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Thread: What is in the hole?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejohn View Post
    The hole seems to be a sub-forum, where one is warned that things will get wild in a hurry --
    but it has moderators and is expected to be compliant in the same ways as the rest of the place --


    Seems to me the concept of a free zone would be interesting to say the least.
    Especially since you are told -- don't come in here if you cant handle it ---

    So, whats up with that ?
    It is mostly an odious venue for bad faith posting, but there are a couple of rules - no attacks on member's families and no threats.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    It is mostly an odious venue for bad faith posting, but there are a couple of rules - no attacks on member's families and no threats.

    Is it?

    The idea behind bad faith posting was originally meant as a label for those who break rules across threads and time. Habitual offenders needing harsher treatment.

    Then it morphed into a catchall when no rule applied.

    Now it just means posting something someone dislikes.


    Good or bad faith requires the context of purpose.

    Generally, the purpose of a forum is discussion. Good faith to that is participation in discussion, bad faith detracting from and disrupting discussion.

    For this forum that's defined by the rules.

    The rules for the Hole are, other than family and threats, none. Good faith to that is anything goes. Bad faith is going after family or threating someone.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Is it?

    The idea behind bad faith posting was originally meant as a label for those who break rules across threads and time. Habitual offenders needing harsher treatment.

    Then it morphed into a catchall when no rule applied.

    Now it just means posting something someone dislikes.


    Good or bad faith requires the context of purpose.

    Generally, the purpose of a forum is discussion. Good faith to that is participation in discussion, bad faith detracting from and disrupting discussion.

    For this forum that's defined by the rules.

    The rules for the Hole are, other than family and threats, none. Good faith to that is anything goes. Bad faith is going after family or threating someone.
    Bad faith is the act of being intentionally deceptive. That sounds simple, but it's actually very complex. When people insult others for their opinions and pretend that those opinions are objectively wrong, but in reality simply don't conform to their way of thinking, that is just self-serving deception. Calling someone a liar because their opinion doesn't conform to another's when no one can claim to have all of the facts is bad faith.

    The Hole is an odious place where members often engage in gang warfare or where someone writes inflamatory things about another, much like you might find on bathroom walls in the past or on a Facebook page today. It's a forum for combat and character assassination. I don't believe that it serves the purpose for which it was intended. Instead, it's a breeding ground for ill-will and the fomenting of long-standing adversity between members.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Bad faith is the act of being intentionally deceptive. That sounds simple, but it's actually very complex. When people insult others for their opinions and pretend that those opinions are objectively wrong, but in reality simply don't conform to their way of thinking, that is just self-serving deception. Calling someone a liar because their opinion doesn't conform to another's when no one can claim to have all of the facts is bad faith.

    The Hole is an odious place where members often engage in gang warfare or where someone writes inflamatory things about another, much like you might find on bathroom walls in the past or on a Facebook page today. It's a forum for combat and character assassination. I don't believe that it serves the purpose for which it was intended. Instead, it's a breeding ground for ill-will and the fomenting of long-standing adversity between members.
    I absolutely totally completely agree
    LETS GO BRANDON
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Bad faith is the act of being intentionally deceptive. That sounds simple, but it's actually very complex. When people insult others for their opinions and pretend that those opinions are objectively wrong, but in reality simply don't conform to their way of thinking, that is just self-serving deception. Calling someone a liar because their opinion doesn't conform to another's when no one can claim to have all of the facts is bad faith.

    The Hole is an odious place where members often engage in gang warfare or where someone writes inflamatory things about another, much like you might find on bathroom walls in the past or on a Facebook page today. It's a forum for combat and character assassination. I don't believe that it serves the purpose for which it was intended. Instead, it's a breeding ground for ill-will and the fomenting of long-standing adversity between members.

    There's an expression for being intentionally deceptive, being intentionally deceptive, or dissembling, or lying. Why on earth would anyone try to make bad faith mean that? The very fact that your explanation is very complex shows you're stretching things.

    I was the mod who said, hey, we're treating rule violations individually but we have repeat offenders and we should should moderate them more harshly the more they repeat. We needed an expression for that and we said we'll call it posting in bad faith.

    I already said it's more than apparent you don't like the Hole. My complaint is you're playing unnecssary semantics.

    Don't like the Hole, don't go there. Simple.

    Besides serving as a dump for undesirable topics, it's purpose has always been to provide a place to let members blow off steam.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    There's an expression for being intentionally deceptive, being intentionally deceptive, or dissembling, or lying. Why on earth would anyone try to make bad faith mean that? The very fact that your explanation is very complex shows you're stretching things.

    I was the mod who said, hey, we're treating rule violations individually but we have repeat offenders and we should should moderate them more harshly the more they repeat. We needed an expression for that and we said we'll call it posting in bad faith.

    I already said it's more than apparent you don't like the Hole. My complaint is you're playing unnecssary semantics.

    Don't like the Hole, don't go there. Simple.

    Besides serving as a dump for undesirable topics, it's purpose has always been to provide a place to let members blow off steam.
    Words have meaning. Bad Faith:

    In ordinary usage, bad faith is equated with being of "two hearts", or "a sustained form of deception which consists in entertaining or pretending to entertain one set of feelings, and acting as if influenced by another",[1] and is synonymous with double mindedness, with disloyalty, double dealing, hypocrisy, infidelity, breach of contract, unfaithfulness, pharisaism (emphasizing or observing the letter but not the spirit of the law,[14] see Doctrine of absurdity), tartuffery (a show or expression of feelings or beliefs one does not actually hold or possess),[15] affectation, bigotry, and lip service.[16]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Words have meaning. Bad Faith:

    In ordinary usage, bad faith is equated with being of "two hearts", or "a sustained form of deception which consists in entertaining or pretending to entertain one set of feelings, and acting as if influenced by another",[1] and is synonymous with double mindedness, with disloyalty, double dealing, hypocrisy, infidelity, breach of contract, unfaithfulness, pharisaism (emphasizing or observing the letter but not the spirit of the law,[14] see Doctrine of absurdity), tartuffery (a show or expression of feelings or beliefs one does not actually hold or possess),[15] affectation, bigotry, and lip service.[16]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith

    And, again, what has that to do with the purposes of the Hole? It's a place to blow off sream, a place most rules do not apply, a place to dump undesirable topics.

    I was talking about the useage of "bad faith" on this forum.

    You run to dictionary definitions. What does deception have to do with those purposes? People post there because they deceive? Utter nonsense.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    And, again, what has that to do with the purposes of the Hole? It's a place to blow off sream, a place most rules do not apply, a place to dump undesirable topics.

    I was talking about the useage of "bad faith" on this forum.

    You run to dictionary definitions. What does deception have to do with those purposes? People post there because they deceive? Utter nonsense.
    If you are going to question my use of the term "bad faith", you should know that I use it according to its actual meaning, not whatever you want to deem it to mean. Furthermore, you responded to my response to another member who was questioning the rules in the Hole. The stated purpose of the Hole and the ultimate consequences of its usage often stand at cross-purposes, hence the necessity of some rules.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    If you are going to question my use of the term "bad faith", you should know that I use it according to its actual meaning, not whatever you want to deem it to mean. Furthermore, you responded to my response to another member who was questioning the rules in the Hole. The stated purpose of the Hole and the ultimate consequences of its usage often stand at cross-purposes, hence the necessity of some rules.
    We're talking in a particular context defined by the forum and the Hole itself.

    You fail completely to address "What does deception have to do with those purposes? People post there because they deceive? Utter nonsense." In short, while bad faith may have the general meaning you cite, it has not connection with it's usage on the forum nor any applicability to this topic.

    I think what it comes down to is you want a safe space and the Hole offends that desire.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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