One question, how much power did corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, scientific, or guild associations, have?
One question, how much power did corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, scientific, or guild associations, have?
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
Huh?
What's irrelevant?In any case, it's irrelevant.
What else could I have meant?If by contradistinction you mean that fascism served as a safeguard against socialism and communism, yes.
I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion. It seems pretty clear that Mises considered both fascism and Bolshevism to be highly illiberal. The fact that he considered fascism a lesser evil does not imply that fascism is somehow a "liberal, bourgeois movement". Nowhere in that quote did I read anything approaching those words.Yes, that might be true but that's not the point. It appears that the Left's perception of fascism as a reactionary and ultimately liberal, bourgeois movement was shared by the right or at least shared by Mises.
Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
--John Adams
Fascism is national socialism. And the most infamous proponent of fascism in Europe - Hitler - was overly hostile towards international capitalism, which he considered to be a Jewish conspiracy.
The only meaningful differences between you and a fascist like Hitler is that you're not a racist and you're not a nationalist. Other than that, you're basically the same - that is, you're both collectivists and authoritarians.
That's not what corporatism is. And when the fascists took power in Italy and Germany, they were quick to impose controls on the market. National SOCIALISM demands it.Fascism never has been anti-market, fascism is corporatavist. Corporations and business are the most important thing for them.
Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
--John Adams
When he wrote it is irrelevant and, like I said, no one rushes to tell us that FDR made positive comments about fascism before the war.
Then you were restating what was obvious. OK. I wasn't sure.
It seems patently obvious that Mises perceived fascism as a liberal reaction to the crisis of capitalism. He was of course wrong but my only intention here was to remark upon the similarity between reactions to fascism across the spectrum.
Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.
~Alain de Benoist
With liberalism (individualiasm + democracy + capitalism) failing at the time, given the Great Depression and all, it’s easy to see why even Mises saw fascism possibly succeeding in the west by force with communism rising in the east.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
No, liberals do not support fascism. Fascism is a form of socialism, not liberalism.
No, it's not a fact. It's just your uninformed opinion.That is a fact.
You hate anyone who believes in the legitimacy of private property rights. The concept of economic liberty is anathema to you.For some reason I hate Hayek and company and I consider them miserables.
Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
--John Adams
I had only come across the quote yesterday and most the online commentary was about how it is misused to portray Mises as pro-fascist which can only be done by taking the red font out of context.
I think what you describe is true but meaningless to your average person. The man who still has his farm, or his shop, his apartment complex etc isn't doing the bidding of the state and I would imagine he considered his property protected by the regime.
Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.
~Alain de Benoist
Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.
~Alain de Benoist
Chris (11-19-2018)
Why is it irrelevant?
Assuming this is true (it's not), what is it supposed to prove?...and, like I said, no one rushes to tell us that FDR made positive comments about fascism before the war.
Where did Mises say that fascism was a "liberal reaction to the crisis of capitalism"? Or that fascism was a "liberal, bourgeois movement"? Those are not his words, but yours.It seems patently obvious that Mises perceived fascism as a liberal reaction to the crisis of capitalism.
Your interpretation of his words is puzzling to say the least.He was of course wrong but my only intention here was to remark upon the similarity between reactions to fascism across the spectrum.
Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
--John Adams
He sure wasn't pro-fascist but could well have mistaken it for a liberal movement, or hoped so, in opposition to communism.
None of those system were imaginable without liberalism.
You're right, the average Italian probably felt liberated economically and proud nationally, just like the average German under pre-war Nazism.
Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler
Mister D (11-19-2018)