Socialism, the history of such

[Chris]

How can socialism work without tyranny? Who decides when there are disagreements? How are decisions enforced?

I gave you way more credit than you deserve for being smart.

When you decide for you and I decide for me no centralization is required nor is it desired.

Ad hom is not an argument. Try again. Come up with a reasonable argument.

[Chris]

How can socialism work without tyranny? Who decides when there are disagreements? How are decisions enforced?

Once again you dodged. You won't answer. Why?

No, the answer to why socialism won't work without tyranny is the same answer to why capitalism won't.

[Chris]

Complete free market would bring it's own form of tyranny

Yes, now would anyone really care to delve into why that is? The answer is not socialism or capitalism but something the deeper that the two have in common.

[Chris]

Heaven forbid that I should argue Chris's side of the argument but he does have a valid point. The fly in the ointment for both socialism and capitalism is corruption in central government and it does seem to be historically endemic to human civilization, at least since the evolution of the state. There always seem to be those who wish to co-opt government to their own and other's special interests, both from within and without government. His question, which has validity, is how can that really be prevented?

Whether you call it tyranny or corruption, the question is what is it about socialism and capitalism that leaves people defenseless against such corruption.

Here's a hint. It came up earlier in discussing primitive tribes, when we discussed traditional economics, as it existed up into the Medieval Period.

[Chris]

Dr, there is a HUGE difference between Socialism and Individual rights. Use your imagination, who is asking for you to designate a Gov't account number to deposit your hard earned paycheck into. lmao, agreeing to deposit your paycheck into an account a politician decides how to spend?

You are impressing me so far as extremely naïve and foolish. Or maybe you are on food stamps, Section 8 housing, Medicaid, etc... because you jipped school, never studied, and do drugs all day and wake up at 2 in afternoon.

Uh, no, theres not really. Socialism is as individualistic and egalitarian as capitalism. Now there's a huge hint.

Socialism is just a variation on capitalism, it is derived from capitalism but for a single aspect, in capitalism the owner decides how to distribute the value of production, in socialism the workers do--in both, however, through democracy, direct or representative, control is centralized and central planners decide.

The question is why can't that centralization of political power be resisted?

[testsubjectalpha]

You are correct, the Socialist country tells their citizens if you want to go to college you must go out of country because you will not go to college in your home country. We the political class do not deem you worthy of higher education.

Nothing stops them from paying for an education if they want more than what the state will pay for.

[donttread]

DO you mean these numbers?

I mean the numbers that show the WEALTH concentration of the top ONE percent growing since around 1980. You are talking about the percentage INCOME gains made the TOP 20%

[Chris]

I mean the numbers that show the WEALTH concentration of the top ONE percent growing since around 1980. You are talking about the percentage INCOME gains made the TOP 20%

Those numbers I posted from the CBO say the poorest gained the most--the exact opposite of your complaint. Look at the numbers again.

[Dr. Who]

Dr, there is a HUGE difference between Socialism and Individual rights. Use your imagination, who is asking for you to designate a Gov't account number to deposit your hard earned paycheck into. lmao, agreeing to deposit your paycheck into an account a politician decides how to spend?

You are impressing me so far as extremely naïve and foolish. Or maybe you are on food stamps, Section 8 housing, Medicaid, etc... because you jipped school, never studied, and do drugs all day and wake up at 2 in afternoon.

You are massively off-base. I have never received any form of assistance in my entire life and while I am currently 63, I continue to work for a living and have owned my home outright for many years. I just don't happen to think that the examples of state socialism thus far have been free of corruption - in fact quite the opposite. Nor is capitalism free of corruption. The major difference in my view is that in general, the capitalist world has gone out of its way to sanction and otherwise tried to destroy self-described socialist economies. That doesn't change the fact that both types of economies contain internal rot and corruption in the highest quarters. The so-called free market does not really exist because of corruption in the world that creates monopolistic forces with government protections.

FYI, your ownership by government begins the day that you are born and registered and is consummated on that day that your social security number is issued. The NSA and Homeland Security constantly monitor your telephone and internet activity and given a state of war, you can be conscripted. If you fail to pay your taxes you will be imprisoned unless the government can sell your property to cover your debt. Your land can be expropriated at any time at the will of government because despite purchasing the land, you do not enjoy allodial title. The Federal Reserve Bank is a third party operation that is effectively part of both the IMF and the World Bank and operates at the whim of global interests.

Tell me about your actual freedom.

[Dr. Who]

You are correct, the Socialist country tells their citizens if you want to go to college you must go out of country because you will not go to college in your home country. We the political class do not deem you worthy of higher education.

No - they can pay for an education in their own countries. Foreign students are permitted to pay for an education at their Universities, so their own citizens are not barred from doing so.