Goodbye, Columbus Day

[Mister D]

For those who might interested this is a great example of how popular historians use and abuse evidence.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...=Gavin+menzies

[Chris]

First of all, Columbus did discover America. By "discover", historians do not mean he was the first to lay eyes on the Americas. What they mean is that his "discovery" was the only such discovery that is historically relevant because he communicated his discovery to the rest of the world. This was the beginning of truly global exchange networks. Yes, do know the Vikings settled Greenland and part of the Canadian coast but the Viking discovery is historically irrelevant. It makes for good reading. It's a great adventure story but is not comparable to the Columbian voyages because it was of no historical import.

Now that's the history. Now let's deal with the fantasy and amateurism. No, Africans did not sail to the Americas and there are no statues of black people anywhere in Central America. One would be wise to research what actual specialists think about these claims. No, there is no evidence that the Chinese ever discovered America despite what popular historian Gavin Menzies claims. Green Arrow was lauding his book a while back and I like Green Arrow so I broke the news gently to him: Menzies' work is deeply flawed. It's better than black Olmec statues but that's not saying much. Again, one would be wise to research what actual scholars think about such claims.

"This was the beginning of truly global exchange networks" is exactly right.

[Peter1469]

"This was the beginning of truly global exchange networks" is exactly right.

exactly

[Dr. Who]

First of all, Columbus did discover America. By "discover", historians do not mean he was the first to lay eyes on the Americas. What they mean is that his "discovery" was the only such discovery that is historically relevant because he communicated his discovery to the rest of the world. This was the beginning of truly global exchange networks. Yes, do know the Vikings settled Greenland and part of the Canadian coast but the Viking discovery is historically irrelevant. It makes for good reading. It's a great adventure story but is not comparable to the Columbian voyages because it was of no historical import.

Now that's the history. Now let's deal with the fantasy and amateurism. No, Africans did not sail to the Americas and there are no statues of black people anywhere in Central America. One would be wise to research what actual specialists think about these claims. No, there is no evidence that the Chinese ever discovered America despite what popular historian Gavin Menzies claims. Green Arrow was lauding his book a while back and I like Green Arrow so I broke the news gently to him: Menzies' work is deeply flawed. It's better than black Olmec statues but that's not saying much. Again, one would be wise to research what actual scholars think about such claims.

Many scholars are highly attached to maintaining the historical (European) status quo. People were traversing even greater distances by sea in the distant past. The distance between S. America and Africa is ridiculously short. To assume that neither Africans nor S. American's could have sailed across is silly. The distance from Scandinavia to Newfoundland is not much shorter and the Vikings were not exactly an advanced society . The N. Atlantic trip would have been far more perilous. Evidence of African artifacts have been found all over S. America. This simply doesn't fit a certain Eurocentric view of history.

[Chris]

exactly

The next major historical step involved the Manila Galleons, the round trip from Acapulco to Manilla and back.

[Mister D]

Many scholars are highly attached to maintaining the historical (European) status quo. People were traversing even greater distances by sea in the distant past. The distance between S. America and Africa is ridiculously short. To assume that neither Africans nor S. American's could have sailed across is silly. The distance from Scandinavia to Newfoundland is not much less and the Vikings were not exactly an advanced society and the N. Atlantic trip would have been far more perilous. Evidence of African artifacts have been found all over S. America. This simply doesn't fit a certain Eurocentric view of history.

Yes, it's all a racist conspiracy to deny Africans their rightful place. You go with that.

BTW, that comment about the pyramids... That's Ancient Aliens kook stuff.

[Common]

Many scholars are highly attached to maintaining the historical (European) status quo. People were traversing even greater distances by sea in the distant past. The distance between S. America and Africa is ridiculously short. To assume that neither Africans nor S. American's could have sailed across is silly. The distance from Scandinavia to Newfoundland is not much shorter and the Vikings were not exactly an advanced society . The N. Atlantic trip would have been far more perilous. Evidence of African artifacts have been found all over S. America. This simply doesn't fit a certain Eurocentric view of history.

The question isnt distance, the question is could africans have the know how to build ships that could traverse that distance.

This is all about liberals trying to rewrite ALL of history to their liking.

[Mister D]

The next major historical step involved the Manila Galleons, the round trip from Acapulco to Manilla and back.

Peruvian silver and Mexican gold found its way into Indian and Chinese treasuries.

[Peter1469]

Many scholars are highly attached to maintaining the historical (European) status quo. People were traversing even greater distances by sea in the distant past. The distance between S. America and Africa is ridiculously short. To assume that neither Africans nor S. American's could have sailed across is silly. The distance from Scandinavia to Newfoundland is not much shorter and the Vikings were not exactly an advanced society . The N. Atlantic trip would have been far more perilous. Evidence of African artifacts have been found all over S. America. This simply doesn't fit a certain Eurocentric view of history.

Vikings were not an advanced society, but their were advanced sailors and navigators.

[Peter1469]

Yes, it's all a racist conspiracy to deny Africans their rightful place. You go with that.

BTW, that comment about the pyramids... That's Ancient Aliens kook stuff.

Hey, watch it with that Ancient Aliens stuff.