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Thread: How Liberal Policy Keeps Black Kids From Succeeding

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    The fact they're not all the same is part of the point here with local control of standards. As I explained in the previous thread, different schools trying different standards leads to find those that work with certain kids in different situations. Schools can then learn from each other and try standards that worked elsewhere. In time stardards evolve. None of that is possible in a centrally planned, one-size-fits-all federal program. You're just missing the point.
    The fact that there is a federal standard only creates a minimum baseline which many schools cannot manage to achieve. People talk about teaching to the test - guess what, the teachers are not privy to the test. They have a curriculum that minimally must be met. Comparing the successes of Charter Schools to Public Schools is a good exercise. What works best in term of achievement in either should be adopted. Many charter schools have two teachers per class - a senior teacher and a junior who both work with students. Many charter schools have smaller class sizes. The intent should be to find the best methodology that has the most proven rate of success, not politicizing education. Countries that have proven achievement have figured out what works. That should be the agenda, not whose team has the best ideas.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The fact that there is a federal standard only creates a minimum baseline which many schools cannot manage to achieve. People talk about teaching to the test - guess what, the teachers are not privy to the test. They have a curriculum that minimally must be met. Comparing the successes of Charter Schools to Public Schools is a good exercise. What works best in term of achievement in either should be adopted. Many charter schools have two teachers per class - a senior teacher and a junior who both work with students. Many charter schools have smaller class sizes. The intent should be to find the best methodology that has the most proven rate of success, not politicizing education. Countries that have proven achievement have figured out what works. That should be the agenda, not whose team has the best ideas.
    Ill speak for NJ not only do teachers have the test not long after school starts, they give the kids the answers before they take the test and STILL many of them fail the damn thing as unbelievable as that is.

    Doc theres alot more to failing schools than money, the teachers and the buildings.

    The environment those kids live in, their parents or lack of and peer pressure.

    When i worked in the alternative school, I would take kids in the school bus to feed them, because they would come to me and tell me they were hungry, they came to school hungry, dressed worse than a dog with mange, had one girl came to school in pajamas I said why are you here in pajamas, she said I didnt have any clothes and didnt want to stay home. Look I could go on and on, I called dyfs countless times, thats jerseys Division of Youth and Family Services.

    The female vice principal of the alternative school called a mother to talk to her about her daughter constantly coming to school hungry, and unwashed and unkempt and this is HS kids the woman went nuts on the phone and threatened the VP and came to the school high and was going to atttack her, we stopped her got her arrested.

    Theres so many factors to failed schools and kids graduating that cant do the simplest math, whats the point of giving them a diploma other than it adds to your positive stats.
    LETS GO BRANDON
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    The same could be said about Universities many of those are chartered <for Profit> and they are most of the best. Actually they beat state Univs and colleges hands down.
    The wealthiest country on the planet should be able to meet the federal standard by trying to exceed it. Whatever needs to change in order to achieve it should be explored. If you operate from the perspective that apart from the learning disabled, every child can readily learn information, then it just comes down to teaching skills, notwithstanding ensuring children are being fed enough to be able to learn. This has been proven time and time again. Interested students learn.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The wealthiest country on the planet should be able to meet the federal standard by trying to exceed it. Whatever needs to change in order to achieve it should be explored. If you operate from the perspective that apart from the learning disabled, every child can readily learn information, then it just comes down to teaching skills, notwithstanding ensuring children are being fed enough to be able to learn. This has been proven time and time again. Interested students learn.
    Doc money is not the answer, they get PLENTY OF OUR MONEY, how much money are we going to throw at this, liberals have been screaming about bad schools for decades and for decades weve given them more and more money and here ware 40 yrs later saying the same things are the problem, shouldnt that tell us that we are approaching this all wrong.

    Doc ive seen it first hand and I hear it from my girls, there are many kids not interested they dont try, they dont engage they dont come to school enough days a year to pass.

    Schools cant change bad parents, bad singlemothers bad boyfriends, addicted people not caring for their kids, peer pressure in minority schools is huge, ah whats the sense of banging this all around again.

    Doc 10 yrs from now it will be the same, then 10 more cant change in school what parents or lack of do at home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The fact that there is a federal standard only creates a minimum baseline which many schools cannot manage to achieve. People talk about teaching to the test - guess what, the teachers are not privy to the test. They have a curriculum that minimally must be met. Comparing the successes of Charter Schools to Public Schools is a good exercise. What works best in term of achievement in either should be adopted. Many charter schools have two teachers per class - a senior teacher and a junior who both work with students. Many charter schools have smaller class sizes. The intent should be to find the best methodology that has the most proven rate of success, not politicizing education. Countries that have proven achievement have figured out what works. That should be the agenda, not whose team has the best ideas.

    What you fail to explain is how some elite central planners in an office in DC know what students all over the country need in terms of standards. You simply assume one-size-fits-all. But you can't explain how that is possible.

    Teachers teach to the test. Schools are privy to the sorts of things tested.

    "What works best in term of achievement in either should be adopted" is not possible in public schools given federal dictates.

    Yes, many charter schools are better, more teachers, smaller class sizes, etc--none of which poublic schools can vary.

    "The intent should be to find the best methodology that has the most proven rate of success" which is done in charter schools but not possible in politicized public schools.

    You cannot apply what works in another country to all schools because the students and circumstances and so much more differ.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The wealthiest country on the planet should be able to meet the federal standard by trying to exceed it. Whatever needs to change in order to achieve it should be explored. If you operate from the perspective that apart from the learning disabled, every child can readily learn information, then it just comes down to teaching skills, notwithstanding ensuring children are being fed enough to be able to learn. This has been proven time and time again. Interested students learn.
    And exactly what is wrong with public schools. People behind desks in DC thinking they know how it works.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    Ill speak for NJ not only do teachers have the test not long after school starts, they give the kids the answers before they take the test and STILL many of them fail the damn thing as unbelievable as that is.

    Doc theres alot more to failing schools than money, the teachers and the buildings.

    The environment those kids live in, their parents or lack of and peer pressure.

    When i worked in the alternative school, I would take kids in the school bus to feed them, because they would come to me and tell me they were hungry, they came to school hungry, dressed worse than a dog with mange, had one girl came to school in pajamas I said why are you here in pajamas, she said I didnt have any clothes and didnt want to stay home. Look I could go on and on, I called dyfs countless times, thats jerseys Division of Youth and Family Services.

    The female vice principal of the alternative school called a mother to talk to her about her daughter constantly coming to school hungry, and unwashed and unkempt and this is HS kids the woman went nuts on the phone and threatened the VP and came to the school high and was going to atttack her, we stopped her got her arrested.

    Theres so many factors to failed schools and kids graduating that cant do the simplest math, whats the point of giving them a diploma other than it adds to your positive stats.
    The educational system is not going to overcome the stingy amount of money that is allocated to CPS by the States unless that becomes part of the equation. If children are living in toxic family environments where they are neither being fed or clothed adequately, that is critical. If the state (i.e. the federal government) wants a better outcome, then the state needs to directly fund CPS and ensure that children are not being left to languish in untenable conditions. A really good group home is better than having a child who is basically having to fend for him or herself with a drug/alcohol addicted parent or one who simply couldn't care less about their children. Children are the future - allowing them to spoil because of misplaced economy or misguided social theory is a mistake.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The educational system is not going to overcome the stingy amount of money that is allocated to CPS by the States unless that becomes part of the equation. If children are living in toxic family environments where they are neither being fed or clothed adequately, that is critical. If the state (i.e. the federal government) wants a better outcome, then the state needs to directly fund CPS and ensure that children are not being left to languish in untenable conditions. A really good group home is better than having a child who is basically having to fend for him or herself with a drug/alcohol addicted parent or one who simply couldn't care less about their children. Children are the future - allowing them to spoil because of misplaced economy or misguided social theory is a mistake.
    Doc that is not the only money they get, that augments what the state gives and in some states the locality.

    In florida the state gives money to each county for education and part of property taxs in each county goes to schools, on top of what the feds give.

    Bad education results are not money

    Jersey has the highest property taxs in the country and the biggest portion of those taxs goes to Schools, they get a fortune in jersey
    LETS GO BRANDON
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The wealthiest country on the planet should be able to meet the federal standard by trying to exceed it. Whatever needs to change in order to achieve it should be explored. If you operate from the perspective that apart from the learning disabled, every child can readily learn information, then it just comes down to teaching skills, notwithstanding ensuring children are being fed enough to be able to learn. This has been proven time and time again. Interested students learn.
    It isn't just about what they are taught. There is a lack of discipline that has to change. You can't learn in a hostile environment or if you're afraid. No one has the nerve to talk about what the real problem is. There is never going to be a solution. The poor will remain that way due to the lack of skills to get ahead.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    And exactly what is wrong with public schools. People behind desks in DC thinking they know how it works.
    Perhaps it's the disconnection between what is good for the students and what is good for the teachers that is the problem. Perhaps the fact that teachers are underpaid in so many schools that leads to the unfortunate outcomes. Perhaps it's the fact that disinterested parents don't have higher expectations or value education. Parents who are not disinterested tend to enroll their children in Charter Schools, hoping for a better outcome. Perhaps terrible parents produce children who are dysfunctional and almost impossible to teach and perhaps such parents should not be allowed to rear children. Perhaps the reason that other countries have better outcomes is because the children have discipline and are not raising themselves.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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