Which wars or military actions...

[Mister D]

Had Germany won WWI Hitler would have been a mediocre artist.

OTOH, Europe would have taken a markedly different course and one not particularly palatable to American liberals.

[Ethereal]

...has the US engaged in since our independence from England that truly were for the protection of this nation?

By protection I mean we were under material threat of significant occupation and/or being subject to capitulation.

Discuss

The Barbary wars are probably the most unambiguous example of the US fighting a war that was genuinely defensive in nature. It was in response to American vessels being attacked and plundered and American persons being killed and enslaved by the Barbary pirates. And before the US declared war on the Barbary pirates, they tried for years to resolve the problem with diplomacy, including paying tribute to the rulers of the Barbary Coast. This was the policy of European powers as well. They decided it was cheaper to pay them tribute than to fight them in a war. It was the administration of Thomas Jefferson that finally sought to reverse the status quo, but the prior administrations of Adams and Washington helped make that possible with their pro-naval policies. Jefferson would not authorize ANY offensive action "beyond the line of defense" without congressional approval, which he received. Jefferson oversaw a buildup of the US Navy which distinguished itself amazingly in the Barbary wars. There is no other way to describe those early US Naval officers as anything other than total freaking badasses. And of course the US naval tradition is more or less a continuation of Britain's proud naval history.

I would also include the Qausi wars in the category of defensive wars. It was a war between the US and France during the Adams presidency. Basically, it consisted of US naval vessels and American privateers fighting sporadic battles with French naval vessels and privateers. Although I'm sure the French would probably disagree with me, I think it is fair to say the French "started" it. The US was refusing to pay some debts to France and was getting closer to France's enemy England, but the US never attacked them or authorized piracy against French citizens.

And one more would have to be the war of 1812 simply for the fact that England was basically imprisoning US citizens and forcing them into the British navy. Not that the US was totally innocent, but at least you can point to something specific that was being done to US rights that is unjust and which warranted a firm response.

I will add WWII and the "GWOT" to the list even though both wars were largely manufactured. It doesn't really count as "defensive" when those in power are looking for any excuse to start a war or get involved in a war. The intent behind the war matters, too.

[Ethereal]

Had Germany won WWI Hitler would have been a mediocre artist.

If they hadn't forced Germany into a humiliating and degrading surrender, same thing.

[Cletus]

Had Germany won WWI Hitler would have been a mediocre artist.

He was actually a lot better than mediocre.

[Peter1469]

He was actually a lot better than mediocre.

Art is subjective. I think most of it sucks.

[donttread]

...has the US engaged in since our independence from England that truly were for the protection of this nation?

By protection I mean we were under material threat of significant occupation and/or being subject to capitulation.

Discuss

1812 for one. But WW1, WW 2 had some true justification. The only one that comes close since was Afghanistan 2.0 , but even that would likely not have been necessary had it not been for our meddling in ME prior to 9/11. Dessert storm was well managed, unlike most of our modern day military actions, but probably not necessary. War has become a business , a source of employment, a distraction from the mess our government has made of domestic policy. And of course it satisfies the controllist within most power mongers as well as filling campaign coffers .

[Captdon]

I am using my criterias.

The war of 1812 was necessary for our independence on the seas.

The war with Mexico could have been prevented by talks about the actual border but Santa Anna invaded Texas ant we had to defend the nation.


The Civil war was necessary to preserve the union.

The Indian wars were right and wrong. I have no opinion.

The war with Spain was not needed.

WWI was a disgrace by Wilson. It was not of any national interest to us.

WWII against Japan was the needed. The war against Germany was not needed.

Korea was for the UN. That's a no.

Vietnam was a disgrace. Vietnam vets should $#@! on LBJ's rave every year.

The Gulf war was needed for our national interest. Having Hussein in charge of the oil was unacceptable.

The War in Iraq was needed if the WMD report was believable. It should have been in and out.



Afghanistan was necessary.

[Captdon]

But they would have everything form Scandinavia south to North Africa and east to Iran while Japan would have had everything from China south to Australia and west to Burma had we not got involved.

So? How would that have had any different , good outcome for us.

[Cletus]

Art is subjective. I think most of it sucks.

Vienna State Opera House




The Karlskirche in Vienna




Odensplatz





There are just 3 examples of his work. They are actually quite good.

[donttread]

I am using my criterias.

The war of 1812 was necessary for our independence on the seas.

The war with Mexico could have been prevented by talks about the actual border but Santa Anna invaded Texas ant we had to defend the nation.


The Civil war was necessary to preserve the union.

The Indian wars were right and wrong. I have no opinion.

The war with Spain was not needed.

WWI was a disgrace by Wilson. It was not of any national interest to us.

WWII against Japan was the needed. The war against Germany was not needed.

Korea was for the UN. That's a no.

Vietnam was a disgrace. Vietnam vets should $#@! on LBJ's rave every year.

The Gulf war was needed for our national interest. Having Hussein in charge of the oil was unacceptable.

The War in Iraq was needed if the WMD report was believable. It should have been in and out.



Afghanistan was necessary.

Which Afghanistan was necessary?