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Thread: What Makes a True Atheist?

  1. #21
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I think that's truer now than it was in Polyani's day.
    True, he was just mapping out the transition from organic to economic views of the world.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I'm an atheist, an agnostic atheist specifically. I see my atheism as fitting what British philosopher John Gray describes as a true atheist. I have not replaced worship of God with the religion of Statism or worship of the State or any belief in the moral progress of man. And I respect those of faith because the religon of a time and place is part and parcel the fabric of community.

    What Makes a True Atheist?
    I have to wonder too about the focus on monotheism. Is monotheism synonymous with the religious option? Or is it because atheism is of Western origin and developed in the context of a civilization heavily impacted, indeed even formed, by a monotheistic faith?
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I have to wonder too about the focus on monotheism. Is monotheism synonymous with the religious option? Or is it because atheism is of Western origin and developed in the context of a civilization heavily impacted, indeed even formed, by a monotheistic faith?
    Hmm, atheism has origins in classical Greek thinking, like Epicurus's, and it wasn't monotheistic. Though it did have a hierarchy of gods.

    I think modern atheism turns from monotheism to the State with its monopoly on the use of violence or the universalism of humanism.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilgram View Post
    Belief in god is at the same level as belief in ghosts.
    Enter the militant atheist, stage left.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Mister D (09-15-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    True enough. Yet certain people seem compelled to equate any degree of faith in virtually anything - Science, humanity, or what-have-you - with religiosity...with believing in an intelligent, omnipresent God-Creator. Apparently, some atheists think that other atheists aren't as positively atheistic as they are and need correction. Living without faith in anything whatsoever would appear to be their standard.
    At least you are willing to admit that even atheists have to have faith in something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I'm sure some are as shallow thinking as that but it doesn't seem John Gray is among them given he goes on to elucidate the differences among the types of atheists.

    “Modern atheists are constantly trying to find surrogates for the god they reject—science for example, political surrogates, belief in human progress, or whatever. I think to be a true atheist, you would dispense with those, and live in a world that was truly godless.”

    Given the liberal (classical to modern) need to undermine tradition especially faith, liberals then need to fill that void. Humanism and Statism seem to have sufficed.
    Classical liberalism was not characterized by a "need to undermine tradition, especially faith". Most classical liberals were either Christians or deists. And much of their seemingly radical belief system had a strong basis in Christian theology and Anglo-Saxon customs going back centuries.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 09-15-2018 at 05:35 PM.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Hmm, atheism has origins in classical Greek thinking, like Epicurus's, and it wasn't monotheistic. Though it did have a hierarchy of gods.

    I think modern atheism turns from monotheism to the State with its monopoly on the use of violence or the universalism of humanism.
    No ancient intellectual, as far as I know, denied the existence of God or gods. As I understand it, men like Epicurus did not deny the gods but asserted they did not bother with mankind and thus men had no reason to either worship or fear them. One also has to understand ancient religion be it Greek, Mesopotamian or whatever. The gods were in the world. They were a part of the cosmos not its origin. The thinking of Epicurus was more along deist lines. It's funny because it was Christians themselves who condemned Epicurus an atheist.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Hmm, atheism has origins in classical Greek thinking, like Epicurus's, and it wasn't monotheistic. Though it did have a hierarchy of gods.

    I think modern atheism turns from monotheism to the State with its monopoly on the use of violence or the universalism of humanism.
    I hit post by accident.

    I agree with your second comment. That seems obvious enough in hindsight.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    Quote Originally Posted by John Gray
    I think to be a true atheist, you would dispense with those, and live in a world that was truly godless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Apparently, some atheists think that other atheists aren't as positively atheistic as they are and need correction. Living without faith in anything whatsoever would appear to be their standard.
    Exactly the same thought, in different words.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    At least you are willing to admit that even atheists have to have faith in something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    Exactly the same thought, in different words.
    You two should argue that out. Your words and Gray's aren't the same at all.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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