have the link for it, there was a story about a woman who sued a business she was applying for a job. Reason why she was declined was that her hair didn't meet the company's appearance code. The court sided with the business and I started an ensuing discussion on FB about it.
    Now, having said that, allow me to give my scenario. Suppose I were the owner of a tour and charter bus company, fairly mid sized with a fleet of 45 buses, and was hiring drivers. Now, I make it clear what my expectations for appearance, IN WRITING are:

    1) Uniform code including uniform shirt, slacks, black shoes (polishable) and socks, tie (optional during Summer), vest, cap, and jacket all optional except on high end or high profile charters.

    2) Clean Shaven, mustaches allowed, beards/VanDykes/Goatees allowed AS LONG AS THEY ARE NEATLY TRIMMED!!!!

    3) Professional attitude and demeanor at all times as the driver is the ambassador for my company.

    Now. That being said, and documented in writing, I get two well qualified driver candidates with impeccable backgrounds, both black, but one is clean cut, shaven, groomed to the hilt, the other has dreds, and a Pharaoh beard. I hire the clean cut man ahead of the other candidate, would the man with the Dreds have a legal leg to stand on? Is this an example of racism, even though my policies for appearance are there in black and white (no pun intended)? Just putting this out there.
    It is Racism. Racism is everywhere. Race controls everything. I cant walk down the hall to my bedroom with out Racism effecting me! Ever wonder why most toilets are white? I get to bed and guess what.. my sheets... you guessed it White! This country has a lot of work to do.

    BTW why is the background on this site white? See my point?
    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"----Fletcher in The Outlaw Josey Wales

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris The Animal View Post
    Uhh you conveniently forgot the part about my dress and appearance code applies to ALL operators and is in writing!!!
    OH no, I did not forget that. I bet you would fairly apply that policy.

    But most White entrepreneurs do not. IMHO they are the ones who voted Trump into office and they are the private sector who refused to work with Obama so to ruin his legacy by refusing to invest in America.

    They feel that it is 'their country' especially now that Trump revived the idea of The Mayflower descendents finally getting their country back. So they can tell the dreads applicant no, and feel perfectly moral plus ethical about not hiring him ---at the same time they have White drivers who have popular unkempt White hairstyles.

    I'm not blaming you sir, as I just answered the topic question/used the current racial climate we live in, to show how the dreds guy can have a legit racism claim.
    Last edited by Raffishragabash; 10-18-2018 at 09:24 PM.

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