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Thread: Venezuela, the United States, and Russia: war?

  1. #21
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    Ethereal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helena View Post
    Question: Pompeo said the diplomats would not be leaving as the US does not recognize Maduro as a legitimate authority. Does that translate to a directive? Are the diplomats permitted to leave if they want to? And if so and they do, will they lose their jobs?

    I don't know how these things work.

    Is it true that the US backed the opposition in Venezuela? Does that mean anything more than giving verbal support?

    Does the US have a genuine need to stick its nose in what other countries are doing? And do these recent events in Venezuela do anything to diminish "America First"?
    99% of Americans know almost nothing about Venezuela.

    Almost nobody in America was calling for the US government to interfere with Venezuela's internal politics except for a tiny minority of swamp creatures in imperial cities from across western civilization.

    This is pure aggression on the part of the US government. They haven't even bothered to articulate a defensive pretext for their hostility towards Venezuela, just like they didn't bother with Syria.

    As for your question about the US-backing the opposition in Venezuela, I think that pretty much goes without saying. Any country that is the target of US sanctions is being subjected to a nonstop covert "regime change" operation, part of which involves organizing and militarizing a domestic opposition.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    What if US diplomats are seized, harmed, or killed?
    Do they qualify as genuine diplomats when they're in Venezuela actively organizing a coup against the host nation?
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Ackbar View Post
    Everyone can calm down. I assure you Russia is not going to war with the United States over Venezuela. Just as you can rest assured the United States is not going to war with Russia over Ukraine.

    In both cases power will be ceded to the appropriate power after sufficient face saving threats are made.
    This assumes rationality and competence will prevail.

    But history belies the wisdom of such an assumption.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyz View Post
    The coup leader and his military probably has guaranteed the safety of US citizens there. No US military needed so far. If Maduro's comrades take up arms it will change my opinion.
    It makes no difference what Maduro and his faction do inside their own country. The US has no right to invade or otherwise attack another country that hasn't attacked it first. And without a declaration of war, the US government has no constitutional authority to engage in military actions against the state of Venezuela.
    Power always thinks it has a great soul, and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak. And that it is doing God service when it is violating all His laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Another country that poses zero threat to America being prepared for an illegal and disastrous "regime change" operation.

    The presumption by the Trump administration that they have the authority to dictate who is and is not the legal president of another sovereign nation is breathtaking in its arrogance and hypocrisy.

    The Trump administration has NO RIGHT to decide who the president of Venezuela is. The Trump administration's position is tantamount to a unilateral declaration of war by the executive branch.

    And Trump's administration isn't even attempting to make a serious argument that Venezuela's government poses a real threat to America. They have simply declared that the Venezuelan government must go, and they have done this without the slightest consultation with or approval from the American people.

    Trump clearly fancies himself a king.
    Agreed, there is a process under international law to follow in order to declare a belligerency and then support it.

    It isn't just the US. Many other nations to include Canada has recognized the upstart.
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    Ethereal (01-26-2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    So far the US and other nations have expressed support for Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guido. In response Venezuelan president Maduro told US diplomats to exit the country in 72 hours.

    The US then said Maduro no longer has governmental authority and the US would not recall its Ambassador.

    Now Russia warns the US to not take military action in Venezuela.



    So, would the US use military force? Certainly if US diplomats are attacked it would. Would Russia respond militarily even if a US military response was limited to protect its diplomatic staff? This could spiral out of control.

    Also Turkey supports Maduro.
    Turkey? How do they matter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdon View Post
    Turkey? How do they matter?
    They are part of NATO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This assumes rationality and competence will prevail.

    But history belies the wisdom of such an assumption.
    Nations act in their interests. No ones interests are served by a war over this
    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"----Fletcher in The Outlaw Josey Wales

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    So far the US and other nations have expressed support for Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guido. In response Venezuelan president Maduro told US diplomats to exit the country in 72 hours.

    The US then said Maduro no longer has governmental authority and the US would not recall its Ambassador.

    Now Russia warns the US to not take military action in Venezuela.



    So, would the US use military force? Certainly if US diplomats are attacked it would. Would Russia respond militarily even if a US military response was limited to protect its diplomatic staff? This could spiral out of control.

    Also Turkey supports Maduro.
    The real issue is Russian influence and support. If it weren't for oil nobody would care. For the US to declare that Maduro has "no authority" is part an parcel with the arrogance that other nations say we have. ANY US military support will be out of the question in my view as the US will not let Trump get away with it, and we'd quickly devolve into another Syrian situation. Putin is taking every advantage of the situation by landing military planes just to make a point; so stay away from RTV. I think that the saber rattling will continue and Venezuela will fight it out with themselves.

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    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    So far the US and other nations have expressed support for Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guido. In response Venezuelan president Maduro told US diplomats to exit the country in 72 hours.

    The US then said Maduro no longer has governmental authority and the US would not recall its Ambassador.

    Now Russia warns the US to not take military action in Venezuela.



    So, would the US use military force? Certainly if US diplomats are attacked it would. Would Russia respond militarily even if a US military response was limited to protect its diplomatic staff? This could spiral out of control.

    Also Turkey supports Maduro.
    I don't believe the Russians would retaliate militarily if the US deployed forces to Venezuela on the guise of rescuing American citizens. They don't want to engage the US in the Western Hemisphere.


    Besides, I don't see this getting out of control. I think the military will turn on Maduro and that'll be the end of him.


    Turkey's support of Maduro isn't a serious issue in this.
    Last edited by Tahuyaman; 01-28-2019 at 02:45 AM.

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