Unmarried sexual relations

[pjohns]

Here, I think, is an interesting question:

From a Christian standpoint--not from a contemporary societal standpoint, but from a purely Christian standpoint--is it always immoral to have sexual relations outside of marriage?

Most people, I believe, will reflexively answer "yes."

But is that actually the case?

True, Paul does condemn "fornication," as many English versions have it.

Two thoughts come to mind, however:

First, unmarried sex, in the first century--long before any reliable methods of birth control were formulated--often led to unwanted pregnancies. And the father often abandoned the mother, thereby causing serious problems.

Moreover, the word "fornication" is a translation of the Greek word porneia (from which we get pornography). It is generally defined, by the lexicons, as sexual immorality (which begs the question: What, exactly, does this include; and what does it exclude?).

And it is closely associated with "reveling" and "carousing"--what we would nowadays refer to as partying.

But it is very difficult to imagine that a couple--perhaps even a longtime couple--is "partying" when they express love in a physical manner.

Thoughts?

[roadmaster]

Yes and the ones who did were chastised for it. The Bible is clear on this.

[Peter1469]

Here, I think, is an interesting question:

From a Christian standpoint--not from a contemporary societal standpoint, but from a purely Christian standpoint--is it always immoral to have sexual relations outside of marriage?

Most people, I believe, will reflexively answer "yes."

But is that actually the case?

True, Paul does condemn "fornication," as many English versions have it.

Two thoughts come to mind, however:

First, unmarried sex, in the first century--long before any reliable methods of birth control were formulated--often led to unwanted pregnancies. And the father often abandoned the mother, thereby causing serious problems.

Moreover, the word "fornication" is a translation of the Greek word porneia (from which we get pornography). It is generally defined, by the lexicons, as sexual immorality (which begs the question: What, exactly, does this include; and what does it exclude?).

And it is closely associated with "reveling" and "carousing"--what we would nowadays refer to as partying.

But it is very difficult to imagine that a couple--perhaps even a longtime couple--is "partying" when they express love in a physical manner.

Thoughts?

The prohibition likely resulted from early concepts of property rights as they applied to women in society.

[pjohns]

Yes and the ones who did were chastised for it. The Bible is clear on this.

But were they "chastised" merely because unmarried sexual relations led, inevitably, to the very real possibility of unwanted children?

And does porneia really refer to something beautiful--rather than to something ugly? (The lexicons--e.g. Thayer and Arndt-Gingrich--do not seem to support that view.)

[roadmaster]

But were they "chastised" merely because unmarried sexual relations led, inevitably, to the very real possibility of unwanted children?

And does porneia really refer to something beautiful--rather than to something ugly? (The lexicons--e.g. Thayer and Arndt-Gingrich--do not seem to support that view.)

I believe the KJV is the Word of God and I don't need to go back to the Greek. So you can play word games all you want. You are trying to justify something He clearly said not to do.

[Peter1469]

I believe the KJV is the Word of God and I don't need to go back to the Greek. So you can play word games all you want. You are trying to justify something He clearly said not to do.

What about the criticisms of the KJV by other bible scholars?

[Common Sense]

I believe the KJV is the Word of God and I don't need to go back to the Greek. So you can play word games all you want. You are trying to justify something He clearly said not to do.

There are documented mistranslations in the King James Bible. They were, after all, translations by mere men.

[roadmaster]

Most of these so called Christians that bring up, "you have to go back to the Greek" I can speak the language. They couldn't even have a conversation in Greek much less a sentence.

[roadmaster]

There are documented mistranslations in the King James Bible. They were, after all, translations by mere men.

Whatever, it's the Living Word of God. That claim was debunked years ago.

[Common Sense]

Whatever, it's the Living Word of God. That claim was debunked years ago.

The mistranslations weren't debunked...but I understand you're passionate about this, so I'll leave it at that.