No health and fitness data tracking, no insurance. -- John Han$#@!.

[Lummy]

One of America’s oldest insurance companies, John Han$#@!, has its eyes set firmly on the future. With the arrival of Big Data and the now never-ending stream of information that is available to data brokers on individuals in nearly real time, the lure of using it for customer analytics and behavior modification has become irresistible.

According to a recent announcement cited by Reuters, the company is taking the unprecedented step of “selling only interactive policies that track fitness and health data through wearable devices and smartphones.” Previously, John Han$#@! created its interactive policies as a supplement to traditional life insurance, but now the “Vitality” program will encompass ALL policies beginning in 2019, as well as converting old policies to the new model. https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/19/j...ance-policies/

[Lummy]

John Han$#@!. US Constitution. Invasion of privacy. Fourth Amendment. Insurance. Get it?

I don't.

[Dr. Who]

John Han$#@!. US Constitution. Invasion of privacy. Fourth Amendment. Insurance. Get it?

I don't.

Private enterprise, product, contract - get it? Same as health insurers - in fact, the latter was once part of the former. If you are insuring your life, then your lifestyle is relevant information in terms of risk assessment. It's no different than insurers of fleets of transport trucks demanding risk managers and a quantified level of maintenance, driver screening and training etc. to continue to qualify for insurance. Insurance is a contractual relationship - if you don't like it, don't sign the contract.

[Lummy]

If you are insuring your life, then your lifestyle is relevant information in terms of risk assessment. It's no different than insurers of fleets of transport trucks demanding risk managers and a quantified level of maintenance, driver screening and training etc. to continue to qualify for insurance. Insurance is a contractual relationship - if you don't like it, don't sign the contract.

It sure is different. Costs associated with trucking accidents and so forth are preventable. But everyone is going to die. That will never be prevented.

[Common Sense]

John Han$#@!. US Constitution. Invasion of privacy. Fourth Amendment. Insurance. Get it?

I don't.

It's not unconstitutional. No one is forced to use their coverage.

That being said, it's not something I would go for. You'd probably get a good rate if you led a healthy lifestyle though.

Some auto insurance companies are doing similar things with devices that monitor your driving. Again, that's not something I'm interested in. My rates would probably go up.

[Dr. Who]

It sure is different. Costs associated with trucking accidents and so forth are preventable. But everyone is going to die. That will never be prevented.

It's about actuarial calculations. The longer that they can defer death, the more money they make. Taking in premiums for 60 years and then paying out is better than taking in premiums for 40 years and paying out. All insurance is basically the same, it's about calculated risk and investment of premiums before losses have to be paid out. Furthermore, if elderly people no longer have anyone left to take care of, like a spouse or child, they will simply stop paying for life insurance. The longer they live, the more likely that they will eventually cancel their more expensive whole life policies in favor of cheaper funeral expense policies.

[Lummy]

It's not unconstitutional. No one is forced to use their coverage.

That being said, it's not something I would go for. You'd probably get a good rate if you led a healthy lifestyle though.

Some auto insurance companies are doing similar things with devices that monitor your driving. Again, that's not something I'm interested in. My rates would probably go up.

No one has to buy their insurance, of course not. Point is that it's hypocritical and a denigration of their namesake. I found it striking.

[Dr. Who]

It's not unconstitutional. No one is forced to use their coverage.

That being said, it's not something I would go for. You'd probably get a good rate if you led a healthy lifestyle though.

Some auto insurance companies are doing similar things with devices that monitor your driving. Again, that's not something I'm interested in. My rates would probably go up.

Telematics is becoming very popular in auto insurance, for really 'good' drivers. If you are extremely consistent and steady in your driving, you will be rated as a lower risk than someone who frequently abruptly brakes and/or accelerates frequently and changes lanes constantly.

[Common Sense]

No one has to buy their insurance, of course not. Point is that it's hypocritical and a denigration of their namesake. I found it striking.

I don't know that it's hypocrisy. It's a system I'm not for, but that's the free market.

Your initial argument seemed to imply that the practice was unconstitutional. Would you agree that it's not?

[Lummy]

It's about actuarial calculations. The longer that they can defer death, the more money they make. Taking in premiums for 60 years and then paying out is better than taking in premiums for 40 years and paying out. All insurance is basically the same, it's about calculated risk and investment of premiums before losses have to be paid out. Furthermore, if elderly people no longer have anyone left to take care of, like a spouse or child, they will simply stop paying for life insurance. The longer they live, the more likely that they will eventually cancel their more expensive whole life policies in favor of cheaper funeral expense policies.

Well, if I were looking at buying a life insurance policy, I wouldn't much care what their actuarial calculations were. You know doggone well the prices of their products are going to go up anyway, but now they are monitoring you like a rat in a lab so you can pay more for their product. And you know their making money from gleaning your privacy. That is the only reason they're doing it, Mr John Han$#@!.

How about employers? Shouldn't they be monitoring their employees 24/7 just to make sure their sick day isn't really just an avoidable hangover associated with the Sunday football get together in the ol' man cave?