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Thread: The Real Lesson of the Shutdown

  1. #11
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    Chris has extremely detailed fantasies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    People take a lot for granted. A government shutdown doesn't mean business as usual when the full effects are realized. The first to feel the effects would be business, in innumerable ways, which could result in layoffs. The downstream effects would affect everyone.
    Do you ever get the feeling that having discussions such as these, is like trying to explain to someone why water is wet?
    “Conscientiously believing that the proper condition of the negro is slavery, or a complete subjection to the white man, and entertaining the belief that the day is not distant when the old Union will be restored with slavery nationally declared to be the proper condition of all of African descent, and in view of the future harmony and progress of all the States of America, I have been induced to issue this address, so that there may be no misunderstanding in the future”

    - Jefferson Davis

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Who, you lay out an imaginative causal chain all without explaining causation at any step. Possibility doesn't imply probability or even plausibility. Your imagination lacks one thing: Imagining life without a government telling you what to do.

    Private people and businesses were already picking up the slack of the non-essentials, and would continue to do so. Causation: Profit. Essentials would find other work before they and their families starved. Causation: Hunger, desire to care for family.
    Chris, you always overlook the ways in which government mitigates many of the more unpleasant realities of the free market. You also ignore the fact that nothing comes into the country without federal oversight or the fact that federal regulations impact business and that a government shutdown does not suspend the regulations - it just creates an impasse that leaves businesses in the lurch - between a rock and a hard place. The existence of the Commerce Clause in the Constitution should give you a hint as to the federal overall involvement in commerce.

    America doesn't simply survive on domestic manufacturing and domestic consumption. It has exports and imports. Even many exports require a federal stamp of approval before they are acceptable in other markets. If the planes can't fly or land, a great many goods will not move in or out of America. If foreign ships can't dock, they can't pick up goods for foreign markets or bring in goods for domestic markets. This would have a profound affect on business. You fluff it off like it's nothing. People will lose their jobs and those employment losses will kill other businesses. Everything is connected.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    Do you ever get the feeling that having discussions such as these, is like trying to explain to someone why water is wet?
    How do you explain the color blue to someone who is blind, especially when they don't want to know?
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    ...causal chain all without explaining causation at any step.

    But let's play along with your imagination. Let's say the effect were felt by everyone. Everyone would realize it was a small price to pay to wake up to the fact that most of the government is a big waste. And only wonder why they hadn't woken up sooner.
    No, everyone would not see it as a small price to pay. Everyone losing their jobs, having their wages cut and facing food shortages would be angry and want the responsible person's head on a stick.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau... 1849

    Thoreau was right.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    No, everyone would not see it as a small price to pay. Everyone losing their jobs, having their wages cut and facing food shortages would be angry and want the responsible person's head on a stick.
    Remember, the EPA and other regulatory agencies put people out of work all the time (learn to code) and shed not one tear about it. (How many tears do you think that ACO and her cronies will shed about insurance company employees they put out of work? -- I can tell you: none) Shortly after the 2016 election, I saw an article something along this line about how Washington forgot that closing businesses and putting people on welfare or handouts was a real thing and that those people struck back at the elites. Do you really expect people in flyover country to give one rat's ass about some federal employee being laid off - while knowing that they'll get all of their back pay?
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    No, everyone would not see it as a small price to pay. Everyone losing their jobs, having their wages cut and facing food shortages would be angry and want the responsible person's head on a stick.
    Uh, everyone? A few.

    You seem to see people as helpless and stupid, as in "How do you explain the color blue to someone who is blind, especially when they don't want to know?"
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    Remember, the EPA and other regulatory agencies put people out of work all the time (learn to code) and shed not one tear about it. (How many tears do you think that ACO and her cronies will shed about insurance company employees they put out of work? -- I can tell you: none) Shortly after the 2016 election, I saw an article something along this line about how Washington forgot that closing businesses and putting people on welfare or handouts was a real thing and that those people struck back at the elites. Do you really expect people in flyover country to give one rat's ass about some federal employee being laid off - while knowing that they'll get all of their back pay?

    Another prime example is raising the minimum wage. Another rent control. Another regulating small business out of business. Regulating red tape preventing start ups. But, no, Trump $#@!s down the government and oh moy how it harms people!
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. ― Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGUtley View Post
    Remember, the EPA and other regulatory agencies put people out of work all the time (learn to code) and shed not one tear about it. (How many tears do you think that ACO and her cronies will shed about insurance company employees they put out of work? -- I can tell you: none) Shortly after the 2016 election, I saw an article something along this line about how Washington forgot that closing businesses and putting people on welfare or handouts was a real thing and that those people struck back at the elites. Do you really expect people in flyover country to give one rat's ass about some federal employee being laid off - while knowing that they'll get all of their back pay?
    Of course not.

    But I'lll take it.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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