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Thread: This is not a Christian nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So was Jesus. He founded a new religion from the ashes of the old one, based on a rejection of their worldly pretenses.
    Was Jesus a Pharisee? I cannot recall reading that he was.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    I am delighted we have you here as you are an authority on Rome and Christianity.
    If one wishes to speak to Christianity with authority, they need only read the gospels. Jesus believed in spiritualism, peace, and mercy. In other words, the exact opposite of the US empire.

    Should the Jews pay the tax? What did Jesus say?
    Render under Caesar, assuming it was actually Jesus who said that, is open to numerous interpretations.

    Some people interpret it very literally and narrowly, as a straightforward command to pay taxes and obey secular authorities.

    Others interpret it more figuratively and broadly, as a subtle intimation against earthly authority.

    I find the former choice rather odd, given the frequency with which Jesus used parables and figurative language to communicate his ideas.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Was Jesus a Pharisee? I cannot recall reading that he was.
    Jesus was a Jew who broke away from Judaism and formed a new religion.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    If one wishes to speak to Christianity with authority, they need only read the gospels. Jesus believed in spiritualism, peace, and mercy. In other words, the exact opposite of the US empire.
    So all the other books may be dismissed then? Darn. I read and studied them for nothing, I suppose. What did Jesus study?

    Did Jesus oppose Rome?

    Is Christianity something for the individual to embrace or is it collective, as is the state? Is the claim that Jesus died so we might individually be saved in error? Did Jesus die for Alabama?

    Should the Jews pay the tax? What did Jesus say?
    Render under Caesar, assuming it was actually Jesus who said that, is open to numerous interpretations.
    Some people interpret it very literally and narrowly, as a straightforward command to pay taxes and obey secular authorities.
    Others interpret it more figuratively and broadly, as a subtle intimation against earthly authority.
    I find the former choice rather odd, given the frequency with which Jesus used parables and figurative language to communicate his ideas.
    "Render unto Caesar" seems pretty clear.

    Is it possible that Jesus saw two spheres, that of the State and that of the individual?
    Last edited by MisterVeritis; 12-07-2018 at 01:49 PM.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    The United States of America is not a Christian nation. It is a secular nation. It was established as a secular nation.
    The USA isn't a "nation" at all, but a federation. And while it's certainly true that the federation was established as secular, the underlying character and culture of the American people was overwhelmingly Christian.

    How can we draw any conclusions about the religious character of the nation's people based on what private companies do? I would be as close to neutral as possible. I would not want to alienate a substantial number of potential customers. To draw conclusions about the religious character of the nation perhaps one ought to evaluate the health of the various religious organizations.
    It's pretty simple.

    If America were a "Christian nation", then it would be in the financial interests of private companies to cater to the Christian religion. The fact that they're worried about offending people is proof that Christianity is no longer the defining characteristic of the country as it once was.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Jesus was a Jew who broke away from Judaism and formed a new religion.
    Is that what Jesus did? What did Jesus say about what he was doing? Didn't he say he came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets? If the Jews embraced Jesus as the fulfillment of Judaism would Christianity exist? Or would all Christians be Jewish?
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The USA isn't a "nation" at all, but a federation. And while it's certainly true that the federation was established as secular, the underlying character and culture of the American people was overwhelmingly Christian.



    It's pretty simple.

    If America were a "Christian nation", then it would be in the financial interests of private companies to cater to the Christian religion. The fact that they're worried about offending people is proof that Christianity is no longer the defining characteristic of the country as it once was.
    You simplify things to the point where nothing has any meaning.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    So all the other books may be dismissed then? Darn. I read and studied them for nothing, I suppose. What did Jesus study?
    According to Jesus, the new testament supersedes the old testament.

    Did Jesus oppose Rome?
    If the stories about him are true, then there is no question that he did.

    Is Christianity something for the individual to embrace or is it collective, as is the state?
    It is both.

    Is the claim that Jesus died so we might individually be saved in error? Did Jesus die for Alabama?
    Huh?

    "Render unto Caesar" seems pretty clear.
    Sure, if you ignore everything else Jesus said and did.

    Is it possible that Jesus saw two spheres, that of the State and that of the individual?
    Jesus did see two spheres: Heaven and Earth. One was spiritual and one was material. One belonged to God and the other to Man. Yet Jesus made it exceedingly clear that God was above man. So how can anyone interpret "render unto Caesar" as a command to obey earthly authorities when Jesus was about the business of God and Heaven?
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You simplify things to the point where nothing has any meaning.
    I use words properly.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    According to Jesus, the new testament supersedes the old testament.
    What could Jesus have meant as the New Testament did not exist at the time of his life and death?
    Did Jesus oppose Rome?
    If the stories about him are true, then there is no question that he did.
    Really? Which stories are about Jesus opposing Rome?
    Is Christianity something for the individual to embrace or is it collective, as is the state?
    It is both.
    How is that possible? Did Jesus set up a government?
    Is the claim that Jesus died so we might individually be saved in error? Did Jesus die for Alabama?
    Huh?
    Did I stutter?

    Can you show me where Jesus died so the State could be saved? Am I saved if the State of Alabama accepts Jesus (whatever that might mean)? Do I lose my saved status if I move to Georgia?
    "Render unto Caesar" seems pretty clear.
    Sure, if you ignore everything else Jesus said and did.
    I see. Is it your position that Jesus lied or was deceptive?
    Is it possible that Jesus saw two spheres, that of the State and that of the individual?
    Jesus did see two spheres: Heaven and Earth. One was spiritual and one was material. One belonged to God and the other to Man. Yet Jesus made it exceedingly clear that God was above man. So how can anyone interpret "render unto Caesar" as a command to obey earthly authorities when Jesus was about the business of God and Heaven?
    So you are arguing that Jesus lied and deceived the people.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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