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Thread: Rights

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I just quoted them from the Declaration and the Constitution. Deny all you like.
    They did not say that rights come from society. There is no quote of them saying that. You just made it up.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    My right to life doesn't require me to save your life, it only requires me to respect your right to it i.e. not murder you, kidnap you and starve you to death etc. My personal ethics, on the other hand, may compel me to save your life.
    It is not your right to life in play. It is your right of liberty. You have a mind. You get to choose for you. I get to choose for me.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Nor did he say they are individual.
    What is true of every member of the society individually, is true of them all collectively, since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals.
    --Thomas Jefferson

    of Liberty then I would say that, in the whole plenitude of it’s extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will: but rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will, within the limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’; because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
    --Thomas Jefferson


    Let us also note that Creator refers to Nature's God.
    Let us note that Jefferson never said that rights come from society, but from a creator.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Your rights are entirely theoretical if you are the only one.
    Society is entirely theoretical if there are no individuals.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    We do not exist as individuals. We exist as social beings.
    There is no dichotomy between being an individual and being a social being. Both can be true at the same time.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    True, the roots of individualism and universalism go way back, even to monotheism, but were held at bay at least through the early medieval period.
    In other words, individualism is not "modern" at all.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    All this talk of individuals sans society reminds of Nisbet, Quest,, on totalitarianism:
    All this talk of society sans individuals reminds of Marx.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
    --John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    I believe that all rights entail equal obligations i.e. my right to life involves preserving your right to life etc.

    Being social beings entails cooperation. We obtain what we value by providing others what they value. The problem is when the state steps in to dictate that.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    They did not say that rights come from society. There is no quote of them saying that. You just made it up.
    Nor did I say rights come from society. Catch up. Your strawman has been explained away.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What is true of every member of the society individually, is true of them all collectively, since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals.
    --Thomas Jefferson

    of Liberty then I would say that, in the whole plenitude of it’s extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will: but rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will, within the limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’; because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
    --Thomas Jefferson




    Let us note that Jefferson never said that rights come from society, but from a creator.
    Like MV you're merely repeating things that have been answered.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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