Moral vs. Legal Rights

[nic34]

I've asked the mods to remove the garbage from Cigar. Please don't respond to it.

That's right, we don't want too diverse conversations around here.....

[Chris]

I have a question for you. How could the two precepts of justice be so indifferent, yet having one be so impactful on the other? Most of the artificial legal law here in the US is based in some way or another off of moral religious law, namely from Christianity. But since there has been a sudden animus towards natural moral law in this country, I doubt the two could coexist much longer; and they do coexist, just in a one sided symbiotic kind of way.

It is? Way I see it is Christian law and legal law may be both based on moral law, but neither is the source. Moral law is, per the Declaration, based on the Laws of Nature and Nature's God. Here is Rothbard on the matter, from The Ethics of Liberty:

The believer in a rationally established natural law must, then, face the hostility of both camps: the one group sensing in this position an antagonism toward religion; and the other group suspecting that God and mysticism are being slipped in by the back door. To the first group, it must be said that they are reflecting an extreme Augustinian position which held that faith rather than reason was the only legitimate tool for investigating man's nature and man's proper ends. In short, in this fideist tradition, theology had completely displaced philosophy. [3] The Thomist tradition, on the contrary, was precisely the opposite: vindicating the independence of philosophy from theology and proclaiming the ability of man's reason to understand and arrive at the laws, physical and ethical, of the natural order. If belief in a systematic order of natural laws open to discovery by man's reason is per se anti-religious, then anti-religious also were St. Thomas and the later Scholastics, as well as the devout Protestant jurist Hugo Grotius. The statement that there is an order of natural law, in short, leaves open the problem of whether or not God has created that order; and the assertion of the viability of man's reason to discover the natural order leaves open the question of whether or not that reason was given to man by God. The assertion of an order of natural laws discoverable by reason is, by itself, neither pro- nor anti-religious.[4]

Consider, for example, the discussion of Sodom and Gomorrah we had recently. Jesus said one thing, Jude another. I would venture Jesus, even if only the Jeffersonian one, conformed more to moral law than Jude.

[Chris]

That's right, we don't want too diverse conversations around here.....

Not the point, nic, see the rules: "Moderation of these rules and guidelines with be lighter under forum areas "The Political Forums" and "Politics and News", but will be stricter under "Other Discussions" where more serious discussion is expected." This discussion falls under Other Discussions.

[Alif Qadr]

Cigar is not alone in his mindless partisanship. I took it out on him this morning but it is depressing how low the level of political discussion has fallen in this country. It's almost as if we are rooting for rival football teams.

There is definitely a correlation between the partisan mentality and the level of games of competition the adherents view and participate in. This is a really sad state of affairs.

[Chris]

Cigar just gave me negative reputation for this post...what?

He's got no rep power, so it's pointless as he is in his legalisms (trying to keep to topic, lol).

[RightWingExtremist]

RWE,
My personal opinion of the situation is that for a long time in this country, there has been a move to remove all vestiges of anything and everything moral from the lexicon and collective psyche of the US. From the posturing and position of so-called ethics into laws and statutes in the 1980's and 1990's to outright hostility towards anything exhibiting a moral compass.
Ethics are defined as A SYSTEM or branch of moral philosophy, limiting morality to theory instead of what it used to be known as, which is a sound and solid foundation governing human interaction(s). This is a part of moral relativism, in my opinion. Then again, I am an extremist because I believe in morals and principles that are based in NATURAL LAW. To me, Natural Law are laws that are apparent and not manufactured such as an appellate court decision or a Supreme Court decision, also known as "case law".

See, there I go again digressing. . .

Welcome to the club buddy, religious types like us are becoming more of an outcast in this "tolerant" country we now live in today. I can remember (even in my limited age) when the ACLU defended religious liberty, using artificial legal law. But alas, it is becoming not so these days.

[Mister D]

That's right, we don't want too diverse conversations around here.....

If by "diverse" we mean random, off topic personal attacks, correct. This isn't the place for that.

[Chris]

Isn't funny how quick they recite the rules

In a thread about moral and legal rules reciting rules is not intended to be funny. All those rules amount only to the request to be rational.

[RightWingExtremist]

It is? Way I see it is Christian law and legal law may be both based on moral law, but neither is the source. Moral law is, per the Declaration, based on the Laws of Nature and Nature's God. Here is Rothbard on the matter, from The Ethics of Liberty:



Consider, for example, the discussion of Sodom and Gomorrah we had recently. Jesus said one thing, Jude another. I would venture Jesus, even if only the Jeffersonian one, conformed more to moral law than Jude.

You bring up a good point. But from what I see, our laws have more to do with the morality that was set forth in the Bible (yeah I know, kinda drifting a bit off topic here). To prove my position: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor (perjury under oath, perpetrating hoaxes and the like are illegal) Thou shalt not steal (all types of theft are outlawed here) Thou shalt not kill (murder is illegal). All sorts of case law and/or public law has been fashioned in some way by using these three commandments as a template. I cant help but see a pattern.

[RightWingExtremist]

Of course those with none $#@! and whine like you do.

Please

Let us not poison this thread with responses to that puerile imp. I've only been here a few days, but I am aware of an ignore function that exists in your account settings. Might I suggest we all try it?

(To clarify, the puerile imp I refer to is Cigar)

That is all.