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Thread: Mises on Fascism

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    Mises on Fascism

    Repression by brute force is always a confession of the inability to make use of the better weapons of the intellect — better because they alone give promise of final success. This is the fundamental error from which Fascism suffers and which will ultimately cause its downfall. The victory of Fascism in a number of countries is only an episode in the long series of struggles over the problem of property. The next episode will be the victory of Communism. The ultimate outcome of the struggle, however, will not be decided by arms, but by ideas. It is ideas that group men into fighting factions, that press the weapons into their hands, and that determine against whom and for whom the weapons shall be used. It is they alone, and not arms, that, in the last analysis, turn the scales.
    So much for the domestic policy of Fascism. That its foreign policy, based as it is on the avowed principle of force in international relations, cannot fail to give rise to an endless series of wars that must destroy all of modern civilization requires no further discussion. To maintain and further raise our present level of economic development, peace among nations must be assured. But they cannot live together in peace if the basic tenet of the ideology by which they are governed is the belief that one's own nation can secure its place in the community of nations by force alone.
    It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error.
    I encountered this quote while reading yesterday afternoon and it sheds some light on how fascism was perceived by liberal and left contemporaries. I included the full quote because you would run the risk of distorting Mises' view if you didn't. He was not a proponent or apologist for fascism. That said, the text in red is enlightening. It appears that fascism was widely believed to have been a liberal reaction intended to preserve private property and the market.
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    That was written in 1927, so it was before Europe turned into a giant slaughterhouse.

    His comments on fascism should be viewed in contradistinction to the "communist" movements that were also vying for power across Europe.

    In the view of Mises, fascism was the lesser evil. Yet, in his mind, still an evil. And this was something that most people across the west would have agreed with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That was written in 1927, so it was before Europe turned into a giant slaughterhouse.

    His comments on fascism should be viewed in contradistinction to the "communist" movements that were also vying for power across Europe.

    In the view of Mises, fascism was the lesser evil. Yet, in his mind, still an evil. And this was something that most people across the west would have agreed with.
    We could say the same for FDR and his comments about fascism but some of us don't rush to point that out. In any case, it's irrelevant.

    If by contradistinction you mean that fascism served as a safeguard against socialism and communism, yes.

    Yes, that might be true but that's not the point. It appears that the Left's perception of fascism as a reactionary and ultimately liberal, bourgeois movement was shared by the right or at least shared by Mises.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I encountered this quote while reading yesterday afternoon and it sheds some light on how fascism was perceived by liberal and left contemporaries. I included the full quote because you would run the risk of distorting Mises' view if you didn't. He was not a proponent or apologist for fascism. That said, the text in red is enlightening. It appears that fascism was widely believed to have been a liberal reaction intended to preserve private property and the market.
    Exactly that it was fascism. As it has been many times, fascism is the liberal reaction to keep the market. Fascism never has been anti-market, fascism is corporatavist. Corporations and business are the most important thing for them.
    WORK AND FIGHT FOR THE REVOLUTION AND AGAINST THE INJUSTICE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That was written in 1927, so it was before Europe turned into a giant slaughterhouse.

    His comments on fascism should be viewed in contradistinction to the "communist" movements that were also vying for power across Europe.

    In the view of Mises, fascism was the lesser evil. Yet, in his mind, still an evil. And this was something that most people across the west would have agreed with.
    Of course that liberals will support fascism. That is a fact. For some reason I hate Hayek and company and I consider them miserables.
    WORK AND FIGHT FOR THE REVOLUTION AND AGAINST THE INJUSTICE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kilgram View Post
    Exactly that it was fascism. As it has been many times, fascism is the liberal reaction to keep the market. Fascism never has been anti-market, fascism is corporatavist. Corporations and business are the most important thing for them.
    No, I don't think that's accurate. I think it's obviously wrong in hindsight. You also aren't using the term corporatism correctly at least not in this context. It does not refer to big business.

    That said, I thought the Mises quote was interesting even if that interpretation is badly outdated.
    Last edited by Mister D; 11-19-2018 at 04:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I encountered this quote while reading yesterday afternoon and it sheds some light on how fascism was perceived by liberal and left contemporaries. I included the full quote because you would run the risk of distorting Mises' view if you didn't. He was not a proponent or apologist for fascism. That said, the text in red is enlightening. It appears that fascism was widely believed to have been a liberal reaction intended to preserve private property and the market.
    I don't read the line, "The victory of Fascism in a number of countries is only an episode in the long series of struggles over the problem of property," as Mises saying Fascism preserved private property, especially since the next victory over it would be the Communists, and ultimately a struggle of ideas. Mises, Liberalism, wrote "The program of liberalism, therefore, if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property, that is, private ownership in the means of production." And I don't think he missed Fascism or Communism as being antiliberal.

    I do believe he was fascinated with the successes of Fascism in Europe, saving, for a time, at least, its civilization. It was a common belief shared even by FDR and others. However, mistaken, even Mises.

    Then again, Hayek cited in Road German philosophers prior to WWII who said similar to Mises that even if these ideas, Fascist ideas, didn't win victory militarily, they would in the battle of ideas. We do see ever a movement toward central planning of everything from the economy to personal lives.


    A couple sources: https://mises.org/wire/mises-fascism-again, https://mises.org/library/mises-fasc...ther-questions.
    Last edited by Chris; 11-19-2018 at 04:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilgram View Post
    Exactly that it was fascism. As it has been many times, fascism is the liberal reaction to keep the market. Fascism never has been anti-market, fascism is corporatavist. Corporations and business are the most important thing for them.
    You're conflating modern corporations with corporatism.

    "Corporatism is the organization of a society by corporate groups, such as agricultural, labour, military, scientific, or guild associations, on the basis of their common interests."

    Here is a more detailed description of corporatism under fascism: Fascism

    Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.
    It is anti-liberal free markets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I don't read the line, "The victory of Fascism in a number of countries is only an episode in the long series of struggles over the problem of property," as Mises saying Fascism preserved private property, especially since the next victory over it would be the Communists, and ultimately a struggle of ideas. Mises, Liberalism, wrote "The program of liberalism, therefore, if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property, that is, private ownership in the means of production." And I don't think he missed Fascism or Communism as being antiliberal.

    I do believe he was fascinated with the successes of Fascism in Europe, saving, for a time, at least, its civilization. It was a common belief shared even by FDR and others. However, mistaken, even Mises.

    Then again, Hayek cited in Road German philosophers prior to WWII who said similar to Mises that even if these ideas, Fascist ideas, didn't win victory militarily, they would in the battle of ideas. We do see ever a movement toward central planning of everything from the economy to personal lives.


    A couple sources: https://mises.org/wire/mises-fascism-again, https://mises.org/library/mises-fasc...ther-questions.
    I do think the quote suggests that fascism was the response of the monied classes to the crisis of capitalism. I'm not sure how else to reconcile a term like "emergency make shift" if Mises did not believe that the fascists intended to preserve the current order. The ultimate victory of communism, as I understand it, would be over fascism or what Mises calls a resort to "brute force" and "repression" because they are not ultimately sustainable. The struggle over property rights, IOW, is one the fascists will ultimately lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    I do think the quote suggests that fascism was the response of the monied classes to the crisis of capitalism. I'm not sure how else to reconcile a term like "emergency make shift" if Mises did not believe that the fascists intended to preserve the current order. The ultimate victory of communism, as I understand it, would be over fascism or what Mises calls a resort to "brute force" and "repression" because they are not ultimately sustainable. The struggle over property rights, IOW, is one the fascists will ultimately lose.
    It could well be as you interpret it, never thought about it before seeing this. I'm not so sure fascism saved the rich as much as the entire nation. Private property was left alone as long as you did the bidding of the government. It put the nation first, as I understand it.

    At the time there was capitalism, fascism, nazism and communism. Capitalism was seen as crumbling under the Great Depression.
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