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Thread: Why Didn't Jefferson Manumit His Slaves?

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    There were not social justice warriors around for most of US history. The SJWs do not get to dictate how we act, much less how our fore-fathers acted.

    Throw them off campus.
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    He, or more accurately his estate, needed the money.

    IMO, it's a fool's errand to judge from 200+ years in the future.
    Jefferson was opposed to lotteries to raise state funds ...

    TJ attempted to raffle off his library to pay off the creditors he'd borrowed from to stock the library in the first place.

    Jefferson was really bad at money management.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Jefferson believed those words and tried to implement them in the real world. Sometimes, he failed. So if Jefferson was a hypocrite, then so is everyone else.
    You are missing the point

    Everyone but myself is a hypocrite. Therefore it's up to the reader to either accept the words at face value or reject them.

    Jefferson penned "All men are created equal" to establish an argument against tyranny.

    My point is that those words are either immortal and we should all aspire to understand g them and employing them in our daily lives and incorporating them into the very fabric of our government and or laws, simply because those words are immoral and self-evident true.

    Or we reject those words and apply some other, lesser standard.

    The Rodents reject the ideal.

    My question to them is thus "what is their proposed alternative?"

    You attempted to place some burden in myself, possibly implying I reject the Jeffersonian ideal.

    I do not. All men are supposed to be held equal before the law.

    Period.

    If you do not reject Jefferson ' s ideal, good. The ideal is independent of the flawed man that penned the immortal poetry.

    It's the poetry that matters.

    If any of you reject the poetry, state your ideal.
    Last edited by Sergeant Gleed; 05-06-2019 at 04:13 PM.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    So, let's see...

    Jefferson engaged in miscegnation, Franklin was a philanderer, Washington owned slaves, Jeff Davis owned slaves, but those were happy slaves, (Jeff was a Democrat president, after all), MLK was also a philsnderer, but he doesn't matter because the Rodents reject his teachings, Clinton is a rapist, Obama is an illegal alien and a Muslim and a homosexual and a traitor, but we are only going to focus on the character flaws to destroy the legacies of the men who built this mation, in order to destroy the nation itself.

    That's why this thread on Jefferson was posted, wasn't it, to destroy the ideals by smearing the man?

    Are we supposed to reject the Sermon on the Mount because Jesus was a cis-gendered male?
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I was just reading about some college students demanding the removal of a Thomas Jefferson statue from their campus. In the course of the debate, the subject of Jefferson's relationship to slavery came up as it usually does.

    One point in particular was Jefferson's failure to manumit his slaves. The main theory being proposed by some of Jefferson's detractors was that Jefferson was just a big-ass phony who lied about everything.

    Of course, we'll never KNOW what Jefferson's true motivations were. We can only make inferences based on the evidence. But I think the evidence tends to support a different theory than the one being put forth by Jefferson's haters. I think Jefferson was a man who genuinely believed in the ideals he espoused, but who, for reasons of human frailty and imperfection, simply failed to live up to them. I think Jefferson's words and actions indicate a clear and genuine opposition to slavery as a concept and as an institution. However, as Jefferson would say himself, the best way to oppose it in the real world at that time was not entirely obvious.

    I'm not saying there aren't criticisms of Jefferson to be made. Everyone can be fairly criticized for something. Jefferson isn't off limits. Nobody is. I just don't think that particular criticism of Jefferson is entirely fair.

    Note to forum members: This is a tPF thread posted in OSS. Personal commentary, bickering, meta-posting, etc. will not be tolerated. Comment substantively on the thread topic or feel free to start your own thread.
    I also think Jefferson was a product of the time he lived in. Lincoln is a good example
    of this. Lincoln was an abolitionist. There is no denying that. But Lincoln was also a racist. As were 99% of whites in 1863. They were raised and educated to be so. Their education extended only to the idea that whites were superior to blacks. The institution of slavery is a far different argument than the institution of racism.

    It is a fact that a racist can find slavery to be abhorrent even if the slaves are those they deem to be racially inferior. All too often we conflate the two.
    I find your lack of faith...disturbing...

    -Darth Vader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    You are missing the point

    Everyone but myself is a hypocrite. Therefore it's up to the reader to either accept the words at face value or reject them.

    Jefferson penned "All men are created equal" to establish an argument against tyranny.

    My point is that those words are either immortal and we should all aspire to understand g them and employing them in our daily lives and incorporating them into the very fabric of our government and or laws, simply because those words are immoral and self-evident true.

    Or we reject those words and apply some other, lesser standard.

    The Rodents reject the ideal.

    My question to them is thus "what is their proposed alternative?"

    You attempted to place some burden in myself, possibly implying I reject the Jeffersonian ideal.

    I do not. All men are supposed to be held equal before the law.

    Period.

    If you do not reject Jefferson ' s ideal, good. The ideal is independent of the flawed man that penned the immortal poetry.

    It's the poetry that matters.

    If any of you reject the poetry, state your ideal.
    The singular most important thing you've forgotten was that slaves were not considered to be "Men" at the time of the nation's creation. It's hard to accept today, but one must remember the times and social values.
    I suspect that Sally Hemmings was not treated as a slave. She enjoyed as much of life that society would allow her in the Americas.
    ........it is not the title, but how you carry it.
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    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjames1_53 View Post
    The singular most important thing you've forgotten was that slaves were not considered to be "Men" at the time of the nation's creation. It's hard to accept today, but one must remember the times and social values.
    I suspect that Sally Hemmings was not treated as a slave. She enjoyed as much of life that society would allow her in the Americas.
    ........it is not the title, but how you carry it.
    The singular most important thing you are ignoring is that Jefferson most certainly believed his animated property to be men.

    There is no doubt of this.

    He argued for mamumission from others, but was weak enough in his own character to keep his chattel until he dird, and then his estate was such a mess he couldn't have many mitten them even if he had tried to do so, which he did not.

    The Rodents claim that Jefferson was hypocritical is undeniably true.

    Their desired conclusions from thst fact are, naturally, unstated yet still false.

    I see the Rodents have not yet introduced an alternative to "all men are created equal" even though their entire political philosophy is thst of the benevolent massa who can't treat his slaves as equal to himself because they would starve if he did.

    Sally Hemmings is historically irrelevant and a distraction to the greatness Jefferson helped create.
    Freedom Requires Obstinance.

    We the People DID NOT vote in a majority Rodent Congress, they stole it via election fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Gleed View Post
    The singular most important thing you are ignoring is that Jefferson most certainly believed his animated property to be men.

    There is no doubt of this.

    He argued for mamumission from others, but was weak enough in his own character to keep his chattel until he dird, and then his estate was such a mess he couldn't have many mitten them even if he had tried to do so, which he did not.

    The Rodents claim that Jefferson was hypocritical is undeniably true.

    Their desired conclusions from thst fact are, naturally, unstated yet still false.

    I see the Rodents have not yet introduced an alternative to "all men are created equal" even though their entire political philosophy is thst of the benevolent massa who can't treat his slaves as equal to himself because they would starve if he did.

    Sally Hemmings is historically irrelevant and a distraction to the greatness Jefferson helped create.
    it takes a consensus. Most folks didn't see the slaves as Men. So much has changed since those days. Today, slavery is beyond intelligent thought. It is barbaric and cruel, yet it still exists in some areas of the globe.
    I disagree with your final statement. She was hardly irrelevant. That conversation has sparked a great deal of discussion which is necessary to ensure it never happens again on US soil. She is part of the narrative. like it or not.
    For waltky: http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
    "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
    - Thucydides

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" B. Franklin
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I was just reading about some college students demanding the removal of a Thomas Jefferson statue from their campus. In the course of the debate, the subject of Jefferson's relationship to slavery came up as it usually does.

    One point in particular was Jefferson's failure to manumit his slaves. The main theory being proposed by some of Jefferson's detractors was that Jefferson was just a big-ass phony who lied about everything.

    Of course, we'll never KNOW what Jefferson's true motivations were. We can only make inferences based on the evidence. But I think the evidence tends to support a different theory than the one being put forth by Jefferson's haters. I think Jefferson was a man who genuinely believed in the ideals he espoused, but who, for reasons of human frailty and imperfection, simply failed to live up to them. I think Jefferson's words and actions indicate a clear and genuine opposition to slavery as a concept and as an institution. However, as Jefferson would say himself, the best way to oppose it in the real world at that time was not entirely obvious.

    I'm not saying there aren't criticisms of Jefferson to be made. Everyone can be fairly criticized for something. Jefferson isn't off limits. Nobody is. I just don't think that particular criticism of Jefferson is entirely fair.

    Note to forum members: This is a tPF thread posted in OSS. Personal commentary, bickering, meta-posting, etc. will not be tolerated. Comment substantively on the thread topic or feel free to start your own thread.
    Perhaps he did free them, but they chose to stay, as happened not infrequently with these poor downtrodden, beaten, starving, extremely oppressed poor, downtrodden black fok.

    For many, if not most, it was a pretty good gig.

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    Beat the $#@! out of Africa, eh?

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