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Thread: Five myths about capitalism

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    Five myths about capitalism

    Commonly capitalism is criticized for being based on greed.

    Five myths about capitalism

    MYTH NO. 1

    Greed, a natural human instinct, makes markets work.

    Adam Smith, the father of economics, first pointed out in his most famous work, “The Wealth of Nations ,” that in vigorously pursuing our own selfish interests in a market system, we are led “as if by an invisible hand” to promote the prosperity of others. Years later, Smith’s theme that capitalism runs on selfishness would find its most famous articulation in a speech by a fictional corporate raider, Gordon Gekko, in the movie “Wall Street”: “Greed . . . is good, greed is right, greed works.” (Defenders of free markets have been desperate to disown the “greedy” label ever since.)

    Smith, however, was never the prophet of greed that free-market cheerleaders have made him out to be. In other passages from “The Wealth of Nations,” and in his earlier work, “The Theory of Moral Sentiments,” Smith makes clear that for capitalism to succeed, selfishness must be tempered by an equally powerful inclination toward cooperation, empathy and trust — traits that are hard-wired into our nature and reinforced by our moral instincts. These insights have now been confirmed by brain researchers, behavioral economists, evolutionary biologists and social psychologists. An economy organized around the cynical presumption that everyone is greedy is likely to be no more successful than one organized around the utopian assumption that everyone will act out of altruism.

    ...
    The problem is a confusion with selfishness. Smith rejected Mandeville's selfish motivation. Smith instead spoke to self-interest: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." See ADAM SMITH: SELFISHNESS OR SELF-INTEREST? for more.

    It was Plato who first associated individualism with egoism (selfishness) and collectivism with altruism. Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies: The spell of Plato refutes that and shows how self-interest is altruistic, similar to Smith.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Smith is probably right.

    I remember in college taking business courses and being taught that companies need to be stakeholders in society otherwise they will fail.

    Then I got out into the real world and saw firsthand that public relations is just an unwanted expense but a necessity and lie, cheat and steal were the real foundation of capitalism.

    Depending on who you are and what your interest is in it, capitalism failed.

    The price of capitalism is born on the backs of the poor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Smith is probably right.

    I remember in college taking business courses and being taught that companies need to be stakeholders in society otherwise they will fail.

    Then I got out into the real world and saw firsthand that public relations is just an unwanted expense but a necessity and lie, cheat and steal were the real foundation of capitalism.

    Depending on who you are and what your interest is in it, capitalism failed.

    The price of capitalism is born on the backs of the poor.

    Sure, the rich get richer faster yet the poor are doing better and better. Global poverty is down dramatically and still plummetting. And while classes remain stable as abstractions, individuals rise up and fall down dynamically. IBM used to run the tech induistry, then Microsoft, now Google. Sears used to be on top, now Amazon.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Sure, the rich get richer faster yet the poor are doing better and better. Global poverty is down dramatically and still plummetting. And while classes remain stable as abstractions, individuals rise up and fall down dynamically. IBM used to run the tech induistry, then Microsoft, now Google. Sears used to be on top, now Amazon.
    Plummeting?

    So if there is some truth to that and maybe there is... I'm not sure, doing a quick search for data there's a ton of.... stuff out there that I guess can make an argument one way or another and I really don't want to get into a debate on that, I think it's more complicated than saying it's rising or falling and beside the point.

    If your criteria on the success of capitalism is wealth generated, regardless of who it goes to and who "pays" for it then I suppose it might be considered a success. I doubt the nations and societies raped by capitalism for their resources would agree or the regions here in the states who are suffering from astronomical rates of cancer and other diseases because of un or poorly regulated pollution standards would also agree.

    I also suppose that if you compared a slow, painful death to a quick painless one then the quick painless one seems optimal. Comparing capitalism to socialism and communism (and yeah, I know, gray area) isn't much different, in virtually all socioeconomic systems there are a majority poor and a minority wealthy in power. Getting $#@!ed over by wealthy white people who toss you better table scraps isn't that ideal when you think about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Plummeting?

    So if there is some truth to that and maybe there is... I'm not sure, doing a quick search for data there's a ton of.... stuff out there that I guess can make an argument one way or another and I really don't want to get into a debate on that, I think it's more complicated than saying it's rising or falling and beside the point.

    If your criteria on the success of capitalism is wealth generated, regardless of who it goes to and who "pays" for it then I suppose it might be considered a success. I doubt the nations and societies raped by capitalism for their resources would agree or the regions here in the states who are suffering from astronomical rates of cancer and other diseases because of un or poorly regulated pollution standards would also agree.

    I also suppose that if you compared a slow, painful death to a quick painless one then the quick painless one seems optimal. Comparing capitalism to socialism and communism (and yeah, I know, gray area) isn't much different, in virtually all socioeconomic systems there are a majority poor and a minority wealthy in power. Getting $#@!ed over by wealthy white people who toss you better table scraps isn't that ideal when you think about it.




    My argument is it goes to everyone, that everyone benefits.


    What nations and societies raped by capitalism? It's rather governments that do that.



    Right, I admit the income gap seems to be increasing, yet, as Kennedy said, all boats rise with the tide. But that difference follows the Pareto Princile, you know, the old 80/20 rule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post



    My argument is it goes to everyone, that everyone benefits.


    What nations and societies raped by capitalism? It's rather governments that do that.



    Right, I admit the income gap seems to be increasing, yet, as Kennedy said, all boats rise with the tide. But that difference follows the Pareto Princile, you know, the old 80/20 rule.
    Right, why is global poverty declining, if that's true? Global capitalism? Or the late industrialization of those nations raped by western resource interests. I think assuming that it's because of capitalism is kind of a stretch.

    Smells like trickle-down tbh and everyone does not benefit. The bearers of the true cost of capitalism that I pointed out earlier do not but it's the shizzle for a select group of old white guys.

    I won't argue that capitalism creates wealth, I believe it does but it does so by taking advantage of a lot of segments. That "everyone benefits" being tossed a few table scraps from one hand and being robbed with the other is, again as I already stated a farce.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Right, why is global poverty declining, if that's true? Global capitalism? Or the late industrialization of those nations raped by western resource interests. I think assuming that it's because of capitalism is kind of a stretch.

    Smells like trickle-down tbh and everyone does not benefit. The bearers of the true cost of capitalism that I pointed out earlier do not but it's the shizzle for a select group of old white guys.

    I won't argue that capitalism creates wealth, I believe it does but it does so by taking advantage of a lot of segments. That "everyone benefits" being tossed a few table scraps from one hand and being robbed with the other is, again as I already stated a farce.
    I'll argue two things. One, the natural state of man is poverty. Nothing, including capitalism makes him poor.

    Two, while not perfect, nothing else has succeeded like capitalism. What raped Nations and societies was mercantilism. Socialism has failed everywhere tried.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I'll argue two things. One, the natural state of man is poverty. Nothing, including capitalism makes him poor.

    Two, while not perfect, nothing else has succeeded like capitalism. What raped Nations and societies was mercantilism. Socialism has failed everywhere tried.
    If so than anything else for that matter aside from capitalism.

    How do you define "failed"? Like capitalism it works well for some at the cost of others.

    Capitalism is succeeding? What was it you were saying in another thread about the GOP taking on more and more debt? Or was that someone else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    If so than anything else for that matter aside from capitalism.

    How do you define "failed"? Like capitalism it works well for some at the cost of others.

    Capitalism is succeeding? What was it you were saying in another thread about the GOP taking on more and more debt? Or was that someone else?

    Capitalism is not a zero-sum game where some gain at the expense of others. It depends on voluntary exchange where people trade what they value less for what they value more, and not just two, but a whole system like what Leonard E. Read describes in "I, Pencil." It's win-win. One gains by producing what others value.

    If as Smith described, capitalism, the free-market, depends on cooperation, empathy and trust, then where are you seeing that doing harm? In someone taking advantage of trust and cheating, swindling people? But that's not cooperation, empathy or trust.

    Describe where you see it working well for some at the cost of others.

    The government, GOP or DNC, is taking on debt. Capitalism isn't the government. The government interferes in capitalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Capitalism is not a zero-sum game where some gain at the expense of others. It depends on voluntary exchange where people trade what they value less for what they value more, and not just two, but a whole system like what Leonard E. Read describes in "I, Pencil." It's win-win. One gains by producing what others value.

    If as Smith described, capitalism, the free-market, depends on cooperation, empathy and trust, then where are you seeing that doing harm? In someone taking advantage of trust and cheating, swindling people? But that's not cooperation, empathy or trust.

    Describe where you see it working well for some at the cost of others.

    The government, GOP or DNC, is taking on debt. Capitalism isn't the government. The government interferes in capitalism.
    I know that's what the textbook says. Textbook capitalism must be fantastic.

    I already did. Appalachia where families live in the disease of poorly regulated coal mining and burning who suffer poverty and sickness because of it. African diamond mines, sweatshops making that neat swish on your shoes... I can rack this up a bit but you should get the picture.

    Nope, both are joined at the hip, like it or not regardless of what the textbook says.
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