Members banned from this thread: AZ Jim


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 15 of 25 FirstFirst ... 5111213141516171819 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 249

Thread: This is not a Christian nation.

  1. #141
    Points: 92,612, Level: 74
    Level completed: 15%, Points required for next Level: 2,138
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Common Sense's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    931196
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    41,841
    Points
    92,612
    Level
    74
    Thanks Given
    14,236
    Thanked 16,117x in 11,350 Posts
    Mentioned
    544 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    If you're posting nonsense on a message board are you an idiot? If not, what are you?
    The norm.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Common Sense For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (12-10-2018),Peter1469 (12-08-2018)

  3. #142
    Points: 100,746, Level: 77
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 1,804
    Overall activity: 9.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialYour first Group50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    IMPress Polly's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    156220
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Vermont, USA
    Posts
    8,575
    Points
    100,746
    Level
    77
    Thanks Given
    10,232
    Thanked 7,643x in 4,358 Posts
    Mentioned
    634 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    May have been founded somewhat on Christian principles and special interests sure know how to use God as a political wedge but to suggest that Christmas is more about the birth of Christ then Amazon black friday, cyber monday, hooray for capitalism is a $#@!ing joke.

    You are an idiot if you believe Christmas is about Christ. It may be more about Christ for you but society as a whole, nope.

    Bow to the God of BUY BUY BUY!

    Carry on, little Eichmanns.
    It may be worth pointing out that the revolutionary fathers of this country were predominantly Deists, not fundamentalist Christians. Most of them did not believe in the supernatural, for example. You will find that this includes, among many others, all of our first four presidents -- George Washington (who also led the Revolutionary War) and John Adams on what was considered to be the right wing, as well as Thomas Jefferson (who authored his own version of the Bible omitting all supernatural occurrences) and James Madison (who was also the principal author of the U.S. Constitution) on what was considered the left -- in addition to, in a still more complete way, the likes of Thomas Paine, the famed author of Common Sense, and Ethan Allen, who is considered the founder of my state, Vermont. I seriously do not get from whence the "founded as a Christian nation, on Christian principles" argument comes. That claim has no basis, especially as wielded by supernaturalist institutions like the Southern Baptist Convention.

    To be sure, most of the "founding fathers" sought to practice both Deism and Christianity (as to remain socially acceptable), but strongly sided with the former type of view wherever the two obviously conflicted (as with the idea of supernatural phenomenon). Perhaps this might go a long way toward explaining their sympathies with the principle of religious freedom. None of them, to my knowledge, celebrated Christmas either. Neither did most Americans at the time. It was often viewed as an unwelcome foreign import.

    America wasn't the only country like that either. In France, whose 18th century revolution was inspired by ours, there came a point, during the rule of the Jacobins (who won the first election in which all men were allowed to vote, regardless of class), when plans were drawn up by the governing party to mandate a variety of Deism as the official state religion.

    Anyway...I do get your point, Charlie Brown: that Christmas today is an essentially empty, soulless commercial holiday in practice wherein the public celebration of the officially founding Christian element has become its most controversial aspect, outweighed in cultural popularity and celebration by the figure of the Santa Claus (e.g. Santa imagery is everywhere, while stuff like manger scenes and Christian carols are getting tougher to find). It's a fair enough point, I suppose, and I can see how as much would be depressing some who count themselves Christians. I'm just pointing out here that the increasing failure of your local mall or neighborhood lawn to visibly acknowledge the virgin birth isn't necessarily out of step with the views of those considered the principal founders of this country, most of whom neither believed in the virgin birth nor celebrated this particular holiday at all.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 12-08-2018 at 09:38 AM.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IMPress Polly For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (12-10-2018),Peter1469 (12-08-2018)

  5. #143
    Original Ranter
    Points: 859,122, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 90.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialCreated Album picturesOverdrive50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Peter1469's Avatar Advisor
    Karma
    496581
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NOVA
    Posts
    241,700
    Points
    859,122
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    153,223
    Thanked 147,591x in 94,420 Posts
    Mentioned
    2552 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    It may be worth pointing out that the revolutionary fathers of this country were predominantly Deists, not fundamentalist Christians. Most of them did not believe in the supernatural, for example. You will find that this includes, among many others, all of our first four presidents -- George Washington (who also led the Revolutionary War) and John Adams on what was considered to be the right wing, as well as Thomas Jefferson (who authored his own version of the Bible omitting all supernatural occurrences) and James Monroe (who was also the principal author of the U.S. Constitution) on what was considered the left -- in addition to, in a still more complete way, the likes of Thomas Paine, the famed author of Common Sense, and Ethan Allen, who is considered the founder of my state, Vermont. I seriously do not get from whence the "founded as a Christian nation, on Christian principles" argument comes. That claim has no basis, especially as wielded by supernaturalist institutions like the Southern Baptist Convention.

    To be sure, most of the "founding fathers" sought to practice both Deism and Christianity (as to remain socially acceptable), but strongly sided with the former type of view wherever the two obviously conflicted (as with the idea of supernatural phenomenon). Perhaps this might go a long way toward explaining their sympathies with the principle of religious freedom. None of them, to my knowledge, celebrated Christmas either. Neither did most Americans at the time. It was often viewed as an unwelcome foreign import.

    America wasn't the only country like that either. In France, whose 18th century revolution was inspired by ours, there came a point, during the rule of the Jacobins (who won the first election in which all men were allowed to vote, regardless of class), when plans were drawn up by the governing party to mandate a variety of Deism as the official state religion.

    Anyway...I do get your point, Charlie Brown: that Christmas today is an essentially commercial holiday in practice wherein the public celebration of the officially founding Christian element has become its most controversial aspect, outweighed in cultural popularity and celebration by the figure of the Santa Claus (e.g. Santa imagery is everywhere, while stuff like manger scenes and Christian carols are getting tougher to find). It's a fair enough point, I suppose, and I can see how as much would be depressing some who count themselves Christians. I'm just pointing out here that the increasing failure of your local mall or neighborhood lawn to visibly acknowledge the virgin birth isn't necessarily out of step with the views of those considered the principal founders of this country, most of whom neither believed in the virgin birth nor celebrated this particular holiday at all.
    I largely agree with your take on our Founders. However I include those who signed the Declaration of Independence as Founders. Many of those were clergy of various denominations.

    With that said, I agree that the US was not founded as, or is, a Christian nation. It was founded as and is a secular nation. However, the cultural roots of America is Western and traces its roots from a religious Europe and even back to Rome. Read up on DC and its early history for that neat bit of history.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Peter1469 For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (12-10-2018),IMPress Polly (12-08-2018),MisterVeritis (12-08-2018)

  7. #144
    Points: 172,963, Level: 98
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 687
    Overall activity: 49.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    88554
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    51,915
    Points
    172,963
    Level
    98
    Thanks Given
    18,303
    Thanked 20,522x in 14,781 Posts
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Then the term itself has no value.
    Yes. Exactly. It has lost value as a distinctive term and now must be supported by context to mean much of anything at all.

  8. #145
    Points: 172,963, Level: 98
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 687
    Overall activity: 49.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    88554
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    51,915
    Points
    172,963
    Level
    98
    Thanks Given
    18,303
    Thanked 20,522x in 14,781 Posts
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    It may be worth pointing out that the revolutionary fathers of this country were predominantly Deists, not fundamentalist Christians. Most of them did not believe in the supernatural, for example. You will find that this includes, among many others, all of our first four presidents -- George Washington (who also led the Revolutionary War) and John Adams on what was considered to be the right wing, as well as Thomas Jefferson (who authored his own version of the Bible omitting all supernatural occurrences) and James Monroe (who was also the principal author of the U.S. Constitution) on what was considered the left -- in addition to, in a still more complete way, the likes of Thomas Paine, the famed author of Common Sense, and Ethan Allen, who is considered the founder of my state, Vermont. I seriously do not get from whence the "founded as a Christian nation, on Christian principles" argument comes. That claim has no basis, especially as wielded by supernaturalist institutions like the Southern Baptist Convention.

    To be sure, most of the "founding fathers" sought to practice both Deism and Christianity (as to remain socially acceptable), but strongly sided with the former type of view wherever the two obviously conflicted (as with the idea of supernatural phenomenon). Perhaps this might go a long way toward explaining their sympathies with the principle of religious freedom. None of them, to my knowledge, celebrated Christmas either. Neither did most Americans at the time. It was often viewed as an unwelcome foreign import.

    America wasn't the only country like that either. In France, whose 18th century revolution was inspired by ours, there came a point, during the rule of the Jacobins (who won the first election in which all men were allowed to vote, regardless of class), when plans were drawn up by the governing party to mandate a variety of Deism as the official state religion.

    Anyway...I do get your point, Charlie Brown: that Christmas today is an essentially commercial holiday in practice wherein the public celebration of the officially founding Christian element has become its most controversial aspect, outweighed in cultural popularity and celebration by the figure of the Santa Claus (e.g. Santa imagery is everywhere, while stuff like manger scenes and Christian carols are getting tougher to find). It's a fair enough point, I suppose, and I can see how as much would be depressing some who count themselves Christians. I'm just pointing out here that the increasing failure of your local mall or neighborhood lawn to visibly acknowledge the virgin birth isn't necessarily out of step with the views of those considered the principal founders of this country, most of whom neither believed in the virgin birth nor celebrated this particular holiday at all.

    Interesting information. Obviously Paine was a Deist for sure. But I did not know that Deism was widely followed by the founders. Many people where I live, including me, feel closest to God/The universe/Their Center ( However you wish to word it) in the woods on next to a stream. Christmas as we know it now is largely a Commercial Holiday started way too early to . Or has my son puts it . "There are 12 days of Christmas and NONE of them are in $#@!ing November!"
    Though out much of history religion and nationalism are how the poor are motivated to fight for the greed of the super rich.

  9. #146
    Points: 4,769, Level: 16
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 381
    Overall activity: 0.1%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    HumblePi's Avatar Member
    Karma
    57
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    152
    Points
    4,769
    Level
    16
    Thanks Given
    70
    Thanked 47x in 34 Posts
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    May have been founded somewhat on Christian principles and special interests sure know how to use God as a political wedge but to suggest that Christmas is more about the birth of Christ then Amazon black friday, cyber monday, hooray for capitalism is a $#@!ing joke.
    You are an idiot if you believe Christmas is about Christ. It may be more about Christ for you but society as a whole, nope.

    Bow to the God of BUY BUY BUY!

    Carry on, little Eichmanns.
    I have to agree. Living as a Christian in name only and living as a Christian through actions are not even remotely close to being the same thing. We've become victims of manipulation. Our minds are manipulated by partisan politics, our sickness in material 'stuff' is blatant and out of control and being fed by commercialism. Really, can't your 11 year old daughter or son live without a smartphone or being pressured into joining every sport their school offers. Do kids really need to get a ride in Range Rover to school when it's only a half mile from home? We're raising a new generation of spoiled, entitled children that will grown up as a carbon copy of all that Trump represents.

    We forgot what Christmas past represented. It represented a celebration of the birth of Christ who received 3 gifts from Muslim Kings. It doesn't mean that people have to push their credit cards to the max and go into debt buying stupid stuff that nobody really needs. Now Christmas represents mobs rushing Walmart's on Black Friday and people punching each other and wrestling over a leopard print hoodie at Victoria's Secret. Where's Christ in all that?

    My son moved to Colombia, South America. He reminds me of how people that honor the Christ child on December 25th remember him. They celebrate with lights, with music, with good food and brotherhood. They don't buy mountains of presents or expensive toys that will be discarded in a few days. They keep the Christ child at the focus and forefront of this holiday. Simpler times.... does anyone in the U.S. even remember what that was like? I surely do.
    Last edited by HumblePi; 12-09-2018 at 09:32 AM.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to HumblePi For This Useful Post:

    Peter1469 (12-09-2018)

  11. #147
    Points: 264,399, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 82.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteranTagger First ClassOverdrive
    Awards:
    Activity Award
    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    307877
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Northern Alabama
    Posts
    104,547
    Points
    264,399
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    94,662
    Thanked 39,251x in 27,872 Posts
    Mentioned
    385 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    He's an atheist. Why would Christmas mean anything to him?
    'tis true. I do not have any need for gods.

    Growing up Christmas was always the worst of the holidays. With human-caused global warming, the snows will soon be gone. That will cheer me up.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to MisterVeritis For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (12-10-2018)

  13. #148
    Points: 84,523, Level: 70
    Level completed: 87%, Points required for next Level: 327
    Overall activity: 12.0%
    Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteran
    Captdon's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    12826
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Charleston South Carolina
    Posts
    38,294
    Points
    84,523
    Level
    70
    Thanks Given
    67,690
    Thanked 12,837x in 10,134 Posts
    Mentioned
    161 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    From your helpful post, it is clear that the Roman empire was "Christian" for its last 150 years. Did Roman Christians support the Roman empire?

    I am delighted we have you here as you are an authority on Rome and Christianity.

    Should the Jews pay the tax? What did Jesus say?
    God, now he's anti-Roman. Yea, Jesus said to pay them.
    Liberals are a clear and present danger to our nation
    Pick your enemies carefully.






  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Captdon For This Useful Post:

    MisterVeritis (12-09-2018)

  15. #149
    Points: 264,399, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 82.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsSocialVeteranTagger First ClassOverdrive
    Awards:
    Activity Award
    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    307877
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Northern Alabama
    Posts
    104,547
    Points
    264,399
    Level
    100
    Thanks Given
    94,662
    Thanked 39,251x in 27,872 Posts
    Mentioned
    385 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    God, now he's anti-Roman. Yea, Jesus said to pay them.
    ...especially the Roman Pharisees.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to MisterVeritis For This Useful Post:

    Captdon (12-10-2018)

  17. #150
    Points: 12,242, Level: 26
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 408
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Orion Rules's Avatar Senior Member
    Karma
    702
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,279
    Points
    12,242
    Level
    26
    Thanks Given
    2,829
    Thanked 694x in 569 Posts
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    ...especially the Roman Pharisees.
    Your judaism is a jinx.
    Plant farms and animal sanctuaries with just compensation: Genesis 1:29-30, 2-3, Lev. 24:18-22, Psalm 50, Isaiah 1, 11:6-9, 65, 66, Daniel 1, Hosea 2:18, Revelation 20-22.

    Creation of horses: Zechariah 6:1-8, 14:20. Wild Horses, burros persecuted, parted out in violation of Public Law 92-195:
    https://twitter.com/WildHorseEdu

    Jesus was a Vegetarian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6J6jh1Dzo

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts