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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Good topic JAP - and it's not just corporations who are looked after by government. I just found out that in Australia we have a tax rort called 'Negative gearing'. This is a system where rich people buy investment property (like houses and stuff) on a huge mortgage, and let it. The incoming rents will be less than the outgoing mortgage payments, and they are allowed to deduct the losses from their other income for taxation purposes. What this does, other than making already rich people richer, is keep the price of housing high, and stop loads of young families buying their own home.

    My dad is not wealthy, but he has a professional practice, and could probably afford to do that, but he says it is immoral and would like to see negative gearing disallowed by the tax department. But we have a very conservative government, and that wouldn't be popular with their rich mates who fund the Australian conservative party.

    Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. once wrote - "I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization."

    I think this - from Professor Ron Moodie of Melbourne University - is interesting.
    Thank you for sharing that. I didn't know about that, it is pretty awful. I know the cost of renting is often much higher than the price of buying your own home. That keeps people living paycheck to paycheck. They have a hard time saving up for a down payment. People get trapped renting. Often times investors buy up houses and just rent them out, and the tenants pay the mortgage payment for the landlords, and even after making the mortgage payment the landlords have money to spare. They charge the tenants sometimes two to three times what their mortgage payment is on that property. So in this case the poor are stuck buying homes for the wealthy.

    What I know though, is that the wealthy are not better or anything, it is just that sometimes they just know some things the poor don't. Like MR Rothschilds. He is serious when he says that his success is in his DNA. The wealthy claim that their superior DNA is what allows them to prosper. But I think what they really mean when they say that, is the knowledge passed down to them from generation to generation. They are not special, they just know how the system works, and all the tricks of the trade. They use it to their advantage.

    Meanwhile the common plebeians are so busy working two or three jobs, taking care of kids, and every penny goes towards bills. They are in constant stress trying to survive, they never even have time to look up and find a way to live easier. They don't have time to find out. But in reality most of them could be paying half the money that they do to survive. That is the difference between the wealthy and the poor.

    If you are a wealthy landlord how can you look down on that poor person who is paying many more times than you to survive? And maybe even that poor person is giving you the money that you use to survive on, while that poor person is barley getting by. The common persons rent is many times higher than a mortgage. The poor only have less, because it is all being given to the wealthy. If the poor person pays 1500 in rent but the wealthy person only pays 400 to 700 for the mortgage payment for that very property, that is just insane. The poor person is paying the way for the wealthy person. Their paycheck is making the wealthy, wealthy.

    The wealthy may look down on the poor, but in reality they live off of the backs of the poor. The poor are stuck because too much is being taken from them. It keeps them trapped in poverty.

    It only takes a little knowledge, and a little extra money to change your life, but who has the time to find that out?
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Once again the liberals blame the corporations and the wealthy for a government problem. It's like they're blind to the government doing wrong.

    No government should provide any welfare.

    Our government should not unless it serves the general welfare and no special interest, wealthy or poor, corporate or individual.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Buying is not always the smart move. If you are a young professional in a field that requires frequent moves, buying could be a disaster. Also a lot of young people like to live close to work. In major cities that means you are not buying.

    Also, when you own you get to pay to maintain the property, and that can get very expensive.

    A home is not an investment. It is a place to live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    Buying is not always the smart move. If you are a young professional in a field that requires frequent moves, buying could be a disaster. Also a lot of young people like to live close to work. In major cities that means you are not buying.

    Also, when you own you get to pay to maintain the property, and that can get very expensive.

    A home is not an investment. It is a place to live.
    That is true, it all depends on a persons lifestyle. But many dream of nothing more than owning their own home, but are stuck in the cycle of poverty. Every person will be different and have different hopes and dreams. But everyone I have ever known has wanted a place to call their own. A home is a place to live, but consequently it is also an investment.

    Most people think that when they buy their first home that it will be their forever home. But the statistics show that it will be sold at some point. To me a home is both. Because it is also an asset that has value, and it can be sold at any time, if the market allows. The asset can be turned into cash. Most often a home value will increase, and you will have the opportunity to sell it for far more than you paid, and move up to an even better house the next time. It is definitely an investment. But it is also home.

    Also whether or not buying is a smart move can also depend on the market. Buying can be very smart in a downed market. I lived in AZ and home prices were astronomical like they are now. But then the market crashed those 300K homes were selling for pennies in Vegas too. Imagine how much money was made in that downturn? I am not a fan of a bunch of people losing their homes. But I am just stating facts. I find the whole thing to be sad. But it is reality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    That is true, it all depends on a persons lifestyle. But many dream of nothing more than owning their own home, but are stuck in the cycle of poverty. Every person will be different and have different hopes and dreams. But everyone I have ever known has wanted a place to call their own. A home is a place to live, but consequently it is also an investment.

    Most people think that when they buy their first home that it will be their forever home. But the statistics show that it will be sold at some point. To me a home is both. Because it is also an asset that has value, and it can be sold at any time, if the market allows. The asset can be turned into cash. Most often a home value will increase, and you will have the opportunity to sell it for far more than you paid, and move up to an even better house the next time. It is definitely an investment. But it is also home.

    Also whether or not buying is a smart move can also depend on the market. Buying can be very smart in a downed market. I lived in AZ and home prices were astronomical like they are now. But then the market crashed those 300K homes were selling for pennies in Vegas too. Imagine how much money was made in that downturn? I am not a fan of a bunch of people losing their homes. But I am just stating facts. I find the whole thing to be sad. But it is reality.
    My condo was $300K. Inside the DC beltway a normal 3-4 bedroom house will cost over $1M.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    My condo was $300K. Inside the DC beltway a normal 3-4 bedroom house will cost over $1M.
    But a condo is still your own home. I don't differentiate, condo house etc. An owned home is an owned home, or mortgage is the path to ownership. Yes, in bigger cities many people have to live in condos, it is still expensive. But it is yours. Well nothing is really ours. I mean it all belongs to the gov, and even beyond that it belongs to no one. I know I don't own my home, it may be paid for, but nothing is ours. We are borrowing it. I always like to say, on our last day we will be shown all of our possessions. They will all slip through our hands. Nothing is ours not even our own self.

    One more thing many prefer to buy a condo, because the living is more free. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a personal choice. Some don't like to mow the lawn Many times condos are nicer than a house. Home is home. For me house in the woods is what I call home.
    Last edited by Just AnotherPerson; 01-14-2019 at 10:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just AnotherPerson View Post
    But a condo is still your own home. I don't differentiate, condo house etc. An owned home is an owned home, or mortgage is the path to ownership. Yes, in bigger cities many people have to live in condos, it is still expensive. But it is yours. Well nothing is really ours. I mean it all belongs to the gov, and even beyond that it belongs to no one. I know I don't own my home, it may be paid for, but nothing is ours. We are borrowing it. I always like to say, on our last day we will be shown all of our possessions. They will all slip through our hands. Nothing is ours not even our own self.

    One more thing many prefer to buy a condo, because the living is more free. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a personal choice. Some don't like to mow the lawn Many times condos are nicer than a house. Home is home. For me house in the woods is what I call home.
    I certainly don't want to live in the suburbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Allowing a corporation or business to keep more of their earnings is not a welfare program.
    It is not their earnings, Tahu. It is extra they are taking that is not theirs.
    If a company makes 200 billion a year in taxable income, at the current 25% just pushed through by Trump, that would be 50 billion in taxes. A company that large can easily write all of that off and even end up getting a refund. Just like a family with 3 kids can get back a refund of more than they paid in taxes all year.
    Who makes up for that lost tax revenue? If the company manages, say, a 20% negative write-off, and the Treasury Dept. sends them a refund for 10 billion dollars, who covers that?
    IT IS THE PEOPLE. It is the poor, middle class, and some small time rich people.
    Icing on the cake- When the government does not tax the regular people to make up for corporate welfare, our deficit explodes, which is exactly what we have been seeing for decades now. Now, we owe interest to a private bank(FED) on 20 trillion dollars. That is one scary credit card bill.
    I get a lot of flak in this forum for having ideas that would take money from one person and distribute it to another. I get called a communist, socialist, and a marxist kook. LOL. But this tax system we have in place right now is an even bigger fleecing of the people than communism could ever be. It redistributes all of the people's wealth upward into ever-increasing quarterly profits of corporations.
    It is not money they have earned. It is stolen from our pockets through tax evasion loopholes. And that is just on the taxes end, before we even add into the equation government subsidies, grants, assisted financing, and crony contracts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioGod View Post
    It is not their earnings, Tahu. It is extra they are taking that is not theirs.
    If a company makes 200 billion a year in taxable income, at the current 25% just pushed through by Trump, that would be 50 billion in taxes. A company that large can easily write all of that off and even end up getting a refund. Just like a family with 3 kids can get back a refund of more than they paid in taxes all year.
    Who makes up for that lost tax revenue? If the company manages, say, a 20% negative write-off, and the Treasury Dept. sends them a refund for 10 billion dollars, who covers that?
    IT IS THE PEOPLE. It is the poor, middle class, and some small time rich people.
    Icing on the cake- When the government does not tax the regular people to make up for corporate welfare, our deficit explodes, which is exactly what we have been seeing for decades now. Now, we owe interest to a private bank(FED) on 20 trillion dollars. That is one scary credit card bill.
    I get a lot of flak in this forum for having ideas that would take money from one person and distribute it to another. I get called a communist, socialist, and a marxist kook. LOL. But this tax system we have in place right now is an even bigger fleecing of the people than communism could ever be. It redistributes all of the people's wealth upward into ever-increasing quarterly profits of corporations.
    It is not money they have earned. It is stolen from our pockets through tax evasion loopholes. And that is just on the taxes end, before we even add into the equation government subsidies, grants, assisted financing, and crony contracts.

    You just admitted that taking a lesser percentage in taxes from their earnings is akin to welfare. Even if that results in them paying more to government in real dollars.
    Last edited by Tahuyaman; 01-15-2019 at 02:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahuyaman View Post
    Tax increases are always welcomed and even praised by the left. They seem to judge the compassion level of the nation on by how high the tax rates may be. The higher the taxes, the more compassionate we are as a nation.

    Cuts in tax rates are portrayed as evil. Increases in tax rates are portrayed as showing empathy and compassion.


    I guess that we can never be a truly compassionate nation until all income is confiscated then doled out to everyone according to the needs of each as perceived by government.
    If we got rid of corporate welfare, we could have massive tax reductions, and pay off our national debt. Wouldn't that be great?
    I was looking at some budget numbers recently. In 2018, 6.41 Trillion in taxes were collected in the US. Of those taxes, only 205 Billion were paid by corporations. That means the corporations, who make almost all of the money, only pay 3.2% of the taxes. The funny thing about this calculation, is it doesn't even show the true lack of tax paying by the biggest corporations. There are currently 5.9 million corporations listed in the US. Out of those, it's really only a couple thousand corporations that are large enough to pay no taxes at all, and even get refunds. That 3.2% paid by corporations is really paid by small corporations.
    We don't need to raise taxes on anyone, not even corporations. We just need them to pay the same as the rest of us, and receive the same special considerations as the rest of us, which is zero. In your fervor for your corporate overlords, Tahu, you have accidentally (I think) been promoting the very thing you profess to hate. Redistribution of wealth. Taking what is not ours. Theft.
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