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Thread: Court rules families of Sandy Hook shooting victims can sue gunmaker Remington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    Nevertheless, they are not suing under the legal principle of "negligent entrustment" but instead alleging a violation of CUTPA (Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act):

    ec. 42-110b. Unfair trade practices prohibited. Legislative intent. (a) No person shall engage in unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce.(b) It is the intent of the legislature that in construing subsection (a) of this section, the commissioner and the courts of this state shall be guided by interpretations given by the Federal Trade Commission and the federal courts to Section 5(a)(1) of the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 USC 45(a)(1)), as from time to time amended.(c) The commissioner may, in accordance with chapter 54, establish by regulation acts, practices or methods which shall be deemed to be unfair or deceptive in violation of subsection (a) of this section. Such regulations shall not be inconsistent with the rules, regulations and decisions of the federal trade commission and the federal courts in interpreting the provisions of the Federal Trade Commission Act.(d) It is the intention of the legislature that this chapter be remedial and be so construed.
    But the person who committed the murder was not a target of "unfair trade practices." It is settled law, that a criminal act between point A (the marketing in this case) / point B, the purchase, and point D (the mass shooting) blocks the chain of causation for legal purposes. Point C would be the son murdering the mother for the guns.
    Last edited by Peter1469; 03-16-2019 at 09:13 AM.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    Every judge who behaves this way ought to be eligible for hanging.
    I could be on board with that
    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"----Fletcher in The Outlaw Josey Wales

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    Can you spell ruling overturned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    It won't go anywhere. The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act protects them from bull$#@! lawsuits like this. The judge who let this go forward should be removed from the bench for incompetence, then beat with an ugly stick for wasting everyone's time.
    If you don't mind, I'm using a brand new Ugly Stick for surf casting that I won in a raffle this past winter, Got a Penn reel on it...I'd rather it not be used for beating someone.....wait...….oh...….there are no upper case letters there.....you just meant the phrase 'ugly stick' rather than the dependable Ugly Stick fishing rod? Well then.....sorry....I stand corrected...carry on with the beatings!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    You are all missing the forest for the trees. This lawsuit is not about the sales of guns, but the method i.e. advertising practices that encourage buyers to think that they are acquiring a military weapon - “the ultimate combat weapons system.”
    We are not missing anything. This is leftist tyranny intended to bankrupt weapons manufacturers or drive them out of the country.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1469 View Post
    But the person who committed the murder was not a target of "unfair trade practices." It is settled law, that a criminal act between point A (the marketing in this case) / point B, the purchase, and point D (the mass shooting) blocks the chain of causation for legal purposes. Point C would be the son murdering the mother for the guns.

    The lawsuit seeks to avoid the usual chain of causation by arguing that the messages used in the promotion of the Bushmaster as a military weapon would appeal to a troubled individual like Lanza, which may have influenced him to choose the XM15 from among his mother's guns when he attacked the elementary school, and that the attack would have been less deadly had he used a different gun.


    Of course, even if a jury could buy the first part of that argument, can its conclusion be supported? What weapons did his mother own? Apparently two semi-automatic handguns, several traditional hunting rifles including a .45 Henry rifle, a .30 Enfield rifle, and a .22 Marlin rifle, a Savage Mark II .22-caliber rifle as well as the Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle. Lanza brought with him a 10 mm Glock 20SF, a 9 mm SIG Sauer P226, an Izhmash Saiga-12 shotgun rifle and the .223 caliber Bushmaster XM15-E2S. He left the Izhmash in the car. As with the Bushmaster, the handguns were also equipped with high-capacity 30-round magazines.


    "On March 28, 2013, court documents released from the investigation showed that the school shooting had occurred in the space of less than five minutes with 156 shots fired. This comprised 154 shots from the rifle and two shots from the 10mm pistol. Lanza fired one shot from the Glock in the hallway and killed himself with another shot from the pistol to the head".


    So the job of Class Counsel would be to somehow prove that Lanza could not have killed as many with the semi-automatic handguns. How is the XM15-E2S any more lethal than the handguns? Perhaps this argument will be advanced:


    "According to radiologist Heather Sher in a piece for The Atlantic, who treated several students injured in the recent shooting at a South Florida high school, a regular handgun leaves linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of a bullet. The weapons are low velocity and often leave non-fatal wounds.

    On the other hand, bullets from an AR-15 and weapons similar to it travel almost three times faster than those of a routine handgun. The shooter can cause more damage while being less accurate, and the wounds are often far more lethal."
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4043345/a...ds-difference/
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Who View Post
    The lawsuit seeks to avoid the usual chain of causation by arguing that the messages used in the promotion of the Bushmaster as a military weapon would appeal to a troubled individual like Lanza, which may have influenced him to choose the XM15 from among his mother's guns when he attacked the elementary school, and that the attack would have been less deadly had he used a different gun.


    Of course, even if a jury could buy the first part of that argument, can its conclusion be supported? What weapons did his mother own? Apparently two semi-automatic handguns, several traditional hunting rifles including a .45 Henry rifle, a .30 Enfield rifle, and a .22 Marlin rifle, a Savage Mark II .22-caliber rifle as well as the Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle. Lanza brought with him a 10 mm Glock 20SF, a 9 mm SIG Sauer P226, an Izhmash Saiga-12 shotgun rifle and the .223 caliber Bushmaster XM15-E2S. He left the Izhmash in the car. As with the Bushmaster, the handguns were also equipped with high-capacity 30-round magazines.


    "On March 28, 2013, court documents released from the investigation showed that the school shooting had occurred in the space of less than five minutes with 156 shots fired. This comprised 154 shots from the rifle and two shots from the 10mm pistol. Lanza fired one shot from the Glock in the hallway and killed himself with another shot from the pistol to the head".


    So the job of Class Counsel would be to somehow prove that Lanza could not have killed as many with the semi-automatic handguns. How is the XM15-E2S any more lethal than the handguns? Perhaps this argument will be advanced:


    "According to radiologist Heather Sher in a piece for The Atlantic, who treated several students injured in the recent shooting at a South Florida high school, a regular handgun leaves linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of a bullet. The weapons are low velocity and often leave non-fatal wounds.

    On the other hand, bullets from an AR-15 and weapons similar to it travel almost three times faster than those of a routine handgun. The shooter can cause more damage while being less accurate, and the wounds are often far more lethal."
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4043345/a...ds-difference/
    You do love tyranny.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    We are not missing anything. This is leftist tyranny intended to bankrupt weapons manufacturers or drive them out of the country.
    Since there are many on the left that are also avid gun owners, I don't think that this "tyranny" is one of right or left but about safety.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    You do love tyranny.
    Actually, I find legal arguments intriguing.
    In quoting my post, you affirm and agree that you have not been goaded, provoked, emotionally manipulated or otherwise coerced into responding.



    "The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world’s problems.”
    Mahatma Gandhi

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    I have read the statute and the opinion, and several other opinions regarding the PLCAA. The exception to the PLCAA pertains to violation of state or federal law with respect to (among other things) marketing - which the Plaintiffs in Soto concede are not alleged. The case law holds that these marketing claims are barred by the PLCAA because they are preempted under federal law. I think that this Court is wrong. See: Prescott v. Slide Fire Solutions, LP, 341 F. Supp 1175 (2018) (Harvest Music Festival shooting)

    I predict that this will be reversed.
    Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect. -- Woody Hayes​

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