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Thread: you will understand why our democracy is being wrecked.

  1. #41
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    Chris's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
    But the right has the power now!
    Elected power.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
    But the right has the power now!
    And they are largely just a bit to the right of the left. Not much. They are still spending like drunken sailors.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Crepitus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    You're clueless about the decision.
    So you admit you can't. That's a good first step.
    People who think a movie about plastic dolls is trying to turn their kids gay or trans are now officially known as

    Barbie Q’s

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crepitus View Post
    So you admit you can't. That's a good first step.
    No. I Acknowledge that you are a moron.

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    Just AnotherPerson's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
    I believe the Citizens United decision will be remembered as one of the most destructive decisions in supreme court history. One could argue it led to this;

    Super Pacs, Dark money, The Tea Party, tea party candidates who are crazy, corrupt, anti democracy puppets of the rich. The destruction of the Republican moderate. It may have led to the election of Trump.

    A single person can now give a billion dollars to a party if they want to. So can a single corporation, organization. That is not compatible with democracy. It opened the door to foreign money. It created loopholes you could drive a truck through.

    Citizens United was a 5/4 decision. All five republican judges voted yes. Here is one of their arguments they made in favor of Citizens United. You may need a drink after reading this.

    "Although the government has the authority to prevent corruption or the appearance of corruption, it has no place in determining whether large political expenditures are either of those things, so it may not impose spending limits on that basis." HUH?

    That argument contradicts itself. That argument is a lie. They $#@!ing lied. Why? Everyone knows unlimited money going to campaigns leads to corruption. Someone or something made them lie. They knew exactly what they were doing.

    Citizens United and democracy are not compatible. One will have to go. The American people will have to decide which one soon.

    https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211275300
    Citizens United is a crime against every citizen of the United States of America. Our democracy had been hi-jacked. Citizens United is the end of democracy. We need to end this corruption!
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    What's destroying "democracy" is attitudes of exclusion like that one. If you don't agree with liberals then you're crazy etc. You're wrecking what you believe in.

    CU helped turn government for sale into government OPENLY for sale. An amendment for public funding of elections for 5 or 6 parties at really low levels would level the playing field stop the two from cramming their propaganda down the public's throat. Forcing the voters top do actual research!

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    CU helped turn government for sale into government OPENLY for sale. An amendment for public funding of elections for 5 or 6 parties at really low levels would level the playing field stop the two from cramming their propaganda down the public's throat. Forcing the voters top do actual research!
    My point was how someone advocating democracy was excluding groups they didn't like.

    CU did nothing of the sort. That happened during the Progressive Era when companies and corporations realized they could get things done by petitioning the government to pay for it with taxes. For example, before that, river levis were build by the companies that profited from them; then those companies said wait we're protecting the people so let's ask the government to pay for it. Road to perdition paved with good intentions.

    The corruption problem isn't with money to fund campaigns, it lies with politicians in power selling favors to rent seekers. The idea that you can somehow control elections in such a way that good politicians will get elected is nonsense. In order to stop the corrupt you need to reduce the size and scope of the government.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

  9. #48
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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    My point was how someone advocating democracy was excluding groups they didn't like.

    CU did nothing of the sort. That happened during the Progressive Era when companies and corporations realized they could get things done by petitioning the government to pay for it with taxes. For example, before that, river levis were build by the companies that profited from them; then those companies said wait we're protecting the people so let's ask the government to pay for it. Road to perdition paved with good intentions.

    The corruption problem isn't with money to fund campaigns, it lies with politicians in power selling favors to rent seekers. The idea that you can somehow control elections in such a way that good politicians will get elected is nonsense. In order to stop the corrupt you need to reduce the size and scope of the government.

    How can you say that the money to fund campaigns, campaigns so expensive they exclude 3rd parties, isn't part of the corruption. That's ridiculous. I've never seen you say anything so ..... out there.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    How can you say that the money to fund campaigns, campaigns so expensive they exclude 3rd parties, isn't part of the corruption. That's ridiculous. I've never seen you say anything so ..... out there.
    Because the problem is with politicians in power. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely--Lord Acton.

    That and perhaps the commodification of politics. It's costly to run for office because of the great power at stake.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    Citizens United is a crime against every citizen of the United States of America. Our democracy had been hi-jacked. Citizens United is the end of democracy. We need to end this corruption!
    Not true. Citizens United only removed the limit to free speech 60 days before a general election and 30 days before a primary.

    SpeachNow.org vs. FEC removed in the DC court of appeals removed the spending limit.

    Spending buckets of money certainly didn’t help Hillary.
    When Donald Trump said to protest “peacefully”, he meant violence.

    When he told protesters to “go home”, he meant stay for an insurrection.

    And when he told Brad Raffensperger to implement “whatever the correct legal remedy is”, he meant fraud.

    War is peace.

    Freedom is slavery.

    Ignorance is strength.

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