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Thread: But RUSSIA

  1. #21
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    montgomery's Avatar Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Many of the wars fought by the US are unnecessary and therefore harmful to the country. Much of the spending on the US "national security" apparatus is unnecessary and therefore harmful to the country. Even Trump believes that. Repeatedly throughout his campaign, he scorched the Iraq war and its architects. Two trillion and counting down the toilet. And that's just the direct costs. The indirect costs are probably just as large, if not larger. The Iraq war was a historic disaster for the country. It left a massive wound on our society that is still festering.
    You seem to have good intentions for an American, but sadly you're putting the cart before the horse and getting into it far over your head. Your politics have you forgetting that Trump got himself involved in a conspiracy with the Russians and he acted illegally to obstruct justice in several instances. The Dems say 10?

    So overall, the result of Trump needing to submit to Putin's/Russia's blackmail is a good thing for world peace, but still crimes by Trump. If you're ever willing to face reality, I think you're worth a conversation at least.

    p.s. don't you feel a bit foolish tryinig to make out that Trump opposed the Iraq war? Answer that if you think you're adult enoough to deal with it.

  2. #22
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    montgomery's Avatar Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterVeritis View Post
    It is always best to go to war very slowly. Although I have studied wars throughout the ages I find it very difficult to know whether a war is necessary or not. Sometimes the impacts are not obvious for many years.

    Reallly dumb again veritas. The Iraq war has been judged and all that's lacking is the hangings in the Hague of the Bush2 perps.

    I know your war was the Iraq war. I do not think we can judge it for at least two more decades.

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    Just AnotherPerson's Avatar Senior Member
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    But Saudi Arabia..........
    We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. We are all made from the same dust of stars. We cannot be separated because all life is interconnected.

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    Tahuyaman's Avatar Senior Member
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    The Blame America First crowd is in full form.

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    MisterVeritis's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Trump said it was a disaster. Said it over and over again. Many Americans voted for him because he said that. If Trump isn't going to do what he said and end these wars, then he should not expect those same people to vote for him again in 2020. So while you wait for two decades to assess that war, most of the country has already decided it was a historic disaster and not worth it. Naturally, they will vote accordingly, and people like me will encourage them to vote that way.
    President Trump may have said the Iraq war was a disaster. That doesn't mean we won't change our minds.

    I believe President Trump will have a much larger victory in 2020 than he id in 2016. Your mileage may vary.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    There are a lot of characters in GOT, so you'll have to be more specific.

    If you're referring to the evil acts of the GOT ruling class, then my answer is most definitely no. I am no saint, but there are lines I would never cross.
    The Game of Thrones is a story about the struggle for power and its maintenance. I do not believe for even one moment you do not struggle for power.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  7. #27
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    Originally Posted by MisterVeritis
    It is always best to go to war very slowly. Although I have studied wars throughout the ages I find it very difficult to know whether a war is necessary or not. Sometimes the impacts are not obvious for many years.

    Some goofball: dumb again veritas. The Iraq war has been judged and all that's lacking is the hangings in the Hague of the Bush2 perps.

    I know your war was the Iraq war. I do not think we can judge it for at least two more decades.

    Quote box failure. Feel free to judge the Iraq wars all you want. It won't change a thing as the adults come on line in a couple of decades. Maybe it will still be evaluated as a failure. Maybe it won't. I predict it will be views much differently in the future.
    Call your state legislators and insist they approve the Article V convention of States to propose amendments.


    I pledge allegiance to the Constitution as written and understood by this nation's founders, and to the Republic it created, an indivisible union of sovereign States, with liberty and justice for all.

  8. #28
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    pjohns's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It makes no difference to me. The only thing that really matters is that lots of Russians support Putin.
    So, it "makes no difference" to you if the Russian people largely support Putin because they have no real knowledge of him?That is simply an incredible statement...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Quite the opposite, actually. Putin has always been very clear about his desire for a cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship with the US.
    Did you get this from Russia Today, or Pravda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No. I'm suggesting that the country as a whole does not share your personal morality.
    My own "personal morality" is hardly the point here.Most of the country--at least, outside of enormous cities in dark blue states--does, in fact, share a similar set of ethics (which you mislabel as "personal morality.")

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    By the way, any morality that doesn't place high importance on materialist considerations isn't a very practical morality, especially for a large federation of States like the US.
    I suppose the sort of morality that I learned was not rooted in "materialist considerations"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Just because you personally believe it is moral to wage all these wars does not mean the rest of the country agrees. The US constitution was not ratified to carry out some abstract moral vision in faraway lands. There is nothing in the constitution that supports this moral vision foreign policy. And everything the founders ever wrote or said on the subject of foreign policy contradicts you. NONE of them believed in using the US government to export morality.
    If you really wish to discuss the ethics of waging war, you might wish to start another thread. But that is not at all the point of this thread. And it would appear that you hew to the doctrine of isolationism--dressed up, of course, in some appeal to the Founders (who were lived in a fundamentally different world).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Your foreign policy ideology is easily one of the most radical visions in world history. Bring MORALITY to the entire world, by force if necessary!
    I really do not know exactly what you mean by "MORALITY" (caps in original)--unless, perhaps, you mean that we have shown, by example, the clear superiority of Western Civilization. Even countries that are not geographically a part of the West--yet have embraced Western Civilization (e.g. South Korea and Japan) have done quite well.(By the way, I am quite aware that South Korea and Japan are not exactly BFFs. But that is beside the point.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That isn't how I intend it.
    Well, since you now know, I do hope that you will cease using an offensive term. (It is no better to use it than it is to describe a black person by the odious "N" word.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    And I don't really consider you a "neocon" because you are not powerful or influential.
    No, I am not.

    And I would guess that you are not, either.

    But I nonetheless have a right to my opinion (and yes, so do you).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I never said it was "America's" fault. I said it was the fault of the neocons who occupy high positions within the US government.
    The last that I checked, those neoconservatives in the US Government were appointed by the president that America elected (with the exception of a few holdovers from the previous administration). They did not simply force themselves upon an unwilling American people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Last I checked, nobody elected Bolton to anything.
    He was appointed by the person who was elected to office: President Trump.
    Last edited by pjohns; 04-26-2019 at 09:25 AM.

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    Lummy's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It makes no difference to me. The only thing that really matters is that lots of Russians support Putin ...
    Putin's positive public image in Western media agog at him seriously detracts from his dark personal political history that suggests he is a very dangerous man and definitely no one we want involved in American politics. The trail of dead people Putin has left behind during his career is similar to the Clintons' trail of dead. A smoking gun accompanies neither, but a good deal of unrebutted evidence points to Hillary bathing in the blood of Ambassador Chris Stevens and Benghazi US-dead.
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...chris-stevens/
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-attack.html

    It is time to prosecute her for her several crimes against our country -- a fundamentally good place where the likes of Putin should be barred.

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  11. #30
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    montgomery's Avatar Banned
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    Americans have been told that Putin is evil, etc., etc.
    The reason why that line of bull$#@! has been pushed so hard is because Putin is a strong and determined leader of Russia, and the US wants a weak Russian leader to deal with. America's hawks know that the only way to make any ground against Russia is a hot war, and that's out of the question. MAD (mutually assured destruction) Putin is not going to give dick all in any other way. Period!

    So hate Putin and call him evil. We know why of course!

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