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Thread: Limbaugh is Over. It is time to go to the Virtual Range

  1. #21
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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Obviously you think "large caliber" is a 5.56. It's a $#@! round with near zero kick.
    Must you soil yourself in every thread you are in?
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Obviously you think "large caliber" is a 5.56. It's a $#@! round with near zero kick.
    Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about... again.

    Rifles and firearms in general don't "kick". They "recoil".

    That is more than just a issue of semantics. The use of the proper terminology goes far to demonstrate whether you have even a base knowledge of whatever topic you are discussing, not just firearms.

    Example... Cordite hasn't been used as a bullet propellant for a long time. If you smell Cordite on the range, you are shooting some antique $#@!. I doubt that is the case. You have just read too many novels in which the author, with no more firearm knowledge than you have talks about the "smell of Cordite".

    Regarding the .556mm round. Using the right bullet, the .556 round is far from being a "$#@! round", whatever that is. The military has had trouble with it, often requiring multiple hits to take down a target, but that is not the fault of the caliber. It is because they are limited by treaty from using more effective bullet designs. The US went from a 55 grain bullet to a 62 grain bullet, but the bullet designs themselves differed little. Elements within the Special Operations community went to a 77 grain bullet with great effect.

    The current push to move to a 6.8mm bullet is really a solution in search of a problem. There are high lethality 5.56mm bullets available on the civilian market and law enforcement has been using them for years. The Hornady TAP round is a great example.

    That said, while I have no problems with the 5.56mm, it is not my first choice in a fighting rifle caliber. I actually prefer the 7.62x39mm (7.62 Russian for those who actually know guns). My "working" rifle these days is a CMMG Mutant and I have absolute confidence in its ability to solve just about any problem I might encounter. I certainly haven't got rid of any of my ARs in 5.56 because there is no reason to do so. The light recoil that you disparage is actually a big plus and is one of the reasons the 5.56 round was chosen to replace the 7.62 x 51mm as our standard service cartridge.

    With regard to shooting... I guess some people feel more manly if their gun makes a lot of noise, kicks up a lot of dust, and beats them up with the recoil. They guy I shoot regularly with prefers the .338 Lapua, a round I don't particularly enjoy shooting. Of course, he hits at 3000+ yards consistently. Last year, he was hitting at 1.72 miles at McMillan's test facility in Arizona. He tried to take it out to 3500 yards, but the weather worked went South and they had to cancel the shoot. Me, I prefer the 6.5 Creedmoor, what you would no doubt call another "$#@! round". It is a good mile cartridge. At 200 yards, the range you were talking about shooting, you shouldn't be putting anything into the "10 ring". You should be printing a very tight cloverleaf in the bullseye if you are shooting a standard paper target. If you are putting hits in the 10 ring, you have a lot of work to do.

    What caliber are you shooting that you don't consider to be a "$#@!" round? If I really want to feel "manly", I break out my Marlin 1895 GBL .45-70.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    MisterVeritis (02-09-2019),Peter1469 (02-09-2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Must you soil yourself in every thread you are in?
    I have never used a VR device for entertainment or training. I think it would be kind of fun and I can see some real potential as a training tool.
    Last edited by Cletus; 02-09-2019 at 01:40 PM.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    I love shooting a wide variety of weapons. The virtual ranges afford me the opportunity at no additional cost. The software designers have spent their time making sure the weapons sound, look and feel right. This is only the beginning.

    I have asked for ranges with trouble drills. Sometimes I want a weapon to jam, to misfire or misbehave. I want to practice under time pressure. That realism is coming.

    I prefer to fire the handguns over the shotguns and rifles. The software guys haven't figured out how to make long guns feel real enough yet.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    I have never used a VR device for entertainment or training. I think it would kind of fun and I can see some real potential as a training tool.
    I was skeptical about using it for training. Once I selected the Glock, a weapon I own, I was surprised at how similar it felt and sounded. Because I can fire almost every day my accuracy and speed have both increased. I am even getting better at keeping track of the number of rounds remaining.

    At first, I selected 100 round drums so I could spend all my time firing. Now I use the 17 round magazines for almost all my shooting pleasure.

    I asked the software guys for the ability to shoot weak hand. They showed me how I can switch the magazine pouch from one side to the other.

    I have essential tremors so practice is important. After between ten and 15 minutes my tremors prevent me from easily staying on target. I have learned to compensate for my real tremors so I can still put rounds into the center of mass of the largest present target.

    There is a game called Bullet Train that is coming. The enemy looks and moves realistically. I have an early release version. I think it shows great promise.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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  8. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    I was skeptical about using it for training. Once I selected the Glock, a weapon I own, I was surprised at how similar it felt and sounded. Because I can fire almost every day my accuracy and speed have both increased. I am even getting better at keeping track of the number of rounds remaining.
    The G17 is a great handgun. My Duty Gun is a G31. My daily carry is a G32. Honey Badger has two G17s. I have one. Her daily daily carry is varies between a G19 and Ruger LC9sPro. The Ruger is a little more compact and easier for a woman to conceal. She also has a G31C, which is kind of rare these days. Glock makes an excellent platform. For demonstration purposes, I regularly make 200 yard shots with the G17. It doesn't have a lot of practical application, but it does show the capability of the gun.
    At what simulated ranges does your VR device let you shoot? When I train armed professionals, we train at 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yards. For armed citizens, I generally work them at 1, 3, 5, and 7 yards.

    Do the programs you use have specific shooting drills or are they more like combat scenarios? One of my favorite drills is what is called "45 Drill". It was developed by a guy named Richard Mann and it is called that because it consists of 4 factors of 5. You start in the holster and from 5 yards, fire 5 rounds into a 5" target in 5 seconds. It is a good drill to test basic defensive pistol proficiency.

    Just a recommendation... don't worry about counting rounds. It is an unnecessary distraction. Either shoot until the slide locks back and do a speed (combat) reload or when you have a lull in the action, do a tactical reload to top off.

    I asked the software guys for the ability to shoot weak hand. They showed me how I can switch the magazine pouch from one side to the other.
    Weak hand shooting is an important skill that is neglected way too often. Good on you.
    I have essential tremors so practice is important. After between ten and 15 minutes my tremors prevent me from easily staying on target. I have learned to compensate for my real tremors so I can still put rounds into the center of mass of the largest present target.
    Even without tremors, you would want to shoot center mass of the target presented. Surgical shots are best left to the movies.

    It sounds like you know what you need to train on and are taking advantage of technology to help you do it. That is great. I hope you still have opportunities to get to a live fire range from time to time, but when you can't, it sounds like you may have found the next best thing.

    I almost forgot to ask, what do you hold in your hand when you are using that device. Is it a G17 mock up or something different?
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about... again....
    Awesome yet you spend some much time talking to someone who you do not respect. Why is that?

    I need to sight in my Mosin-Nagant, DPMS Oracle and Marlin 1895 stainless but if it's not one thing, it's another.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Awesome yet you spend some much time talking to someone who you do not respect. Why is that?
    Call it a form of self flagellation if you wish.

    Of course, it could be an attempt to educate you, although it does seem to a bit like tilting at windmills.

    I need to sight in my Mosin-Nagant, DPMS Oracle and Marlin 1895 stainless but if it's not one thing, it's another.
    The 1895 is a good rifle.

    Do yourself a favor and sell the other two and use the money you get to buy ammo for the Marlin.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    ...The 1895 is a good rifle.

    Do yourself a favor and sell the other two and use the money you get to buy ammo for the Marlin.
    Yes, it is, but it has the ballistics of a rainbow. Not good for long range, hence the other two. It's a great hog killer, although I expect it'd be a great grizzly bear killer too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Yes, it is, but it has the ballistics of a rainbow. Not good for long range, hence the other two. It's a great hog killer, although I expect it'd be a great grizzly bear killer too.
    Yeah, it does kind of have the ballistics of a mortar, but it hits hard. What caliber is yours, .45-70 or .444? The.444 actually has better ballistics than the .45-70 but I will stick with the classic. I bought mine specifically for trekking in bear and big cat country. Mine is an 1895GBL, but I wouldn't mind getting the 1895 Trapper. You mentioned yours was stainless. Is that the one you have? I know they make a couple of other variants in stainless, as well. Any of them would be excellent rifles.

    An interesting point about the .45-70... The .458 SOCOM is actually an offshoot of that cartridge. Members of the Special Operation Community were looking for a round that hit as hard as the .45-70 but could be fired from an AR platform. That request led to the development of the .458 SOCOM.

    Have you figured out what load you prefer in that cannon. Most of the time, I run Hornady 325 grain polymer tipped ammo that produces a little over 3000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle, but if you really want to make sure that what you shoot is going to stay dead, load it up with Buffalo Bore ammo. They have loads that will produce greater than 3600 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. The Buffalo Bore rounds are over pressured and not safe for use in all guns, but your 1895 will eat them like candy.
    Last edited by Cletus; 02-09-2019 at 03:47 PM.
    “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

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