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Thread: Socialism, the history of such

  1. #21
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    donttread's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I was fully expecting an argument that primitive tribes were socialists/communists because they were cooperative. Dr Who likes to argue that one. But capitalism is based on cooperation, too, seen in every voluntary exchange. Heck, far back as Aristotle we have a definition of man as reasoning, social beings. We cooperate naturally. But that doesn't make us all socialists.

    Many H&G tribes had a defined communistic bent to their economic structure. Similar labor, similar trappings of success , cooperative work and often considerable sharing. What would you label them? Capitalist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Many H&G tribes had a defined communistic bent to their economic structure. Similar labor, similar trappings of success , cooperative work and often considerable sharing. What would you label them? Capitalist?
    No, they didn't.

    No, they weren't capitalists either.
    Whoever criticizes capitalism, while approving immigration, whose working class is its first victim, had better shut up. Whoever criticizes immigration, while remaining silent about capitalism, should do the same.


    ~Alain de Benoist


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    testsubjectalpha's Avatar Senior Member
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    I simply forward the idea of individual self determination v. the rule of the 'collective.' That's all. The 'collective' throughout all of human existence has produced the greatest pain and suffering of the people the world has ever known. It's never a good idea to allow others, specifically lying politicians, to define your morals and values for you.





    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    I'm guessing that many of your replies will be that socialism is the cause of everything that has ever gone wrong anywhere! And despite it's recurrence at certain points of different societies development that it has never worked even for one person for one day. And Capitalism is the source of all good and light. And that most of them think we are still Capitalistic entirely. LOL
    In reality almost all current systems are some type of hybrid. Then there are other systems like the corporate controlled economics that dominate modern day America.
    I am not a socialist. I just think the type of answers I am describing and overly simplistic to the point of being child like. However, maybe I'm wrong and you'll get a meaningful discussion instead. I haven't looked so to not taint my prediction

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    Many H&G tribes had a defined communistic bent to their economic structure. Similar labor, similar trappings of success , cooperative work and often considerable sharing. What would you label them? Capitalist?
    Capitalism is cooperative as well, but I wouldn't call them capitalists. Capitalism didn't emerge till the Enlightenment, socialism later in opposition to it.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Chris, nothing wrong with cooperation. Socialism on the other hand has nothing to do with cooperation. It's about a ruling elite telling you what you are worth and limiting your aspirations according to some politician's assessment of your worth to society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donttread View Post
    I'm guessing that many of your replies will be that socialism is the cause of everything that has ever gone wrong anywhere! And despite it's recurrence at certain points of different societies development that it has never worked even for one person for one day. And Capitalism is the source of all good and light. And that most of them think we are still Capitalistic entirely. LOL
    In reality almost all current systems are some type of hybrid. Then there are other systems like the corporate controlled economics that dominate modern day America.
    I am not a socialist. I just think the type of answers I am describing and overly simplistic to the point of being child like. However, maybe I'm wrong and you'll get a meaningful discussion instead. I haven't looked so to not taint my prediction

    If our economy is mixed it isn't a mix of capitalism and socialism but a mix of free and fixed markets, the free being what the ruling class--world leaders in politics, corporations, banking, media--wants to fix for themselves.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by testsubjectalpha View Post
    I simply forward the idea of individual self determination v. the rule of the 'collective.' That's all. The 'collective' throughout all of human existence has produced the greatest pain and suffering of the people the world has ever known. It's never a good idea to allow others, specifically lying politicians, to define your morals and values for you.

    Not sure I understand what you mean by the collective. A group of people? You seem to mean rather a group of elites, a ruling class.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by testsubjectalpha View Post
    Chris, nothing wrong with cooperation. Socialism on the other hand has nothing to do with cooperation. It's about a ruling elite telling you what you are worth and limiting your aspirations according to some politician's assessment of your worth to society.
    So then you define socialism as central planning and control. Sort of like what we have in the US.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    follow the whistle of everything in life should be free. sit on your ass, jip school, make babies, do drugs, and tell others to stay the $#@! out of your business until you want others to fund your monthly US Treasury deposit.

    Not sure you understand?






    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Not sure I understand what you mean by the collective. A group of people? You seem to mean rather a group of elites, a ruling class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by testsubjectalpha View Post
    follow the whistle of everything in life should be free. sit on your ass, jip school, make babies, do drugs, and tell others to stay the $#@! out of your business until you want others to fund your monthly US Treasury deposit.

    Not sure you understand?

    Huh? I asked you what you mean by collective. Could you answer?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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