Growing Misery Among Girls, Young Women

[Cletus]

They are too afraid of Cletus’s wrath.

The mods have taken action against me as often as they have anyone else. In order for someone to feel your "wrath", you have to possess the power to exercise it. I do not.

Maybe you could tell me rule violation occurred? I expressed an opinion. I think suicide, with few exceptions is a cowardly and selfish act. I think most people who "attempt" it aren't actually trying to kill themselves, at all. They are crying for attention. Most of the reasons given for their attempt just demonstrate a weakness of mind and character. I guess some people don't like to be told that, but that doesn't really matter a whole lot to me.

If the mods feel they need to take action, I am sure they will. Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion?

[Cletus]

No that is not it, it is because he told a potentially suicidal person to off themselves while they were potentially reaching out for help. That person has since cleared things up. So are you trying to troll me here Chris because I stuck up for a person? I thought you were better than that.

It is not what you said ...what a joke "it is because some people are weak", like I would have stood up to him for saying that.....

it is because of this.... Post 144... Post 149

That is what has got your panties in a wad?Those statements were generic and not directed specifically toward Polly, but toward anyone and everyone who uses threats of suicide to get attention or who actually contemplates suicide for some ridiculous, minor real or imagined hurt. The examples I used should have made that clear to anyone smarter than a turnip.

[Ethereal]

The first time I attempted suicide, I was 16. My life in general was pretty miserable at the time, but I'd had this one thing to forward to: getting my driver's license. That would increase my popularity, I figured, so I dedicated myself to the cause. I was the first in my class to get my license. Got a perfect score on the driving test. I came in to school midday just after getting my license and for a day, I was most popular kid in my class. People even circulated my perfect score report sheet thingy across the room in 4th period (English). It was awesome. I was actually proud of myself, and it lasted a while. Though I had no cool car or anything to go along with it, my dad was generous enough to let me use his old heap to get to and from school and I was just grateful to have the option. I drove an average of about 20-30 miles per hour over the speed limit blasted the radio to and fro like I was totally the $#@!. I wasn't, but I felt like I was for a while.

Next though the inevitable happened: my arrogance caught up with me. I got myself in a car wreck. It was my fault too. I just had been absorbed in the song that was playing, driving too fast, and by the time I saw that the car in front of me had come to a complete standstill, it was too late to fully stop. I tried desperately and even tried to swerve off the road to avoid a collision, but it was too late. The people in front of me were fine (no injuries or anything) and their car sustained minimal damage that was easily fixed. They were even nice enough to even settle the matter through insurance rather than attempting a lawsuit. I was physically fine too. But my dad's car was totaled, and it was my fault. Of course there were let's just say physical consequences to pay because that's just the kind of person my dad was (and, to my knowledge, may still be; we haven't spoken in more than 15 years), but I was used to that by then and so to me the more significant consequence was to my (mostly just perceived in retrospect) social life. It all went away. I was a failure in every respect. Failing at home, failing my classes (sometimes for lack of effort, sometimes (in the case of Geometry) legitimately), and now I was back to failing at friends again too. I use a motorbike today for that reason. I don't really care much about my physical safety (obviously). It's more the emotional devastation of that particular memory that I associate was cars and try to avoid.

Shortly after that, I briefly managed to acquire a boyfriend (who never knew about any of this) in my neighborhood, but that ended after exactly six days. He never told me either; just said we weren't together to a group of friends he was walking with and I overheard it. I had made a complete fool of myself falling all over him in public, so I understood.

So anyway, it all just worsened my pre-existing depressive tendencies to a severe point where I felt like I was just a complete failure, a pathetic screw up, and a burden to everyone. And I kind of was too. (I still feel like I'm a burden to people a lot.) I mean make no mistake, I was a terrible kid at that age who would do pretty much anything for (particularly male) attention, I think as compensation for not feeling adequately loved by my dad. (My stepmom hated me too, but I didn't care quite as much about that because, being a horrible kid, I never regarded her as a legitimate parent anyway (always called her by her first name, never "mom", etc.). I also just felt inferior to my younger stepsister, who was my opposite in most of these respects. She was like this model child almost, who seemed interested in everything and to succeed at everything, had normal friendships for her age, and almost never (absolutely never physically that I'm aware of) got punished for anything, and by that point had developed a tendency to rub it in my face, knowing full well that she was favored. Plus, she wasn't even partially gay or anything.

So anyway, long story short(er), I just reached a point of feeling like, of my own doing, I had no future anyway, and feeling like everyone except for maybe my birth mom would be happier if I just died. I weighed the merits of going on for the sake of her and her naive view of how great a daughter she figured me to be from a distance of many state lines, but then I realized that if she did know anything about me beyond the handful of self-serving factoids and exaggerations I had shared with her on our functionally one-day-per-month visitations, she'd hate me too, and would have to find out who I really was eventually anyway. I didn't have access to my dad's guns (which were hunting ones anyway and locked in a safe at all times) and I didn't want death to particularly painful for some reason, so I tried to drown myself in a nearby lake. It was sincere. I wanted to die. I failed though, obviously. After that I just gave up on it for a long because I realized that I couldn't even succeed at killing myself.

There has been a more recent attempt as well, but it's fresh enough in my memory banks that honestly I'd rather not actually discuss it right now.

Thanks for sharing that. It took a lot of courage, especially knowing that some members will try to use it against you.

[Ethereal]

Some people are just weak.

And some people are just coldblooded, callous sociopaths...

[Ethereal]

This is why so many people feel that psychology is a quack science. I have tried everything, okay? Diet, exercise, "forgiveness", sprinkling proverbial pixie dust on myself and thinking happy thoughts, all of it. If you don't think I have -- if you think I just LIKE living like this -- you're nuts. You know very little about my life or relationships. My mom and I are good friends (if I can say that without being judged a dork), for example.

I wish people would just stop prescribing solutions based on absolutely minimal knowledge of my life and just listen for once. That's all I really want. It helps just to know that somebody cares enough to listen.

This is why I talked about the atomization of western society earlier. I believe this is a major factor in depression and anxiety. For millions of years, primates lived in tightly knit groups. Virtually everything was shared among the tribe, including emotional pain. Having constant socialization is what we evolved to expect on a physiological level, but the "civilization" of humanity has increasingly displaced the tribe and alienated the individual. This is why I've become more and more fascinated by "pagan" religion and pre-civilized modes of living. I believe many of the answers to our modern questions lie in our ancient past.

[Ethereal]

There would be a revolt the second a draft is approved.

Exactly why a draft is desperately needed...

[Mister D]

This is why I talked about the atomization of western society earlier. I believe this is a major factor in depression and anxiety. For millions of years, primates lived in tightly knit groups. Virtually everything was shared among the tribe, including emotional pain. Having constant socialization is what we evolved to expect on a physiological level, but the "civilization" of humanity has increasingly displaced the tribe and alienated the individual. This is why I've become more and more fascinated by "pagan" religion and pre-civilized modes of living. I believe many of the answers to our modern questions lie in our ancient past.

I don't doubt the effects of atomization. I've mentioned them many times before but atomization has nothing to do with civilization per se but a particular civilization: our own. It is a distinctly modern and a distinctly liberal phenomenon. The inhabitant of a 16th Century hamlet or town, for example, was not alienated. No, those answers lie in our relatively recent past.

[Chris]

I don't doubt the effects of atomization. I've mentioned them many times before but atomization has nothing to do with civilization per se but a particular civilization: our own. It is a distinctly modern and a distinctly liberal phenomenon. The inhabitant of a 16th Century hamlet or town, for example, was not alienated. No, those answers lie in our relatively recent past.

As recently as the American and French Revolutions the West was in transition.

Most critics of modernity that I read, while they look to the past for what worked, don't seek a return to it, but look to ways to change what's failing now to make for a better future. They reject the notion that we've reached an end to history.

[Adelaide]

If that is the worst you have ever heard, you need to get out more.





You said that already.





Is that why you keep repeating yourself?





I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I am pretty sure "indigence" is not the word you want.





You have never seen suffering. for people like you, suffering is having your pedicurist cancel an appointment. Yes, I have little tolerance for drama queens and new age nutcases. I have seen suffering. I have seen kids sitting in the dirt starving to death, but unlike people like some here, they don't give up and decide they want to off themselves because they broke a fingernail. They keep fighting. They keep hoping. They keep trying. What they don't do is sit around feeling sorry for themselves. Even the worst off in this country has it 100 times better than a big part of the world's population. You would run home crying to Mama if you ever had to see real suffering. Go talk to your crystals or whatever it is you do, but don't even try to lecture me on something you don't know a damned thing about.





I didn't try to hurt anybody. I just called a spade a spade. Everything I said was true. I don't really care a rat's ass whether you like it or not. She has been posting the same kind of hysterical nonsense for years. Unless there is some kind of physiological problem, people who contemplate and or attempt suicide are either doing it for attention (and have no real intention of killing themselves) or are just weak.





Yeah, I should probably go shave my head and join a monastery. I'll get right on that.




People like you don't help anyone. You are enablers. You have probably driven more people to suicide than Jim Jones.

Look here Cletus, what you said to Polly should be enough to get you kicked out of the forum. If anything happens to her you could spend time in prison. Didn't you see that story where the girlfriend told her boyfriend to kill himself, she went to prison. If a person says they are suicidal, you don't have the right to tell that person to just go kill themselves.

You have no idea what you are talking about, if you did you wouldn't be saying the things you do. You are so wrong that there are not even words for it.

You don't understand. I read the other day that when the terror of living is worse than the terror of dying a man will take his life. That is so true. If you don't understand it keep your nasty comments to yourself.

And yes indigence is the correct word it means a state of extreme poverty.

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[Safety]

No that is not it, it is because he told a potentially suicidal person to off themselves while they were potentially reaching out for help. That person has since cleared things up. So are you trying to troll me here Chris because I stuck up for a person? I thought you were better than that.

It is not what you said ...what a joke "it is because some people are weak", like I would have stood up to him for saying that.....

it is because of this.

Post 144







Post 149

The bolded part is where you went wrong.