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Thread: Socialism, the history of such

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    "Critics claim that this economic and social progress is due in part to the fact that almost 66% of the income received by the City of Marinaleda is from administrative superiors such as the state, the autonomous community, and the Provincial Council of Seville."


    The state subsidizes the communist community. Look deeper and one finds political organs with the authority to decide.
    Nice try.

    The state subsidizes corporations under capitalism. Again, a shared attribute, like state subsidies, state regulation, etc, does not distinguish anything.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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  3. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Same answer as explained before. Same way as when any group of individuals disagrees. There is no difference. Centralization of power. Like we have now. Individualism in capitalism just the same as in socialism offers no defense against the centralization of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    When the socialists and the owners do not agree how is the disagreement resolved?

    Don't dodge as you have the last half dozen times I have asked you.

    You dodged again. Then you added gobbledygook.

    The answers are the same in socialism and capitalism.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    In a coop, the workers are the owners yes, that's socialism. All socialism is is the workers democratically choosing how to distribute the value produced.
    Nope. You err. You live in Texas. Look out your window. There are plenty of co-ops near you. All of them have individual owners who agree to co-operate in some limited ways for their mutual benefit.
    True, Valve is owned by a single owner but he allows the workers to run the company. Read up on it instead of making nonce bets.
    The owner gets to decide.

    Marinaleda, Spain.
    I blew this nonsense out of the water. It gets 2/3rds of its wealth from the state. It also has political organs who make the decisions.
    Last edited by MisterVeritis; 02-12-2019 at 01:01 PM.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

    The Wall: If we build it, they will not come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Same answer as explained before. Same way as when any group of individuals disagrees. There is no difference. Centralization of power. Like we have now. Individualism in capitalism just the same as in socialism offers no defense against the centralization of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Nope. You err. You live in Texas. Look out your window. There are plenty of co-ops near you. All of them have indivvidual owners who agree to co-operate in some limited ways for their mutuala benefit.

    The owner gets to decide.


    I blew this nonsense out of the water. It gets 2/3rds of its wealth from the state. It also has political organs who make the decisions.


    A coop is owned individually? Makes no sense. Cooperating with oneself?

    No, the workers decide.

    No, even under capitalism the state subsidizes corporations.


    Why do you think merely repeating yourself is an argument?
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    A coop is owned individually? Makes no sense. Cooperating with oneself?
    If you are trying to convince me you are an ignoramuss you have succeeded. Congratulations.
    The owner gets to decide.
    No, the workers decide.
    Nope. Once there is a critical disagreement the owner will decide.
    I blew this nonsense out of the water. It gets 2/3rds of its wealth from the state. It also has political organs who make the decisions.
    No, even under capitalism the state subsidizes corporations.
    In addition to getting most of their money from the state, the so-called communist village is run by a government.
    Why do you think merely repeating yourself is an argument?
    I refuted every nonsense thing you posted. What more do you want?
    Last edited by MisterVeritis; 02-12-2019 at 01:28 PM.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    If you are trying to convince me you are an ignoramuss you have succeeded. Congratulations.
    The owner gets to decide.

    Nope. Once there is a critical disagreement the owner will decide.
    I blew this nonsense out of the water. It gets 2/3rds of its wealth from the state. It also has political organs who make the decisions.
    In addition to getting most of their money from the state they so-called communist vvillage is run by a government.

    I refuted every nonsense thing you posted. What more do you want?

    You're just repeating assertions I already responded to. Why are you wasting my time let alone yours? Advance the argument.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    You're just repeating assertions I already responded to. Why are you wasting my time let alone yours? Advance the argument.
    Not one of your examples involves socialism. You have failed.

    What else do you have?
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

    The Wall: If we build it, they will not come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Not one of your examples involves socialism. You have failed.

    What else do you have?
    All of them did involve socialism. All of your assertions were rebutted. See above. Rebutted, you merely repeat your assertions. It's your standard MO.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    All of them did involve socialism. All of your assertions were rebutted. See above. Rebutted, you merely repeat your assertions. It's your standard MO.
    None of them involved socialism.

    Co-ops are created by owners who agree to pool some resources. This is not socialism.

    A gaming company lets its workers participate in decision-making. The owner remains the owner and has the final decisionmaking authority. This is not socialism.

    Your so-called communist village gets most of its money from the state. It is run by the village government. This is not socialism.
    I think we are done. Your top three examples are all failures.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.

    The Wall: If we build it, they will not come.

  11. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    None of them involved socialism.

    Co-ops are created by owners who agree to pool some resources. This is not socialism.

    A gaming company lets its workers participate in decision-making. The owner remains the owner and has the final decisionmaking authority. This is not socialism.

    Your so-called communist village gets most of its money from the state. It is run by the village government. This is not socialism.
    I think we are done. Your top three examples are all failures.

    Wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

    No, at Valve the workers decide everything. Your evidence was "wanna bet?"

    The town in Spain is socialist. That is gets subsidies from the state changes nothing.


    Those are called counterarguments. Repeating your assertions does not counter them. They stand till you come up with counterarguments.

    Also, those were examples and are not that main argument about what socialism is. It is the workers deciding how to distribute the value produced by labor. It is not coercion as you repeat.
    Edmund Burke: "In vain you tell me that Artificial Government is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

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