Socialist and Libertarian Alliance?

[Ethereal]

I recently read this article in Foreign Policy: Socialists and Libertarians Need an Alliance Against the Establishment:LINK

The article argues in favor of an alliance between socialists and libertarians on foreign policy. Specifically, on reducing the extravagant spending on foreign militarism. This will allow socialists and libertarians more wiggle room to compromise on their domestic differences over economics. The massive savings from reducing "national security" spending will allow socialists to strengthen entitlement programs while allowing libertarians to pursue tax relief and deficit reduction. It's a win-win situation for both sides. The same logic would apply to spending on the US police state, specifically, the regressive drug war, which has cost taxpayers about $1 trillion in direct revenues, to say nothing of all the indirect costs that come with ruining millions of lives needlessly. I think this is a good, practical idea and the perfect example of a reasonable compromise between two sides that don't agree on everything.

[Chris]

The two are opposites.

Rothbard tried it in the 60s, a fusion of the anti-war Old Right and anti-war New Left, but grew disillusioned. One idea they experimented with was corporate liberalism. See https://c4ss.org/content/12938.

[midcan5]

That's kinda interesting but I wonder how many Americans define themselves as socialists and even libertarians are not that great in number. The labels appeal more to the young and a few old hippies. But I haven't read it yet. Be back if it strikes a cord.


"In 1929 Federal, state, and municipal governments accounted for about 8 percent of all economic activity in the United States. By the 1960s that figure was between 20 and 25 percent, far exceeding that in India, a socialist country. The National Science Foundation reckoned that federal funds were paying for 90 percent of research in aviation and space travel, 65 percent in electrical and electronic devices, 42 percent in Scientific Instruments, 31 percent in machinery, 28 percent in metal alloys, 24 percent in automobiles, and 20 percent in chemicals." William Manchester "The Glory and the Dream"

[Cthulhu]

Why ally with socialism at all?

Nazis were socialists. United Soviet Socialist Republic comes to mind. Socialists have a rather large body count. I'll pass on becoming bedfellows with murderers.

[Captain Obvious]

Why ally with socialism at all?

Nazis were socialists. United Soviet Socialist Republic comes to mind. Socialists have a rather large body count. I'll pass on becoming bedfellows with murderers.

America was capitalistic, we know how that went.

I don't get the point of this also, what do voters think?

Alliance?

I still think at the end of the day the super wealthy and privileged will still be super wealthy and privileged, bombs will be made and there will be aggression.

Alliances among thieves.

[Chris]

America was capitalistic, we know how that went.

I don't get the point of this also, what do voters think?

Alliance?

I still think at the end of the day the super wealthy and privileged will still be super wealthy and privileged, bombs will be made and there will be aggression.

Alliances among thieves.

IOW, the wealthy will always rent seek favors from the powerful under any stateful system.

[Ethereal]

Why ally with socialism at all?

To achieve political objectives that are central to libertarian ideology.

Nazis were socialists. United Soviet Socialist Republic comes to mind. Socialists have a rather large body count. I'll pass on becoming bedfellows with murderers.

I'm pretty sure Bernie Sanders hasn't murdered anyone.

[IMPress Polly]

I think it's a neat idea! I mean honestly I think that people may be defining these terms pretty generously these days (I mean if we're suggesting that Bernie Sanders is an authentic socialist and Rand Paul and authentic libertarian, for example), but no matter how you define them, an anti-war right-left alliance seems like something that's plausible here, at least in theory. It's something I witnessed happen to some extent, in fact, in the 2000s when the Iraq War was considered the major and defining issue of the day.

Still, I think it's tough to really excite people about the issue of militarism in today's context wherein nearly all of the troops that we had stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan and such have been brought home. If you look at the polls, foreign policy currently ranks among the lowest-priority issues that people plan to vote on in the upcoming midterm elections. People are more driven by domestic issues like health care and gun policy and immigration policy right now when it comes to their politics. Save for a situation wherein another all-out war presents itself as a clear and imminent danger, like the prospect of invading Iraq did beginning in 2002, it's difficult to foresee a situation wherein foreign policy would interest the average American more than domestic issues. Even I'm more interested in domestic policies right now, to tell you the truth. I mean, honestly, right now I'm actually more concerned about the prospect of us withdrawing our small measure of military support for the Kurds in Syria and about aggressions that we're indirectly supporting (like Saudi Arabia's brutalization of Yemen) than I am about the prospect of us getting properly involved in something like another Iraq War. And therein lies the challenge of forging such an alliance in the current historical context: how do you get people to see an address of American imperialism as a priority issue that necessitates such an alliance at a time like this?

[Green Arrow]

@Ethereal, I have long favored and proposed such an alliance, the trouble is I don’t think it can ever happen. Exhibits A and B:

The two are opposites.

Rothbard tried it in the 60s, a fusion of the anti-war Old Right and anti-war New Left, but grew disillusioned. One idea they experimented with was corporate liberalism. See https://c4ss.org/content/12938.

Why ally with socialism at all?

Nazis were socialists. United Soviet Socialist Republic comes to mind. Socialists have a rather large body count. I'll pass on becoming bedfellows with murderers.

[Green Arrow]

To achieve political objectives that are central to libertarian ideology.



I'm pretty sure Bernie Sanders hasn't murdered anyone.

He’s just biding his time until he can gain power, that’s when he puts REAL socialism, teh ebil kind, into action.