What Makes a True Atheist?

[Chris]

True enough. Yet certain people seem compelled to equate any degree of faith in virtually anything - Science, humanity, or what-have-you - with religiosity...with believing in an intelligent, omnipresent God-Creator. Apparently, some atheists think that other atheists aren't as positively atheistic as they are and need correction. Living without faith in anything whatsoever would appear to be their standard.

I'm sure some are as shallow thinking as that but it doesn't seem John Gray is among them given he goes on to elucidate the differences among the types of atheists.

“Modern atheists are constantly trying to find surrogates for the god they reject—science for example, political surrogates, belief in human progress, or whatever. I think to be a true atheist, you would dispense with those, and live in a world that was truly godless.”

Given the liberal (classical to modern) need to undermine tradition especially faith, liberals then need to fill that void. Humanism and Statism seem to have sufficed.

[Captdon]

I thought atheists, the ones I know, didn't believe in God. I didn't see them replace it with something else. They sometimes questioned how I could believe. Umm, I did know one who worshiped the 64 1/2 Mustang.

[littlejohn]

When considering how people organize themselves,
I submit the following for your consideration:

There is the first consideration, which is where they are born. Wherever on Earth one pops out, there will exist some cultural and political imposition. Adapting to one's environment will boot up an initial framework of understanding, shaping ones ability to navigate metaphysically, forever.

The first time I wrote that sentence, approximately ten years past, it read differently. Cultural and political imposition included a third -- religion.
In my current thinking, religion is a branch of politics. The questions that could not be answered with the triangle model (culture, politics, religion) were solved readily with the two node model, culture and politics.

The relevance of that remark is not immediately apparent to most. I understand that. Even still, tuck it away somewhere.

[Chris]

I thought atheists, the ones I know, didn't believe in God. I didn't see them replace it with something else. They sometimes questioned how I could believe. Umm, I did know one who worshiped the 64 1/2 Mustang.

Right, they probably say little about it, not all do. But some put faith instead in humanism, statism, science, and rage against faith in God.

[Chris]

When considering how people organize themselves,
I submit the following for your consideration:

There is the first consideration, which is where they are born. Wherever on Earth one pops out, there will exist some cultural and political imposition. Adapting to one's environment will boot up an initial framework of understanding, shaping ones ability to navigate metaphysically, forever.

The first time I wrote that sentence, approximately ten years past, it read differently. Cultural and political imposition included a third -- religion.
In my current thinking, religion is a branch of politics. The questions that could not be answered with the triangle model (culture, politics, religion) were solved readily with the two node model, culture and politics.

The relevance of that remark is not immediately apparent to most. I understand that. Even still, tuck it away somewhere.

Today, some would argue, economics has superceded even politics. See Polanyi's The Great Transformation for instance.

[Mister D]

Yea, I stopped at his name. Dostoyevsky, when imprisoned, only book a Bible, wrote: "I believe that there is nothing lovelier, deeper, more sympathetic, more rational, more manly and more perfect than the Savior;...If anyone could prove to me that Christ is outside the truth, and if the truth really did exclude Christ, I should prefer to stay with Christ and not the truth."

Great quote.

[Mister D]

Belief in god is at the same level as belief in ghosts.

Militant atheist

[Chris]

Belief in god is at the same level as belief in ghosts.

[Mister D]

Today, some would argue, economics has superceded even politics. See Polanyi's The Great Transformation for instance.

I think that's truer now than it was in Polyani's day.

[Mister D]

Honestly, I don't think klilgram is at the point where he is truly considering these options at a philosophical level.