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Thread: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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    ripmeister's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    Certainly not the snowflake leftie protests. They work great at disgusting normals.
    Good to know where you stand on one of the bedrocks of our country
    One can be sure that he who says he knows knows nothing

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
    This thing we commonly refer to as "The American Experiment"--has it, at last, failed?

    More than 150 years ago, it appeared to have failed, when the country tore itself apart during the Civil War.

    Yet it eventually recovered (albeit with a delayed healing, due to the punitive Reconstruction Era).

    At present, by contrast, we do not have a shooting civil war--not yet, anyway (unless one believes that the shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise--in June of 2017--represents the beginning of such a war).

    But it seems increasingly likely that this could yet occur.

    The left in this country--especially the hard left--no longer believes in due process and the rule of law. In fact, it does not even pretend to.

    It appears to believe, instead, in the rule of the mob.

    In other words: anarchy.

    No, not all liberals--especially not thoughtful ones--fall neatly into this category. Alan Dershowitz, for example--and Jonathan Turley (both top legal minds)--do not fit this mold at all.

    Increasingly, however, the American left--and especially young, passionate people--seem to believe that if they cannot get their preferred way, well, then they ought to turn to mob rule.

    The Bolsheviks of about 100 years ago would have been of them.

    At any rate, it all leads we to wonder: If so many people no longer have faith in our fundamental institutions, are we really far from societal collapse--or else genuine civil war?

    The death warrant was signed in 1913

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    Captdon's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripmeister View Post
    Protest is a fundamental part of our American fabric. Are you opposed to that?
    Protest is fine. What I saw at the Supreme Court was just fine. anti-Fa, never condemned by the left, is not. You can't see the difference?

    What I saw in the hallways was civil disobedience, another American tradition. You can't complain when arrested though. Anti- fa is not acceptable but never talked about by the Democrats.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    Certainly not the snowflake leftie protests. They work great at disgusting normals.
    Everyone has the same rights.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






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    midcan5's Avatar Senior Member
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    There is no hard left - or if you like maybe a very small element of economic lefties. What is ruining the American Experiment is money and its control over the society and its people. It does this by managing the dialogue and creating imaginary divisions, the 'hard left' is one of them. Read read read.
    Understand America today:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...lyover-country
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...their-own-land
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...nvisible-hands
    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27833494-dark-money


    ================== My take on Topic =======================

    I wrote below many years ago, I tried to revise it but never completed that task. It may be a good sleep aid too. I bolded key words.

    Is the new conservatism a threat to democracy ?

    Politics is moving right based largely on religious and cultural issues. Right wing partisans stress these differences for political advantage. The conservative foundations and think tanks (Bradley, Smith Richardson, Scaife, CATO, Heritage, AEI) provide money and training for those who accept and propagate their partisan point of view. Their point of view rewrites history and is primarily about anti-liberalism and what they perceive as its faults. Liberalism's faults can be summed up as big government and cultural openness. According to conservative think tanks (CTT) big government wants to control our lives and resources. Its main tools for control are taxes and law. Government stands in the way of corporate freedom by regulation and requirements. Corporate freedom or the free market is the god of the new elitist right. The elitist right are those who through birth are in the upper classes. Inherent in this juxtaposition of business and government purposes is a tension that allows propaganda to maintain focus: if something works business was responsible, if something fails government caused it. CTT goal is to reduce or remove government except to maintain the states' internal and external security. Government comes to function for the new corporatism.

    How it happens:

    Moderates will be removed from political office in favor of a candidate who better follows the new corporatism. Bush rather than McCain. In Pennsylvania Specter was labeled a liberal but still won, this will change as labels become more fixed. Santorum represents the new right, notice it is not what he does but what he says that matters. This distinction will not be broadly understood in the future.

    Moderates are removed from court appointments at all levels. Consider Thomas and Scalia's narrow interpretation of the constitution. Many ideologues have been blocked but some have passed into the system. The function of law shifts from attempts at justice to laissez faire market and tacit religious guidelines. Roberts and Miers are recent right wing elitist ideologues.

    History is revised. History is forgotten. He who controls the present controls the past he who controls the present controls the future. All the positives of liberalism or government are removed, negatives are assigned instead. What follows does not matter, if a new policy fails it is the lingering remains of the past and that past needs constantly to be countered. History never stabilizes as the growth of the corporation must always attain new markets and new powers.

    Diversity will not be recognized except in class structures and then only tacitly. The CTT support the further dissolution of the new deal and great society to strengthen and increase their power. With no cushion workers are forced to accept any wage. States vie for corporate offerings and modify tax codes and environmental polices to support corporatism.

    Main stream media (msm) remains neutral or is owned by the right wing corporate powers. Media becomes, you see this already today, a partner of the corporate political structure. In an effort at fairness and balance all news is presented without criticism, while this gives the appearance of truth it allows a confusion of priorities so that partisan spokesmen define the issues. Constant repetition of policy statements or supporting doctrine becomes standard. Truth is a not an issue. Doubt becomes a norm of all comment. Terrorism becomes the background for all policy actions until a replacement foe is required.

    Life and thus politics and all public action is staged. Bush's appearances today are performance, consider for instance Social Security. There is no specific administration plan but there is lots of media attention. This distracts and reflects but it never clarifies. Reasons remain hidden or do not matter as it is only the performance of opposing forces that occupies viewers. When ideas are promoted without questions truth does not matter, all that is necessary is that you put an idea into the mediasphere. Repeated often enough it becomes true. The conservative blogosphere, supported by CTT, hammers away at any idea that contradicts the new elitist corporatism. Consider only the switch in the rhetoric of the SS debate to 'but you don't have plan.'

    Generational knowledge and shared values are lost, education and emigration no longer function as unifying tools. As history is revised the base of youth change and they do not learn or know the past. Schools become more conservative as funding goes to voucher systems and schools with diverse points of view are marginalized. Students learn revisionist history. Already today conservative youth repeat the CTT interpretations. Recent examples, the Great Depression was caused by government control. Joseph McCarthy was unfairly castigated by the left. Foreign conflicts were lost because of opposing ideologies. Focus centralizes on the values of the elitist conservatives only. All actions are viewed through a narrow self congratulatory perspective.

    Tax structure changes so that only the rich can maintain and improve their positions in society. Statistically you already stay pretty much where you start, that diminishes more as the separation between rich and poor increases. Faith based initiatives are tax supported but linked to cultural requirements further stifling dissent. Help is marginal as the workforce is still required for corporatism and the lack of support feeds into common economic fear and insecurity. In a Walmart universe your options for advancement are limited. Past work patterns of working your way up are gone as technical jobs go overseas. The threat of out sourcing mitigates dissent.

    Religion is introduced into politics through a change of the focus of law and a prohibition of cultural freedoms. Abortion, porn, and offensive language are the issues that are spot lighted in the corporate elitist press. There is no place for critical issue discussion as cultural issues dominate discussion. Of course these taboos are never conquered and the fight is modeled after the war on drugs or terror. This war remains essential to thought control. Organizations such as the ACLU are weakened but left intact as the enemy. Demonization of the other must remain as part of religious and corporate power and political control. Common enemies form cohesion.

    Dissent is further diminished but should never be totally defeated. As an example consider the liberal media of today, it does not exist but it is essential that the myth be maintained. This creates a tension between what is reported and what should be reported. If the news is good it is accepted if the news is bad it is the liberal media. Bad news or truth can then be ignored. False information is spun out into the mediasphere and it is then referenced as true as it has now become written word. CTT supported radio and blogs further propagate this tension.

    International relations are based on laissez faire and fear. While this sounds contradictory it offers corporatism the flexibility to shift and change. If negative change is required, say loss or shift of jobs, reasons can easily be derived from conditions. Conditions and knowledge are controlled so reasons can be hidden. Fear and security, good and evil become the dichotomies of all thinking for the public. Things could always be worse. Obviously everything is switchable when information is controlled.

    Religious and Corporate elements blend finally and work becomes duty and honor. Unions are totally abolished as they stand in the way of corporate/religious dictates. Finally work becomes a blessing and a gift so that belief comes to manage the work force as it manages the ideas of the right today. Job is grace not a right of citizens. Poor pay is no longer considered unfair. Anyone who disagrees does not respect your religion or some other category made important. CTT funds the propaganda machines that perpetuate these myths now truths.

    Government ceases to function for its citizens and functions marginally for security and primarily to serve Corporatism. Liberty, justice, fairness, equality, tolerance, cooperation, concerned citizenship are no longer American values.

    American democracy is lost

    Is there a future for American democracy. What stage are we in? Those who lived through Reagan/Bush in Corporate America recognize the beginnings of this scenario. I would imagine that had you lived through the great depression you may have questioned your country's ability to work for the common citizen. But FDR and a bipartisan group of people who cared more about America than about money came into power and used their abilities to make it work again. Otherwise the disparities grow and eventually the supporting structures will become that of a second rate nation. Deficit spending and the military industrial complex come to dominate government economics. The loss of industry to other nations based on labor cost continues. The tension between different views for society still exist but without a diverse education steeped in history it is difficult to get beyond simple partisan issues. When politics and economics become belief it is outside the purview of rational analysis. The rich, of course, will move, they care only for money and banks are international. And let's admit it, if you can afford a house anywhere the French Riviera is beautiful.
    It was a wonderful experiment while it lasted.
    Wanna make America great, buy American owned, made in the USA, we do. AF Veteran, INFJ-A, I am not PC.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." Voltaire

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    Hoosier8's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripmeister View Post
    Good to know where you stand on one of the bedrocks of our country
    Bad behavior is the bedrock of our country? Go figure.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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    ripmeister's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier8 View Post
    Bad behavior is the bedrock of our country? Go figure.
    Sometimes bad behavior is necessary. The original tea party comes to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripmeister View Post
    Sometimes bad behavior is necessary. The original tea party comes to mind.
    That was civil disobedience.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by midcan5 View Post
    There is no hard left - or if you like maybe a very small element of economic lefties. ...

    Right, you all are just moderates.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Right, you all are just moderates.
    Well, here I actually agree with midcan. There really is no hard left. OTOH, there is no hard right either. There is a great deal of ideological conformity in the US and we shouldn't let all the bickering mislead us. It's like I've told, Polly. No one believes in socialism anymore. The market is accepted. So is the welfare system. This is why what passes for a left these days spends most of their time talking about race, homos and transgender freaks.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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