Iran - The Road To War

[Tahuyaman]

The big picture is that if those economies take a hit all economies take a hit. Hence the definition of a "global economy". It's an interdependence... Not a one-way street...

Our economy dominates the world. We don’t depend on them.

[Private Pickle]

Our economy dominates the world. We don’t depend on them.

Hubris.

[Tahuyaman]

Hubris.

Not at all. Like I said, you are missing the big picture. We don't import Oil because we don't have enough of our own. We import it to keep that market moving as it helps create stability in those nations and regions.


The opposite is also true. We do not import oil from certain nations in order to disrupt their political system and damage their economy not ours.

[Private Pickle]

Not at all. Like I said, you are missing the big picture. We don't import Oil because we don't have enough of our own. We import it to keep that market moving as it helps create stability in those nations and regions.


The opposite is also true. We do not import oil from certain nations in order to disrupt their political system and damage their economy not ours.

1. Energy independence will not decrease US involvement in the Middle East.
   1. Interests in the Persian Gulf, including the protection of worldwide energy security upon which the global economy is dependent, will remain a US priority.^[20]
   2. Terrorism will not decline in the Middle East if the US ceases to buy oil, because terrorism is not funded by oil money.^[20]
   3. Although vast oil supplies are found in an unstable region subject to difficult geopolitics,^[21] these geopolitics will continue to be fueled by other large consumers of oil, such as China, whether or not the US achieves energy independence. US energy independence will not cause a US pull-out from the Middle East, it will not decrease terrorism, and it will not foster stability or reform in the region.
2. Renewable energy sources can be extremely inefficient, as in the case of corn-based biofuels, which requires massive government subsidies and also enormous amounts of water and chemicals to grow, and causes significant air pollution when burned.^[20] Other renewables, namely wind and solar power, are expensive and intermittent, and lack the infrastructure and technology needed to properly store the energy they harness from the environment:
   1. Natural gas was not a viable portion of US energy as of 2008, since we may have peaked in domestic reserves: US imports of natural gas from Canada tripled since 1973.^[20]
      1. However, US gross natural gas production set new all-time record highs each year from 2007 through 2013, due in part to new methods to extract Shale gas. Despite record withdrawals, the volume of US proved reserves still in the ground also stands at an all-time high, according to reserve data for the end of 2011. US net imports of natural gas peaked in 2007, then declined rapidly, and in 2013 were 60 percent below 2007.^[22]
   2. In the absence of breeder reactors or fusion reactors, nuclear power plants aren't a solution to energy independence either, since uranium must be imported: currently, 80% of US uranium is imported, mainly from Russia and Canada.^[23]
   3. Although the US enjoys massive coal reserves able to power the country at current rates of energy consumption for 200 years,^[20] the hope that the country could use this resource as a liquid to fuel the transportation sector is unlikely. Although currently the US remains a net coal exporter of lower-quality coal, a large and, as of 2008, increasing portion of coal is being imported due to the cheaper, high-quality, low-sulfur foreign coal needed by power plants coping with air-quality regulations.^[20]
      1. However, from 2007 to 2011, US coal imports fell by 64%, and coal exports rose by 81%. As of 2011, coal exports from the US were eight times the tonnage of imports, and the US was the world's fourth-largest exporter of coal.^[24]
   4. US oil reserves cannot be relied upon: US oil production in 2008 had been steadily declining since 1970.^[20]
      1. From that point, US oil production rose rapidly during 2009–2013; US crude oil production for 2013 was 49% higher than that of 2008.^[25]
   5. Energy-efficient electrical and electronic devices require rare earth elements which mostly come from Inner Mongolia,^[26] and lithium, which mostly comes from the Salar de Uyuni in Bolivia.^[27]

Benefits of oil dependence[edit]

Roger Howard^[28] has argued^[29] in The Wall Street Journal that oil dependence has significant benefits for the US and other oil-importing nations. First, the world's major oil exporters are highly dependent on their oil revenues, and fear rapid drops in the price of oil, such as occurred in late 2008 and in 2014/2015. Second, this fear restrains destructive actions by exporters: Howard cites the example of Russia's 2008 invasion of Georgia. Russia's stock market plunged, and "within a week capital outflow reached a massive $16 billion, suddenly squeezing domestic credit while the ruble collapsed in value." He also gives the example of Libya, where Muammar al-Gaddafi gave up his nuclear weapon program in exchange for the US lifting its economic sanctions, which had prevented Libya from increasing its oil production.
In his 2006 State of the Union Address, George W. Bush used the phrase addicted to oil, a phrase widely discussed in the media.<sup>[30][31][32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...y_independence</sup>

[Tahuyaman]

For decades we've been told our involvement in the Middle East is all about oil. Now that we are becoming more energy independent that narrative is changing.

[MMC]

Iran steps up the War of Words. Continuing to escalate matters. Trump wants Iran to come to the table. Might as well as forget about it and just start preparing to bomb them back into the stone age.


Iran says it will not surrender even if it is bombed

Iran will not surrender to U.S. pressure and will not abandon its goals even if it is bombed, President Hassan Rouhani said on Thursday, stepping up the war of words between the Islamic Republic and the United States.


Earlier in the day, Iran’s top military chief said the standoff between Tehran and Washington was a “clash of wills”, warning that any enemy “adventurism” would meet a crushing response, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.



Iran’s armed forces chief of staff, Major General Mohammad Baqeri, also pointed to an Iranian battle victory in the war with Iraq and said that outcome could be a message that Iran will have a “hard, crushing and obliterating response” for any enemy “adventurism”.....snip~


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1ST13X

[donttread]

He knows the Iranians proxy fired a rocket at the Baghdad Embassy. So he is alright with that.

You mean our embassy? the 3/4 of a billion dollar $#@! you Iraqis embassy? I don't blame us for Iran's transgressions. I blame the UN et al for trying to control who has the best peacemakers on the planet.

[MMC]

You mean our embassy? the 3/4 of a billion dollar $#@! you Iraqis embassy? I don't blame us for Iran's transgressions. I blame the UN et al for trying to control who has the best peacemakers on the planet.

Yes at our Embassy. Maybe we should lob a few at theirs. See how they like it.

[MisterVeritis]

You mean our embassy? the 3/4 of a billion dollar $#@! you Iraqis embassy? I don't blame us for Iran's transgressions. I blame the UN et al for trying to control who has the best peacemakers on the planet.

The Green Zone. I played a role in that.

Is there anything you know or are good at doing?

[Peter1469]

The Green Zone. I played a role in that.

Is there anything you know or are good at doing?

I flew in there a couple of times. Helicopter from Balad.