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Thread: Gender Identity Talk With Gender Critics

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    Gender Identity Talk With Gender Critics

    If you hadn't heard, four gender critical feminists recently hosted a sold-out talk on the issue of gender identity at the Vancouver Public Library entitled Gender Identity and Women's Rights. The event generated controversy from its announcement due to its theme of questioning the concept of gender and gender identity and especially due to the fact that Meghan Murphy, owner of the Feminist Current web site that I most often go to and frequently link to, and who was recently permabanned from Twitter for rudely "misgendering" a male pedophile who goes by Jonathan, was announced as the main and headline speaker. Activists for the transgender movement demanded that the event be cancelled. The library tried to at first, petitioning the speakers about worries that they would violate Canada's law against hate speech (which of course they did not), but were rebuffed. Following on that failed attempt, transgender movement activists demanded that the library also host a "counter-event" organized by people supportive of the transgender movement. The library agreed to and furthermore rescheduled the originally-planned gender identity talk to 9:30 PM (after hours) on Thursday, January 10th and demanded that the speakers pay an addition $2,000 in security fees, and furthermore issued a public statement taking sides in the debate, explicitly condemning Meghan Murphy and stating that the Vancouver Public Library officially disagrees with the speakers associated with the talk.

    The controversy generated by the gender identity talk backfired on its opponents in that it seemed to serve as free publicity. Despite the unreasonable hour, the event sold out and proceeded without incident despite a line of protesters attempting to block entry yelling about, of all things, border politics and waving signs with insane slogans comparing the speakers (branded "TERFs") to Hitler and the Ku Klux Klan. The audience was politically diverse and broadly supportive, and often enthusiastically so. For perspective, if you haven't been to library-hosted talks before, they typically generate an audience in the low double-digits, while this one was attended by at least 300 people. More watched the livestream online, the YouTube recording of which currently has 725 up-votes and just 38 down-votes, which amounts to a 95% positive response from those who watched it. By contrast, the aforementioned "counter event" scheduled for the next day was cancelled after proponents found their own panelists to be...wait for it...too "problematic". Yes. Purity test politics at their finest!

    Here is the talk that has generated all this controversy. It begins at 20:46, so skip ahead to that point. I highly recommend it.



    The talk was a tremendous success. It features four speakers (Meghan is up first). (I know only two are mentioned in the title. However, two other surprise speakers were included as well.) My fave of them were Lee Lakeman (a second wave activist who works at Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter, among other things) and Fay Blaney's "auntie", as she referred to her, who is one of the now-famous "two-spirit" Native women that transgender activists incorrectly claim are trans people. The older women are very different (e.g. Lakeman is vocal and energetic, while the "auntie" is soft-spoken), but they both lay down the IMO much-needed hard line and are just awesome and the indigenous women clarify that, contrary to claims of white transgender movement activists, no their cultures do NOT actually recognize "five genders".

    There are also lots of fun moments (e.g. Meghan dares question whether cats make good pets ) and lots of interesting questions from the audience when they get to the Q&A part after the speeches. Additionally, if you click on the link instead of watching the embedded video, on the right-hand side of the page, next to the video, there's also a recording of the online text chat of those who watched it live online exactly as it unfolded, which is awesome and really gives you a window into our (radical feminist) culture and how we think (and also how we interact with trolls ). For all these reasons and others, I HIGHLY recommend visiting the link and checking it out!
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 01-24-2019 at 07:30 AM.

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    The embeded video's sound didn't work for me, but if you hit the link to YouTube it works fine.

    Listening now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    The embeded video's sound didn't work for me, but if you hit the link to YouTube it works fine.

    Listening now.
    Weird. I think it's something with your computer, Peter, as I just tried the embedded version now (starting at 20:46, the start of the talk) and the sound worked fine for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Weird. I think it's something with your computer, Peter, as I just tried the embedded version now (starting at 20:46, the start of the talk) and the sound worked fine for me.
    Maybe. It is old.
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    I agree with her on one point she makes and the reason she was banned from Twitter which I dont think she should have been for what she said.

    She said Men are Not women and you cant change your biological sex.

    Everyone with a half a brain and any "HONESTY" in them knows she is right
    LETS GO BRANDON
    F Joe Biden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Common View Post
    I agree with her on one point she makes and the reason she was banned from Twitter which I dont think she should have been for what she said.

    She said Men are Not women and you cant change your biological sex.

    Everyone with a half a brain and any "HONESTY" in them knows she is right
    It is a shame she got banned from Twitter when some other tool Tweeted that the Catholic high school MAGA kids should be put into wood chippers and was not banned.
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    Megan Murphy's arguments are so brimming full of logic, reason, truthfulness, and common sense that it's no wonder a mob of angry barbarians tried to crash the gate. And the fact that the library so disingenuously tried to silence the discussion is utterly shameful - embarrassingly shameful. You never ever ever give in to a mob that seeks to silence open discussion.

    I'm only 47 minutes into the video and looking forward to the rest. Thanks for posting it.

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    Lee Lakeman also makes excellent points, and she's obviously a brave soldier for abused women, but I have to part ways with her when she denigrates free speech and wants to suppress "hate" speech. That's a slippery slope to censorship and fascism. That attitude does not help her cause.

    Also, when she speaks of the oppression of immigrant women, is she referring in part to the misogyny of Islam? Because one of the problems I have with Feminism (whatever wave) is that it generally turns a blind eye to the mistreatment of Muslim women by Muslim men. Which feminists actually speak out against FGM, the burka, the endemic domestic violence in Islamic culture, the atrocities of sharia - such as the stoning of women for committing the crime of being raped? Which feminists actually condemn the passages in the Quran and Hadith that encourage rape and other forms of violence toward women?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius View Post
    Lee Lakeman also makes excellent points, and she's obviously a brave soldier for abused women, but I have to part ways with her when she denigrates free speech and wants to suppress "hate" speech. That's a slippery slope to censorship and fascism. That attitude does not help her cause.

    Also, when she speaks of the oppression of immigrant women, is she referring in part to the misogyny of Islam? Because one of the problems I have with Feminism (whatever wave) is that it generally turns a blind eye to the mistreatment of Muslim women by Muslim men. Which feminists actually speak out against FGM, the burka, the endemic domestic violence in Islamic culture, the atrocities of sharia - such as the stoning of women for committing the crime of being raped? Which feminists actually condemn the passages in the Quran and Hadith that encourage rape and other forms of violence toward women?
    I definitely believe that pornography constitutes hate speech.

    As to political Islam, radical feminists (a.k.a. "second wave" feminists, women's liberationists) are pretty strong opponents of it to the point that we are often labeled "Islamophobic" by liberals. Many of us oppose religion itself to some extent or other (myself included), while others practice varying forms of goddess worship, while others try to reform mainstream, male-centric faiths like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. I didn't bother to attend this year's Women's March in part because of the connection between the central organization's leaders and Louis Farrakhan.

    I think you might find a recent podcast interview that Meghan Murphy did with second wave activist and author Phyllis Chesler to be of interest in this connection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I definitely believe that pornography constitutes hate speech.

    As to political Islam, radical feminists (a.k.a. "second wave" feminists, women's liberationists) are pretty strong opponents of it to the point that we are often labeled "Islamophobic" by liberals. Many of us oppose religion itself to some extent or other (myself included), while others practice varying forms of goddess worship, while others try to reform mainstream, male-centric faiths like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. I didn't bother to attend this year's Women's March in part because of the connection between the central organization's leaders and Louis Farrakhan.

    I think you might find a recent podcast interview that Meghan Murphy did with second wave activist and author Phyllis Chesler to be of interest in this connection.
    Thank you, I'll check that out. I'm very very impressed with Megan Murphy - I've heard of her, but never heard her speak. I have to confess that I've generally lumped all Feminists in with the Heinz-57-Varieties-Of-Gender Nazis. I wasn't aware that some of you were outspokenly opposed to their ideologies (and insistence on legislating them). I stand corrected.

    Actually, I was very impressed with Lee Lakewood as well, but I've never heard of pornography classified as hate speech. I'm not saying porn is good, but calling it hate speech doesn't ring true. Speech is speech and having sex on film is something in a completely different category. That's the problem with the idea of hate speech. Who gets to decide what it is and isn't? And then who gets to legislate hate speech laws? It's a damn slippery slope. The protestors outside vehemently accuse Lee and Megan of hate speech, and wish to silence them. Does Lee not see her hypocrisy when she likewise accuses others of hate speech and proclaims that she is not a proponent of free speech? We should not stoop to the tactics of the barbarians.
    Last edited by Marcus Aurelius; 01-25-2019 at 03:15 PM.

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