What Makes a True Atheist?

[Chris]

I'm an atheist, an agnostic atheist specifically. I see my atheism as fitting what British philosopher John Gray describes as a true atheist. I have not replaced worship of God with the religion of Statism or worship of the State or any belief in the moral progress of man. And I respect those of faith because the religon of a time and place is part and parcel the fabric of community.

What Makes a True Atheist?

...Gray’s new book, Seven Types of Atheism (FSG, Oct.), takes that argument a step further by maintaining that many strands of atheism replace traditional religion with a worship of the human being. Though godless, much of what is called "atheist" is actually religious, says Gray. He asserts that the only difference between traditional atheism and religion is that instead of the worship of a monotheistic God, atheists find faith in humanity and its ability to improve as a species, and uses uprisings of the working class and technology as examples. But first, Gray establishes the different schools of thought among atheists in the book.

...The author says the seven types of atheism can sometimes meld into each other—but he contends that only two are true forms of an absence of belief in the existence of deities.

“Truer forms of atheism are ones that shed monotheistic thinking, not just monotheistic beliefs,” said Gray. “Modern atheists are constantly trying to find surrogates for the god they reject—science for example, political surrogates, belief in human progress, or whatever. I think to be a true atheist, you would dispense with those, and live in a world that was truly godless.”

Instead, Grays said, the true types of atheism are “an atheism without any belief in the human progress of civilization, and an atheism of silence,” which he compares to religious traditions that talk about God as being indefinable. It is these last two types of atheism that he embraces....

[Chris]

This review, Seven Types of Atheism by John Gray review – is every atheist an inverted believer?, seems to get to the heart of the matter:

Gray also believes that humanists are in bad faith. Most of them are atheists, but all they have done is substitute humanity for God. They thus remain in thrall to the very religious faith they reject. In fact, most supposedly secular thought in Gray’s view is repressed religion, from the liberalism of John Locke to the millenarian visions of the Jacobins and Bolsheviks. The popular belief that atheism and religion are opposites is, in his view, a mistake. Gray also takes a swipe at the kind of atheism that sees religion as a primitive stab at understanding the universe, one that science will later replace. Gray, to his credit, sees that religions are not theories of the world but forms of life. They are less systems of belief than acts of faith. Fanatical God-haters such as the Marquis de Sade, Dostoevsky and the literary critic William Empson are also sent packing as no more than inverted believers. (God, Empson wrote with an agreeable flourish, “is the wickedest thing yet invented by the black heart of man”.) What remains is the kind of atheism that renounces God while having a low estimate of humanity. Since you could probably find this in most Oxbridge senior common rooms, it is hardly the most mind-shaking of conclusions.

[Ethereal]

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God.

A militant atheist is someone who goes around saying that a belief in God is irrational or unreasonable.

More often than not, atheism is replaced by an ersatz religion, like worship of the state or the collective. Examples of such include Soviet Russia and Maoist China.

[Mister D]

That looks interesting. I'm curious as to why Dostoyevsky would characterized as a God hater. He was involved with a radical group when he was a younger and spent a few years in prison. He was actually sentenced to death but I don't want to go off on a tangent. Anyway, he is known for his deep Christian conviction.

[Chris]

That looks interesting. I'm curious as to why Dostoyevsky would characterized as a God hater. He was involved with a radical group when he was a younger and spent a few years in prison. He was actually sentenced to death but I don't want to go off on a tangent. Anyway, he is known for his deep Christian conviction.

Yea, I stopped at his name. Dostoyevsky, when imprisoned, only book a Bible, wrote: "I believe that there is nothing lovelier, deeper, more sympathetic, more rational, more manly and more perfect than the Savior;...If anyone could prove to me that Christ is outside the truth, and if the truth really did exclude Christ, I should prefer to stay with Christ and not the truth."

[Chris]

It may have been the reviewer at fault. Here is John Grey writing of Dostoyevsky after narrowly escaping execution in The writer who foresaw the rise of the totalitarian state:

From then onwards he realised that human life was not a movement from a backward past to a better future, as he had believed or half-believed when he shared the ideas of the radical intelligentsia. Instead, every human being stood at each moment on the edge of eternity. As a result of this revelation, Dostoyevsky became increasingly mistrustful of the progressive ideology to which he had been drawn as a young man.

He was particularly scornful of the ideas he found in St Petersburg when he returned from his decade of Siberian exile. The new generation of Russian intellectuals was gripped by European theories and philosophies. French materialism, German humanism and English utilitarianism were melded together into a peculiarly Russian combination that came to be called "nihilism".

[Carlsen]

.
Life is difficult enough without believing there is no God



.

[kilgram]

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God.

A militant atheist is someone who goes around saying that a belief in God is irrational or unreasonable.

More often than not, atheism is replaced by an ersatz religion, like worship of the state or the collective. Examples of such include Soviet Russia and Maoist China.

Belief in god is at the same level as belief in ghosts.

[Standing Wolf]

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God.

True enough. Yet certain people seem compelled to equate any degree of faith in virtually anything - Science, humanity, or what-have-you - with religiosity...with believing in an intelligent, omnipresent God-Creator. Apparently, some atheists think that other atheists aren't as positively atheistic as they are and need correction. Living without faith in anything whatsoever would appear to be their standard.

[Chris]

It always amazes me when some dismiss a topic with appeal to ready-made definitions.

From the OP: "'Truer forms of atheism are ones that shed monotheistic thinking, not just monotheistic beliefs,' said Gray."