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Thread: Americans Strongly Dislike PC Culture

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Largely PC is a major issue in our universities. Much less of a problem in the real world.
    Exactly.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    If I may say so without being accused of "making it personal", Chris, you seem to have, as here, a penchant for seeing contradictions where none exist. Yes, both left and right have their shibboleths and taboos - that's true. Some people take them way too seriously - also true. Where, exactly, is the contradiction?
    In you all's criticism of the right's denial followed by you all's dismissal of PC as unimportant. That should have been clear. Nothing personal at all. It was posts I commented on.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    C'mon, this is civility? (from multiple sources)

    1. Throughout several US councils and organizations, any terms using the word 'man' as a prefix or suffix have been ruled as not being politically correct. 'Manhole' is now referred to as a 'utility' or 'maintenance' hole.


    2. A school in Seattle renamed its Easter eggs 'spring spheres' to avoid causing offence to people who did not celebrate Easter.


    3. In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were banned from saying 'Ho Ho Ho'. Their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), allegedly told all trainees that 'ho ho ho' could frighten children, and be derogatory to women. Why ? Because 'Ho Ho Ho' is too close to the American (not Australian, mind you) slang for prostitute.


    4. Some US schools now have a 'holiday tree' every at Christmas, rather than a Christmas tree.


    5. Students Debate Removing Famous MLK Quote Because it Isn’t Gender Inclusive - Martin Luther King Jr.’s famous “I Have a Dream” speech in Washington in 1963 has been hailed as one of the greatest speeches in American history, featuring the line, “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” But according to National Review, student leaders at the University of Oregon considered removing that quote, which has been displayed on a wall at a student center since 1985, because it does not address discrimination based on gender identity. According to the campus newspaper, the student leaders eventually decided not to remove the quote after some “hard thought.”


    6. College Bans Term ‘Freshman,’ Claiming it Promotes Rape - North Carolina’s Elon University banned the term “freshman,” saying it is sexist and might promote sexual violence. The preferred term used in new student orientations and on the college’s website is “first-year.”


    7. Seattle Police Can’t Use Word ‘Suspects’ in Reports -- Seattle Police Department officers who fill out reports can no longer use the word “suspect.” Instead, they must use the term “community member.” The change, first reported by Seattle media in early 2017, has upset many police officers, who must use the term even in “use of force” reports. After three officers were shot responding to an armed robbery in April, they were required to refer to the shooter as a “community member.” “I think this is all in an effort to make sure our report writing sounds politically correct,” Seattle Police Officers’ Guild Kevin Stuckey told KIRO 7 TV.


    8. Princeton University Bans Use of ‘Man’ -- Many people would agree that there are certain words and phrases where “man” might not be the best fit. For example, terms such as businessman, fireman, policeman and spokesman can easily be replaced by businessperson, firefighter, police officer and spokesperson to reflect the fact that women also perform those roles. These words have become an accepted part of our culture. But Princeton University is taking the “man” removal mission to another level. According to thecollegefix.com, Princeton’s HR department in 2016 issued a four-page memo banning the use of “man.” So instead of the phrase, “man and wife,” faculty members are expected to use “spouses” or “partners.” “Manmade” becomes “artificial,” “workmanlike” becomes “skillful,” and “layman” should be replaced by “non-specialist.”


    9. Doctors’ Group Discourages Use of Term ‘Expectant Mother’ -- The U.S. isn’t the only country where political correctness has spiraled out of control. The British Medical Association told its members in 2017 that the term “expectant mother” should be avoided because it might offend transgender people. Instead, the preferred term is “pregnant people.” But women’s rights activist Laura Perrins told the Daily Mail the action is ”anti-science, anti-women and anti-mother … This will offend women up and down the country, and is an example of the majority of women being insulted for a tiny minority of people.”


    10. University Bans Use of Phrase ‘Politically Incorrect’ - In 2015, the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee declared the phase “politically incorrect” as taboo. “Over time PC has become a way to deflect, say that people are being too ‘sensitive,’ and police language,” reads a poster created by the university’s Inclusive Excellence Center. “It is disconnected from authentic understanding of impact.” Use of the PC term is considered a microaggression at the university.


    11. Teacher’s Course Claims Math is a ‘Dehumanizing Tool’ - In the summer of 2017, middle-school math teachers can take an online course entitled “Teaching Social Justice through Secondary Mathematics.” According to CampusReform.org, the concepts include recognizing that, “For centuries, mathematics has been used as a dehumanizing tool,” and “math is a powerful tool for advocacy or oppression.” The six-week course, developed by Teach for America and offered through EdX, also explores “Mathematical Identity,” which “raises the issue that when we think of renowned mathematicians, many of us reference educated Western white males.”

    Maybe this is why empires fall. Because we get side tracked with such non problem problems and find slaves and now machines to do the physical work.
    In short first world problems are for $#@!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    In you all's criticism of the right's denial followed by you all's dismissal of PC as unimportant. That should have been clear. Nothing personal at all. It was posts I commented on.
    That was not really any clearer than the first time, Chris. Again, the right is every bit as concerned about people saying and doing certain things in an "unacceptable" or non-PC way as the left is, collectively speaking, and yet they continue to insist that "being PC" is entirely a liberal phenomenon. That's one thing. In addition to that, people of all political persuasions, but especially conservatives - remember that 97% number cited in the OP - often take the whole PC thing way too seriously. As Peter noted, it's largely a university thing and rarely involves or affects the real world. (At this point, most people would simply stop and admit that they were a bit quick on the trigger when they attempted to make it appear that Polly and I had somehow contradicted ourselves. Hands of those who think Chris will do that...?)
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard

    "Only a rank degenerate would drive 1,500 miles across Texas and not eat a chicken fried steak." - Larry McMurtry

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    I think that it is going too far in a lot of ways.

    My goal is just to be respectful to other human beings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standing Wolf View Post
    That was not really any clearer than the first time, Chris. Again, the right is every bit as concerned about people saying and doing certain things in an "unacceptable" or non-PC way as the left is, collectively speaking, and yet they continue to insist that "being PC" is entirely a liberal phenomenon. That's one thing. In addition to that, people of all political persuasions, but especially conservatives - remember that 97% number cited in the OP - often take the whole PC thing way too seriously. As Peter noted, it's largely a university thing and rarely involves or affects the real world. (At this point, most people would simply stop and admit that they were a bit quick on the trigger when they attempted to make it appear that Polly and I had somehow contradicted ourselves. Hands of those who think Chris will do that...?)

    I wasn't saying anything about who is PC, both are.

    I was commenting on you all's claiming the right is in denial about it, that and your dismissing it as unmportant. That's denial.

    Let's just say you don't get it. Why would you.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    I think that it is going too far in a lot of ways.

    My goal is just to be respectful to other human beings.


    I think that's a confusion about what PC means. It's not about being nice or respectful. It's about controlling language and what people are allowed to say freely.

    "Political Correctness" Is About Control, Not Etiquette

    ...If PC truly was about kindness and respect, it wouldn’t need to be imposed on us. After all, we already have a mechanism for the social cohesion PC is said to represent: it’s called manners. And we already have specific individuals charged with insuring that good manners are instilled and upheld: they’re called parents.

    Political Correctness Defined

    But what exactly is PC? Let me take a stab at defining it: Political correctness is the conscious, designed manipulation of language intended to change the way people speak, write, think, feel, and act, in furtherance of an agenda.

    PC is best understood as propaganda, which is how I suggest we approach it. But unlike propaganda, which historically has been used by governments to win favor for a particular campaign or effort, PC is all-encompassing. It seeks nothing less than to mold us into modern versions of Marx’s un-alienated society man, freed of all his bourgeois pretensions and humdrum social conventions.

    Like all propaganda, PC fundamentally is a lie. It is about refusing to deal with the underlying nature of reality, in fact attempting to alter that reality by legislative and social fiat. A is no longer A.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Want an example? Go to this thread and listen to West talk: http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...in-Oval-Office

    He's talking about liberals saying this is racist, this is racist, this is racist. The liberal, he says, will try to control the black person through the concept of racism. If I, he goes on, say I like Trump, the liberal will say but he is racist--you think racism controls me!?!?!

    What he's talking about is PC.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I think that's a confusion about what PC means. It's not about being nice or respectful. It's about controlling language and what people are allowed to say freely.

    "Political Correctness" Is About Control, Not Etiquette
    My goal is to be respectful to other human beings. That means being considerate, which includes considering what another person might find offensive. I would never use the word "retard", for example. I try to respect whatever pronouns a person wants to be identified with, although there are some where I simply don't know the preference. I try to avoid calling women things that are patronizing. On, and on. I try to be respectful - as in me, myself - and conform to many things considered to be PC that I just view as being considerate. But I would not really expect that of everyone else, although I see no reason why some people seem hell-bent on purposely not being politically correct to just make a point.

    I have little tolerance for the moves to rewrite history, which is simply not possible. Removing names or statutes... depends on the situation. It is horrible that slavery was once an acceptable, normal practice in society, but that doesn't mean that the early presidents should be written out of history. Same for Canadian PMs involved in the mistreatment of aboriginals. We learn from history, we grow as a society, but it doesn't change the enormous contributions that some people have made while doing what was considered "normal" for the time they were influential. I live in DC and there are plenty of things named after confederates and it reminds me of the history, about the things the country has gone through, about things that have changed for the better - I think maybe that is a good thing.

    But yeah, it is about being respectful and considerate at least to a degree. What is currently happening with safe spaces and all that bull$#@!, that is the PC part that is ridiculous and goes too far. On a personal level, I think things would be fine if everyone just tried to be considerate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
    My goal is to be respectful to other human beings. That means being considerate, which includes considering what another person might find offensive. I would never use the word "retard", for example. I try to respect whatever pronouns a person wants to be identified with, although there are some where I simply don't know the preference. I try to avoid calling women things that are patronizing. On, and on. I try to be respectful - as in me, myself - and conform to many things considered to be PC that I just view as being considerate. But I would not really expect that of everyone else, although I see no reason why some people seem hell-bent on purposely not being politically correct to just make a point.

    I have little tolerance for the moves to rewrite history, which is simply not possible. Removing names or statutes... depends on the situation. It is horrible that slavery was once an acceptable, normal practice in society, but that doesn't mean that the early presidents should be written out of history. Same for Canadian PMs involved in the mistreatment of aboriginals. We learn from history, we grow as a society, but it doesn't change the enormous contributions that some people have made while doing what was considered "normal" for the time they were influential. I live in DC and there are plenty of things named after confederates and it reminds me of the history, about the things the country has gone through, about things that have changed for the better - I think maybe that is a good thing.

    But yeah, it is about being respectful and considerate at least to a degree. What is currently happening with safe spaces and all that bull$#@!, that is the PC part that is ridiculous and goes too far. On a personal level, I think things would be fine if everyone just tried to be considerate.

    Right, all that's well and good, but not PC.

    Take West's example when he says he likes Trump and is told Trump's racist trying to control him. That's PC. Politiness is not a part of that.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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