you will understand why our democracy is being wrecked.

[Peter1469]

So you do not care about a democracy? You can be both a republic and a democracy you know.

Our Founders called democracy rule of the mob and did everything possible to prevent it.

Does this help?

[Just AnotherPerson]

Our Founders called democracy rule of the mob and did everything possible to prevent it.

Does this help?

Our founders loathed democracy. It was a sham from the beginning. They sold a somewhat quazi democracy to the people, but amongst themselves they loathed it, and gave forth a faux quazi democracy to have power and control over the masses. This whole damn thing was built on a lie.

[Chris]

When I am asked questions like this it is a trolling tactic. Normally you don't troll me. But today seems different. We got off on a bad foot and you are going all out.

The super wealthy pay politicians to do their bidding. The super wealthy donate to the presidents, and they tell them what policies to put forth, and if they want power, and they want the donations to keep coming, they do it. As per our current president, he just happens to be one of those corporate peeps himself, and he also has his ideologies and agendas that he wants to put forth. We are dealing with a whole new ball game. One of the small time chump change puppet masters is in the highest seal of our nation. You know how it works.

They took control with power and money. Not to mention voting is a lie, it is rigged. Our votes don't count, and mega corps pay to see to it that it stays that way. This is the truth no longer a hidden one either, it is common knowledge. You know exactly how it works. You are just giving me a trolling response, so that you can blast me on something else depending on what I say as an answer. I have been through this all before.

Please stop the BS. No one is trolling you.

The super wealthy pay politicians to do their bidding.

Thank you. It's called rent seeking.

But wait, that means the government sold us out to the highest bidder. I mean, in order for people to rent seek government favors, the government first has to be powerful enough to grant favors and then it has to sell out the people.

So we agree, the government sells us out and the rich rent seek its favors. Not just the rich, of course, for anyone can organize and collect money to use for rent seeking, corporations, unions, and other lobbies.


Next question: How do you stop it?

You speak of donations, how would you stop donations? What about lobbying the government? How would you stop that?

[Peter1469]

Our founders loathed democracy. It was a sham from the beginning. They sold a somewhat quazi democracy to the people, but amongst themselves they loathed it, and gave forth a faux quazi democracy to have power and control over the masses. This whole damn thing was built on a lie.

No it was not. The Founders were very clear. They gave us a constitutional republic. They never teased people with democracy.

[Chris]

No it was not. The Founders were very clear. They gave us a constitutional republic. They never teased people with democracy.

Right, what they feared and loathed was majoritarian, mob rule democracy. Like they saw in the French Revolution. Like we see in the left nowadays.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Please stop the BS. No one is trolling you.




Thank you. It's called rent seeking.

But wait, that means the government sold us out to the highest bidder. I mean, in order for people to rent seek government favors, the government first has to be powerful enough to grant favors and then it has to sell out the people.

So we agree, the government sells us out and the rich rent seek its favors. Not just the rich, of course, for anyone can organize and collect money to use for rent seeking, corporations, unions, and other lobbies.


Next question: How do you stop it?

You speak of donations, how would you stop donations? What about lobbying the government? How would you stop that?

so duh, that is the same thing I said. I am a no BS person by the way. Well sometimes, its not a sure thing. ;)
So of course the government sold us out.

I have answered this question many times. I have even talked to you about it on several occasions. We no longer allow them to do it, and only elect those who will not do it. This can be made to happen. I know you have already told me your views on this so I know your answers. I appreciate them, and understand them, I just don't agree with them. Because I believe we can do it right, by the people for the people.

We stop it by putting our foot down. It is corruption. I would say anyone caught accepting donations, and all that be exiled. It should be considered treason. If they know they will get exiled if they do it they might think twice.

[Chris]

so duh, that is the same thing I said. I am a no BS person by the way. Well sometimes, its not a sure thing.
So of course the government sold us out.

I have answered this question many times. I have even talked to you about it on several occasions. We no longer allow them to do it, and only elect those who will not do it. This can be made to happen. I know you have already told me your views on this so I know your answers. I appreciate them, and understand them, I just don't agree with them. Because I believe we can do it right, by the people for the people.

We stop it by putting our foot down. It is corruption. I would say anyone caught accepting donations, and all that be exiled. It should be considered treason. If they know they will get exiled if they do it they might think twice.

Of course it's what you said. I said "So we agree, the government sells us out and the rich rent seek its favors."

As to how we stop that, you answer:

We no longer allow them to do it....

How, by increasing the size, scope and power of the government. That would only make it all the more a target for rent seeking. Power corrupts.

...and only elect those who will not do it.

I immediately think of the movie Mr Smith Goes to Washington. He was elected for being uncorruptibl but soon learned just how corrupt the system is. Fiction? I doubt it.

We stop it by putting our foot down. It is corruption. I would say anyone caught accepting donations, and all that be exiled. It should be considered treason. If they know they will get exiled if they do it they might think twice.

Which would increase the size, scope and power of the government. That would only make it all the more a target for rent seeking. Power corrupts.

Catch 22.

I know you have already told me your views on this so I know your answers. I appreciate them, and understand them, I just don't agree with them.

My answer is to reduce the size, scope and power of the government. That would make it less a target for rent seeking, less capable and culpable of corruption.

[Just AnotherPerson]

Of course it's what you said. I said "So we agree, the government sells us out and the rich rent seek its favors."

As to how we stop that, you answer:



How, by increasing the size, scope and power of the government. That would only make it all the more a target for rent seeking. Power corrupts.



I immediately think of the movie Mr Smith Goes to Washington. He was elected for being uncorruptibl but soon learned just how corrupt the system is. Fiction? I doubt it.



Which would increase the size, scope and power of the government. That would only make it all the more a target for rent seeking. Power corrupts.

Catch 22.



My answer is to reduce the size, scope and power of the government. That would make it less a target for rent seeking, less capable and culpable of corruption.

I haven't been responding to anything properly today because I was busy working. But on my breaks here and there I checked in and said a few things. So I am off of my game today.

I never mentioned increasing government. I am just not an anarchist. I see the value in government if done properly. You just have the idea, and are not willing to even think that there is another way, because it is not what you have as an ideal in your mind. It is like that with those who are buying our gov. They have an ideal, and they don't want to compromise. I am willing to compromise. But I cannot agree with anarchy. I am not against smaller gov, in fact I am on board with that idea, to a degree.

Instead of telling me what I think, and how I am wrong, if you really have an idea that you think trumps mine. Then just explain it completely, and say why you have those views. That is the best way to get others to understand you, and be able to see where you are coming from. Baiting them with trick questions does not bring productive debate. Neither does telling a person what they believe, when it is not what they believe. Instead of things like that explain what you believe and say why. You never know how it might impact another person. There might be certain aspects that they agree with.

I for one, may not completely agree with all of your ideas but that does not mean I disagree with all of them. There might be things that I think are actually very genius, or very good. You never know. There is proper dialogue, and proper dialogue can spread awareness, and enlighten others minds. Just say what you feel from your heart, you never know what effect it can have on others, and the whole world. I personally appreciate reading or listening to others ideas. I think it helps us to grow. We always take something away when someone shares their ideas and ideals.

I do believe it is possible to do gov right. If everyone else agrees then we would make it happen. We would excommunicate those caught committing treason against our nation. I don't see a problem with that. A little exile can go a long ways. But I am willing to listen to your full ideas. I am on board with that. I will listen, lets communicate properly.

[DGUtley]

Citizens United was after the Tea Party exploded. You really misunderstand C.U. Have you ever read the decision? When we lawyers read it, we say: ‘duh!’ Read it. Then let’s discuss it.

I will I’ll join you in a Constitutional amendment if you agree to ban Union politicking as well as COrporations.

[Chris]

I haven't been responding to anything properly today because I was busy working. But on my breaks here and there I checked in and said a few things. So I am off of my game today.

I never mentioned increasing government. I am just not an anarchist. I see the value in government if done properly. You just have the idea, and are not willing to even think that there is another way, because it is not what you have as an ideal in your mind. It is like that with those who are buying our gov. They have an ideal, and they don't want to compromise. I am willing to compromise. But I cannot agree with anarchy. I am not against smaller gov, in fact I am on board with that idea, to a degree.

Instead of telling me what I think, and how I am wrong, if you really have an idea that you think trumps mine. Then just explain it completely, and say why you have those views. That is the best way to get others to understand you, and be able to see where you are coming from. Baiting them with trick questions does not bring productive debate. Neither does telling a person what they believe, when it is not what they believe. Instead of things like that explain what you believe and say why. You never know how it might impact another person. There might be certain aspects that they agree with.

I for one, may not completely agree with all of your ideas but that does not mean I disagree with all of them. There might be things that I think are actually very genius, or very good. You never know. There is proper dialogue, and proper dialogue can spread awareness, and enlighten others minds. Just say what you feel from your heart, you never know what effect it can have on others, and the whole world. I personally appreciate reading or listening to others ideas. I think it helps us to grow. We always take something away when someone shares their ideas and ideals.

I do believe it is possible to do gov right. If everyone else agrees then we would make it happen. We would excommunicate those caught committing treason against our nation. I don't see a problem with that. A little exile can go a long ways. But I am willing to listen to your full ideas. I am on board with that. I will listen, lets communicate properly.

When you say "I would say anyone caught accepting donations, and all that be exiled." I take it you mean the government catching and exiling government officials.

I'd asked you how you would do it. If you have some non-governmental way, then by all means, explain.

I haven't argued what you claim: "I am just not an anarchist." I argued for reducing the size, scope and power of the government.


I'm no genius. I do try to be genuine.

I do believe it is possible to do gov right. If everyone else agrees then we would make it happen. We would excommunicate those caught committing treason against our nation. I don't see a problem with that. A little exile can go a long ways. But I am willing to listen to your full ideas. I am on board with that. I will listen, lets communicate properly.

That somewhat similar to my argument for what I call localism. What Catholics call subsidiarity. Basically self-government, bottom up from neighborhoods on up. Power would reside at the bottom, dispersed among the people, out of reach of rent seekers.