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Thread: Are Lesbians Obliged to Support Mayor Pete 'Cause Gay?

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    Are Lesbians Obliged to Support Mayor Pete 'Cause Gay?

    Ellen DeGeneres and the LGBTQ Victory Fund have endorsed the presidential campaign of Pete Buttigieg because he's gay, yet many lesbians and bi women seem to favor female candidates instead. This includes me. The whole thing seems to be causing a bit of split in the so-called "$#@!" community. Why this? Don't gay people all have the same basic interests?

    The answer is no. We don't. Matter-of-factly, the fact that Buttigieg is gay and in his 30s are just about the only things I feel like I have in common with him. Many lesbian and bi women, in fact, feel that we have more in common with heterosexual women than with gay men, taken as a whole. The article sums up this situation well:

    $#@! women may prefer female candidates simply because they are more likely to address [female-specific] issues. Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand, for example, have debuted paid family-leave plans, while Harris has already introduced legislation to target the high maternal mortality rate for black women. Sen. Amy Klobuchar co-sponsored the Paycheck Fairness Act in 2014 and the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in 2009.
    By definition, neither Pete Buttigieg nor his husband will ever become pregnant, so any child they may have will be acquired either through adoption or (grumble grumble) surrogacy. I don't feel that he is hence able to personally understand issues surrounding pregnancy like the importance of paid family leave and reproductive rights, which might explain why he doesn't talk about or seem to prioritize those issues on the campaign trail. By definition he can't relate to these things on a level that even most men here could, being married to women and/or having a daughter.

    Likewise, his enthusiastic support for granting men access to the women's restroom and locker room and prison and so on may be explained in part by the fact that, as a strictly gay man, he can't personally understand how anyone might take advantage of such opportunities for voyeuristic purposes or worse because obviously he by definition wouldn't be so inclined.

    Buttigieg's adult life so far, similarly, has seen him go from military service to government. In other words, he seems to have spent his adult life in spaces that are one-sidedly dominated by men to a greater degree than most fields are today. He just hasn't spent and doesn't seem to spend much time around women in general. Putting all that together, I think the female candidates in this race can all understand someone like me and are more attuned what my needs, interests, and priorities are better than he can and is.

    He also just seems to be benefiting a lot from male privilege. The article points out some examples of what I mean by that:

    That idea—that Buttigieg is stealing the thunder of more qualified women—was a frequent source of concern. In the last week alone, Buttigieg has netted a New York magazine cover story, Politico magazine profile, and front page story in The New York Times. Kamala Harris, meanwhile—the only black woman in the race and the second-most successful fundraiser—has garnered exactly zero magazine covers for her run.

    ..

    “It’s unthinkable that a lesbian of color—or just a lesbian—could garner that same support based on his experience,” Wilson said. “The fact that a gay man is running is less significant than the fact that white men are granted the latitude to take themselves seriously enough as a candidate for the leading office in this country when they have very little political experience.”
    It's also not a coincidence, in my opinion, that most of the women running for the Democratic nomination are running on more left-leaning economic platforms than Mayor Pete is. Women understand women enough to know that women tend to be poorer than men. This applies to gay people as well: lesbians tend to be poorer than gay men. Indeed, the general significance with which the priorities of gay women are taken in the "$#@!" movement is well-concentrated in our historical exclusion from books and literature outlining the history of the movement. Much like among heterosexuals, women in the "$#@!" movement are and have always been taken less seriously, seen as less important, than our male counterparts.

    So, putting it all together, while Pete Buttigieg and I may both be gay, the fact that he is gay and male suggests to me, if anything, that at the end of the day, he may well be the candidate least able to understand someone like me and the least likely to stand up for lesbians in a broad sense. Being lesbian is a significantly different, indeed in many ways opposite, experience from being a gay man.
    Last edited by IMPress Polly; 05-05-2019 at 10:54 AM.

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    again with the identity politics. Why?
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    again with the identity politics. Why?
    I thought I laid out pretty rational arguments.

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    Many, many democrats -- I don't know how many but a lot! -- support Joe Biden because he's white!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I thought I laid out pretty rational arguments.
    Identity politics are divisive by their very nature.
    Is it your wish that some NOT be represented because of your political and personal beliefs?
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    Ellen DeGeneres and the LGBTQ Victory Fund have endorsed the presidential campaign of Pete Buttigieg because he's gay, yet many lesbians and bi women seem to favor female candidates instead. This includes me. The whole thing seems to be causing a bit of split in the so-called "$#@!" community. Why this? Don't gay people all have the same basic interests?

    The answer is no. We don't. Matter-of-factly, the fact that Buttigieg is gay and in his 30s are just about the only things I feel like I have in common with him. Many lesbian and bi women, in fact, feel that we have more in common with heterosexual women than with gay men, taken as a whole. The article sums up this situation well:



    By definition, neither Pete Buttigieg nor his husband will ever become pregnant, so any child they may have will be acquired either through adoption or (grumble grumble) surrogacy. I don't feel that he is hence able to personally understand issues surrounding pregnancy like the importance of paid family leave and reproductive rights, which might explain why he doesn't talk about or seem to prioritize those issues on the campaign trail. By definition he can't relate to these things on a level that even most men here could, being married to women and/or having a daughter.

    Likewise, his enthusiastic support for granting men access to the women's restroom and locker room and prison and so on may be explained in part by the fact that, as a strictly gay man, he can't personally understand how anyone might take advantage of such opportunities for voyeuristic purposes or worse because obviously he by definition wouldn't be so inclined.

    Buttigieg's adult life so far, similarly, has seen him go from military service to government. In other words, he seems to have spent his adult life in spaces that are one-sidedly dominated by men to a greater degree than most fields are today. He just hasn't spent and doesn't seem to spend much time around women in general. Putting all that together, I think the female candidates in this race can all understand someone like me and are more attuned what my needs, interests, and priorities are better than he can.

    He also just seems to be benefiting a lot from male privilege. The article points out some examples of what I mean by that:



    It's also not a coincidence, in my opinion, that most of the women running for the Democratic nomination are running on more left-leaning economic platforms than Mayor Pete is. Women understand women enough to know that women tend to be poorer than men. This applies to gay people as well: lesbians tend to be poorer than gay men. Indeed, the general significance with which the priorities of gay women are taken in the "$#@!" movement is well-concentrated in our historical exclusion from books and literature outlining the history of the movement. Much like among heterosexuals, women in the "$#@!" movement are and have always been taken less seriously, seen as less important, than our male counterparts.

    So, putting it all together, while Pete Buttigieg and I may both be gay, the fact that he is gay and male suggests to me, if anything, that at the end of the day, he may well be the candidate least able to understand someone like me and the least likely to stand up for lesbians in a broad sense. Being lesbian is a significantly different, indeed in many ways opposite, experience from being a gay man.
    This is what happens when all a party knows is identity politics. How about just supporting people who you believe will represent your interests, and quit concerning yourself with genitalia. Just a thought.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I thought I laid out pretty rational arguments.
    You thought wrong. There is nothing rational about voting for people based on their hoo-ha's.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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    Identity politics at its finest. If it ok to vote for some one based on their sexual perversions. Is also ok to not vote for them on that basis?
    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"----Fletcher in The Outlaw Josey Wales

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    You thought wrong. There is nothing rational about voting for people based on their hoo-ha's.
    I laid out a bunch of policy-oriented reasons and also why I don't feel that Buttigieg seems to share my policy priorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMPress Polly View Post
    I laid out a bunch of policy-oriented reasons and also why I don't feel that Buttigieg seems to share my policy priorities.
    Doesn't matter, the bottom line for you is still hoo ha.
    Cutesy Time is OVER

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